Debate With Atheists/Leftists is Futile

[zaangalewa]

I've not seen one piece of evidence that a God exists.

The universe.

That's ridiculous.

How does the universe act as a piece of evidence for God?

Without to use the word "evidence". Why exists something? Is this not strange? ...

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, we don't know the universe had a beginning.

Yea, we pretty much do. The expansion of the universe certainly indicates a beginning. You claim to be an agnostic but embrace any theory as long as it excludes a creator. You have an agenda and you don't engage in honest, genuine, discussion.

No, we don't.

No, the expansion of the universe SUGGESTS that all this matter and stuff came into being from a similar point.

Problem is we don't know the SHAPE of the universe, we don't how time/gravity impacts this, we don't know almost EVERYTHING about what's happening.

We just guess. We do make educated guesses, but they're often based on human perspective, when the reality is what's really going on is probably far, far, far beyond our comprehension.

I didn't say I embraced any theory. You seriously need to read what the fuck I write.

"the Big Bang might not have been the beginning."

Do you understand the grammar of "might not have been"?

Does that sound like someone embracing a theory? Fuck sakes.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It's not "plainly obvious we have a creator"

It's plainly obvious unless you've been blinded as discussed in 2 Corinthians 4:4.

Yes, it's plainly obvious to people who are making shit up that their made up shit is real.

For the rest of the world.....

The first question I asked was evidence of God. You said the universe. So far NOTHING you've said is evidence of this, UNLESS you BELIEVE it is.

It's like saying an apple is evidence that Papa Smurf diddle Baby Smurf. And the only way that apple is evidence for this crime, is if you ALREADY BELIEVE PAPA SMURF IS GUILTY.

Sorry, I'm not playing the game where for you to be right, we have to BELIEVE (ie, accept made up shit) what you believe.

Believing is NOT EVIDENCE.

 

[K9Buck]

The first question I asked was evidence of God.

The universe. Life. Your existence. The "evidence" is overwhelming, but you simply won't accept any of it. So be it. Have a great day!

 

[frigidweirdo]

The first question I asked was evidence of God.

The universe. Life. Your existence. The "evidence" is overwhelming, but you simply won't accept any of it. So be it. Have a great day!

Potatoes are evidence of potato trees.

Essentially this is you argument.


Now you can see why "Debate With Atheists/Leftists is Futile"

Because they don't just accept your made up stuff.

You have no idea what the universe is. But you're just insisting that you do. Incredible.

But you blame leftists for it being futile. Even more incredible.

YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE.

 

[Hollie]

It takes a complete imbecile to debate theology.......which is nothing more than the science of fantasy.

Call me an imbecile, because for all of it's (sic) hypocrisy, lies, and fantastical, delusional imagery.......I love to debate theology. I love theological based movies as well. The fact that some human minds can be so easily duped, brainwashed, and controlled, has always fascinates (sic) me to no end!!

Go from the presence of a foolish man. (Who can't write simple grammar, and claims intellectual mantle.)

My Ignore List just grew by you.

ciao brutto

Hard to imagine anyone wanting to join a club with angry, self-hating people like you.

It's time to add you to the list too.

Thanks. You can join your friend who enters a public message board thinking his Jimmy Swaggert style Bible thumping will be accepted without questioning.

 

[expat_panama]

Perhaps the question we need to look at is the actual nature of this "creator"

I believe that God is a very loving being. But I also believe that he put us here in this not-so-loving environment so that we can learn about hate and evil. Not only do we have our own experiences, but we can also learn from the experiences of hers. Upon dying, I believe that we go through additional learning and "purifying" in order that we can enter into Heaven and be with God himself. Many Christians, however, do NOT believe that there is any purifying process.

I also believe that God intentionally makes it unclear to us if he even exists so that we can be free to be good or bad. After all, most people know how to act when all eyes are upon them. It's what people do in the dark, when they believe nobody is watching, that demonstrates if they are truly a good person, or not.

thanks for coming back to me, and thanks for simply stating u believe in God because that "fast-fowards" us in our convo. would u be willing to say ur a Christian or is it some other group? fwiw, I accept the Christ and all he said but that's another long story...

 

[expat_panama]

Perhaps the question we need to look at is the actual nature of this "creator"

I believe that God is a very loving being. But I also believe that he put us here in this not-so-loving environment so that we can learn about hate and evil. Not only do we have our own experiences, but we can also learn from the experiences of hers. Upon dying, I believe that we go through additional learning and "purifying" in order that we can enter into Heaven and be with God himself. Many Christians, however, do NOT believe that there is any purifying process.

I also believe that God intentionally makes it unclear to us if he even exists so that we can be free to be good or bad. After all, most people know how to act when all eyes are upon them. It's what people do in the dark, when they believe nobody is watching, that demonstrates if they are truly a good person, or not.

God is so loving, that he made animals eat each other.... er..... if that's "love" then I'd hate to see hate.

--and that makes a lot of sense if ur a hateful person and hate is your way of life. My bet is that there's probably a lot more going on here but in case this is all there is to it please be aware that many of us are not so filled w/ hate and we see a LOT of good around us.

 

[K9Buck]

Perhaps the question we need to look at is the actual nature of this "creator"

I believe that God is a very loving being. But I also believe that he put us here in this not-so-loving environment so that we can learn about hate and evil. Not only do we have our own experiences, but we can also learn from the experiences of hers. Upon dying, I believe that we go through additional learning and "purifying" in order that we can enter into Heaven and be with God himself. Many Christians, however, do NOT believe that there is any purifying process.

I also believe that God intentionally makes it unclear to us if he even exists so that we can be free to be good or bad. After all, most people know how to act when all eyes are upon them. It's what people do in the dark, when they believe nobody is watching, that demonstrates if they are truly a good person, or not.

thanks for coming back to me, and thanks for simply stating u believe in God because that "fast-fowards" us in our convo. would u be willing to say ur a Christian or is it some other group? fwiw, I accept the Christ and all he said but that's another long story...

Yes, I am a Christian, a very flawed and struggling Christian, but a Christian nonetheless.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Perhaps the question we need to look at is the actual nature of this "creator"

I believe that God is a very loving being. But I also believe that he put us here in this not-so-loving environment so that we can learn about hate and evil. Not only do we have our own experiences, but we can also learn from the experiences of hers. Upon dying, I believe that we go through additional learning and "purifying" in order that we can enter into Heaven and be with God himself. Many Christians, however, do NOT believe that there is any purifying process.

I also believe that God intentionally makes it unclear to us if he even exists so that we can be free to be good or bad. After all, most people know how to act when all eyes are upon them. It's what people do in the dark, when they believe nobody is watching, that demonstrates if they are truly a good person, or not.

God is so loving, that he made animals eat each other.... er..... if that's "love" then I'd hate to see hate.

--and that makes a lot of sense if ur a hateful person and hate is your way of life. My bet is that there's probably a lot more going on here but in case this is all there is to it please be aware that many of us are not so filled w/ hate and we see a LOT of good around us.

What a weird response.

 

[Blues Man]

That's ridiculous. How does the universe act as a piece of evidence for God?

It's ridiculous? LOL. If you and I were hiking in a forest and came upon a beautiful mansion, I would correctly say that the mansion had (obviously) a builder, aka "creator". But you, being the blind atheist, would refute my claim and argue that we don't know that the mansion had a builder. You would claim that the mansion built itself. Thanks for the laugh!

Not the best analogy.

We understand how stellar bodies form how stars ignite and die and all of those processes follow very well known and proven formulas.

There is no evidence that any god is responsible for every star that winks into existence.

A mansion on the other hand is something that cannot exist naturally.

While it is true that we don't know what happened the second before the universe came to be I don't see the need to proclaim that a god did it simply because we don't have a better answer.

We don't know what happened and we may never know what happened in the microseconds before the universe came to be. In fact I think we may be incapable of understanding the processes because our brains are incapable of processing or even imagining that information.

My dogs will never comprehend prime numbers because their brains are incapable of that type of thought. Now given that our brains and a dog's brain are basically made up of the same stuff doesn't it make sense that our brains may have limitations as well?

 

[Blues Man]

God is so loving, that he made animals eat each other.... er..... if that's "love" then I'd hate to see hate.

You're presuming that, if there is a creator, he is a hateful being. Why do you assume to know such things?

I'm not assuming anything. Firstly I'm not assuming there is a creator.

What I'm saying is God always has HUMAN characteristics. And because of this, we can more or less see that God is a HUMAN CONSTRUCT, rather than a thing that exists out there.

When we talk about "hate", it's from a human perspective, not from any other perspective.

We think killing is wrong. But there are many, many exceptions to our list.

Because we see it from a human perspective. We couldn't give a damn about chickens because we can't humanize them. But cats, well, we personify them all the time.

The evolution of gods is fascinating.

As our intelligence increased humans actually had more capacity for thought than they did actual knowledge of their environment. That capacity allowed for imagination.

When confronted with a natural phenomenon that wasn't understood and realizing that they themselves could make some things happen but not others such as lightning or rain it seems obvious that primitive people would think that someone or something had to make those natural phenomena happen and that that something or someone had to be stronger and smarter (more powerful) than they were.

We invented gods to fill that role.

 

[Blues Man]

The first question I asked was evidence of God.

The universe. Life. Your existence. The "evidence" is overwhelming, but you simply won't accept any of it. So be it. Have a great day!

Just because we don't have all the answers to all the questions is itself not proof of gods

 

[zaangalewa]

The first question I asked was evidence of God.

The universe. Life. Your existence. The "evidence" is overwhelming, but you simply won't accept any of it. So be it. Have a great day!

Potatoes are evidence of potato trees.

In the words of the theory of evolution: Potatoes are the evidence that something exists wherein fit potatoes. Your shopping bag for example.

 

[zaangalewa]

The first question I asked was evidence of God.

The universe. Life. Your existence. The "evidence" is overwhelming, but you simply won't accept any of it. So be it. Have a great day!

Just because we don't have all the answers to all the questions is itself not proof of gods

God! - and we Chrisrtains know the arguments of monotheists against gods - we made a big part of it on our own.

 

[Blues Man]

The first question I asked was evidence of God.

The universe. Life. Your existence. The "evidence" is overwhelming, but you simply won't accept any of it. So be it. Have a great day!

Just because we don't have all the answers to all the questions is itself not proof of gods

God! - and we Chrisrtains know the arguments of monotheists against gods - we made a big part of it on our own.

I say gods because we as humans have had many gods.

The thing is we have explained most of the other gods away as we came to understand the natural world. We know what causes thunder, earthquakes and rain etc. We understand reproduction and birth. We no longer need gods to explain these things so we discarded those gods.

The 2 really big things we cannot answer with any certainty now is what happened just before the universe came to be and what happens to the self after we die.

So we still have people believing in a god to explain those.

 

[zaangalewa]

Oh by the way ChemEngineer. Why do you do the nonsense which you do? In Mt 5,22 you have to place a [godless] in front of the word "fool" then you'll hopefully able to understand what's the real problem. I like to say to you: Try to avoid to make such mad discussions in the name of Christ. Most Christians are not able to say a lot in such discussions as long as they respect the own rules and limitations. You heat only a totally senseless form of anger and hate against the people who believe in god.

 

[zaangalewa]

The first question I asked was evidence of God.

The universe. Life. Your existence. The "evidence" is overwhelming, but you simply won't accept any of it. So be it. Have a great day!

Just because we don't have all the answers to all the questions is itself not proof of gods

God! - and we Chrisrtains know the arguments of monotheists against gods - we made a big part of it on our own.

I say gods because we as humans have had many gods.

But gods and god is not comparable. It are totally different ... hmm ... "things" = ways to 'think'. Even the Hinduists see in gods only a single manifestation of god.

The thing is we have explained most of the other gods away as we came to understand the natural world.

natural world = creation of all 'visible' things (things which are in interaction)

We know what causes thunder,

Do I?

earthquakes and rain etc. We understand reproduction and birth.

Do we?

We no longer need gods to explain these things so we discarded those gods.

I don't know who your "we" is . I am for sure not a part of this what you call "we". The wonder of a birth keeps to be the wonder of a birth - although some know perhaps a little more today ... or other things ... than people knew 100 or 1000 or 10,000 years ago. What has this to do with the belief in god? The wonder of life keeps to be a wonder completelly independent how much we know about the wonder of life.

The 2 really big things we cannot answer with any certainty now is what happened just before the universe came to be

It existed no time "before" the creation started to exist. The mighty word of creation is a timeless word said Augustinus 1700 years ago. He said the question what was "before" is a senseless question. Same say today most phycicists.

and what happens to the self after we die.

Nothing. We are dead. If we are lucky god will call us back in this what I often called falsely "the end of time" because I thought everyone knows that such a formula is only a picture.

So we still have people believing in a god to explain those.

To believe in which god to explain what? A mother who lost her baby needs not to know which evil god had done this. She needs to know that god loves her, although such a terrible thing did happen to her. It's not good to be alone in such a situation - and in many, many, many other situations. And "knowledge" is in such situations ... okay ... it is not superflous - but it is also not the most important key in many cases of life.

 

[ChemEngineer]

No, we don't know the universe had a beginning.

Yea, we pretty much do. The expansion of the universe certainly indicates a beginning. You claim to be an agnostic but embrace any theory as long as it excludes a creator. You have an agenda and you don't engage in honest, genuine, discussion.

The title of this thread says it is futile to engage atheists, yet you persist in doing just that - casting pearls before swine, answering a fool according to his folly.

 

[ChemEngineer]

Yes, I am a Christian, a very flawed and struggling Christian, but a Christian nonetheless.

See, if you renounce God and become a *brilliant* and *perfect* atheist, then you will of course be the smartest being in the universe. No more struggles.