Crucifixion: What Did 1st Century Christians Believe?

[Ancient lion]

It has puzzled Christ-worshippers why the Quran in very strong words says that Jesus (p) was not crucified:

“And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger – they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.” – Quran 157-158 (Pickthall Translation)​

Most Christians have regarded this ayah to be contrary and in conflict with what their version of the New Testament states. Their belief in the crucifixion is the cornerstone of their faith.

Ignatius (35 – 107) was the bishop of Antioch. In the year 107 (or 108) he was arrested by the Romans and subsequently taken away to Rome. In between his incarceration and his death in around 107 (or 108), Ignatius wrote a series of letters in which he attacked other Christian groups as a result of them holding on to beliefs which were contrary to his own.
One letter was the following:

2I urge you, do not do things in cliques, but act as Christ’s disciples. When I heard some people saying, “IF I DON’T FIND IT IN THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS, I DON’T BELIEVE IT IN THE GOSPEL,” I answered them, “But it is written there.” They retorted, “That’s just the question.”254 To my mind it is Jesus Christ who is the original documents. The inviolable archives are his CROSS AND DEATH AND HIS RESURRECTION AND THE FAITH THAT CAME BY HIM. It is by these things and through your prayers that I want to be justified. (Early Christian Fathers [Grand Rapids, MI: Christian Classics Ethereal Library] by Richardson, Cyril C. (1909-1976), page 96)​

This group is arguing that if what Ignatius believes in is not found in the “original documents”, they will not believe the gospel which Ignatius basis his faith on.

Few facts here:

1. Ignatius here is arguing against some of his own Christian brothers.
2. This Christian group accuses Ignatius of believing and following a corrupted text to base his beliefs on.
3. Ignatius unable to refute or show evidence that his gospel is the authentic version, he swivels away and states that Jesus is the “original documents”.
4. This group was arguing that Jesus’s crucifixion is not mentioned in their original document(s) which they had in their possession.
5. As shown the scholars like Zahn, Smith and others in agreement that the group accused Ignatius of following and believing in a tampered, and falsified gospel.

Now some may ask, what happened to this group? If this is true, that there were early Christian group(s) which believed that Jesus was not crucified, what happened to them? The simple answer to this is, most probably as it usually occurred, they were killed off. Any group which went against the dominant group were put away. When a certain group went against another which attacked their beliefs, they were killed off in ancient times. This happened a lot in the early history of Christianity.

Crucifixion or Crucifiction: What Did 1st Century Christians Believe?

 

[Fenton Lum]

The simple answer to this is, most probably as it usually occurred, they were killed off. Any group which went against the dominant group were put away. When a certain group went against another which attacked their beliefs, they were killed off in ancient times. This happened a lot in the early history of Christianity.

And with all male dominator god religions, just as it does today.

 

[sealybobo]

It has puzzled Christ-worshippers why the Quran in very strong words says that Jesus (p) was not crucified:

“And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger – they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.” – Quran 157-158 (Pickthall Translation)​

Most Christians have regarded this ayah to be contrary and in conflict with what their version of the New Testament states. Their belief in the crucifixion is the cornerstone of their faith.

Ignatius (35 – 107) was the bishop of Antioch. In the year 107 (or 108) he was arrested by the Romans and subsequently taken away to Rome. In between his incarceration and his death in around 107 (or 108), Ignatius wrote a series of letters in which he attacked other Christian groups as a result of them holding on to beliefs which were contrary to his own.
One letter was the following:

2I urge you, do not do things in cliques, but act as Christ’s disciples. When I heard some people saying, “IF I DON’T FIND IT IN THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS, I DON’T BELIEVE IT IN THE GOSPEL,” I answered them, “But it is written there.” They retorted, “That’s just the question.”254 To my mind it is Jesus Christ who is the original documents. The inviolable archives are his CROSS AND DEATH AND HIS RESURRECTION AND THE FAITH THAT CAME BY HIM. It is by these things and through your prayers that I want to be justified. (Early Christian Fathers [Grand Rapids, MI: Christian Classics Ethereal Library] by Richardson, Cyril C. (1909-1976), page 96)​

This group is arguing that if what Ignatius believes in is not found in the “original documents”, they will not believe the gospel which Ignatius basis his faith on.

Few facts here:

1. Ignatius here is arguing against some of his own Christian brothers.
2. This Christian group accuses Ignatius of believing and following a corrupted text to base his beliefs on.
3. Ignatius unable to refute or show evidence that his gospel is the authentic version, he swivels away and states that Jesus is the “original documents”.
4. This group was arguing that Jesus’s crucifixion is not mentioned in their original document(s) which they had in their possession.
5. As shown the scholars like Zahn, Smith and others in agreement that the group accused Ignatius of following and believing in a tampered, and falsified gospel.

Now some may ask, what happened to this group? If this is true, that there were early Christian group(s) which believed that Jesus was not crucified, what happened to them? The simple answer to this is, most probably as it usually occurred, they were killed off. Any group which went against the dominant group were put away. When a certain group went against another which attacked their beliefs, they were killed off in ancient times. This happened a lot in the early history of Christianity.

Crucifixion or Crucifiction: What Did 1st Century Christians Believe?

They're telling the story of Jesus on public television. Basically 50 years after Jesus died Paul showed up in Greece and started telling about Jesus. It was his writings that were the basis for the new testament.

Amazing my ancestors swallowed that story. But all of our ancestors did I guess.

 

[sealybobo]

From Jesus to Christ, the first Christians. On frontline. Very interesting. Turns out baptism was what Christians came up with to convert people because grown men didn't want to get crucified.

Christianity is a completely made up religion. It should be silly people back then swallowed it but embarrassing people still do

 

[Meriweather]

It has puzzled Christ-worshippers why the Quran in very strong words says that Jesus (p) was not crucified:

“And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger – they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.” – Quran 157-158 (Pickthall Translation)​

Most Christians have regarded this ayah to be contrary and in conflict with what their version of the New Testament states. Their belief in the crucifixion is the cornerstone of their faith.

Ignatius (35 – 107) was the bishop of Antioch. In the year 107 (or 108) he was arrested by the Romans and subsequently taken away to Rome. In between his incarceration and his death in around 107 (or 108), Ignatius wrote a series of letters in which he attacked other Christian groups as a result of them holding on to beliefs which were contrary to his own.
One letter was the following:

2I urge you, do not do things in cliques, but act as Christ’s disciples. When I heard some people saying, “IF I DON’T FIND IT IN THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS, I DON’T BELIEVE IT IN THE GOSPEL,” I answered them, “But it is written there.” They retorted, “That’s just the question.”254 To my mind it is Jesus Christ who is the original documents. The inviolable archives are his CROSS AND DEATH AND HIS RESURRECTION AND THE FAITH THAT CAME BY HIM. It is by these things and through your prayers that I want to be justified. (Early Christian Fathers [Grand Rapids, MI: Christian Classics Ethereal Library] by Richardson, Cyril C. (1909-1976), page 96)​

This group is arguing that if what Ignatius believes in is not found in the “original documents”, they will not believe the gospel which Ignatius basis his faith on.

Few facts here:

1. Ignatius here is arguing against some of his own Christian brothers.
2. This Christian group accuses Ignatius of believing and following a corrupted text to base his beliefs on.
3. Ignatius unable to refute or show evidence that his gospel is the authentic version, he swivels away and states that Jesus is the “original documents”.
4. This group was arguing that Jesus’s crucifixion is not mentioned in their original document(s) which they had in their possession.
5. As shown the scholars like Zahn, Smith and others in agreement that the group accused Ignatius of following and believing in a tampered, and falsified gospel.

Now some may ask, what happened to this group? If this is true, that there were early Christian group(s) which believed that Jesus was not crucified, what happened to them? The simple answer to this is, most probably as it usually occurred, they were killed off. Any group which went against the dominant group were put away. When a certain group went against another which attacked their beliefs, they were killed off in ancient times. This happened a lot in the early history of Christianity.

First, Ignatius was not arguing against fellow Christians. He was arguing against heresies, particularly the one that seems to have taken root in Smyrna. The Docetics believed that since Christ was God, he could not have had a body--he only appeared to have a body. Therefore they came to believe Jesus, being God, could not have have suffered and died. Christians insisted Christ was God--but also had been fully man.

One of the first New Testament accounts of Christ's crucifixion was written in the mid 50s by Paul in his first letter to the Corinthians. In the first chapter, verse 23, Paul writes, "For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles."

It appears the Muslims picked up on an early heresy.

 

[sealybobo]

Correction. Baptism was invented because the first Christians didn't want to be circumcized not crucified.

 

[Ancient lion]

First, Ignatius was not arguing against fellow Christians. He was arguing against heresies, particularly the one that seems to have taken root in Smyrna. The Docetics believed that since Christ was God, he could not have had a body--he only appeared to have a body. Therefore they came to believe Jesus, being God, could not have have suffered and died. Christians insisted Christ was God--but also had been fully man.

One of the first New Testament accounts of Christ's crucifixion was written in the mid 50s by Paul in his first letter to the Corinthians. In the first chapter, verse 23, Paul writes, "For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles."

It appears the Muslims picked up on an early heresy.

This group is arguing that if what Ignatius believes in is not found in the “original documents”, they will not believe the gospel which Ignatius basis his faith on. Ignatius responds by saying that it is there in the document(s), and they respond by stating that,

“it is not written there”.

So what exactly was this group in disagreement with in this instance? Few lines down Ignatius tells us the reason and this is Jesus’s,

“Cross and death, and his resurrection…”

This was the debate. The point of contention here is the reality of Jesus’s crucifixion and resurrection not being mentioned in their original, and authentic document(s). Here the text suggests to us that what Ignatius had in his possession or believed in was the corrupted gospel, whereas what they had were the originals. The above discussion reveals that this group and Ignatius stood right at the opposite of the Christian theological spectrum. The group Ignatius is countering in this instance are of Judaic-Christian or fully Christian. The language used by Ignatius against this group suggests very likely that they were Christian, but they only rejected the crucifixion as a result of it not being in their own present manuscript (“documents”). The sayings,

“pay heed to the Bishop, the Presbytery, and the Deacons”,

And:

“Do nothing apart from the bishop; keep your bodies as if they were God’s temple; value unity; flee schism; imitate Jesus Christ as he imitated his Father”

And:

“act as Christ’s disciples”

These are not words used for heretics or fully Judaic group(s). This is a language employed only to his own Christian brothers, a group who were Christian but disagreed with him massively on the evidence of Jesus’s crucifixion.

We can hold two opinions in regards to this group, they were either fully Judaic-Christian who also held on to the Old Testament laws, which means that the Crucifixion and resurrection had to be in accord with what the Old Testament said i.e. if there are any prophecies foretold. Or they were a fully Christian group who upheld the teachings from the original Gospel which was in their possession. The latter has more weight in regards to the text when everything is read in context. There is no doubt here the group which he is battling with are Christians and not docetists as some have claimed.

 

[there4eyeM]

Believing the Christian version is challenging enough. Asking people to believe in a deity that puts on magic shows just to fool witnesses shows faith in gullibility.

 

[Ancient lion]

Don’t the Christians have the right to believe in the crucifixion? - islamqa.info

 

[there4eyeM]

Perception is everything for a human. Anything "outside" must be illusion at best.

 

[sealybobo]

Believing the Christian version is challenging enough. Asking people to believe in a deity that puts on magic shows just to fool witnesses shows faith in gullibility.

You guys should watch this From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS

 

[BreezeWood]

.

“Cross and death, and his resurrection…”

there is no evidence for why Jesus was even crucified, the answer to that would lead to why there may have been a resurrection which is implied as a proof to the jews they were indeed a god that Jesus most likely never claimed and had their been a resurrection the jewish religion would have perished - proving again the bible is a political document without merit.

.

 

[irosie91]

It has puzzled Christ-worshippers why the Quran in very strong words says that Jesus (p) was not crucified:

“And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger – they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.” – Quran 157-158 (Pickthall Translation)​

Most Christians have regarded this ayah to be contrary and in conflict with what their version of the New Testament states. Their belief in the crucifixion is the cornerstone of their faith.

Ignatius (35 – 107) was the bishop of Antioch. In the year 107 (or 108) he was arrested by the Romans and subsequently taken away to Rome. In between his incarceration and his death in around 107 (or 108), Ignatius wrote a series of letters in which he attacked other Christian groups as a result of them holding on to beliefs which were contrary to his own.
One letter was the following:

2I urge you, do not do things in cliques, but act as Christ’s disciples. When I heard some people saying, “IF I DON’T FIND IT IN THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS, I DON’T BELIEVE IT IN THE GOSPEL,” I answered them, “But it is written there.” They retorted, “That’s just the question.”254 To my mind it is Jesus Christ who is the original documents. The inviolable archives are his CROSS AND DEATH AND HIS RESURRECTION AND THE FAITH THAT CAME BY HIM. It is by these things and through your prayers that I want to be justified. (Early Christian Fathers [Grand Rapids, MI: Christian Classics Ethereal Library] by Richardson, Cyril C. (1909-1976), page 96)​

This group is arguing that if what Ignatius believes in is not found in the “original documents”, they will not believe the gospel which Ignatius basis his faith on.

Few facts here:

1. Ignatius here is arguing against some of his own Christian brothers.
2. This Christian group accuses Ignatius of believing and following a corrupted text to base his beliefs on.
3. Ignatius unable to refute or show evidence that his gospel is the authentic version, he swivels away and states that Jesus is the “original documents”.
4. This group was arguing that Jesus’s crucifixion is not mentioned in their original document(s) which they had in their possession.
5. As shown the scholars like Zahn, Smith and others in agreement that the group accused Ignatius of following and believing in a tampered, and falsified gospel.

Now some may ask, what happened to this group? If this is true, that there were early Christian group(s) which believed that Jesus was not crucified, what happened to them? The simple answer to this is, most probably as it usually occurred, they were killed off. Any group which went against the dominant group were put away. When a certain group went against another which attacked their beliefs, they were killed off in ancient times. This happened a lot in the early history of Christianity.

Crucifixion or Crucifiction: What Did 1st Century Christians Believe?

your proposition makes no sense---according to your citation the one issue upon which all the Christian scholars agreed as a FACT ----was the crucifixtion and
resurrection. As to the overly emitted Islamic fart-----"corrupted" or "falsified"
scriptures--------you should try to avoid that libel-----it is crude, vulgar and utterly baseless-----there is no suggestion of such in the citations

 

[irosie91]

.

“Cross and death, and his resurrection…”

there is no evidence for why Jesus was even crucified, the answer to that would lead to why there may have been a resurrection which is implied as a proof to the jews they were indeed a god that Jesus most likely never claimed and had their been a resurrection the jewish religion would have perished - proving again the bible is a political document without merit.

.

I do not understand your comment "there is no evidence for why Jesus was even
crucified"-------You know of NO REASON that the Romans would want to crucify
Jesus?

 

[bodecea]

It has puzzled Christ-worshippers why the Quran in very strong words says that Jesus (p) was not crucified:

“And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger – they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.” – Quran 157-158 (Pickthall Translation)​

Most Christians have regarded this ayah to be contrary and in conflict with what their version of the New Testament states. Their belief in the crucifixion is the cornerstone of their faith.

Ignatius (35 – 107) was the bishop of Antioch. In the year 107 (or 108) he was arrested by the Romans and subsequently taken away to Rome. In between his incarceration and his death in around 107 (or 108), Ignatius wrote a series of letters in which he attacked other Christian groups as a result of them holding on to beliefs which were contrary to his own.
One letter was the following:

2I urge you, do not do things in cliques, but act as Christ’s disciples. When I heard some people saying, “IF I DON’T FIND IT IN THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS, I DON’T BELIEVE IT IN THE GOSPEL,” I answered them, “But it is written there.” They retorted, “That’s just the question.”254 To my mind it is Jesus Christ who is the original documents. The inviolable archives are his CROSS AND DEATH AND HIS RESURRECTION AND THE FAITH THAT CAME BY HIM. It is by these things and through your prayers that I want to be justified. (Early Christian Fathers [Grand Rapids, MI: Christian Classics Ethereal Library] by Richardson, Cyril C. (1909-1976), page 96)​

This group is arguing that if what Ignatius believes in is not found in the “original documents”, they will not believe the gospel which Ignatius basis his faith on.

Few facts here:

1. Ignatius here is arguing against some of his own Christian brothers.
2. This Christian group accuses Ignatius of believing and following a corrupted text to base his beliefs on.
3. Ignatius unable to refute or show evidence that his gospel is the authentic version, he swivels away and states that Jesus is the “original documents”.
4. This group was arguing that Jesus’s crucifixion is not mentioned in their original document(s) which they had in their possession.
5. As shown the scholars like Zahn, Smith and others in agreement that the group accused Ignatius of following and believing in a tampered, and falsified gospel.

Now some may ask, what happened to this group? If this is true, that there were early Christian group(s) which believed that Jesus was not crucified, what happened to them? The simple answer to this is, most probably as it usually occurred, they were killed off. Any group which went against the dominant group were put away. When a certain group went against another which attacked their beliefs, they were killed off in ancient times. This happened a lot in the early history of Christianity.

Crucifixion or Crucifiction: What Did 1st Century Christians Believe?

They're telling the story of Jesus on public television. Basically 50 years after Jesus died Paul showed up in Greece and started telling about Jesus. It was his writings that were the basis for the new testament.

Amazing my ancestors swallowed that story. But all of our ancestors did I guess.

Paul was the ancient world's L. Ron Hubbard or Joseph Smith.

 

[the_human_being]

Strange that it was fully foretold in the Old Testament concerning the death and resurrection of Christ:

Christ's Death and Resurrection In the Old Testament - eNews for April 19, 2011

 

[there4eyeM]

Strange that the Koran contradicts itself most clearly and seriously precisely by the manner of its attitude toward and inclusion of Jesus.

 

[sealybobo]

Strange that it was fully foretold in the Old Testament concerning the death and resurrection of Christ:

Christ's Death and Resurrection In the Old Testament - eNews for April 19, 2011

Not strange at all. Of course Paul told the Greeks 40 years after the fact that all this miraculous stuff that was foretold came true. What's miraculous is that they believed him.

 

[sealybobo]

Strange that the Koran contradicts itself most clearly and seriously precisely by the manner of its attitude toward and inclusion of Jesus.

Whatever that means.

 

[irosie91]

Strange that the Koran contradicts itself most clearly and seriously precisely by the manner of its attitude toward and inclusion of Jesus.

A personal anecdote----4EYES>>>> long long ago--I was 20 years old -----college student and a little job in a big hospital-----front desk, completely clueless---
"information girl" I got the donated items----books and magazines GALORE.
(it was really a terrific fringe benefit for me-----ardent reader) No one wanted the
books----the hospital would send a lovely thank-you note and then INCINERATE
them.....but I read lots of them on the way. I got a KORAN!!! way back in mid
sixties------when most Americans had never heard of that book----so, of course, I read it. Pickthall version. It was SO SCREWY that I thought it HAD TO BE A MISPRINT. Lots of mistakes re: its messed up versions of biblical stuff. I was
brought up in an entirely secular jewish house-----but there were bibles around town. There was a young Pakistani intern around-----with whom I often conversed-------I handed him the book and said---"YOU SHOULD NOTIFY
THE PUBLISHER that they made lots of mistakes" He took a look thru the
pages and at the name of the translator and said "This is a good translation"
<<<<< true story. <<< part of my education in islam-----it gets a lot worse