Debt Ceiling Increase or Spending Cuts First?

[TemplarKormac]

Are you out of your mind? You just cited Wikipedia...and paraphrased it in your post. You have not blown me away.

In fact, I am pretty sure you did not read the link I cited for you. How could you know if it left wing interpretation.

"Or what is dubbed as "revisionist history"?" Man are you a word clown!

What do you know about Friedman? What country, besides this one, did he help **** over? Do you have a clue? You have 10 seconds to answer.

Go!

Your link is left wing revisionist history. I will not dare pollute my mind with that nonsense. Milton Friedman is a Misesian economist. He is responsible for singlehandedly changing governmental views on economics across the world. His protege was none other than Thomas Sowell, who himself singlehandedly countered and destroyed the Cloward-Piven strategy.

Please.

Pollute your mind? What is wrong with you? Are you afraid to read something?

More Wiki?

I asked you a question.

I answered it. Scared to admit defeat? It's pathetic, you cite one link, extol it, and then do nothing to back it up. You don't even quote it. I didn't cite wiki there, dumbass. That little blurb is all from memory.

 

[Geaux4it]

Anyone that wants default, wants higher interest payments on their credit cards, higher mortgage rates on their house payments, higher interest rates on their car payments, higher utility bills, and double the price of everything they buy, like food, gas and all your Christmas gifts. Plus, you'll probably lose your job.

Only complete morons are for default.

We already got higher rates on our credit cards when in 2009 Obama had one of his first blunders.

2009 Credit Card Act

All the stupid rules to help the poor dumbtards who were not paying on time, our could not understand their bill, caused those of us paying on time more money.

Fricking libs just don't get that the cost of these changes was passed on to the consumer. My rates INCREASED to cover the lack of money the credit card companies lost as a result of the reform

Once again, wealth re- distribution

-Geaux

Credit CARD Act: One Year Later, How's It Going? - DailyFinance

New Fees, Higher Rates

So, now how is credit card landscape shaping up? "New fees have emerged as a way to make up revenue, including foreign transaction fees, inactivity fees and minimum finance charges," says Ken Lin, CEO of Credit Karma, which offers free credit scores. Alliance Data Systems, which issues private-label cards for retailers, had recently started charging customers $1 per month to receive statements by mail but has since suspended the fee.

Interest rates have risen, from an average of just above 13% to 14.7% now, says Dworkin.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Oh, and I did investigate your link. Dollars and Sense espouses economic activism. You really need to do better than that.

 

[Seawytch]

Raise the debt ceiling before oct 17th..........period......

ALL ELSE DOES NOT MATTER....

IF OUR CREDIT RATING GETS LOWERED OR WE DEFAULT,

THEN YOU HAVE RUINED YOUR LIFE, YOUR CHILDREN'S LIVES, YOUR GRAND CHILDREN'S LIVES AND THE LIVES OF YOUR GRAND CHILDREN'S GREAT GRAND CHILDREN....

we will be paying over a trillion to 2 trillion a year on the same debt we are paying $400 billion in interest a year now....our tax rates will skyrocket for the next 200 years just to pay for the interest on the debt being so high with a default....ALL of those taxes we pay will go to NOTHING in the USA or for citizens, all will go to paying just the interest on the debt, no military no NOTHING....

You are so ignorant, all of you will bring our first world nation to a third world country and increase our debt beyond anywhere that it could have gotten with the rate of spending now, through the rise in the USA's interest rate on the money we've borrowed.

The ENTIRE WORLD relies on the full faith and credit of the USA....

who would have thunk the Great Tribulation would have been brought on by a handful of ignorant and yes stupid so called conservatives.....even I can see now that you are a disgrace to humankind for not using your God given brains.

you piss me off because of your WILLFUL IGNORANCE.

This is NOT a game you are playing with, this is our LIVES and our NATION you are dicking with!

Open the government too. "Deficit Hawks" my ass. The shutdown costs the government, every day, the net worth of Beyoncé.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Your link is left wing revisionist history. I will not dare pollute my mind with that nonsense. Milton Friedman is a Misesian economist. He is responsible for singlehandedly changing governmental views on economics across the world. His protege was none other than Thomas Sowell, who himself singlehandedly countered and destroyed the Cloward-Piven strategy.

Please.

Pollute your mind? What is wrong with you? Are you afraid to read something?

More Wiki?

I asked you a question.

I answered it. Scared to admit defeat? It's pathetic, you cite one link, extol it, and then do nothing to back it up. You don't even quote it. I didn't cite wiki there, dumbass. That little blurb is all from memory.

What is from memory? This?

"Milton Friedman is a Misesian economist. He is responsible for singlehandedly changing governmental views on economics across the world. His protege was none other than Thomas Sowell, who himself singlehandedly countered and destroyed the Cloward-Piven strategy."

Now THAT is impressive.

By the way...your list above does not include the nation that Friedman famously helped fucked over. A Friedman scholar would know this. How can you not know it?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Given our enormous spending problem and our looming debt ceiling crisis, I was wondering, what should happen? Should we raise the debt ceiling and discuss spending cuts, or should we cut spending first before we raise the debt ceiling?

Since your statement above acknowledges that a debt ceiling CRISIS is looming, you've pretty much answered your own question,

unless of course you want a debt ceiling CRISIS to occur, with all that implies.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Take a chainsaw to the budget. Slash EVERYTHING.

That would really work out well eh? How much you want to cut? How many jobs you want to eliminate? Be specific (or are you a t bagger? Not much on specifics but big on cuts.)

Hey Temple. IF you would get a job, receipts to the Treasury would go up. A little. But every little bit of money helps.

But seeing as how you have time on your hands to contemplate these serious matters, please explain what YOU think will be the benefit of defaulting on our debt and cutting our spending dramatically.

Cut all non-military programs 30%, cut all military budgets 50%. Close all overseas military bases. The money SIMPLY IS NOT THERE!

 

[eagle1462010]

Raise the debt ceiling before oct 17th..........period......

ALL ELSE DOES NOT MATTER....

IF OUR CREDIT RATING GETS LOWERED OR WE DEFAULT,

THEN YOU HAVE RUINED YOUR LIFE, YOUR CHILDREN'S LIVES, YOUR GRAND CHILDREN'S LIVES AND THE LIVES OF YOUR GRAND CHILDREN'S GREAT GRAND CHILDREN....

we will be paying over a trillion to 2 trillion a year on the same debt we are paying $400 billion in interest a year now....our tax rates will skyrocket for the next 200 years just to pay for the interest on the debt being so high with a default....ALL of those taxes we pay will go to NOTHING in the USA or for citizens, all will go to paying just the interest on the debt, no military no NOTHING....

You are so ignorant, all of you will bring our first world nation to a third world country and increase our debt beyond anywhere that it could have gotten with the rate of spending now, through the rise in the USA's interest rate on the money we've borrowed.

The ENTIRE WORLD relies on the full faith and credit of the USA....

who would have thunk the Great Tribulation would have been brought on by a handful of ignorant and yes stupid so called conservatives.....even I can see now that you are a disgrace to humankind for not using your God given brains.

you piss me off because of your WILLFUL IGNORANCE.

This is NOT a game you are playing with, this is our LIVES and our NATION you are dicking with!

1. We only default if Obama and the Treasury don't prioritize the bills. The 30 BILLION due on the interest on the debt is the issue in your post. We currently take in roughly 220 BILLION A MONTH in revenues.

If we DEFAULT ON the DEBT, it will be ON PURPOSE by the Treasury Dept.

2. The Treasury has been cooking the books to prolong this debate since May. Why are we having this debate now instead of last May when the CR ended...............This is a staged play and you are promoting the FEAR TACTICS required of the Liberal Brigade.

3. We should have passed Yearly budgets instead of temp ones. The Dems have proposed budgets but HAVE REFUSED TO NEGOTIATE ON LIMITS ON BUDGETS. The GOP has demanded REAL CUTS, and the Dems have OPENLY REFUSED NEGOTIATION until the Ceilings are reached. Purposely delaying the debate via cooking the books, so we now OWE BACK PAYMENTS because of Creative Accounting Measures.

4. Obama has increased the number of Federal Employees by 300,000 since he came into office.

5. Obama intends to increase that number by another 200,000 before he leaves primarily because of the ACA.

6. Obama and the Dems have increased Medicaid under the ACA for States that have chosen to increase it. Greatly expanding it with Massive DEBT INCREASES as a result. They state that eventually they will pay 90% of these extra increases. Problem is the individuals, and Businesses will PAY FOR IT.

7. 41% of the GDP goes to pay for Federal, State, and Local Gov't. Leaving less Private Sector to pay for the damn thing.

8. Your DOOMS DAY SCENARIO, which is FEAR TACTICS to GET YOUR WAY, is the SAME SCENARIO if we continue down this path. Eventually the largest Gov't expenditure will be the PAYMENTS ON INTEREST ON THE DEBT. The longer we wait to deal with it, the worse it gets.

9. The Dollars value is dropping significantly, forcing prices to go up and this HURTS EVERY AMERICAN including those you claim to support. The Fiat Money machine needs to end.

10. We need to live within our means, and end this cycle of DEBT to ensure that we have a stable economy for our kids and their kids. One side is FIGHTING TO END IT, while the OTHER IS ADDICTED TO GOV'T AND DEBT. Both sides have increased the debt, BUT NEITHER IS WILLING TO MAKE THE NECESSARY CUTS to END THIS.

Finally, this is what this fight is about. Less Gov't versus more Gov't. Conservatism versus the Statist. One side sees the reality of where we are going, and the other increases Gov't in a time that we shouldn't be increasing it at all.

One side offers CUTS, the other side offers TAXES.

One side offers SOLUTIONS, the other side complains about those Solutions and offers taxes again.

There are 2 sides to every fight. I choose the side for less Gov't and an end of FISCAL INSANITY. This is a fight that is for the FUTURE OF OUR CHILDREN. If you choose the STATIST SIDE............................

I'll fight you until HELL FREEZES OVER AND THEN I'LL FIGHT YOU ON THE ICE.

 

[Seawytch]

Anyone that wants default, wants higher interest payments on their credit cards, higher mortgage rates on their house payments, higher interest rates on their car payments, higher utility bills, and double the price of everything they buy, like food, gas and all your Christmas gifts. Plus, you'll probably lose your job.

Only complete morons are for default.

We already got higher rates on our credit cards when in 2009 Obama had one of his first blunders.

2009 Credit Card Act

All the stupid rules to help the poor dumbtards who were not paying on time, our could not understand their bill, caused those of us paying on time more money.

Fricking libs just don't get that the cost of these changes was passed on to the consumer. My rates INCREASED to cover the lack of money the credit card companies lost as a result of the reform

Once again, wealth re- distribution

-Geaux

Credit CARD Act: One Year Later, How's It Going? - DailyFinance

New Fees, Higher Rates

So, now how is credit card landscape shaping up? "New fees have emerged as a way to make up revenue, including foreign transaction fees, inactivity fees and minimum finance charges," says Ken Lin, CEO of Credit Karma, which offers free credit scores. Alliance Data Systems, which issues private-label cards for retailers, had recently started charging customers $1 per month to receive statements by mail but has since suspended the fee.

Interest rates have risen, from an average of just above 13% to 14.7% now, says Dworkin.

And now the rest of the story...

Credit cards show how regulatory reform can work

Thanks to reforms from the 2009 CARD Act reforms, American consumers last year saved $1.5 billion on lower late fees and $2.5 billion from new restrictions on fees charged for going over your credit limit.

Perhaps best of all, stringent requirements on credit cards for those under age 21 has resulted in the percentage of 18 to 20-year-olds with a credit card account dropping by half.[...]

"When JD Power released its 2013 U.S. Credit Card Satisfaction Study, it showed credit card satisfaction at an all-time high since the study was first conducted," CFPB Director Richard Cordray said last week. "JD Power attributed some of that satisfaction to the CARD Act."​

 

[hangover]

Once again, wealth re- distribution

Ah, the lament of the greedy. Wah! What a great excuse to double the price of everything. Like a child that breaks all his toys, because he's mad at mommy. Wah!

 

[TemplarKormac]

Given our enormous spending problem and our looming debt ceiling crisis, I was wondering, what should happen? Should we raise the debt ceiling and discuss spending cuts, or should we cut spending first before we raise the debt ceiling?

Since your statement above acknowledges that a debt ceiling CRISIS is looming, you've pretty much answered your own question,

unless of course you want a debt ceiling CRISIS to occur, with all that implies.

You read too much into my statements, Carbine. Yours is a false dilemma argument which implies I wish for there to be a crisis. By repeatedly raising the debt ceiling, you are merely postponing a crisis, not negating it. That within itself will create a crisis altogether on its own. By reducing spending and paying down the debt, there will be no more need for this "debt ceiling."

 

[NYcarbineer]

Since 2/3rds of our budget is mandatory spending, and since 1/3rd of our spending is borrowed and thus adding to the debt,

in order to stay at the current debt ceiling we would effectively have to eliminate all discretionary spending,

unless we repeal or revise the laws that mandate the mandatory spending.

I would argue (as my personal opinion) that Congress and the President are legally obligated to raise the debt ceiling because they are obligated by law to fund all mandatory spending.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Pollute your mind? What is wrong with you? Are you afraid to read something?

More Wiki?

I asked you a question.

I answered it. Scared to admit defeat? It's pathetic, you cite one link, extol it, and then do nothing to back it up. You don't even quote it. I didn't cite wiki there, dumbass. That little blurb is all from memory.

What is from memory? This?

"Milton Friedman is a Misesian economist. He is responsible for singlehandedly changing governmental views on economics across the world. His protege was none other than Thomas Sowell, who himself singlehandedly countered and destroyed the Cloward-Piven strategy."

Now THAT is impressive.

By the way...your list above does not include the nation that Friedman famously helped fucked over. A Friedman scholar would know this. How can you not know it?

You keep insisting he "fucked over" someone. Name them. Or dispense with your self aggrandizement.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Since 2/3rds of our budget is mandatory spending, and since 1/3rd of our spending is borrowed and thus adding to the debt,

in order to stay at the current debt ceiling we would effectively have to eliminate all discretionary spending,

unless we repeal or revise the laws that mandate the mandatory spending.

I would argue (as my personal opinion) that Congress and the President are legally obligated to raise the debt ceiling because they are obligated by law to fund all mandatory spending.

Mandatory spending? Such as? Define what is "mandatory" in your mind, Carbine?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Given our enormous spending problem and our looming debt ceiling crisis, I was wondering, what should happen? Should we raise the debt ceiling and discuss spending cuts, or should we cut spending first before we raise the debt ceiling?

Since your statement above acknowledges that a debt ceiling CRISIS is looming, you've pretty much answered your own question,

unless of course you want a debt ceiling CRISIS to occur, with all that implies.

You read too much into my statements, Carbine. Yours is a false dilemma argument which implies I wish for there to be a crisis. By repeatedly raising the debt ceiling, you are merely avoiding a crisis, not negating it. That within itself will create a crisis altogether on its own.

You're the one who called it a crisis. If you are willing to make raising or not raising the debt ceiling a negotiable item, then you are saying you are willing to see the debt ceiling NOT be raised if negotiations don't go in the way you want them.

That may not mean you wish for a debt ceiling crisis, but it does mean you've put it on the table as a possible outcome you're willing to accept.

I, in contrast, don't believe it should be on the table at all. Period.

 

[percysunshine]

Since 2/3rds of our budget is mandatory spending, and since 1/3rd of our spending is borrowed and thus adding to the debt,

in order to stay at the current debt ceiling we would effectively have to eliminate all discretionary spending,

unless we repeal or revise the laws that mandate the mandatory spending.

I would argue (as my personal opinion) that Congress and the President are legally obligated to raise the debt ceiling because they are obligated by law to fund all mandatory spending.

Congress writes the laws. How can they be constrained by what they themselves create? They are only legally constrained by the Constitution, and the President is only relevant if they have not written a veto proof law.

That is the theory anyway. Who knows what Obama will do.

 

[zeke]

Take a chainsaw to the budget. Slash EVERYTHING.

That would really work out well eh? How much you want to cut? How many jobs you want to eliminate? Be specific (or are you a t bagger? Not much on specifics but big on cuts.)

Hey Temple. IF you would get a job, receipts to the Treasury would go up. A little. But every little bit of money helps.

But seeing as how you have time on your hands to contemplate these serious matters, please explain what YOU think will be the benefit of defaulting on our debt and cutting our spending dramatically.

Cut all non-military programs 30%, cut all military budgets 50%. Close all overseas military bases. The money SIMPLY IS NOT THERE!

Hey, surprised me. Now that the amount of "cuts" have been identified, let me ask you a follow up question. What (do you think) will happen to our economy when hundreds of billions of dollars are taken out of the economy? Effect on UE, GDP, etc.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Since your statement above acknowledges that a debt ceiling CRISIS is looming, you've pretty much answered your own question,

unless of course you want a debt ceiling CRISIS to occur, with all that implies.

You read too much into my statements, Carbine. Yours is a false dilemma argument which implies I wish for there to be a crisis. By repeatedly raising the debt ceiling, you are merely avoiding a crisis, not negating it. That within itself will create a crisis altogether on its own.

You're the one who called it a crisis. If you are willing to make raising or not raising the debt ceiling a negotiable item, then you are saying you are willing to see the debt ceiling NOT be raised if negotiations don't go in the way you want them.

That may not mean you wish for a debt ceiling crisis, but it does mean you've put it on the table as a possible outcome you're willing to accept.

I, in contrast, don't believe it should be on the table at all. Period.

I am not willing to accept any outcome which results in a crisis of any kind, Carbine. I call it a crisis merely because it is the common vernacular used in this type of debate. "Crisis" is merely an objective term. Nothing more. And now you are resorting to a circumstantial ad hominem attack to substantiate your own argument.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I answered it. Scared to admit defeat? It's pathetic, you cite one link, extol it, and then do nothing to back it up. You don't even quote it. I didn't cite wiki there, dumbass. That little blurb is all from memory.

What is from memory? This?

"Milton Friedman is a Misesian economist. He is responsible for singlehandedly changing governmental views on economics across the world. His protege was none other than Thomas Sowell, who himself singlehandedly countered and destroyed the Cloward-Piven strategy."

Now THAT is impressive.

By the way...your list above does not include the nation that Friedman famously helped fucked over. A Friedman scholar would know this. How can you not know it?

You keep insisting he "fucked over" someone. Name them. Or dispense with your self aggrandizement.

Hmmm. You don't know, do you?

You should google this:

"What country did Milton Friedman help ruin?"

It will pop up. Then you can ask yourself how an economics scholar such as yourself has never heard of this before.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Since 2/3rds of our budget is mandatory spending, and since 1/3rd of our spending is borrowed and thus adding to the debt,

in order to stay at the current debt ceiling we would effectively have to eliminate all discretionary spending,

unless we repeal or revise the laws that mandate the mandatory spending.

I would argue (as my personal opinion) that Congress and the President are legally obligated to raise the debt ceiling because they are obligated by law to fund all mandatory spending.

Mandatory spending? Such as? Define what is "mandatory" in your mind, Carbine?

It's not a definition 'in my mind', it's a standard term, well defined.

I suggest you read this, a comparison of mandatory and discretionary spending:

Discretionary spending (vs. Mandatory spending) » Comeback America Initiative

You can click the highlighted 'mandatory spending' for its definition.