Defining Conservatism

[georgephillip]

"Appearing at a Trump rally this past fall, Minneapolis police-union president Bob Kroll gloated, 'The first thing President Trump did when he took office was turn that around, got rid of the Holder–Loretta Lynch regime, and decided to start taking — letting the cops do their job, put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of us.'"

Yeah, and that is dead on right, and rightly so. It was the morally correct thing to do.

Your system, gets people killed.

Your conservative system has been lynching black people since before this country came into existence:

Black Man #GeorgeFloyd Murdered in Broad Daylight By Minnesota Police Officer (VIDEO)

 

[Correll]

Shouldn’t the question be what fucking authoritarianism are you talking about? And populism means what? Wishing for your country to be taken care of first? That’s populism and somehow bad?

Seriously? You're claiming to be ignorant of Trump's clumsy attempts at white supremacist inspired authoritarianism?

Trump Has Gone Full Authoritarian

"Trump has excited and cultivated the white-supremacist far right in ways no previous Republican president dared, and he has nurtured the pervasive sense of violent police impunity now on display in the streets.

"After the Obama administration built policies to repair the trust between police and urban communities, Trump tore them down contemptuously, restoring the practice of transferring used military equipment to police departments, which Obama had halted, and restricting the consent decrees Obama’s Department of Justice had signed with more than a dozen police departments.

"Appearing at a Trump rally this past fall, Minneapolis police-union president Bob Kroll gloated, 'The first thing President Trump did when he took office was turn that around, got rid of the Holder–Loretta Lynch regime, and decided to start taking — letting the cops do their job, put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of us.'"

Turns out, this is what they've wanted all along: A vulgar, pugilistic, nationalist authoritarian strongman. The "conservative values" crap was bullshit, the religion crap was bullshit, the fiscal conservatism crap was bullshit.

Now we know what they are and what they want.

george, teh commie you are sucking up to here, has admitted that he would like to see large percentages of his fellow americans lynched.


and he has been very evasive about commie genocides in general, while being very much blaming all evil in history on "Capitalism".


he is, very likely, a hard core communist, who would be happy to see most of the republicans on this site, mass murdered.


that is not me using hyperbole. you should really think about who you are running with.

I know what I'm against now, and I know what I'll have to deal with later.

I don't need one of those two whacked out ends to point anything out for me.

glad to hear it. my point stands. george is a hard core marxist, who seems quite comfortable with "Breaking a few eggs to make an omelet".


and by "egges" i mean millions of human lives.

 

[Mac1958]

Shouldn’t the question be what fucking authoritarianism are you talking about? And populism means what? Wishing for your country to be taken care of first? That’s populism and somehow bad?

Seriously? You're claiming to be ignorant of Trump's clumsy attempts at white supremacist inspired authoritarianism?

Trump Has Gone Full Authoritarian

"Trump has excited and cultivated the white-supremacist far right in ways no previous Republican president dared, and he has nurtured the pervasive sense of violent police impunity now on display in the streets.

"After the Obama administration built policies to repair the trust between police and urban communities, Trump tore them down contemptuously, restoring the practice of transferring used military equipment to police departments, which Obama had halted, and restricting the consent decrees Obama’s Department of Justice had signed with more than a dozen police departments.

"Appearing at a Trump rally this past fall, Minneapolis police-union president Bob Kroll gloated, 'The first thing President Trump did when he took office was turn that around, got rid of the Holder–Loretta Lynch regime, and decided to start taking — letting the cops do their job, put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of us.'"

Turns out, this is what they've wanted all along: A vulgar, pugilistic, nationalist authoritarian strongman. The "conservative values" crap was bullshit, the religion crap was bullshit, the fiscal conservatism crap was bullshit.

Now we know what they are and what they want.

george, teh commie you are sucking up to here, has admitted that he would like to see large percentages of his fellow americans lynched.


and he has been very evasive about commie genocides in general, while being very much blaming all evil in history on "Capitalism".


he is, very likely, a hard core communist, who would be happy to see most of the republicans on this site, mass murdered.


that is not me using hyperbole. you should really think about who you are running with.

I know what I'm against now, and I know what I'll have to deal with later.

I don't need one of those two whacked out ends to point anything out for me.

glad to hear it. my point stands. george is a hard core marxist, who seems quite comfortable with "Breaking a few eggs to make an omelet".


and by "egges" i mean millions of human lives.

georgephillip, just curious, are you a hardcore Marxist Communist?

 

[georgephillip]

so, your strongest evidence of "ws authoritarianism" is that he gave the police used military equipment?

I never made that claim.

You did, resorting, as usual, to cherry picking my links to defend Trump's own distinct brand of white supremacist authoritarianism:

Trump Has Gone Full Authoritarian

"Trump has excited and cultivated the white-supremacist far right in ways no previous Republican president dared, and he has nurtured the pervasive sense of violent police impunity now on display in the streets.

"After the Obama administration built policies to repair the trust between police and urban communities, Trump tore them down contemptuously, restoring the practice of transferring used military equipment to police departments, which Obama had halted, and restricting the consent decrees Obama’s Department of Justice had signed with more than a dozen police departments."

 

[Correll]

so, your strongest evidence of "ws authoritarianism" is that he gave the police used military equipment?

I never made that claim.

Y....

you made a moronic claim and posted an excerpt. that was the strongest "evidence"in it, that i could find.


that was not you sayihng that was your strongest evidence. that was the strongest evidence you presented to support your claim.


and it was pathetically weak ass shit.


oh, wait a minute. you're actually trying to react to my repeatedly pointing out that you never support your insane claims?


well good for you for trying.


but, as a commie, you can't support your claims. you have to lie. your goal is the mass murder of your fellow americans. they will never be convinced by you, by you being truthful.


that is why you got into the habit of avoiding any real discussion.


hilarious that you forgot that.

 

[georgephillip]

Turns out, this is what they've wanted all along: A vulgar, pugilistic, nationalist authoritarian strongman. The "conservative values" crap was bullshit, the religion crap was bullshit, the fiscal conservatism crap was bullshit.

Conservatives seem instinctively drawn to "might makes right" today in ways that are similar to their allegiance to the "Divine Right of Kings" centuries ago.

Cops in particular are susceptible:

Trump Has Gone Full Authoritarian

"Trump’s view of the police as the armed wing of the MAGA movement is reasonably well founded.

"A 2017 Pew survey asked if this country 'needs to continue making changes to give blacks equal rights with whites'

"While 54 percent of white people agreed, only 6 percent of white police officers did."

 

[Andylusion]

Support for the founding principals that made America a great nation. Fundamentals like work ethic, Christianity, moral values, and Family.

Those founding principles also included white supremacy, genocide, and chattel slavery all evils the left has no problem condemning; what's holding conservatives back?


There's No Real Definition of 'Conservatism' and That's a Good Thing | The American Conservative

"The most important question for any conservative remains: what should be conserved?

"When Russell Kirk, the father of post-World War II conservatism, attempted to explain the meaning of the movement, he counseled against any ironclad definitions.

"Taking a term from the tradition of the Roman Catholic Church (of which he was not yet a member in 1953), Kirk argued that one should define conservatism in terms of 'canons' or tenets, rather than in terms of absolutes.

"In some writings, he offered four canons, in some five canons, and in some ten canons as he struggled with the meaning of conservatism. Most often, though, Kirk listed six."

Those founding principles also included white supremacy, genocide, and chattel slavery all evils the left has no problem condemning; what's holding conservatives back?

Again, entirely false. Facts over opinion. We know what the founding principals of the nation were, because we stated them openly in some of founding documents, including....

The Declaration of Independence: Full text

www.ushistory.org

​

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.​

That's not up for debate. That's a fact. And you opinion is contradicted by those facts.

 

[Correll]

Turns out, this is what they've wanted all along: A vulgar, pugilistic, nationalist authoritarian strongman. The "conservative values" crap was bullshit, the religion crap was bullshit, the fiscal conservatism crap was bullshit.

Conservatives seem instinctively drawn to "might makes right" today in ways that are similar to their allegiance to the "Divine Right of Kings" centuries ago.

...

actually, the divine right of king, is more akin to the liberal view of the State being the giver of rights. while conservatives see rights as god given.


mac asked you a question. you afraid to answer? oh, and it is simple question. the more evasive you get, the more you will show mac that i am right, and you are a genocidal commie..

 

[sartre play]

Its the clinging to a brand no matter what they put in the can. the need to be owned, controlled, lead.
Followers. not a bad thing, but do we have to be brain dead zombies? never question never search beyond our comfort zone.
Things are not getting better.

 

[Andylusion]

rump has excited and cultivated the white-supremacist far right in ways no previous Republican president dared, and he has nurtured the pervasive sense of violent police impunity now on display in the streets.

Opinion, not fact.

Trump's support for white supremacy is unprecedented among recent presidents as this fact, NOT opinion proves:

White supremacists cheer Trump racist tweets

"President Donald Trump's racist comments about Democratic congresswomen have won him renewed support from white supremacists who had been losing faith that he was the hero they wanted to create a prospering White America.

"Trump told the four women of color that they should 'go back' to the 'crime infested places' they came from, even though three of the four were born in the US and the fourth is a naturalized citizen."

"President Donald Trump's racist comments about Democratic congresswomen have won him renewed support from white supremacists who had been losing faith that he was the hero they wanted to create a prospering White America.

That is opinion, not fact.


"Trump told the four women of color that they should 'go back' to the 'crime infested places' they came from, even though three of the four were born in the US and the fourth is a naturalized citizen."

Again, not even true. So this isn't even opinion, this is just a lie.

Donald Trump did not say "Go back" as statement. Simply never happened.

He said following.....

So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly......​

​

....and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....​

​

....it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!​

​

In context.... using rational thinking over partisan lies and bigotry......

Trump's tweets had absolutely nothing at all to do with race, or telling "People of color" to leave the nation.

Trump said effectively what all of us have said, which that we are tried of people from absolutely wreck and ruined countries, coming to the US, and telling us that our system sucks.

Our system has resulted in the most wealth for the most people, where the poorest people in our country, live like the middle class of other countries.

Meanwhile their countries that they came from, are absolute disasters.

If their system is so much better than our system, then go back to those countries, and make their brilliant perfect utopian system work. And when they prove it works better than ours, then you can come back and tell us how our system is so terrible.

This is like Andrew Cuomo who killed off the most old people in the country, tell Trump he's doing it wrong. Go back to your own state, and fix your own screwed up system of death, before telling others you know how to do it better.

Nothing racists about that at all... entirely 100% correct, and right, and justly deserved.

You, and your partisan left-wing trash, are all just bigots. It's that simple.

 

[Andylusion]

Well, I am a conservative and I think we should try our best to ignore this environmental stuff that is going on. I am so conservative that I think we should go back to right before the dinosaurs went extinct. High levels of CO2 and no taxes.

We have no control whatsoever on CO2. If we made it public policy to increase the world concentration of CO2, we would have no control on that, anymore than saying we can stop CO2.

Ridiculous anti-science position to have.

 

[Correll]

Its the clinging to a brand no matter what they put in the can. the need to be owned, controlled, lead.
Followers. not a bad thing, but do we have to be brain dead zombies? never question never search beyond our comfort zone.
Things are not getting better.

we rebelled against our leaders and went for an outsider who was not even conservative.


that is pretty much the opposite of being a brain dead follower.

 

[georgephillip]

they, like you, are obviously anti-american commies traitors.

telling them to go back to where they came from, even if that is a generation or two removed, is completely appropriate, based on their anti-americanism.

By the same racist "reasoning" Trump should go back to Germany. Four American women invoked their First Amendment rights to criticize Trump's border policies, and he reacted exactly as a life-long white supremacist would be expected:

Trump tweets racist attacks at progressive Democratic congresswomen

"A group of Democrats, who are women of color and have been outspoken about Trump's immigration policies, last week condemned the conditions of border detention facilities.

"The group of women joining Ocasio-Cortez were Rashida Tlaib of Michigan, Ilhan Omar of Minnesota and Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts.

"Trump implied in the series of tweets that the congresswomen weren't born in America and sarcastically suggested, 'they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came.'

"Later Sunday, Ocasio-Cortez wrote on Twitter that the country she 'come(s) from' and 'swears to' is the US and suggested that Trump is 'angry because you can't conceive of an America that includes us.'"

 

[Correll]

they, like you, are obviously anti-american commies traitors.

telling them to go back to where they came from, even if that is a generation or two removed, is completely appropriate, based on their anti-americanism.

By the same racist "reasoning" Trump should go back to Germany. ...

wow. i clearly stated it was because of their anti-american actions and beliefs, like you, you commie.


it is not just about having an immigration background a generation or two back.


are you just pretending to be stupid or what?

 

[Andylusion]

Facts over opinion. We are right, and you are evil. Obama didn't bring anyone together. Obama routinely accused people of being racists against him, and routinely portrayed police badly, and criminals as good.

Obama recognized the obvious: some police officers view black and Hispanic people as prey, something Trump and many conservatives would likely endorse:

‘I Got Tired of Hunting Black and Hispanic People’

"'You are stopping too many Russian and Chinese,' one of the officers, Daniel Perez, recalled the commander telling him earlier this decade.

"Another officer, Aaron Diaz, recalled the same commander saying in 2012, 'You should write more black and Hispanic people.'"

Facts over opinion.

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/year-end-2019-enforcement-report.pdf

Second page of introduction.

Police officers do not have unlimited time. The amount of time spent on stopping someone highly unlikely to be involved in a crime, is a waste of time, waste of tax payer money, and does not help reduce the number of crime victims.

In other words it helps no one, and wastes money.

In New York City, according to their own published stats by the NYC Police Department, for misdemeanors and criminal mischief.....

51% of all criminals were black.
30% were Hispanic.

For those of you with government public school education, that is 81% of crimes were by black and Hispanic criminals.

Asians were 4.3%. And only 14.8% were white. Keep in mind the vast majority of people the officers could stop, especially in the China Town area of NYC, are going to be white and Asian.

If you were a police officer, and you were ordered to do look for criminals... who are you going to hunt for? The people who barely make up 20% of the crime? Or the people who make up 80% of the crime?

One makes you a waste of money, that harms society because you are sucking down tax dollars doing nothing of value, the other makes you a useful police officer.

Facts over your idiotic opinion. If Blacks and Hispanics are most of the criminals, then blacks and Hispanics are who you looking for. That's how that works stupid.

 

[georgephillip]

he is not authoritarian. that is just silly nonsense.

Trump is an authoritarian as evidenced by his view that violence is an extension of politics and his inability to grasp any relationship except as a zero-sum contest of domination; he is also a life-long con man with little regard for the law unless it works in his favor:

Trump Has Gone Full Authoritarian

"Trump has not exactly devoted his life to the principle of strict legal compliance.

"Put aside his long history of criminal behavior and associations that alone would forfeit any moral standing he might have. (Trump has personally stolen millions and millions of dollars through what the New York Times described as 'outright fraud,' in addition to numerous schemes that have been the subject of litigation, making him a far bigger thief than any looter.)

"Trump is eager to incite disorder in the streets and defiance of the law on his own behalf."

 

[Andylusion]

they, like you, are obviously anti-american commies traitors.

telling them to go back to where they came from, even if that is a generation or two removed, is completely appropriate, based on their anti-americanism.

By the same racist "reasoning" Trump should go back to Germany. Four American women invoked their First Amendment rights to criticize Trump's border policies, and he reacted exactly as a life-long white supremacist would be expected:

Trump tweets racist attacks at progressive Democratic congresswomen

"A group of Democrats, who are women of color and have been outspoken about Trump's immigration policies, last week condemned the conditions of border detention facilities.

"The group of women joining Ocasio-Cortez were Rashida Tlaib of Michigan, Ilhan Omar of Minnesota and Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts.

"Trump implied in the series of tweets that the congresswomen weren't born in America and sarcastically suggested, 'they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came.'

"Later Sunday, Ocasio-Cortez wrote on Twitter that the country she 'come(s) from' and 'swears to' is the US and suggested that Trump is 'angry because you can't conceive of an America that includes us.'"

I don't have a problem with that. Black people call themselves the N-word all the freakin time. If they can call themselves that, everyone should be able to.

Why is it only racists, when you decide it is racists, and not racists when you decide it isn't?



By the same racist "reasoning" Trump should go back to Germany.

That is not even logical.

Trump would have to immigrate to Germany, and start lecturing all Germans about how superior the American system is.

The only difference would then be that, America is actually better than Germany in most regards. We have more wealth. We have a higher standard of living. We have lower taxes. We have more material goods. And we are an economic leader, and we have are the lone super power in the world.

But Trump is not coming from say Sudan, a killing field crime ridden crap hole, and tell Americans that the US system social-economic system is so much worse, and if only we adopted the systems that don't work everywhere in the world, and use those systems here.

That is ridiculous, and what those women are doing.

 

[georgephillip]

george, teh commie you are sucking up to here, has admitted that he would like to see large percentages of his fellow americans lynched.

Got a link, Loon?

 

[Andylusion]

he is not authoritarian. that is just silly nonsense.

Trump is an authoritarian as evidenced by his view that violence is an extension of politics and his inability to grasp any relationship except as a zero-sum contest of domination; he is also a life-long con man with little regard for the law unless it works in his favor:

Trump Has Gone Full Authoritarian

"Trump has not exactly devoted his life to the principle of strict legal compliance.

"Put aside his long history of criminal behavior and associations that alone would forfeit any moral standing he might have. (Trump has personally stolen millions and millions of dollars through what the New York Times described as 'outright fraud,' in addition to numerous schemes that have been the subject of litigation, making him a far bigger thief than any looter.)

"Trump is eager to incite disorder in the streets and defiance of the law on his own behalf."

Trump is an authoritarian as evidenced by his view that violence is an extension of politics and his inability to grasp any relationship except as a zero-sum contest of domination; he is also a life-long con man with little regard for the law unless it works in his favor:

We just had some democrat groups, say openly, that the violence won't end until Trump is removed.

Who has a view that violence is an extension of politics? It's not Trump.

And as for little regard for the law, unless it works in his favor..... did you miss Seattle? What do you think that is? That's a bunch of left-wingers screaming about Trump, completely disregarding the law unless it works in their favor.

Hypocrite?

"Trump is eager to incite disorder in the streets and defiance of the law on his own behalf."

Did you miss the letter from the Seattle police?

Letter to City Council Regarding Council Ordinance 119805 – Crowd Control Tools - SPD Blotter

July 23, 2020Lorena González, President and Lisa Herbold, Public Safety ChairSeattle City Council, City Hall600 Fourth Ave, 2nd FloorSeattle, WA 98104 Re: City Council Ordinance 119805 – Crowd Control Tools Dear President González, Chairwoman Herbold, and Seattle City Council Members: SPD has...

spdblotter.seattle.gov

The Democrat City counsel made it impossible for police to stop riots and looting.

There is no clearly incitement to violence than essentially telling criminals.... the police can't stop you.

You guys are doing that. Not Trump.

 

[georgephillip]

Well, I am a conservative and I think we should try our best to ignore this environmental stuff that is going on. I am so conservative that I think we should go back to right before the dinosaurs went extinct. High levels of CO2 and no taxes.

How's the herd immunity going?

Are conservatives wearing masks in public?