Democrats Need to Drop the Gun-Control Issue

[Blues Man]

So what?

The problem is if the people who are actual victims of gun crime don't care enough to report it and the cops don't care enough to solve them it is obvious that these people most affected by gun crime care as little about it as the powers that be do.

THAT is the problem not the people who legally own and use guns. And BTW the vast and overwhelming majority of gun owners are law abaiding and are not responsible for the criminals if a ridiculously small percentage of the population.

The vast majority of people flying are not Al Qaeda Terrorists, and here we are, 20 years later, still subjecting airline passengers to intrusive searches.

The rest of us who don't have a gun fetish still have to put up with key-cards, security check points, militarized cops, active shooter drills, etc.

If the rest of us have to put up with a little inconvenience to accommodate your fetish, you can put up with some to continue it.

There is no comparison to airline security and guns.

And like I said I don't have a fetish. I own a few guns. Most of them are personal defense guns I can carry. I own one shot gun and one rifle that I hardly ever use.

And I did put up with a little inconvenience to buy them and to get a permit to carry.

There is no need to make it any more difficult because no criminal would be able to buy a gun from a licensed dealer or qualify for a carry permit.

We have laws in place that we simple do not enforce and that is the problem.

ALL instances of criminal gun possession are federal crimes and yet no federal charges are ever levied in criminal gun cases.

LAw enforcement doesn't investigate crimes where poor people are victims because that's what the government wants.

You want to blame all of society's ills on people that will never commit a crime just because they happen to legally own a gun.

 

[Blues Man]

The government sets the standard on BG checks not the dealer.

That's my whole point. The government sets a standard. Clearly, that standard was ignored with (Insert name of any mass shooter here.)

Frankly, I want a gun dealer to tell a jury why he thought Joker Holmes needed a semi-automatic weapon with a 100 round clip.

(And yes, I use the word clip to piss off the gun fetishists).

No it wasn't.

The guy had to pass a background check and the scope of that BG check is dictated by the government

 

[2aguy]

We aren't the most dangerous country in the industrialized world...that is Germany....they murdered 12 million innocent men, women and children. Our gun murder is confined, largely, to criminals murdering criminals......Germany murdered 12 million innocent people.....

That number dwarfs all of our gun crime ........

Uh, guy, it was a WORLD WAR. 70 million people died on all sides.

I'm not worried about a war that happened 80 years ago, 20 years before I was even born.

I worry about some maniac shooting up my workplace because an idiot like you made it easy for him to get a gun.

No...dipshit.....the 12 million were not casualties of war or collateral damage from the war....they were European citizens...innocent men, women and children collected by the socialists and then murdered........

The 12 million innocent men, women and children to this day outnumber the number of criminals who are murdered by other criminals here in the U.S......we can't even get close to that number in the 87 years since the war began.....they murdered 12 million in 15 years.......our gun murder of criminals murdering other criminals is 890,000 when you simply multiply 10,235, the number murdered with guns in 2019, by 87....

See the difference in numbers?

And again...Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times, on average, each year, to stop brutal rapes, robberies, knifings, beatings and murder.....

See the difference in numbers even then.....87 years of gun murder doesn't even come close to one year of legal self defense with a gun.

 

[2aguy]

Not to mention un-Constitutional, particularly with regard to handguns.

Being realistic, there won’t be any ‘bans’ or limits on new guns, that ship has long sailed – there’s no political will in Washington to do so and this Supreme Court would never allow such legislation to stand.

Nor should there be any new ‘bans’ or limits as they’d have no effect on gun crime and violence, given the fact that there are enough AR 15s in the country for every man, woman, and child in the state of New York.

Last, more government and more laws simply isn’t the answer – Democrats are correct to abandon those efforts.

YOu don't give up on trying to solve a problem because it's too hard.

So, yes, we aren't going to have a gun ban. We can make it a lot harder to get new guns out there, and we can hold the gun industry responsible.

The first thing I would do is repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA). One thing that we find is that when you do a trace on illicit guns, they come from a fraction of gun dealers who have decided to be irresponsible.

For instance, the City of Chicago traced 850 illicit guns back to a single store in Indiana, where the gun selling rules are a lot more lax.

'Eye-popping numbers': Chicago sues Indiana gun store tied to 850 firearms recovered from crime scenes

The city of Chicago is suing an Indiana gun store it says is one of the main sources of illicit firearms for the criminal market.

www.usatoday.com

Wrong...that store in Indiana is following every single law on the books...the criminals simply use straw buyers.....buyers with clean criminal histories, to buy their illegal guns....usually baby mommas of the criminals, or their grandmothers or mothers, often under the threat of violence...

You irrational focus on law abiding gun overs versus actually locking up the violent gun criminals doing the actual crime is insane........you want to punish gun makers, who are at least 3 removes from the actual criminals using the guns illegally....and then you want to let violent, repeat gun offenders out of prison cause....to many people in jail...

You are an idiot.

 

[2aguy]

When you continue to obssess on dick multiple times in every thread on guns it isn't a joke it's a pathology

Nope, it's a joke, which is not funny if you are "Compensating".

View attachment 498223

600 million guns in private hands....over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.......

1.1 million Americans use their legal guns to stop brutal rapes, robberies, knifings, beatings and murder......

The individuals committing almost all of the gun crime are not the law abiding gun owners but a tiny group of criminals who murder other criminals in the course of living as criminals........

So no...we don't fetishize guns.....idiots like you vote for democrats...the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians keep releasing that tiny population of actual violent gun criminals, over and over again.........90% of murderers have long histories of crime and violence and at the time of the murder should have been in jail or prison..but they were released by people like you, over and over again......

Look at any shooting in a democrat party controlled city...and you will find a criminal, with a long history of crime....not a normal, law abiding citizen.......who was either on bond at the time, out of prison on parole, or had one or more warrants for their arrest....

you hate gun owners, and don't care about actual gun criminals...

 

[hadit]

Let's be realistic here. With the number of guns currently in circulation, a ban would only leave the law abiding unarmed. You could MAYBE have something different with a relative handful of guns out there, but not now. It's wishful thinking, and you would only make criminals out of a lot of otherwise completely law abiding citizens.

Okay, let's be realistic.

A gun ban in and of itself would probably be impractical, but putting limits on NEW guns would keep them out of the wrong hands.

The thing is, every time there is a mass shooting, it's not done with the gun that has been sitting in someone's closet since the 1990's. It's done with the gun that someone just bought, who slipped by a background check because the gun industry has so watered down that process it's impossible to catch them before they go on a rampage.

The NRA and gun industry WANT rampages. They sell more guns.

I've told you before that you suck at reading minds. Get that helmet adjusted or add some foil to the left frontal lobe because it's just not picking up the signals very well. One could as easily accuse the gun grabbers of wanting the same thing because they get to run around and yell about grabbing guns, yet do nothing to actually prevent the violence in the first place. Take away the media sensationalism and they would have nothing to talk about and the issue would vanish.

 

[Batcat]

I have no problem with gun owners being held financially and criminally liable. . . however, if you make insurance mandatory?

Only the rich and the elites will be able to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.

This is akin to the poll tax that we once had that excluded folks from voting.

It is also why our elections tilt toward the rich and the powerful. . . money is speech in this nation.

Once you require folks to need money to exercise their rights? You start to go down are very dangerous path.

The corporations are already very busy at subverting the public government and replacing it with a corporatacracy controlled by technology. . . you want to help strip the poor even more of their natural rights?

Which billionaire corporatist do you work for?

Yeah, that's why I said "if not."
Don't force on people, but do promote it.

The insurance doesn't have to be expensive and existing insurance companies can implement a special or additional or whatever gun insurance fee right now.

Considering how many legal gun owners never misuse their weapons the insurance would likely be dirt cheap.

People with concealed weapons permits for example have a better record with their firearms than cops.

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Crime Statistics (updated)

Check out the concealed carry permit holders crime statistics? We can tell you how many CCW permit holders have committed crimes in seven states.

www.gunstocarry.com

Permitted Gun Owners Are More Law Abiding Than Police

Comparison of crime data over two states and the general public versus police officers shows that CCW are most law-abiding.

gunstoday.com

 

[Batcat]

I recently changed my stance on gun-control. I think it's a dead-end and only harms the Democratic Party.

Guns and the violence that accompanies it are too embedded in American culture, they enshrined it in their Constitution for Christ's sake.

Moreover, Americans are too fearful to ever put down their guns, so the Democrats need to wise up and just drop the issue.

At the very least change their stance and go full-bore in the opposite direction, I say flood the country w/guns and ammunition, let them buy weapons till their wallets burst.

However, at the same time, they need to promote gun safety and consequences for the lack thereof. Every gun owner should be insured, if not, they should be held financially and criminally liable if/when necessary.

Also, keep better track of them, that goes w/the previous sentence.

Let people get and keep their guns to theirheartscontent, but let's all be safe about it.

Guns should be handled like cars. Maintain a registry, pass a basic gun safety and knowledge test, show you can hit something, and be licensed and insured.

With the exception of insurance you have basically described what is required to get a concealed weapons permit in Florida.

Of course a registry of carry permit holders is maintained but not a registry of their firearms. Florida has no interest in banning and confiscating firearms so a registry is not only useless but illegal.

The 2020 Florida Statutes​

790.335 Prohibition of registration of firearms; electronic records.—
(1) LEGISLATIVE FINDINGS AND INTENT.—
(a) The Legislature finds and declares that:
1. The right of individuals to keep and bear arms is guaranteed under both the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and s. 8, Art. I of the State Constitution.
2. A list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a law enforcement tool and can become an instrument for profiling, harassing, or abusing law-abiding citizens based on their choice to own a firearm and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution. Further, such a list, record, or registry has the potential to fall into the wrong hands and become a shopping list for thieves.
3. A list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a tool for fighting terrorism, but rather is an instrument that can be used as a means to profile innocent citizens and to harass and abuse American citizens based solely on their choice to own firearms and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution.
4. Law-abiding firearm owners whose names have been illegally recorded in a list, record, or registry are entitled to redress.
(b) The Legislature intends through the provisions of this section to:
1. Protect the right of individuals to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under both the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and s. 8, Art. I of the State Constitution.
2. Protect the privacy rights of law-abiding firearm owners.
(2) PROHIBITIONS.—No state governmental agency or local government, special district, or other political subdivision or official, agent, or employee of such state or other governmental entity or any other person, public or private, shall knowingly and willfully keep or cause to be kept any list, record, or registry of privately owned firearms or any list, record, or registry of the owners of those firearms.
(3) EXCEPTIONS.—The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
(a) Records of firearms that have been used in committing any crime.
(b) Records relating to any person who has been convicted of a crime.
(c) Records of firearms that have been reported stolen that are retained for a period not in excess of 10 days after such firearms are recovered. Official documentation recording the theft of a recovered weapon may be maintained no longer than the balance of the year entered, plus 2 years.
(d) Firearm records that must be retained by firearm dealers under federal law, including copies of such records transmitted to law enforcement agencies. However, no state governmental agency or local government, special district, or other political subdivision or official, agent, or employee of such state or other governmental entity or any other person, private or public, shall accumulate, compile, computerize, or otherwise collect or convert such written records into any form of list, registry, or database for any purpose.
(e)1. Records kept pursuant to the recordkeeping provisions of s. 790.065; however, nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize the public release or inspection of records that are made confidential and exempt from the provisions of s. 119.07(1) by s. 790.065(4)(a).
2. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to allow the maintaining of records containing the names of purchasers or transferees who receive unique approval numbers or the maintaining of records of firearm transactions.

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

 

[MisterBeale]

I have no problem with gun owners being held financially and criminally liable. . . however, if you make insurance mandatory?

Only the rich and the elites will be able to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.

This is akin to the poll tax that we once had that excluded folks from voting.

It is also why our elections tilt toward the rich and the powerful. . . money is speech in this nation.

Once you require folks to need money to exercise their rights? You start to go down are very dangerous path.

The corporations are already very busy at subverting the public government and replacing it with a corporatacracy controlled by technology. . . you want to help strip the poor even more of their natural rights?

Which billionaire corporatist do you work for?

Yeah, that's why I said "if not."
Don't force on people, but do promote it.

The insurance doesn't have to be expensive and existing insurance companies can implement a special or additional or whatever gun insurance fee right now.

Considering how many legal gun owners never misuse their weapons the insurance would likely be dirt cheap.

People with concealed weapons permits for example have a better record with their firearms than cops.

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Crime Statistics (updated)

Check out the concealed carry permit holders crime statistics? We can tell you how many CCW permit holders have committed crimes in seven states.

www.gunstocarry.com

Permitted Gun Owners Are More Law Abiding Than Police

Comparison of crime data over two states and the general public versus police officers shows that CCW are most law-abiding.

gunstoday.com

I agree.

OTH? If it is government mandated?

No, it won't be.

Once government got into the business of Higher Ed. funding, prices went through the roof.

Same with health insurance.

. . . and car insurance.

. . . if it is mandated by government, it WILL be expansive.

 

[Batcat]

I have no problem with gun owners being held financially and criminally liable. . . however, if you make insurance mandatory?

Only the rich and the elites will be able to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.

This is akin to the poll tax that we once had that excluded folks from voting.

It is also why our elections tilt toward the rich and the powerful. . . money is speech in this nation.

Once you require folks to need money to exercise their rights? You start to go down are very dangerous path.

The corporations are already very busy at subverting the public government and replacing it with a corporatacracy controlled by technology. . . you want to help strip the poor even more of their natural rights?

Which billionaire corporatist do you work for?

Yeah, that's why I said "if not."
Don't force on people, but do promote it.

The insurance doesn't have to be expensive and existing insurance companies can implement a special or additional or whatever gun insurance fee right now.

Considering how many legal gun owners never misuse their weapons the insurance would likely be dirt cheap.

People with concealed weapons permits for example have a better record with their firearms than cops.

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Crime Statistics (updated)

Check out the concealed carry permit holders crime statistics? We can tell you how many CCW permit holders have committed crimes in seven states.

www.gunstocarry.com

Permitted Gun Owners Are More Law Abiding Than Police

Comparison of crime data over two states and the general public versus police officers shows that CCW are most law-abiding.

gunstoday.com

I agree.

OTH? If it is government mandated?

No, it won't be.

Once government got into the business of Higher Ed. funding, prices went through the roof.

Same with health insurance.

. . . and car insurance.

. . . if it is mandated by government, it WILL be expansive.

Fair point.

 

[Oldestyle]

I recently changed my stance on gun-control. I think it's a dead-end and only harms the Democratic Party.

Guns and the violence that accompanies it are too embedded in American culture, they enshrined it in their Constitution for Christ's sake.

Moreover, Americans are too fearful to ever put down their guns, so the Democrats need to wise up and just drop the issue.

At the very least change their stance and go full-bore in the opposite direction, I say flood the country w/guns and ammunition, let them buy weapons till their wallets burst.

However, at the same time, they need to promote gun safety and consequences for the lack thereof. Every gun owner should be insured, if not, they should be held financially and criminally liable if/when necessary.

Also, keep better track of them, that goes w/the previous sentence.

Let people get and keep their guns to theirheartscontent, but let's all be safe about it.

If the liberal wing of the Democratic Party gets it's way and "defunds" the Police...then the American people are smart enough to recognize that THEY and they alone are going to be the ones to protect themselves and their loved ones because the Police aren't coming!

 

[JoeB131]

There is no comparison to airline security and guns.

And like I said I don't have a fetish. I own a few guns. Most of them are personal defense guns I can carry. I own one shot gun and one rifle that I hardly ever use.

And I did put up with a little inconvenience to buy them and to get a permit to carry.

There is no need to make it any more difficult because no criminal would be able to buy a gun from a licensed dealer or qualify for a carry permit.

Except they do all the time, that's the problem. Every time we have a mass shooting, we find out the shooter had a criminal record or a history of mental illness and was still able to guy a gun.

Case in point, the guy who shot up the Fed Ex Facility and killed a bunch of Sihks. His own mother turned him in, because she thought he was dangerous. The cops took his gun. He was able to walk right into a gun store and buy more guns.

600 million guns in private hands....over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.......

More like 300 million.

We also have

39,000 gun deaths
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
213 BILLION in economic losses due to guns.

We have to rearrange our entire society around the "Some nut might come in and start shooting the place up!" because you fetishists don't want to take an extra 10 minutes to make sure that someone who shouldn't have a gun can't get one.

One could as easily accuse the gun grabbers of wanting the same thing because they get to run around and yell about grabbing guns, yet do nothing to actually prevent the violence in the first place. Take away the media sensationalism and they would have nothing to talk about and the issue would vanish.

Uh, guy, what "media sensationalism". We have 39,000 gun deaths a year. 106 people die every day from gun violence, and the vast majority of them don't make the news. Not unless it's something really spectacular like Sandy Hook.

The thing is, when we have a Sandy Hook, everyone gets upset, for about a day. The Gun Fetishists keep on this every day, which is why we don't get change even when babies are murdered.

 

[Blues Man]

There is no comparison to airline security and guns.

And like I said I don't have a fetish. I own a few guns. Most of them are personal defense guns I can carry. I own one shot gun and one rifle that I hardly ever use.

And I did put up with a little inconvenience to buy them and to get a permit to carry.

There is no need to make it any more difficult because no criminal would be able to buy a gun from a licensed dealer or qualify for a carry permit.

Except they do all the time, that's the problem. Every time we have a mass shooting, we find out the shooter had a criminal record or a history of mental illness and was still able to guy a gun.

Case in point, the guy who shot up the Fed Ex Facility and killed a bunch of Sihks. His own mother turned him in, because she thought he was dangerous. The cops took his gun. He was able to walk right into a gun store and buy more guns.

600 million guns in private hands....over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.......

More like 300 million.

We also have

39,000 gun deaths
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
213 BILLION in economic losses due to guns.

We have to rearrange our entire society around the "Some nut might come in and start shooting the place up!" because you fetishists don't want to take an extra 10 minutes to make sure that someone who shouldn't have a gun can't get one.

One could as easily accuse the gun grabbers of wanting the same thing because they get to run around and yell about grabbing guns, yet do nothing to actually prevent the violence in the first place. Take away the media sensationalism and they would have nothing to talk about and the issue would vanish.

Uh, guy, what "media sensationalism". We have 39,000 gun deaths a year. 106 people die every day from gun violence, and the vast majority of them don't make the news. Not unless it's something really spectacular like Sandy Hook.

The thing is, when we have a Sandy Hook, everyone gets upset, for about a day. The Gun Fetishists keep on this every day, which is why we don't get change even when babies are murdered.

Suicide isn't gun violence.
Suicide is not a crime
Suicide is a choice.

Mass shootings barely account for 1% of all murders.

So if you're actually going to address the real problems I'm happy to debate them but that fact that you seem to want to focus on things that aren't really going to make a difference in actual crime and murder rates you are just wasting my time

 

[JoeB131]

Suicide isn't gun violence.
Suicide is not a crime
Suicide is a choice.

Mass shootings barely account for 1% of all murders.

So if you're actually going to address the real problems I'm happy to debate them but that fact that you seem to want to focus on things that aren't really going to make a difference in actual crime and murder rates you are just wasting my time

Hey, go talk to someone who lost a family member to suicide about how it's no big deal.

These are real problems, that the Gun Industry is benefiting from.

But, hey, you might have to wait a couple days or undergo some extra scrutiny before you can fulfill your fetish.. that's the important thing.

 

[Cellblock2429]

I recently changed my stance on gun-control. I think it's a dead-end and only harms the Democratic Party.

Guns and the violence that accompanies it are too embedded in American culture, they enshrined it in their Constitution for Christ's sake.

Moreover, Americans are too fearful to ever put down their guns, so the Democrats need to wise up and just drop the issue.

At the very least change their stance and go full-bore in the opposite direction, I say flood the country w/guns and ammunition, let them buy weapons till their wallets burst.

However, at the same time, they need to promote gun safety and consequences for the lack thereof. Every gun owner should be insured, if not, they should be held financially and criminally liable if/when necessary.

Also, keep better track of them, that goes w/the previous sentence.

Let people get and keep their guns to theirheartscontent, but let's all be safe about it.

/———/ WOWZA you actually made sense. Are you feeling OK this morning?

 

[Blues Man]

Suicide isn't gun violence.
Suicide is not a crime
Suicide is a choice.

Mass shootings barely account for 1% of all murders.

So if you're actually going to address the real problems I'm happy to debate them but that fact that you seem to want to focus on things that aren't really going to make a difference in actual crime and murder rates you are just wasting my time

Hey, go talk to someone who lost a family member to suicide about how it's no big deal.

These are real problems, that the Gun Industry is benefiting from.

But, hey, you might have to wait a couple days or undergo some extra scrutiny before you can fulfill your fetish.. that's the important thing.

I never said it's no big deal it just isn't a crime or violence issue. And it certainly isn't a gun issue.

And the gun industry does not benefit from suicides.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Uh, if that were the case, then why do we have 39,000 gun deaths a year, and very few of them are "Self-Defense"?

Because you're a lying POS. More than half of those are suicides, which do not count. Secondly, most self-defense incidents do not require a person to fire the weapon, but only display it to stop the aggressor from attacking.

Now, go fuck yourself.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

There is no issue. It's like immigration and abortion, everyone knows nothing is going to be done of any real difference.

It's a wedge issue used by the right to divide the American people and deflect from real issues Republicans have no answer for, like abortion.

We have an answer for abortion....you can't kill your babies........you guys don't like that because you want to be able to have sex with all the women you want and you don't want to have to pay for the babies you create....that is why democrat party males support abortion so strongly...especially when it comes to raping interns...

In order for conservatives to keep the wedge issue of ‘gun control’ alive, they contrive and propagate lies about ‘confiscation’ and other like nonsense – such is the right’s dishonesty and contempt for the truth.

Then, repeal the Hughes Amenment.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

We have 39,000 gun deaths a year.

More than half are suicided and the rest are the result of the street wars in cities like Chicago.

You are full of nothing but SHIT!!!

 

[hadit]

There is no comparison to airline security and guns.

And like I said I don't have a fetish. I own a few guns. Most of them are personal defense guns I can carry. I own one shot gun and one rifle that I hardly ever use.

And I did put up with a little inconvenience to buy them and to get a permit to carry.

There is no need to make it any more difficult because no criminal would be able to buy a gun from a licensed dealer or qualify for a carry permit.

Except they do all the time, that's the problem. Every time we have a mass shooting, we find out the shooter had a criminal record or a history of mental illness and was still able to guy a gun.

Case in point, the guy who shot up the Fed Ex Facility and killed a bunch of Sihks. His own mother turned him in, because she thought he was dangerous. The cops took his gun. He was able to walk right into a gun store and buy more guns.

600 million guns in private hands....over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.......

More like 300 million.

We also have

39,000 gun deaths
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
213 BILLION in economic losses due to guns.

We have to rearrange our entire society around the "Some nut might come in and start shooting the place up!" because you fetishists don't want to take an extra 10 minutes to make sure that someone who shouldn't have a gun can't get one.

One could as easily accuse the gun grabbers of wanting the same thing because they get to run around and yell about grabbing guns, yet do nothing to actually prevent the violence in the first place. Take away the media sensationalism and they would have nothing to talk about and the issue would vanish.

Uh, guy, what "media sensationalism". We have 39,000 gun deaths a year. 106 people die every day from gun violence, and the vast majority of them don't make the news. Not unless it's something really spectacular like Sandy Hook.

The thing is, when we have a Sandy Hook, everyone gets upset, for about a day. The Gun Fetishists keep on this every day, which is why we don't get change even when babies are murdered.

You pretend the media doesn't sensationalize and politicize gun violence. Cute, but it doesn't address what I said about failing to do anything to prevent violence in the first place.

Hmmm, come to think of it, maybe it would be a good thing to make a bigger deal out of criminals shooting each other. You know, highlight how most gun murders are NOT gun owners going nuts and shooting their neighbors. Might get some attention in the right places. Or do we just want to keep it on the surface so we can pretend it's the wild wild west without delving into who is actually killing whom?