Defining Conservatism

[Correll]

So much for the fundamentals of conservatism.

How quickly they abandoned fiscal conservatism and family values.
The religious right pretending Trump is a man of God is most disturbing

Pure whiplash. They jumped off that train the minute he began speaking on Escalator Day.

This is why I'm convinced that this is all bullshit. What they really want is a pugilistic, nationalistic, authoritarian strongman.

Trump is the absolute embodiment of that, and they're just delirious over him. So much so, that they'll completely ignore the buffoonery.

his nationalism is certainly a selling point.

as is his "pugilism". we need a fighter right now.


nothing wrong with either of those.


trump is not an "authoritarian strongman". that is just, you trolling a potentially good thread.

 

[kyzr]

There is no real question what Conservatism espouses; it has not changed since the days of Barry Goldwater.

• Economic freedom.
• Constitutionally-minimalist Federal Government,
• Traditional Judeo-Christian values,
• Fiscal conservatism,
• Strong defense,
• etc.

What happened was that Liberals (or use whatever other term you like) embarked on a decades-long campaign to buy the votes of American voters with government cash and benefits. The American people were (and are) too ignorant to see that this is not the rightful role of the Federal government. All they saw was that there were all sorts of goodies flowing out from Washington and this one group of people (Democrats/Liberals) was responsible for it.

Further, when Republicans tried to "right the ship" and curtail this spending (welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, housing subsidies, college grants and loans), ALL OF WHICH WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, as well as being fiscally irresponsible, the Liberals and the Media, ganged up on the Conservatives, calling them heartless, mean, stingy, racist, and cruel. This goes on at an accelerated pace to this very day.

Well, Conservative politicians are politicians first, and they understood that unless they got with the program of reckless taxpayer-funded giveaways, they would be riding their Conservative principles into the sunset and right out of office.

So today's Conservatives have put themselves in the untenable position of having to support outrageous and unconstitutional government spending, merely to have any chance of remaining in office. Which of course violates one of the core principles of Conservatism: Fiscal Responsibility.

Look at the current brouhaha about the Covid 19 giveaways. Where (the fuck) in the Constitution does Congress get the power to send out trillions of dollars indiscriminately to unemployed people to ease their pain? It is Constitutional and fiscally preposterous and catastrophically stupid. So the Conservatives/Republicans are in the absurd position of arguing to ONLY spend a couple trillion dollars that we don't have rather than more trillions of dollars that we don't have - and have no clue how we will ever pay for.

But one can never forget, this fight about Conservative VALUES must be ENTIRELY INTERNAL amongst those who consider themselves Conservatives. Democrats have no place in the discussion. They have long ago sold their figurative souls to the devil, so it is literally none of their business how Conservatives deal with the political reality of a voting population demanding free, unconstitutional goodies from Government, and promising to vote against anyone who is not on board.

1. Conservatism is dead. Voters rejected it long ago. Do you want to be an unemployed conservative, or an elected moderate/populist?
2. The fight now is between capitalism and socialism.
3. Trump found a "populist" message that got him elected, where he can appoint conservative judges. If socialists win they appoint "activist liberal judges"
4. So pick your poison, moderate populists, or liberal socialists.
5. The Never-Trumpers sold their souls to the devil, they might as well become democrats.

 

[Mac1958]

So much for the fundamentals of conservatism.

How quickly they abandoned fiscal conservatism and family values.
The religious right pretending Trump is a man of God is most disturbing

Pure whiplash. They jumped off that train the minute he began speaking on Escalator Day.

This is why I'm convinced that this is all bullshit. What they really want is a pugilistic, nationalistic, authoritarian strongman.

Trump is the absolute embodiment of that, and they're just delirious over him. So much so, that they'll completely ignore the buffoonery.

his nationalism is certainly a selling point.

as is his "pugilism". we need a fighter right now.


nothing wrong with either of those.


trump is not an "authoritarian strongman". that is just, you trolling a potentially good thread.

You people sure do whine about me a lot. Not buying your TrumpWorld justifications doesn't make me a troll. It just means that I'm not buying them.

If you don't like my posts, don't read them. This constant whining from you guys sure does get boring.

 

[gipper]

There is no real question what Conservatism espouses; it has not changed since the days of Barry Goldwater.

• Economic freedom.
• Constitutionally-minimalist Federal Government,
• Traditional Judeo-Christian values,
• Fiscal conservatism,
• Strong defense,
• etc.

What happened was that Liberals (or use whatever other term you like) embarked on a decades-long campaign to buy the votes of American voters with government cash and benefits. The American people were (and are) too ignorant to see that this is not the rightful role of the Federal government. All they saw was that there were all sorts of goodies flowing out from Washington and this one group of people (Democrats/Liberals) was responsible for it.

Further, when Republicans tried to "right the ship" and curtail this spending (welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, housing subsidies, college grants and loans), ALL OF WHICH WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, as well as being fiscally irresponsible, the Liberals and the Media, ganged up on the Conservatives, calling them heartless, mean, stingy, racist, and cruel. This goes on at an accelerated pace to this very day.

Well, Conservative politicians are politicians first, and they understood that unless they got with the program of reckless taxpayer-funded giveaways, they would be riding their Conservative principles into the sunset and right out of office.

So today's Conservatives have put themselves in the untenable position of having to support outrageous and unconstitutional government spending, merely to have any chance of remaining in office. Which of course violates one of the core principles of Conservatism: Fiscal Responsibility.

Look at the current brouhaha about the Covid 19 giveaways. Where (the fuck) in the Constitution does Congress get the power to send out trillions of dollars indiscriminately to unemployed people to ease their pain? It is Constitutional and fiscally preposterous and catastrophically stupid. So the Conservatives/Republicans are in the absurd position of arguing to ONLY spend a couple trillion dollars that we don't have rather than more trillions of dollars that we don't have - and have no clue how we will ever pay for.

But one can never forget, this fight about Conservative VALUES must be ENTIRELY INTERNAL amongst those who consider themselves Conservatives. Democrats have no place in the discussion. They have long ago sold their figurative souls to the devil, so it is literally none of their business how Conservatives deal with the political reality of a voting population demanding free, unconstitutional goodies from Government, and promising to vote against anyone who is not on board.

It sure has strayed far afield from your description.

 

[Correll]

So much for the fundamentals of conservatism.

How quickly they abandoned fiscal conservatism and family values.
The religious right pretending Trump is a man of God is most disturbing

Pure whiplash. They jumped off that train the minute he began speaking on Escalator Day.

This is why I'm convinced that this is all bullshit. What they really want is a pugilistic, nationalistic, authoritarian strongman.

Trump is the absolute embodiment of that, and they're just delirious over him. So much so, that they'll completely ignore the buffoonery.

his nationalism is certainly a selling point.

as is his "pugilism". we need a fighter right now.


nothing wrong with either of those.


trump is not an "authoritarian strongman". that is just, you trolling a potentially good thread.

You people sure do whine about me a lot. Not buying your TrumpWorld justifications doesn't make me a troll. It just means that I'm not buying them.

i responded to some points you made, seriously and honestly. you dismissing that, rudely as "whining" and "trumpworld", makes you a troll.

If you don't like my posts, don't read them. This constant whining from you guys sure does get boring.

you make political comments on a public discussion forum and then "whine" when people respond to your points?


the problem here is on your end, not ours.

 

[Mac1958]

So much for the fundamentals of conservatism.

How quickly they abandoned fiscal conservatism and family values.
The religious right pretending Trump is a man of God is most disturbing

Pure whiplash. They jumped off that train the minute he began speaking on Escalator Day.

This is why I'm convinced that this is all bullshit. What they really want is a pugilistic, nationalistic, authoritarian strongman.

Trump is the absolute embodiment of that, and they're just delirious over him. So much so, that they'll completely ignore the buffoonery.

his nationalism is certainly a selling point.

as is his "pugilism". we need a fighter right now.


nothing wrong with either of those.


trump is not an "authoritarian strongman". that is just, you trolling a potentially good thread.

You people sure do whine about me a lot. Not buying your TrumpWorld justifications doesn't make me a troll. It just means that I'm not buying them.

i responded to some points you made, seriously and honestly. you dismissing that, rudely as "whining" and "trumpworld", makes you a troll.

If you don't like my posts, don't read them. This constant whining from you guys sure does get boring.

you make political comments on a public discussion forum and then "whine" when people respond to your points?


the problem here is on your end, not ours.

Fantastic!

 

[j-mac]

Not sure how to define conservatism when the leader of the party, the President, is a hyper-Keynesian who doesn't even live by "conservative values". Maybe this is all just bullshit.

Looks to me like what conservatives really want is a pugilistic, nationalistic, authoritarian strongman. That's what they've got now and most of 'em adore him.

No, they don’t....And if you want “strongmen” ruling with iron fists, look no further than ‘the squad’....

All Trump wanted to do was to loosen the grip of regulation, stop the crushing flow of illegal immigration, and free up capital in business where the American dream could once again be realized. And, was well on his way to succeeding in that.

What is so wrong with that?

 

[Correll]

so, free trade? no the only way to be conservative. economic nationalism is not opposed to free trade.


are we agreed?

 

[Andylusion]

Support for the founding principals that made America a great nation. Fundamentals like work ethic, Christianity, moral values, and Family.

How does the election of Donald J Trump meet any of those criteria?
Conservatives sold out their values. I doubt they will ever get them back

Really? He supports deregulation. That was a founding principal.
He supports lower taxes. That was a founding principal.
He believe law enforcement. That was a founding principal.
Support for Israel, freedom of speech, law and order, right to bare arms.

What conservative value have I sold out?

 

[georgephillip]

Shouldn’t the question be what fucking authoritarianism are you talking about? And populism means what? Wishing for your country to be taken care of first? That’s populism and somehow bad?

Seriously? You're claiming to be ignorant of Trump's clumsy attempts at white supremacist inspired authoritarianism?

Trump Has Gone Full Authoritarian

"Trump has excited and cultivated the white-supremacist far right in ways no previous Republican president dared, and he has nurtured the pervasive sense of violent police impunity now on display in the streets.

"After the Obama administration built policies to repair the trust between police and urban communities, Trump tore them down contemptuously, restoring the practice of transferring used military equipment to police departments, which Obama had halted, and restricting the consent decrees Obama’s Department of Justice had signed with more than a dozen police departments.

"Appearing at a Trump rally this past fall, Minneapolis police-union president Bob Kroll gloated, 'The first thing President Trump did when he took office was turn that around, got rid of the Holder–Loretta Lynch regime, and decided to start taking — letting the cops do their job, put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of us.'"

 

[Andylusion]

Shouldn’t the question be what fucking authoritarianism are you talking about? And populism means what? Wishing for your country to be taken care of first? That’s populism and somehow bad?

Seriously? You're claiming to be ignorant of Trump's clumsy attempts at white supremacist inspired authoritarianism?

Trump Has Gone Full Authoritarian

"Trump has excited and cultivated the white-supremacist far right in ways no previous Republican president dared, and he has nurtured the pervasive sense of violent police impunity now on display in the streets.

"After the Obama administration built policies to repair the trust between police and urban communities, Trump tore them down contemptuously, restoring the practice of transferring used military equipment to police departments, which Obama had halted, and restricting the consent decrees Obama’s Department of Justice had signed with more than a dozen police departments.

"Appearing at a Trump rally this past fall, Minneapolis police-union president Bob Kroll gloated, 'The first thing President Trump did when he took office was turn that around, got rid of the Holder–Loretta Lynch regime, and decided to start taking — letting the cops do their job, put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of us.'"

Trump has excited and cultivated the white-supremacist far right in ways no previous Republican president dared, and he has nurtured the pervasive sense of violent police impunity now on display in the streets.

Opinion, not fact.

After the Obama administration built policies to repair the trust between police and urban communities

Opinion. Here are the facts....

Five Dallas Officers Were Killed as Payback, Police Chief Says (Published 2016)

The shooting rampage committed by Micah Johnson, 25, was described as the kind of retaliatory violence that people have feared for the last two years.

www.nytimes.com

Does that seem like Obama brought officers and communities together?

Does that look like officers and communities came together under Obama?

Police group director: Obama caused a 'war on cops'

William Johnson blamed President Obama for actions that have created a 'war on cops,' the National Association of Police Organizations' Executive Director said on Friday.

www.politico.com

"We want dead cops!"

Does that sound like Obama brought police and communities together?

Facts destroy your opinion. We're right. You are ignorant.

"Appearing at a Trump rally this past fall, Minneapolis police-union president Bob Kroll gloated, 'The first thing President Trump did when he took office was turn that around, got rid of the Holder–Loretta Lynch regime, and decided to start taking — letting the cops do their job, put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of us.'"

Yeah, and that is dead on right, and rightly so. It was the morally correct thing to do.

Your system, gets people killed.

Facts over opinion. We are right, and you are evil. Obama didn't bring anyone together. Obama routinely accused people of being racists against him, and routinely portrayed police badly, and criminals as good.

Facts over opinion.

 

[georgephillip]

Support for the founding principals that made America a great nation. Fundamentals like work ethic, Christianity, moral values, and Family.

Those founding principles also included white supremacy, genocide, and chattel slavery all evils the left has no problem condemning; what's holding conservatives back?


There's No Real Definition of 'Conservatism' and That's a Good Thing | The American Conservative

"The most important question for any conservative remains: what should be conserved?

"When Russell Kirk, the father of post-World War II conservatism, attempted to explain the meaning of the movement, he counseled against any ironclad definitions.

"Taking a term from the tradition of the Roman Catholic Church (of which he was not yet a member in 1953), Kirk argued that one should define conservatism in terms of 'canons' or tenets, rather than in terms of absolutes.

"In some writings, he offered four canons, in some five canons, and in some ten canons as he struggled with the meaning of conservatism. Most often, though, Kirk listed six."

 

[georgephillip]

rump has excited and cultivated the white-supremacist far right in ways no previous Republican president dared, and he has nurtured the pervasive sense of violent police impunity now on display in the streets.

Opinion, not fact.

Trump's support for white supremacy is unprecedented among recent presidents as this fact, NOT opinion proves:

White supremacists cheer Trump racist tweets

"President Donald Trump's racist comments about Democratic congresswomen have won him renewed support from white supremacists who had been losing faith that he was the hero they wanted to create a prospering White America.

"Trump told the four women of color that they should 'go back' to the 'crime infested places' they came from, even though three of the four were born in the US and the fourth is a naturalized citizen."

 

[Correll]

Shouldn’t the question be what fucking authoritarianism are you talking about? And populism means what? Wishing for your country to be taken care of first? That’s populism and somehow bad?

Seriously? You're claiming to be ignorant of Trump's clumsy attempts at white supremacist inspired authoritarianism?

Trump Has Gone Full Authoritarian

"Trump has excited and cultivated the white-supremacist far right in ways no previous Republican president dared, and he has nurtured the pervasive sense of violent police impunity now on display in the streets.

"After the Obama administration built policies to repair the trust between police and urban communities, Trump tore them down contemptuously, restoring the practice of transferring used military equipment to police departments, which Obama had halted, and restricting the consent decrees Obama’s Department of Justice had signed with more than a dozen police departments.

"Appearing at a Trump rally this past fall, Minneapolis police-union president Bob Kroll gloated, 'The first thing President Trump did when he took office was turn that around, got rid of the Holder–Loretta Lynch regime, and decided to start taking — letting the cops do their job, put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of us.'"

so, your strongest evidence of "ws authoritarianism" is that he gave the police used military equipment?


that is some serious weak ass shit.

 

[Mac1958]

Shouldn’t the question be what fucking authoritarianism are you talking about? And populism means what? Wishing for your country to be taken care of first? That’s populism and somehow bad?

Seriously? You're claiming to be ignorant of Trump's clumsy attempts at white supremacist inspired authoritarianism?

Trump Has Gone Full Authoritarian

"Trump has excited and cultivated the white-supremacist far right in ways no previous Republican president dared, and he has nurtured the pervasive sense of violent police impunity now on display in the streets.

"After the Obama administration built policies to repair the trust between police and urban communities, Trump tore them down contemptuously, restoring the practice of transferring used military equipment to police departments, which Obama had halted, and restricting the consent decrees Obama’s Department of Justice had signed with more than a dozen police departments.

"Appearing at a Trump rally this past fall, Minneapolis police-union president Bob Kroll gloated, 'The first thing President Trump did when he took office was turn that around, got rid of the Holder–Loretta Lynch regime, and decided to start taking — letting the cops do their job, put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of us.'"

Turns out, this is what they've wanted all along: A vulgar, pugilistic, nationalist authoritarian strongman. The "conservative values" crap was bullshit, the religion crap was bullshit, the fiscal conservatism crap was bullshit.

Now we know what they are and what they want.

 

[Correll]

rump has excited and cultivated the white-supremacist far right in ways no previous Republican president dared, and he has nurtured the pervasive sense of violent police impunity now on display in the streets.

Opinion, not fact.

Trump's support for white supremacy is unprecedented among recent presidents as this fact, NOT opinion proves:

White supremacists cheer Trump racist tweets

"President Donald Trump's racist comments about Democratic congresswomen have won him renewed support from white supremacists who had been losing faith that he was the hero they wanted to create a prospering White America.

"Trump told the four women of color that they should 'go back' to the 'crime infested places' they came from, even though three of the four were born in the US and the fourth is a naturalized citizen."

they, like you, are obviously anti-american commies traitors.

telling them to go back to where they came from, even if that is a generation or two removed, is completely appropriate, based on their anti-americanism.

 

[Correll]

Shouldn’t the question be what fucking authoritarianism are you talking about? And populism means what? Wishing for your country to be taken care of first? That’s populism and somehow bad?

Seriously? You're claiming to be ignorant of Trump's clumsy attempts at white supremacist inspired authoritarianism?

Trump Has Gone Full Authoritarian

"Trump has excited and cultivated the white-supremacist far right in ways no previous Republican president dared, and he has nurtured the pervasive sense of violent police impunity now on display in the streets.

"After the Obama administration built policies to repair the trust between police and urban communities, Trump tore them down contemptuously, restoring the practice of transferring used military equipment to police departments, which Obama had halted, and restricting the consent decrees Obama’s Department of Justice had signed with more than a dozen police departments.

"Appearing at a Trump rally this past fall, Minneapolis police-union president Bob Kroll gloated, 'The first thing President Trump did when he took office was turn that around, got rid of the Holder–Loretta Lynch regime, and decided to start taking — letting the cops do their job, put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of us.'"

Turns out, this is what they've wanted all along: A vulgar, pugilistic, nationalist authoritarian strongman. The "conservative values" crap was bullshit, the religion crap was bullshit, the fiscal conservatism crap was bullshit.

Now we know what they are and what they want.

you are being completely unreasonable. and divisive.


there is nothing wrong with being nationalistic nor, in this setting, pugilistic.


he is not authoritarian. that is just silly nonsense.

 

[Mac1958]

Shouldn’t the question be what fucking authoritarianism are you talking about? And populism means what? Wishing for your country to be taken care of first? That’s populism and somehow bad?

Seriously? You're claiming to be ignorant of Trump's clumsy attempts at white supremacist inspired authoritarianism?

Trump Has Gone Full Authoritarian

"Trump has excited and cultivated the white-supremacist far right in ways no previous Republican president dared, and he has nurtured the pervasive sense of violent police impunity now on display in the streets.

"After the Obama administration built policies to repair the trust between police and urban communities, Trump tore them down contemptuously, restoring the practice of transferring used military equipment to police departments, which Obama had halted, and restricting the consent decrees Obama’s Department of Justice had signed with more than a dozen police departments.

"Appearing at a Trump rally this past fall, Minneapolis police-union president Bob Kroll gloated, 'The first thing President Trump did when he took office was turn that around, got rid of the Holder–Loretta Lynch regime, and decided to start taking — letting the cops do their job, put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of us.'"

Turns out, this is what they've wanted all along: A vulgar, pugilistic, nationalist authoritarian strongman. The "conservative values" crap was bullshit, the religion crap was bullshit, the fiscal conservatism crap was bullshit.

Now we know what they are and what they want.

george, teh commie you are sucking up to here, has admitted that he would like to see large percentages of his fellow americans lynched.


and he has been very evasive about commie genocides in general, while being very much blaming all evil in history on "Capitalism".


he is, very likely, a hard core communist, who would be happy to see most of the republicans on this site, mass murdered.


that is not me using hyperbole. you should really think about who you are running with.

I know what I'm against now, and I know what I'll have to deal with later.

I don't need one of those two whacked out ends to point anything out for me.

 

[ErikViking]

Well, I am a conservative and I think we should try our best to ignore this environmental stuff that is going on. I am so conservative that I think we should go back to right before the dinosaurs went extinct. High levels of CO2 and no taxes.

 

[georgephillip]

Facts over opinion. We are right, and you are evil. Obama didn't bring anyone together. Obama routinely accused people of being racists against him, and routinely portrayed police badly, and criminals as good.

Obama recognized the obvious: some police officers view black and Hispanic people as prey, something Trump and many conservatives would likely endorse:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/06/nyregion/nyc-police-subway-racial-profiling.html

"'You are stopping too many Russian and Chinese,' one of the officers, Daniel Perez, recalled the commander telling him earlier this decade.

"Another officer, Aaron Diaz, recalled the same commander saying in 2012, 'You should write more black and Hispanic people.'"