Democratic Socialism/Communism is the only solution to advanced automation & artificial intelligence.

[Man With A Plan]

You're going to have a higher standard of living. You're going to own so much stuff, due to how cheap mass production is going to become, that you won't know what to do with all of it. Food, clothing, devices, gadgets, "toys", healthcare, public transit, that takes you everywhere, quickly, plus your personal vehicle. etc. The future is one of EXTREME ABUNDANCE. Robots work 24/7, for nothing.

Ah yes...the oft promised "workers paradise" that proponents of Communism have promised since Marx...a promise that has never been realized! The thing that Communism never takes into account is human nature which is why it will always fail. Older people know this...younger people have been misled into thinking that their lives will be better with government control of their lives!

 

[Cellblock2429]

All of that technology was funded and even developed in government projects and labs, by government-paid scientists. Facts don't care about your feelings.

/—-—/Thank you for missing my point 100%. You never fail to disappoint. Now tell me what government agency saw a need for a smartphone and pushed for its development.
I'll wait while you gather your notes.

 

[Cellblock2429]

You claim... I'm in denial of nothing. Tech advances. BFD. It always has. And people have leveraged these advances to make money since forever. That isn't going to change. Neither is human nature. Only the laziest, least ambitious, and weakest will ever settle for being everyone's equal when it comes to wealth, and standard of living. How does your commie utopia plan on dealing with human ambition?

/-----/ "How does your commie utopia plan on dealing with human ambition?"
Here's how:

 

[TruthNotBS]

/-----/ "How does your commie utopia plan on dealing with human ambition?"
Here's how:
View attachment 975680

Ambition doesn't have to pursue money or profits, much less exploit people as capitalists do.

 

[TruthNotBS]

/—-—/Thank you for missing my point 100%. You never fail to disappoint. Now tell me what government agency saw a need for a smartphone and pushed for its development.
I'll wait while you gather your notes.

The technology that allowed smartphones to exist was funded and developed by government-funded projects and research.

 

[Dragonlady]

It's obvious that the only true solution to the inevitable replacement of human wage-labor by advanced automation and artificial intelligence, is a marketless, non-profit, publicly owned, more democratic, centrally planned system of mass production, a.k.a. socialism. The billionaires see the writing on the wall:

​

No wage labor (or not enough of it) = No Paying Consumers (or not enough customers) = No Market (or not a large enough market worth investing in) = No Profits (not enough ROI) = No Capitalism (No Capitalists Making A Profit) = Socialism (non-profit, marketless production that doesn't rely on wages being paid to a labor force, that purchases products and services in a market).

Winit X Quicktron | World's largest Automated Bin-to-person Warehouse

Pizza-making robot makes its debut in Paris

Autonomous pizza delivery robot hits the road

Inside Amazon’s robot revolution​

When production is fully or mostly automated, there's no more need for wage-labor or markets. Socialism is the natural, inevitable successor of capitalism, just as capitalism was the successor of feudalism.

Americans due to decades of Cold War anti-socialist, capitalist propaganda, and brainwashing, are unable to accept this self-evident fact. It's mostly Americans over 50 years old, who have trouble coming to terms with this, not the younger generation. The Millenials are much more open to socialism and the Zoomers are the most socialist generation in American history.

The transition to a non-profit system of production is going to be much smoother in the near future, as boomers retire and the younger generation takes the helm.

AI is all PRIVATELY owned. The government neither owns nor controls AI. It's not even regulated.

 

[sparky]

AI is at the moment taking many jobs and is rapidly advancing, you choose to ignore that?

quantify , not ignore

you need to separate hype from reality

~S~

 

[Cellblock2429]

The technology that allowed smartphones to exist was funded and developed by government-funded projects and research.

/-----/ Thank you for missing my point 100% again.
Let me dumb it down. The government builds a road. A private citizen buys land next to the road and builds a storefront. Then, he opens a bakery. Who gets credit for the bakery? Not the government.
So, once again, answer my question. Now tell me what government agency saw a need for a smartphone and pushed for its development.

 

[Oddball]

I'm not debating him, I'm debating you. Why can't you point out how he would "slice me up"? The only people who revere Friedman are right-wing extremists on the fringe of economics. All of his ideas about how the "free market" supposedly takes care of everything have been disproven, time and time again. Laissez-faire, unregulated capitalism is disastrous.

Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, Vladimir Lenin, John Maynard Keynes, Joseph Stiglitz, Paul Krugman, Robert Skidelsky, Richard Wolff, Ha Joon Chang, eat Milton Friedman and all of the other Austrian school economists for breakfast. Peter Jay, who wasn't a full-time, well published economist, and was mostly a British diplomat, beat the crap out of Friedman:

​

All of that said. I repeat I'm not here debating Friedman, I'm debating YOU. So present me with some of his talking points and I will go to work and educate you on true economics. DEFEND the position that Friedman asserts, here in this forum-thread, and I will debunk it. It's that simple. You don't do that because you're lazy and stupid.



This was your response to what I said about Laissez-faire economics being disastrous for countries that tried it.

Latin America - The "Chicago Boys" in Chile​

Case: Chile under Pinochet (1973-1990)

• Implementation: Following the military coup in 1973, Chile adopted a series of radical free-market policies under the guidance of a group of economists known as the "Chicago Boys," who were heavily influenced by Milton Friedman.
• Policies: These included widespread privatization, deregulation, and drastic cuts to public spending.
• Consequences:
  
  • Economic Inequality: The gap between the rich and poor widened dramatically. While some sectors of the economy grew, the benefits were concentrated among the wealthy elite, leaving large portions of the population in poverty.
  • Social Unrest: The reduction in public services and social safety nets led to widespread social discontent and protests.
  • Economic Volatility: The laissez-faire policies contributed to significant economic instability, with frequent recessions and financial crises.

Russia - Post-Soviet Shock Therapy​

Case: Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union (1990s)

• Implementation: Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia implemented "shock therapy" economic reforms. These were influenced by free-market principles, including rapid privatization, deregulation, and austerity measures.
• Consequences:
  
  • Economic Collapse: The sudden shift to a market economy led to a severe economic depression, with GDP falling by around 40% from 1990 to 1995.
  • Poverty and Inequality: A large portion of the population was plunged into poverty, and income inequality soared as a small group of oligarchs gained control over the country's resources.
  • Social Crisis: The abrupt removal of state controls and support systems resulted in widespread unemployment, a collapse in public health, and a sharp decline in life expectancy.
• Putin's more socialist, government-regulated economics, saved Russia.

United States - Deregulation and the Financial Crisis​

Case: The Financial Crisis of 2007-2008

• Implementation: In the years leading up to the crisis, there was significant deregulation of the financial industry. Key policies included the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1999 and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, which deregulated derivatives trading.
• Consequences:
  
  • Housing Bubble: The lack of regulation allowed risky mortgage lending practices to proliferate, leading to a housing bubble.
  • Financial Collapse: When the bubble burst, it triggered a global financial crisis, leading to massive bailouts for banks and financial institutions while millions of Americans lost their homes and jobs.
  • Economic Inequality: The recovery from the crisis was slow and uneven, with the wealthy recovering quickly while the middle and lower classes continued to suffer from high unemployment and stagnant wages.

China - Contrasting Success of Central Planning​

Case: China's Economic Growth Post-1978

• Implementation: While China introduced market reforms after 1978, it maintained significant state control over key industries and employed strategic central planning.
• Contrasts with Friedman's Views: Milton Friedman criticized China's approach, arguing for more extensive privatization and deregulation.
• Outcomes:
  
  • Rapid Growth: China's blend of state control and market reforms led to unprecedented economic growth, lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty.
  • Resilience: The government’s ability to intervene in the economy allowed it to effectively manage economic crises and ensure stable, long-term growth.
  • Infrastructure Development: Central planning facilitated massive investments in infrastructure, education, and technology, contributing to China's rise as a global economic power.

From a Keynesian perspective, these examples highlight the pitfalls of unregulated free-market policies and the benefits of strategic government intervention. The experiences of Latin America and Russia show how rapid deregulation and privatization practically always, lead to economic instability, increased inequality, and social unrest.

In contrast, China’s more measured approach, combining market reforms with central planning, demonstrates the best way to manage a market-based economy. Austrian school economics is crap, it doesn't work (even without sanctions).

​

I have the facts that support my position, that's all I and you need, not a resume or a bio. As far as socialism "failing", that's ridiculous. You don't know what socialism is and you don't want to know because you're not really interested in the truth. You're just here spewing your ignorance.

Socialism is successful practically everywhere it's tried, without being economically embargoed or invaded, bombed..etc. When socialism is embargoed, invaded, and bombed, it does much better than capitalism would under the same circumstances. Look at the Soviet Union, as proof. It was invaded by the US, UK, France in 1918 and 11 other countries, yet the socialists won, forcing those troops out of Soviet territory.

In 1941, after almost a decade of amazing economic success, despite the Western world's "Great Depression", it was invaded by four million Nazi Germans. Soviet Russia lost 14% of its population and much of its infrastructure. The Soviets lost nine million soldiers and 19 million Soviet civilians. In contract, the US lost 0.03% of its population, only 450 thousand of its citizens. The US came out of WW2 unscathed, thanks to being surrounded by two vast oceans or giant walls of water.

The Soviets had no Marshal Plan to help them rebuild their country after WW2 as Western Europe and Japan had (These other nations received plenty of help from Uncle Sam), yet despite it having to pick itself up by its own bootstraps, it became a nuclear superpower within only 12 years of suffering the devastation of WW2. The Soviet Union (USSR) was the world's second largest economy by nominal and purchasing power parity values throughout the Cold War.

I can go on and on, giving examples of how socialism is the most effective economic system for industrializing a nation and rapidly growing its economy i.e. production.

As far as socialism in the nations that don't explicitly identify themselves as having a socialist economy and political system, due to the fear of being targeted for abuse by the 800-pound capitalist gorilla empire (USA), socialism has proven itself superior to capitalism. It's what allows these countries to provide a high standard of living to their citizens.

Socialism is what allows capitalism to function properly, because without it capitalism collapses. Every 7 to 12 years the United States has to use public funds to bail out capitalism from catastrophic failure, which would plunge the country into chaos and civil war.


Artificial Intelligence isn't "fake intelligence", it's simply man-made, or synthetic-cybernetic-based, rather than biological. That doesn't make it "not really intelligent" or unable to replace human wage-labor. You and your capitalist buddies are being pedantic and weird, claiming AI won't replace waged-work, because it's "fake intelligence". That's just a silly argument.

You're confused as to where money comes from. It doesn't come from capitalists or markets, it comes from a government authority that prints the money and demands taxes under threat of criminal prosecution or asset forfeiture. If a government demands that you pay it property taxes, you're going to start producing, in order to keep your house and other properties. Money is created and backed by the government.

Everything that exists in our economy is the result of human labor, not some magical capitalist invisible hand unicorn. Human labor and its well-earned wages are the foundation of our capitalist, profit-driven economy. Capitalists are mainly concerned with profits, hence they hate spending capital on R&D, they'll rather have the government pay for it. Public funds should be used to serve the public good, not vested interests at the expense of the public. The public should own much of the technology that is now in the hands of capitalists.


If you insult me I insult you. I'm getting insults hurled at me constantly from these stupid, brainwashed geriatric MAGA Hats, so they're fair game. Me insulting you or whoever else insults me, says nothing about the validity or viability of socialism. You're now falling into a logical fallacy. I can be rude and right, and you can be civil, soft-spoken, and wrong. I never claim that my debate opponent is wrong because he or she is rude.

You capitalists rely on the labor of others to live, and without that working class, you wouldn't have a customer base. You're a parasite in society and an unnecessary middleman, who corrupts politicians and exploits human beings for a profit. You undermine human progress and that's why in the end, the working class is going to win. Advanced automation and AI are the end of capitalism.

​

I already explained in my first post, my position on UBI/UI, so why are you claiming that I am for this? UBI is nothing more than a ploy by capitalists to artificially generate a customer base, once wages are eliminated by automation and AI. Think. Without wages, the capitalists lose everything. They're no longer in power, without wages. Wages are the foundation of capitalism.

tl;dr

 

[Oddball]

The whole world is controlled by capitalists, so obviously, how do you expect a small country that outwardly identifies as socialist and is sanctioned by the US, to develop normally? You don't have much of an argument against socialism, when the world's 800-pound, capitalist gorilla empire is imposing an economic embargo on socialism and constantly threatening it with war.

If you barbaric hooligans knew or cared about capital formation, you wouldn't need them.

But stealing is all you know, so you whine when the would-be victims tell you to fuck off.

 

[Vastator]

Ambition doesn't have to pursue money or profits, much less exploit people as capitalists do.

Yet it does. It always has. Always will.

 

[Oddball]

The technology that allowed smartphones to exist was funded and developed by government-funded projects and research.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Ah yes...the oft promised "workers paradise" that proponents of Communism have promised since Marx...a promise that has never been realized! The thing that Communism never takes into account is human nature which is why it will always fail. Older people know this...younger people have been misled into thinking that their lives will be better with government control of their lives!

I've already responded to your stupid talking points on this thread in several posts, but for the sake of others, I will respond to your disingenuous claptrap.

Ah yes...the oft promised "workers paradise" that proponents of Communism have promised since Marx...a promise that has never been realized!

Communists have never promised paradise, just something much better. Furthermore, with the advent of more advanced technology in the area of production and logistics, modern communism becomes even more viable, to the point of becoming a necessity as technology replaces wage-labor. Without wages, capitalism collapses, requiring socialism and then later communism to replace it. Socialism and later communism is the natural, inevitable successor of capitalism.

More, an economic, sociopolitical system isn't fully realized, until it is, and when it is, who will use such stupid objections as yours for its validity? Did the mercantile class of Europe dominate the royal, feudal aristocracy overnight? Did it take one swoop of the sword, for the anti-monarchist, republicans, who were funded by the merchant class, to replace the kings and queens of Europe?

Did the merchants become the dominant, ruling class of Europe in one century, in one single try, one war, one event? No. It took centuries of development, effort, bloodshed, growth..etc.
The Industrial Revolution allowed for the merchants to finally replace the royal and feudal aristocracy of Europe, as the dominant ruling class. It took a new technology and revolution in production for that to happen and today the same is true.

The problem is that you're a shithead, so you think communism has to replace capitalism within the time-frame that you've determined. But reality doesn't work that way, despite your disingenuous, bullshit demands. Advanced 21st century automation and artificial intelligence is to communism what the industrial revolution was for capitalism. Communism is the natural, inevitable successor of capitalism, just as capitalism was the system that replaced feudalism.

The thing that Communism never takes into account is human nature

Oh no, not the stupid capitalist "human nature" argument. When will you brain-dead capitalist drones realize how dumb that argument is? Human beings were communists for tens of thousands of years.

Communism is more ingrained in our human nature than capitalism, a system of production that is only 220 years old, at best. We were tribal communists, hunter-gatherers, for at least 100 thousand years. Here are other traits of our human nature, that you capitalist bootlickers ignore:

​

1. Cooperation: Human societies have historically thrived on cooperation. Early tribal communities worked together for hunting, gathering, and protection. This collective effort ensured survival and prosperity, highlighting the importance of working together rather than competing against one another.
2. Solidarity: Human beings have a natural inclination towards forming bonds and supporting each other. In tribal and communal settings, solidarity was crucial for maintaining social harmony and addressing collective needs. This contrasts with capitalism's emphasis on individualism and competition.
3. Empathy: Empathy drives humans to care for others and act in ways that benefit the community. In capitalist systems, the focus on profit often undermines empathetic actions, while in communal systems, empathy is a driving force for ensuring everyone's well-being.
4. Altruism: Throughout history, acts of altruism have been fundamental in building and sustaining communities. People often help others without expecting anything in return, a trait that is more compatible with communal living than with capitalist ideologies that prioritize self-interest.
5. Mutual Aid: Tribal societies operated on principles of mutual aid, where resources and support were shared to ensure the survival and success of the group. This concept of mutual aid is in stark contrast to the capitalist idea of survival of the fittest.
6. Collective Responsibility: In many indigenous and tribal communities, there is a strong sense of collective responsibility, where everyone contributes to and takes responsibility for the community's welfare.
7. Resource Sharing: Early human societies practiced resource sharing to ensure that everyone had access to necessities. This practice aligns with the communist principle of distributing resources according to need, as opposed to the capitalist principle of accumulating wealth for personal gain.
8. Community-Oriented Mindset: Humans have a natural tendency to prioritize the community's needs over individual desires. This community-oriented mindset supports the idea that communal living and shared resources are more in tune with human nature than the competitive, profit-driven focus of capitalism.
9. Fairness and Equality: Humans have an inherent sense of fairness and a desire for equality. Communal systems strive to ensure that everyone has equal access to resources and opportunities, while capitalism often leads to significant inequalities and social stratification.
10. Sustainability: Communal living often emphasizes sustainable practices that benefit the community in the long term. In contrast, capitalism frequently promotes short-term gains at the expense of long-term sustainability, leading to environmental degradation and resource depletion.

Human nature is more aligned with communal and cooperative living than with the competitive, individualistic nature of capitalism.

which is why it will always fail.

Modern, high-tech communism is the objective and goal of socialism. The USSR was the Union Of Soviet Socialist Republics. Do you see the word "communist" there anywhere? The Soviets were a society moving, evolving towards high-tech, modern communism. Socialism is the process that leads to modern, "high-communism". The communism of our ancestors was "primitive communism" and the communism of the future is "high-communism" or high-tech communism.
Socialism has never failed, because even in the nations that are under "siege socialism", being economically embargoed and threatened with war (under siege) by the United States capitalist empire (the 800-pound gorilla in the room), such countries still manage to survive. The nations that apply socialist principles to their economies and politics, are the most developed, industrialized countries in the world.

Communism, whether primitive or modern, is a stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money. This is how it is defined by Marx and everyone else:
A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state (or nation state).[7][8][9]

Communism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Communism in the modern age has never been established. It will take advanced automation and artificial intelligence, to establish a true communist society, with a non-profit system of production. We are now at the advent of a new communist era.

Older people know this...

Older Americans are brainwashed by capitalist Cold War propaganda. The older Russians who lived in the USSR, for the most part, wish they could go back to the USSR:

Communist scholars - debating with capitalist-apologists:



​

younger people have been misled into thinking that their lives will be better with government control of their lives!

That's a better description of capitalism, not council-communism/high-communism.

 

[TruthNotBS]

View attachment 975705

That's not an argument with any substance or evidence. The reality is that without the government or public funding, we wouldn't have this technology now and your fantasy that it would've happened, is just that, a fantasy claim. The government is what provided us with this technology, not capitalists. Capitalists rely heavily on the government:

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RANK	PARENT	SUBSIDY VALUE	NUMBER OF AWARDS
1	Boeing	$15,496,865,703	958
2	Intel	$8,421,707,656	135
3	Ford Motor	$7,742,056,086	703
4	General Motors	$7,524,714,800	792
5	Micron Technology	$6,790,131,915	21
6	Amazon.com	$5,823,705,434	460
7	Alcoa	$5,727,691,764	134
8	Cheniere Energy	$5,617,152,523	43
9	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,820,110,112	74
10	Venture Global LNG	$4,338,702,441	8
11	Texas Instruments	$4,286,328,869	69
12	Volkswagen	$3,977,630,513	217
13	Sempra Energy	$3,828,022,782	51
14	NRG Energy	$3,415,751,518	266
15	NextEra Energy	$3,008,691,129	116
16	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,829,855,494	114
18	Stellantis	$2,795,436,436	213
19	Walt Disney	$2,543,219,673	265
20	Nucor	$2,538,761,123	176
21	Iberdrola	$2,380,558,984	110
22	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$2,364,054,012	7
23	Hyundai Motor	$2,349,743,470	18
24	Oracle	$2,272,418,288	96
25	Shell PLC	$2,211,676,001	132
26	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
27	Nike	$2,104,917,829	153
28	Meta Platforms Inc.	$2,098,261,272	82
29	Toyota	$2,071,010,689	239
30	Alphabet Inc.	$2,054,325,527	125
31	Brookfield Corporation	$1,979,408,388	288
32	Paramount Global	$1,974,249,897	342
33	Comcast	$1,927,402,844	405
34	Exxon Mobil	$1,917,119,478	241
35	Samsung Electronics	$1,891,136,597	41
36	Apple Inc.	$1,845,004,670	63
37	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	98
38	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,830,986,253	1,200
39	Summit Power	$1,783,593,414	6
40	JPMorgan Chase	$1,740,972,699	1,151
41	Energy Transfer	$1,736,836,843	175
42	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,705,497,604	129
43	Southern Company	$1,694,958,172	45
44	General Electric	$1,645,135,367	958
45	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,623,857,336	33
46	Duke Energy	$1,580,421,869	86
47	Wolfspeed Inc.	$1,563,595,610	64
48	General Atomics	$1,510,875,891	112
49	IBM Corp.	$1,497,901,697	368
50	Lockheed Martin	$1,462,674,082	325
51	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
52	SCS Energy	$1,419,011,796	5
53	Corning Inc.	$1,391,603,359	401
54	Panasonic	$1,384,147,584	61
55	Microsoft	$1,366,243,159	113
56	Sagamore Development	$1,320,000,000	2
57	Northrop Grumman	$1,284,014,883	285
58	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
59	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
60	RTX Corporation	$1,193,950,954	797
61	CF Industries	$1,134,394,215	131
62	Valero Energy	$1,053,812,692	207
63	Dow Inc.	$1,049,354,213	640
64	AES Corp.	$1,039,510,135	136
65	Air Products & Chemicals	$1,025,557,482	88
66	Exelon	$986,892,877	98
67	Pyramid Companies	$973,565,278	93
68	SK Holdings	$960,550,283	8
69	SkyWest	$944,296,654	339
70	Centene	$916,607,054	60
71	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
72	Apollo Global Management	$897,750,089	594
73	Delta Air Lines	$871,485,833	13
74	Jefferies Financial Group	$871,137,335	16
75	SK Hynix	$866,700,000	2
76	Bayer	$852,475,226	217
77	Honda	$849,832,301	93
78	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$828,683,936	106
79	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	89
80	SunEdison	$817,425,725	115
81	Goldman Sachs	$800,873,386	253
82	Bank of America	$798,426,128	956
83	E.ON	$786,865,473	40
84	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$786,835,708	219
85	EDF-Electricite de France	$774,590,441	36
86	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
87	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
88	Related Companies	$714,675,504	8
89	Koch Industries	$683,066,388	510
90	Caithness Energy	$672,688,888	30
91	Dell Technologies	$658,417,951	185
92	Wells Fargo	$657,333,216	542
93	FedEx	$647,035,546	633
94	Entergy	$638,533,387	235
95	OCI N.V.	$627,879,406	5
96	Eli Lilly	$623,326,368	79
97	Chevron Phillips Chemical	$619,839,444	20
98	Bedrock Detroit	$618,000,000	1
99	Dominion Energy	$615,436,089	79

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When the government funds your beloved capitalist masters, you support it but when it serves the American working class, the public, you shout "Commie!". The level of scumbaggery among you capitalist bootlickers is pathetic and repulsive. When the government does anything to help working-class people, you object and start insulting and denigrating them. But when it gives money to wealthy billionaires and multi-millionaires, you're all for it. It's not "commie" then, it's all kosher and good. You're disgusting.

 

[Oddball]

Communism, whether primitive or modern, is a stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money. This is how it is defined by Marx and everyone else:
A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state (or nation state).[7][8][9]

Commies: We don't need no stinkin' money!

Also commies: We can't establish our Utopian order because them filthy capitalist pigs won't lend us any moonnnnnneyyyyyyy!

 

[Oddball]

That's not an argument with any substance or evidence. The reality is that without the government or public funding, we wouldn't have this technology now and your fantasy that would've happened, is just that, a fantasy claim. The government is what provided us with this technology, not capitalists. Capitalists rely heavily on government:

Download results as CSV or XML or Save your search (Click here for information on download subscriptions)

RANK	PARENT	SUBSIDY VALUE	NUMBER OF AWARDS
1	Boeing	$15,496,865,703	958
2	Intel	$8,421,707,656	135
3	Ford Motor	$7,742,056,086	703
4	General Motors	$7,524,714,800	792
5	Micron Technology	$6,790,131,915	21
6	Amazon.com	$5,823,705,434	460
7	Alcoa	$5,727,691,764	134
8	Cheniere Energy	$5,617,152,523	43
9	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,820,110,112	74
10	Venture Global LNG	$4,338,702,441	8
11	Texas Instruments	$4,286,328,869	69
12	Volkswagen	$3,977,630,513	217
13	Sempra Energy	$3,828,022,782	51
14	NRG Energy	$3,415,751,518	266
15	NextEra Energy	$3,008,691,129	116
16	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,829,855,494	114
18	Stellantis	$2,795,436,436	213
19	Walt Disney	$2,543,219,673	265
20	Nucor	$2,538,761,123	176
21	Iberdrola	$2,380,558,984	110
22	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$2,364,054,012	7
23	Hyundai Motor	$2,349,743,470	18
24	Oracle	$2,272,418,288	96
25	Shell PLC	$2,211,676,001	132
26	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
27	Nike	$2,104,917,829	153
28	Meta Platforms Inc.	$2,098,261,272	82
29	Toyota	$2,071,010,689	239
30	Alphabet Inc.	$2,054,325,527	125
31	Brookfield Corporation	$1,979,408,388	288
32	Paramount Global	$1,974,249,897	342
33	Comcast	$1,927,402,844	405
34	Exxon Mobil	$1,917,119,478	241
35	Samsung Electronics	$1,891,136,597	41
36	Apple Inc.	$1,845,004,670	63
37	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	98
38	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,830,986,253	1,200
39	Summit Power	$1,783,593,414	6
40	JPMorgan Chase	$1,740,972,699	1,151
41	Energy Transfer	$1,736,836,843	175
42	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,705,497,604	129
43	Southern Company	$1,694,958,172	45
44	General Electric	$1,645,135,367	958
45	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,623,857,336	33
46	Duke Energy	$1,580,421,869	86
47	Wolfspeed Inc.	$1,563,595,610	64
48	General Atomics	$1,510,875,891	112
49	IBM Corp.	$1,497,901,697	368
50	Lockheed Martin	$1,462,674,082	325
51	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
52	SCS Energy	$1,419,011,796	5
53	Corning Inc.	$1,391,603,359	401
54	Panasonic	$1,384,147,584	61
55	Microsoft	$1,366,243,159	113
56	Sagamore Development	$1,320,000,000	2
57	Northrop Grumman	$1,284,014,883	285
58	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
59	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
60	RTX Corporation	$1,193,950,954	797
61	CF Industries	$1,134,394,215	131
62	Valero Energy	$1,053,812,692	207
63	Dow Inc.	$1,049,354,213	640
64	AES Corp.	$1,039,510,135	136
65	Air Products & Chemicals	$1,025,557,482	88
66	Exelon	$986,892,877	98
67	Pyramid Companies	$973,565,278	93
68	SK Holdings	$960,550,283	8
69	SkyWest	$944,296,654	339
70	Centene	$916,607,054	60
71	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
72	Apollo Global Management	$897,750,089	594
73	Delta Air Lines	$871,485,833	13
74	Jefferies Financial Group	$871,137,335	16
75	SK Hynix	$866,700,000	2
76	Bayer	$852,475,226	217
77	Honda	$849,832,301	93
78	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$828,683,936	106
79	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	89
80	SunEdison	$817,425,725	115
81	Goldman Sachs	$800,873,386	253
82	Bank of America	$798,426,128	956
83	E.ON	$786,865,473	40
84	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$786,835,708	219
85	EDF-Electricite de France	$774,590,441	36
86	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
87	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
88	Related Companies	$714,675,504	8
89	Koch Industries	$683,066,388	510
90	Caithness Energy	$672,688,888	30
91	Dell Technologies	$658,417,951	185
92	Wells Fargo	$657,333,216	542
93	FedEx	$647,035,546	633
94	Entergy	$638,533,387	235
95	OCI N.V.	$627,879,406	5
96	Eli Lilly	$623,326,368	79
97	Chevron Phillips Chemical	$619,839,444	20
98	Bedrock Detroit	$618,000,000	1
99	Dominion Energy	$615,436,089	79

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When the government funds your beloved capitalist masters, you support it but when it serves the American working class, the public, you shout "Commie!". The level of scumbaggery among you capitalist bootlickers is pathetic and repulsive. When the government does anything to help working-class people, you object and start insulting and denigrating them. But when it gives money to wealthy billionaires and multi-millionaires, you're all for it. It's not "commie" then, it's all kosher and good. You're disgusting.

Corporatism isn't laissez-faire, sub-cretin.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Corporatism isn't laissez-faire, sub-cretin.

Corporate cronyism is endemic to capitalism and laissez-faire is just as devastating to the working-class.

 

[Vastator]

I've already responded to your stupid talking points on this thread in several posts, but for the sake of others, I will respond to your disingenuous claptrap.



Communists have never promised paradise, just something much better. Furthermore, with the advent of more advanced technology in the area of production and logistics, modern communism becomes even more viable, to the point of becoming a necessity as technology replaces wage-labor. Without wages, capitalism collapses, requiring socialism and then later communism to replace it. Socialism and later communism is the natural, inevitable successor of capitalism.

More, an economic, sociopolitical system isn't fully realized, until it is, and when it is, who will use such stupid objections as yours for its validity? Did the mercantile class of Europe dominate the royal, feudal aristocracy overnight? Did it take one swoop of the sword, for the anti-monarchist, republicans, who were funded by the merchant class, to replace the kings and queens of Europe?

Did the merchants become the dominant, ruling class of Europe in one century, in one single try, one war, one event? No. It took centuries of development, effort, bloodshed, growth..etc.
The Industrial Revolution allowed for the merchants to finally replace the royal and feudal aristocracy of Europe, as the dominant ruling class. It took a new technology and revolution in production for that to happen and today the same is true.

The problem is that you're a shithead, so you think communism has to replace capitalism within the time-frame that you've determined. But reality doesn't work that way, despite your disingenuous, bullshit demands. Advanced 21st century automation and artificial intelligence is to communism what the industrial revolution was for capitalism. Communism is the natural, inevitable successor of capitalism, just as capitalism was the system that replaced feudalism.




Oh no, not the stupid capitalist "human nature" argument. When will you brain-dead capitalist drones realize how dumb that argument is? Human beings were communists for tens of thousands of years.

View attachment 975688

View attachment 975689

View attachment 975690​

Communism is more ingrained in our human nature than capitalism, a system of production that is only 220 years old, at best. We were tribal communists, hunter-gatherers, for at least 100 thousand years. Here are other traits of our human nature, that you capitalist bootlickers ignore:

View attachment 975693​

1. Cooperation: Human societies have historically thrived on cooperation. Early tribal communities worked together for hunting, gathering, and protection. This collective effort ensured survival and prosperity, highlighting the importance of working together rather than competing against one another.
2. Solidarity: Human beings have a natural inclination towards forming bonds and supporting each other. In tribal and communal settings, solidarity was crucial for maintaining social harmony and addressing collective needs. This contrasts with capitalism's emphasis on individualism and competition.
3. Empathy: Empathy drives humans to care for others and act in ways that benefit the community. In capitalist systems, the focus on profit often undermines empathetic actions, while in communal systems, empathy is a driving force for ensuring everyone's well-being.
4. Altruism: Throughout history, acts of altruism have been fundamental in building and sustaining communities. People often help others without expecting anything in return, a trait that is more compatible with communal living than with capitalist ideologies that prioritize self-interest.
5. Mutual Aid: Tribal societies operated on principles of mutual aid, where resources and support were shared to ensure the survival and success of the group. This concept of mutual aid is in stark contrast to the capitalist idea of survival of the fittest.
6. Collective Responsibility: In many indigenous and tribal communities, there is a strong sense of collective responsibility, where everyone contributes to and takes responsibility for the community's welfare.
7. Resource Sharing: Early human societies practiced resource sharing to ensure that everyone had access to necessities. This practice aligns with the communist principle of distributing resources according to need, as opposed to the capitalist principle of accumulating wealth for personal gain.
8. Community-Oriented Mindset: Humans have a natural tendency to prioritize the community's needs over individual desires. This community-oriented mindset supports the idea that communal living and shared resources are more in tune with human nature than the competitive, profit-driven focus of capitalism.
9. Fairness and Equality: Humans have an inherent sense of fairness and a desire for equality. Communal systems strive to ensure that everyone has equal access to resources and opportunities, while capitalism often leads to significant inequalities and social stratification.
10. Sustainability: Communal living often emphasizes sustainable practices that benefit the community in the long term. In contrast, capitalism frequently promotes short-term gains at the expense of long-term sustainability, leading to environmental degradation and resource depletion.

Human nature is more aligned with communal and cooperative living than with the competitive, individualistic nature of capitalism.




Modern, high-tech communism is the objective and goal of socialism. The USSR was the Union Of Soviet Socialist Republics. Do you see the word "communist" there anywhere? The Soviets were a society moving, evolving towards high-tech, modern communism. Socialism is the process that leads to modern, "high-communism". The communism of our ancestors was "primitive communism" and the communism of the future is "high-communism" or high-tech communism.
Socialism has never failed, because even in the nations that are under "siege socialism", being economically embargoed and threatened with war (under siege) by the United States capitalist empire (the 800-pound gorilla in the room), such countries still manage to survive. The nations that apply socialist principles to their economies and politics, are the most developed, industrialized countries in the world.

Communism, whether primitive or modern, is a stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money. This is how it is defined by Marx and everyone else:
A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state (or nation state).[7][8][9]

Communism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Communism in the modern age has never been established. It will take advanced automation and artificial intelligence, to establish a true communist society, with a non-profit system of production. We are now at the advent of a new communist era.



Older Americans are brainwashed by capitalist Cold War propaganda. The older Russians who lived in the USSR, for the most part, wish they could go back to the USSR:

Communist scholars - debating with capitalist-apologists:



​

That's a better description of capitalism, not council-communism/high-communism.

Your cute modern paintings don't give insights into actual ancient social structures. But do you know what does? Burials. And ancient burials have consitently, shown time, and again that social hierarchies have existed since the dawn of man. That isn't going to change...

 

[TruthNotBS]

Your cute modern paintings don't give insights into actual ancient social structures. But do you know what does? Burials. And ancient burials have consitently, shown time, and again that social hierarchies have existed since the dawn of man. That isn't going to change...

Social hierarchies are not necessarily limited to socioeconomic classes as exists in capitalism. There are different types of social hierarchies. More, as communists we're not against social hierarchies, provided that leadership is elected by the working class.

Are you for slavery? That was one of the social hierarchies of the past. Master and slave. Are you for that? Are you for feudal lord and serf? Do we have to continue with those "hierarchies" or human relationships or can we abolish and replace them with something better?

Can we abolish the employer/exploiter and employee/exploitee relationship in production? Can we do that? Do we have your permission to abolish that and do something else?

Advanced automation and artificial intelligence is right now abolishing the employer-employee relationship by eliminating the need for the employee. That's great because these smart robots will end the exploitation of human labor. With that, it will also collapse capitalism and make socialism and later communism a necessity. So we're optimistic in the commie camp and you're smart enough to realize that we've won, you just cant get yourself to admit it.

 

[dblack]

You can't even define your position, when requested to do so, accusing me of being "pedantic", how pathetic.

Yeah, yeah. Shill.