Democracy In Egypt Is Bad For The United States

[The Infidel]

I tend to listen and believe someone when they say they are going institute Sharia Law, which means stoning for adultery, women becoming cattle, beheadings for blasphemy, and scrapping the peace treaty with Israel.

I guess in a free country anyone can say what they want. When they start becoming part of the political process by forming a political party such as the GOP or the Democrat, and start influencing people from inside the government, it's only just a matter of time before their beliefs start becoming law.

If you want Egypt to take a huge step backwards and destabilize an important area of the Middle East, then go ahead and give them a seat.

 

[mudwhistle]

Of course he's silent - that's the smart move. If he backs the protesters, the Iranian leadership will portray them as tools of the West, and discredit them, thereby excusing them to use force.

A portion of people in Tehran will know the truth, but people spread across the country who rely on government-controlled radio and media will believe it.

You're not too bright.

You're a liberal hack that gobbles up Obama's propaganda and parrots it to anyone who'll listen.

So they didn't think the Egyptian protesters looked like tools of the West?

Anderson Cooper got several wacks up side the head from folks that were yelling anti-American bullshit. They seemed to think we were helping the revolt. They were right.

Now when it comes to an enemy Obama wants to play it safe. Instead of encouragement he disappears and wants to talk about his fucked up budget. He helps bring down an ally, a flawed ally none the less, but an ally. But our enemies, naw. Doesn't have the nuts to utter a word.

While an ally was in trouble he wouldn't shut up. He repeatedly said that the process must start NOW. I remember everyone in the administration repeating that word. Iran, later, Egypt, now.

And what does this show our friends and our enemies???

It shows them that he's gutless. He'll sneak around and undermine our allies but our enemies.....well he's just too damned scared to say, "Mr Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!!!!!"

Let's not get all Boehner (could not resist) now . . . nothing against him or the Republicans.

Take a look at the big picture.

Egypts movement was in their favor, the protesters were an overwhelming force to get Mubarak out and for Democratic changes. I'm not going out on a limb by stating they're the most educated/civil Middle Eastern country . . . besides maybe Israel . . . and therefore have an advantage over others.
We knew that we could not support the dictatorship vs. that. Do you think we should have gone "all-in" with Mubarak? It would have been the worst case scenario. "The U.S. supports Mubarak". Effigys of Obama/the Stars and Stripes would be burning and the Muslim Brotherhood minority would roll with it. It would have been a Brotherhood majority that kicked Mubarak out.

Iran is a different ball game. The protestors and the goverment/military has had a few weeks to prepare and learn from Egypt. The government is more extreme and we barely have any influence over there. Plus they have organized thugs who have no issues going ballistic on the protesters.
What are we supposed to do? Invade Iran? Put a Black Ops in to assainate Irans Heads of State and Mullah? Do you really think they give a *#@%? about what we say regarding Iran? Iran does not have the masses like Egypt and I'm sure the goverment has put a vice on the media/internet to prevent large gatherings. They have had time to learn what works and what they can get away with.
Yemen is another prob. There is a strong Al-Queda influence there and the protesters are not looking for democracy. At least not like Egypt.
Bahrain is an ally and a strategic area for us with the ports. I'm concerned with that and if the U.S. miltary aid is requested . . . that would be tricky.

What does Obama actions (or lack of) show for the rest of our "allies" and enemies?

I know that Saudi Arabia should be considered an ally even though they produced Bin Laden, some of the 9/11 hijackers, and a couple of sheiks that may financially support questionable groups. We invested a lot in them. From training to military hardware.

Likewise with Pakistan, although some of the allegiances are not for the U.S. and there is a stronger Taliban support presence there.

Both countries are dicey should an uprising come up. Not so much the Saudis, because they got the mullah and lots of it. But the Pakis might be ugly.

Each country is case by case.

Been to Somalia and the Persian Gulf for three and half years. I know what Iran is about.

Noted.

In my opinion the Obama Administration handled the situation poorly. Obama should have acted like he has with Iran. My problem is with his double-standards here. Obama made the United States an even bigger target with his actions. The Muslim Street hates us even more because of his Administrations meddling in their affairs. I kept yelling at the television, "Why doesn't he just shut the **** up. You're only making things worse!!!!"

He didn't show the kind of diplomacy the situation required. Not all of his people were on the same sheet of music. They appeared ill-prepared and amateurish. Because of that we'll pay a price with the people of Egypt. Many of them will resent our involvement. In 09' Obama was welcome in Cairo. Not today.

I just wish he would show the same concern for the people of Iran as he did for Egypt, but he didn't. Everyone deserves to live in peace, not just one country. Freedom is everyone's right, not something for this person but not for another. The simple fact that nobody cares about the people of Iran at this time is what condemns them. No pressure is being brought to bare on them so they have no reason to change. They even confessed that because the international community doesn't care they don't feel like giving their people a thing. Who cares that people are getting killed, thrown in prison, and tortured as we speak. It's not our problem.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Gives us the stats MudWhistle and The Infidel that Egyptians as a whole intend to rule like Iran.

You can't because such don't exist.

The Egyptians are no more going to install sharia law than we would ever permit the far right religious loonies install a theocracy in America.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Gives us the stats MudWhistle and The Infidel that Egyptians as a whole intend to rule like Iran.

You can't because such don't exist.

The Egyptians are no more going to install sharia law than we would ever permit the far right religious loonies install a theocracy in America.

You're only fooling yourself sport if you think muslims would rule any other way.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Give us the stats, not your silly opinions, biggie, that only make the rest of us giggle.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Give us the stats, not your silly opinions, biggie, that only make the rest of us giggle.

I am laughing at you make me stop. Show ma some facts show me something than what the history of that culture has done. Did w see Afghanstan as that before we went there?

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have nothing then. A secular Turkey? A secular Jordan? So forth so on? Yeah, you are risible. That is why those who think as you are in such a minority.

 

[mudwhistle]

Gives us the stats MudWhistle and The Infidel that Egyptians as a whole intend to rule like Iran.

You can't because such don't exist.

The Egyptians are no more going to install sharia law than we would ever permit the far right religious loonies install a theocracy in America.

Keep thinking that dipshit.

It's moving even faster then I thought. The Muslim Brotherhood is forming their own party and will be involved in elections. Let's see how long it takes for them to turn the people against Israel. I'm told 65% already are in favor of scrapping the Camp David peace accord. That is not good.

The Muslim Brotherhood

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You have nothing then. A secular Turkey? A secular Jordan? So forth so on? Yeah, you are risible. That is why those who think as you are in such a minority.

As I said jake I'm laughing at you and your foolishness.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Gives us the stats MudWhistle and The Infidel that Egyptians as a whole intend to rule like Iran.

You can't because such don't exist.

The Egyptians are no more going to install sharia law than we would ever permit the far right religious loonies install a theocracy in America.

Keep thinking that dipshit.

It's moving even faster then I thought. The Muslim Brotherhood is forming their own party and will be involved in elections. Let's see how long it takes for them to turn the people against Israel. I'm told 65% already are in favor of scrapping the Camp David peace accord. That is not good.

The Muslim Brotherhood

WHO TOLD YOU, you constitution hater? Bigrebnc? For heaven's sake, Mudwhistle, let's figure a way to direct their foreign policy. Don't you get it? The Egyptians threw out a dictator. If they want a democracy, we are stuck with it. So, what do we do? Please do not suggest nukes. The British and French would nuke us if we did that.

 

[jckryan]

You're a liberal hack that gobbles up Obama's propaganda and parrots it to anyone who'll listen.

So they didn't think the Egyptian protesters looked like tools of the West?

Anderson Cooper got several wacks up side the head from folks that were yelling anti-American bullshit. They seemed to think we were helping the revolt. They were right.

Now when it comes to an enemy Obama wants to play it safe. Instead of encouragement he disappears and wants to talk about his fucked up budget. He helps bring down an ally, a flawed ally none the less, but an ally. But our enemies, naw. Doesn't have the nuts to utter a word.

While an ally was in trouble he wouldn't shut up. He repeatedly said that the process must start NOW. I remember everyone in the administration repeating that word. Iran, later, Egypt, now.

And what does this show our friends and our enemies???

It shows them that he's gutless. He'll sneak around and undermine our allies but our enemies.....well he's just too damned scared to say, "Mr Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!!!!!"

Let's not get all Boehner (could not resist) now . . . nothing against him or the Republicans.

Take a look at the big picture.

Egypts movement was in their favor, the protesters were an overwhelming force to get Mubarak out and for Democratic changes. I'm not going out on a limb by stating they're the most educated/civil Middle Eastern country . . . besides maybe Israel . . . and therefore have an advantage over others.
We knew that we could not support the dictatorship vs. that. Do you think we should have gone "all-in" with Mubarak? It would have been the worst case scenario. "The U.S. supports Mubarak". Effigys of Obama/the Stars and Stripes would be burning and the Muslim Brotherhood minority would roll with it. It would have been a Brotherhood majority that kicked Mubarak out.

Iran is a different ball game. The protestors and the goverment/military has had a few weeks to prepare and learn from Egypt. The government is more extreme and we barely have any influence over there. Plus they have organized thugs who have no issues going ballistic on the protesters.
What are we supposed to do? Invade Iran? Put a Black Ops in to assainate Irans Heads of State and Mullah? Do you really think they give a *#@%? about what we say regarding Iran? Iran does not have the masses like Egypt and I'm sure the goverment has put a vice on the media/internet to prevent large gatherings. They have had time to learn what works and what they can get away with.
Yemen is another prob. There is a strong Al-Queda influence there and the protesters are not looking for democracy. At least not like Egypt.
Bahrain is an ally and a strategic area for us with the ports. I'm concerned with that and if the U.S. miltary aid is requested . . . that would be tricky.

What does Obama actions (or lack of) show for the rest of our "allies" and enemies?

I know that Saudi Arabia should be considered an ally even though they produced Bin Laden, some of the 9/11 hijackers, and a couple of sheiks that may financially support questionable groups. We invested a lot in them. From training to military hardware.

Likewise with Pakistan, although some of the allegiances are not for the U.S. and there is a stronger Taliban support presence there.

Both countries are dicey should an uprising come up. Not so much the Saudis, because they got the mullah and lots of it. But the Pakis might be ugly.

Each country is case by case.

Been to Somalia and the Persian Gulf for three and half years. I know what Iran is about.

Noted.

In my opinion the Obama Administration handled the situation poorly. Obama should have acted like he has with Iran. My problem is with his double-standards here. Obama made the United States an even bigger target with his actions. The Muslim Street hates us even more because of his Administrations meddling in their affairs. I kept yelling at the television, "Why doesn't he just shut the **** up. You're only making things worse!!!!"

He didn't show the kind of diplomacy the situation required. Not all of his people were on the same sheet of music. They appeared ill-prepared and amateurish. Because of that we'll pay a price with the people of Egypt. Many of them will resent our involvement. In 09' Obama was welcome in Cairo. Not today.

I just wish he would show the same concern for the people of Iran as he did for Egypt, but he didn't. Everyone deserves to live in peace, not just one country. Freedom is everyone's right, not something for this person but not for another. The simple fact that nobody cares about the people of Iran at this time is what condemns them. No pressure is being brought to bare on them so they have no reason to change. They even confessed that because the international community doesn't care they don't feel like giving their people a thing. Who cares that people are getting killed, thrown in prison, and tortured as we speak. It's not our problem.

The way it was handled was a catch-22 for any administration. The result was a better (not the best) case scenario. The Brotherhood did not have any pin-up material (like smack talk opposing teams put up in the locker room before the big game) about the U.S. supporting Mubarak. They could not get that support from the majority college educated youngsters.
The military which has been in control for decades have kept the Brotherhood at bay, it would be in their best interests if they kept on doing it. The Brotherhood . . . although dangerous . . . is a minority in Egypt. By some off chance, imagine if they took power. They would have to make drastic changes in the military and get rid of nearly a quarter of a million people. Because extremists/dictators fear the educated. It could happen, but seriously.
Another thing, although the economy sucks all over. They don't want to end up like Iran's economy. Tourists will be less likely to visit the Nile, Pyramids, etc.. if it is controlled by extremists. Tourism is huge over there.

Iran is tough. I really can't give you anything. The goverment bypasses any sanctions by dealing with Russia and China . . . another *#%?! up issue. We start getting into it with Iran (aside from the "strongly opposing the use of violence") and Iran will cry U.S. involvement. They will also probably kiss Moscow's/Beijing's ass for moral support. If Russia/China stopped trading with Iran, then we would have more pull.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Gives us the stats MudWhistle and The Infidel that Egyptians as a whole intend to rule like Iran.

You can't because such don't exist.

The Egyptians are no more going to install sharia law than we would ever permit the far right religious loonies install a theocracy in America.

Keep thinking that dipshit.

It's moving even faster then I thought. The Muslim Brotherhood is forming their own party and will be involved in elections. Let's see how long it takes for them to turn the people against Israel. I'm told 65% already are in favor of scrapping the Camp David peace accord. That is not good.

The Muslim Brotherhood

WHO TOLD YOU, you constitution hater? Bigrebnc? For heaven's sake, Mudwhistle, let's figure a way to direct their foreign policy. Don't you get it? The Egyptians threw out a dictator. If they want a democracy, we are stuck with it. So, what do we do? Please do not suggest nukes. The British and French would nuke us if we did that.

With your views you are the one that hates the constitution. Or do you like it the way it is? Do you want any changes made to it?>

 

[jckryan]

Gives us the stats MudWhistle and The Infidel that Egyptians as a whole intend to rule like Iran.

You can't because such don't exist.

The Egyptians are no more going to install sharia law than we would ever permit the far right religious loonies install a theocracy in America.

Keep thinking that dipshit.

It's moving even faster then I thought. The Muslim Brotherhood is forming their own party and will be involved in elections. Let's see how long it takes for them to turn the people against Israel. I'm told 65% already are in favor of scrapping the Camp David peace accord. That is not good.

The Muslim Brotherhood

That link is fact and opinion. The writer should have proof-read the article first, the 21st of February is a week away (probably a typo). I know about the Brotherhood and the history is spot on. But, still think that the Egyptian population is the most westernized arabic country there is and it will be a tough sell.

The young/educated/independent women won't take it and if they are forced to flee Egypt . . . the man-to-woman ratio will really suck.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Gives us the stats MudWhistle and The Infidel that Egyptians as a whole intend to rule like Iran.

You can't because such don't exist.

The Egyptians are no more going to install sharia law than we would ever permit the far right religious loonies install a theocracy in America.

Keep thinking that dipshit.

It's moving even faster then I thought. The Muslim Brotherhood is forming their own party and will be involved in elections. Let's see how long it takes for them to turn the people against Israel. I'm told 65% already are in favor of scrapping the Camp David peace accord. That is not good.

The Muslim Brotherhood

That link is fact and opinion. The writer should have proof-read the article first, the 21st of February is a week away (probably a typo). I know about the Brotherhood and the history is spot on. But, still think that the Egyptian population is the most westernized arabic country there is and it will be a tough sell.

The young/educated/independent women won't take it and if they are forced to flee Egypt . . . the man-to-woman ratio will really suck.

I imagine the women will shoot the al-quada and MB types if they get in the way.

 

[mudwhistle]

Gives us the stats MudWhistle and The Infidel that Egyptians as a whole intend to rule like Iran.

You can't because such don't exist.

The Egyptians are no more going to install sharia law than we would ever permit the far right religious loonies install a theocracy in America.

Keep thinking that dipshit.

It's moving even faster then I thought. The Muslim Brotherhood is forming their own party and will be involved in elections. Let's see how long it takes for them to turn the people against Israel. I'm told 65% already are in favor of scrapping the Camp David peace accord. That is not good.

The Muslim Brotherhood

WHO TOLD YOU, you constitution hater? Bigrebnc? For heaven's sake, Mudwhistle, let's figure a way to direct their foreign policy. Don't you get it? The Egyptians threw out a dictator. If they want a democracy, we are stuck with it. So, what do we do? Please do not suggest nukes. The British and French would nuke us if we did that.

You constitution hater???
Jesus, you sound like a nut-job.

Democracy has nothing to do with a friggen constitution. Only the formation of a Republic leads to a constitution.

The problem here is they may want a Democracy but like I've pointed out Democracy is just a flowery term for LET'S STEP ALL OVER THE RIGHTS OF THE MINORITY. If we had a Democracy here we never would have had a civil rights movement. It wouldn't have mattered. The minority has no power. Once the majority in Egypt decides on the Muslim Brotherhood the rest of the population will have no say.

 

[jckryan]

Treating all Mideastern nations the same is not a good idea. Best to show the contrast between Egypt and Iran. Bringing the current government to its knees in Iran is a good goal. Indirectly supporting elements within Iran to meet that goal is a priority.

It's obvious that bringing down an ally is more important to Obama then bringing down an enemy.

Mubarak was an ally. Iran is an enemy.

His silence speaks volumes.

There's no other way a rational person can see it.

Actually, there is another way that rational people can see it. Obama did not bring Mubarak down. Mubarak was responsible for his own demise. Egypt is our ally, not Mubarak. As long as Egypt doesn't go the way Iran did in '79, and the people get what they want - democracy - then their relationship with the US and Israel will be fine. The concern, of course, is that the Muslim Brotherhood will initiate a power grab.

And, Obama should STFU about Iran. We cannot be seen to interfere there - but, a smart POTUS would be throwing support QUIETLY behind the protesters. We would do well to remember that we do not know everything that our Government is doing in the region... and that is a good thing.

Stop being so damned simplistic and narrow minded. It ain't all about Obama.

I think I'm in love

 

[mudwhistle]

Gives us the stats MudWhistle and The Infidel that Egyptians as a whole intend to rule like Iran.

You can't because such don't exist.

The Egyptians are no more going to install sharia law than we would ever permit the far right religious loonies install a theocracy in America.

Keep thinking that dipshit.

It's moving even faster then I thought. The Muslim Brotherhood is forming their own party and will be involved in elections. Let's see how long it takes for them to turn the people against Israel. I'm told 65% already are in favor of scrapping the Camp David peace accord. That is not good.

The Muslim Brotherhood

That link is fact and opinion. The writer should have proof-read the article first, the 21st of February is a week away (probably a typo). I know about the Brotherhood and the history is spot on. But, still think that the Egyptian population is the most westernized arabic country there is and it will be a tough sell.

The young/educated/independent women won't take it and if they are forced to flee Egypt . . . the man-to-woman ratio will really suck.

I'm sure the women are gonna stand up to thugs and guns, just like they do in Saudi Arabia, and everywhere else that is under Sharia Law.

Yes, what a feather in the Turban of Islamic radicals if Egypt were to fall into their hands.


Oh.....no that could never ever happen....because the press and Obama tells me it won't happen. DON'T WORRY!!!

These people are more sneaky about what they do then you give them credit for. Everything will be going along fine, then BOOM, they start protesting wages or some stupid shit and shut down the Suez Canal. Then they'll start blackmailing us to bail on Israel. Then more demands and more.

I wish things would go great, but I'm a realist, not one of your pie-in-the-sky fairytale dreaming Obama zombies.

 

[jckryan]

Keep thinking that dipshit.

It's moving even faster then I thought. The Muslim Brotherhood is forming their own party and will be involved in elections. Let's see how long it takes for them to turn the people against Israel. I'm told 65% already are in favor of scrapping the Camp David peace accord. That is not good.

The Muslim Brotherhood

That link is fact and opinion. The writer should have proof-read the article first, the 21st of February is a week away (probably a typo). I know about the Brotherhood and the history is spot on. But, still think that the Egyptian population is the most westernized arabic country there is and it will be a tough sell.

The young/educated/independent women won't take it and if they are forced to flee Egypt . . . the man-to-woman ratio will really suck.

I'm sure the women are gonna stand up to thugs and guns, just like they do in Saudi Arabia, and everywhere else that is under Sharia Law.

Yes, what a feather in the Turban of Islamic radicals if Egypt were to fall into their hands.


Oh.....no that could never ever happen....because the press and Obama tells me it won't happen. DON'T WORRY!!!

These people are more sneaky about what they do then you give them credit for. Everything will be going along fine, the BOOM, they start protesting wages or some stupid shit and shut down the Suez Canal. Then they'll start blackmailing us to bail on Israel. Then more demands and more.

I wish things would go great, but I'm a realist, not one of your pie-in-the-sky fairytale dreaming Obama zombies.

I'm sure the Brotherhood will try to undermine everything. But the economy was crap before the revolution, many were young, UNEMPLOYED, and held college degrees. The same situation we got here.
There were more English-speaking man (woman)-on-the-street interviews compared to say Iraq or Iran. The man-to-woman comment was a joke.

The Egyptian revolution was their fairytale. We'll see what happens in the next chapter . . .

 

[JakeStarkey]

Mudwhistle simply is whining.

 

[mudwhistle]

It's obvious that bringing down an ally is more important to Obama then bringing down an enemy.

Mubarak was an ally. Iran is an enemy.

His silence speaks volumes.

There's no other way a rational person can see it.

Actually, there is another way that rational people can see it. Obama did not bring Mubarak down. Mubarak was responsible for his own demise. Egypt is our ally, not Mubarak. As long as Egypt doesn't go the way Iran did in '79, and the people get what they want - democracy - then their relationship with the US and Israel will be fine. The concern, of course, is that the Muslim Brotherhood will initiate a power grab.

And, Obama should STFU about Iran. We cannot be seen to interfere there - but, a smart POTUS would be throwing support QUIETLY behind the protesters. We would do well to remember that we do not know everything that our Government is doing in the region... and that is a good thing.

Stop being so damned simplistic and narrow minded. It ain't all about Obama.

I think I'm in love

She's just giving me a hard time. Doing a driveby on me.

Besides, unless you're a Marine or at least an officer forget it.