Creation and so forth

[Hollie]

Another really sick post.

I don’t think the boy realizes that he self-associates with the very worst examples of religious extremists.

 

[Wuwei]

I don’t think the boy realizes that he self-associates with the very worst examples of religious extremists.

Yes. He is going unhinged. This is not the first time he said atheists need to die. If he lived next door and said that, I would call the police to have him checked out. A lot of mass killers have left hints on social media like this and were ignored.
.

 

[Grumblenuts]

The tremendous response to my post here has inspired me to return with an encore presentation here:
------
So why do we bother with "kinetic" energy?

Think about it. Many different types of energy are designated as "potential" in nature. In the "Kinetic energy" section, Wikipedia lists "chemical energy, thermal energy, electromagnetic radiation, gravitational energy, electric energy, elastic energy, nuclear energy, and rest energy" as different types, none clearly "kinetic" in nature, but only one is generally described as "kinetic" and treated as an entirely different class (or two if one considers the angular case distinct). Also, though it serves the purpose, I doubt that list is nearly exhaustive. You get the idea. Energy deemed "kinetic" is treated as though somehow special. Why? Why does it get put in its own separate class?

Well, excuses are made.. and Wikipedia provides some. First it defines "Kinetic energy" as "the movement energy of an object." Okay, I'm already getting a headache. You mean all the other forms of energy never move? No, not that? What then? The others don't involve objects? NO! Hold on. Relax. What then? "Movement energy" is just code for momentum. Uh, times speed. What? Yeah, I guess none of the others really deal with momentum. So? That difference requires a whole new classification? Wait.. Calm down. There's more.

"Kinetic energy can be transferred between objects and transformed into other kinds of energy." OMG, you're trying to give me a migraine, I swear! So when this alleged transfer takes place, aren't the "other kinds" also being "transferred" and "transformed"? Yeah. So what makes this "kinetic" variety so damn special? Wait!

"Kinetic energy may be best understood by examples that demonstrate how it is transformed to and from other forms of energy. For example, a cyclist uses chemical energy provided by food to accelerate a bicycle to a chosen speed. On a level surface, this speed can be maintained without further work, except to overcome air resistance and friction. The chemical energy has been converted into kinetic energy, the energy of motion, but the process is not completely efficient and produces heat within the cyclist."

Ah, I see. So this "potential", "chemical" variety of energy gets transformed into the "kinetic" class,.. Wait, did I just get that backwards? But then,.. But then! As the cyclist goes down the hill, her "potential" "positional" energy transforms into this "kinetic" variety as well! I think I'm starting to get the hang.. No. Doh! Hey, no worries. This'll surely cheer you up. Since you brought up "positional" energy, that's a great example of how "potential" energy is relative.. In this case to a position! So this "kinetic" kind isn't relative? Well, yeah.. Actually, it's all relative. Of course. But you felt a bit of relief there for a second, no?

Aaaarghhh!

 

[james bond]

Your threats make you look like a weak man.

I realized my weaknesses with identity protection and did something about it. My info was found on the dark web. Now, I am insured against someone using my info to buy things (hasn't happened) and its privacy protection has erased the dark web info. Currently, I'm on a protected internet instead of an unprotected or public one. Furthermore, I am going to a protected web on my phone, too, as I changed phone service providers.

Oh yeah. Atheists and their scientists still need to die to realize they are wrong lol, but I wouldn't wish their id's were stolen .

 

[surada]

I realized my weaknesses with identity protection and did something about it. My info was found on the dark web. Now, I am insured against someone using my info to buy things (hasn't happened) and its privacy protection has erased the dark web info. Currently, I'm on a protected internet instead of an unprotected or public one. Furthermore, I am going to a protected web on my phone, too, as I changed phone service providers.

Oh yeah. Atheists and their scientists still need to die to realize they are wrong lol, but I wouldn't wish their id's were stolen .

I have absolutely no interest in your identity nor would I even coyly threaten you as you have me.. You aren't that important in the scheme of things.

 

[MisterBeale]

There was obviously SOMETHING before The Big Bang

why?

I don't get your reasoning?

If space ends, then why not time? And if time ends? Then there is no, "before," or "after."

 

[james bond]

I have absolutely no interest in your identity nor would I even coyly threaten you as you have me.. You aren't that important in the scheme of things.

You can believe anything you want, but you seem to enjoy believing in lies. I enjoy now being insured when buying stuff online as delivery makes life easier w/no car right now .

To the contrary, I am important to God as I am a believer. Atheists are important to Lucifer and Abaddon, so it's not like your identities aren't known.

 

[james bond]

And if time ends? Then there is no, "before," or "after."

This doesn't make sense. If time ends, then we know there was a beginning of time.

If time didn't end, then it means that it is infinite into the future and that there was an infinite past. The infinite past is illogical and not scientific.

I don't know about the infinite future being unscientific, but I think it's illogical, i.e. if there was a beginning, then there is an end.

 

[fncceo]

why?

I don't get your reasoning?

If space ends, then why not time? And if time ends? Then there is no, "before," or "after."

I don't subscribe to the idea that space ends. Our universe 3D, that we perceive, might be finite but, I can't wrap my head around what might be past the physical boundaries of our Universe. Quite probably many -- infinite? -- others?

If you consider the vast number of possibilities, it's hard not to be completely dumb-struck by it.

P.S. I have no doubt that time, as we humans perceive it, as an arrow, behaves very differently to creatures who perceive things very differently.

 

[MisterBeale]

I don't subscribe to the idea that space ends. Our universe 3D, that we perceive, might be finite but, I can't wrap my head around what might be past the physical boundaries of our Universe. Quite probably many -- infinite? -- others?

If you consider the vast number of possibilities, it's hard not to be completely dumb-struck by it.

P.S. I have no doubt that time, as we humans perceive it, as an arrow, behaves very differently to creatures who perceive things very differently.

meh. I'm of the opinion that the universe, space, is both infinite and finite.

Like an infinite regression. As you approach the edges, the laws break down, so does time, and everything else. So? No matter how fast you appear to be going, or how much distance you appear to be covering, you can never quite cover that last few couple inches to the edge, because you are limited, in how much your speed can/would be, compared to how fast the universe is expanding. . .

Just my observation of how it would work in our dimension. . .

Thus? there is, by definition, NO physical boundary. It is impossible for anything, no light, no particles, nothing, to pass that boundary. Not in our dimension anyhow.

But? You could still try, forever.

 

[ding]

meh. I'm of the opinion that the universe, space, is both infinite and finite.

Like an infinite regression. As you approach the edges, the laws break down, so does time, and everything else. So? No matter how fast you appear to be going, or how much distance you appear to be covering, you can never quite cover that last few couple inches to the edge, because you are limited, in how much your speed can/would be, compared to how fast the universe is expanding. . .

Just my observation of how it would work in our dimension. . .

Thus? there is, by definition, NO physical boundary. It is impossible for anything, no light, no particles, nothing, to pass that boundary. Not in our dimension anyhow.

But? You could still try, forever.

You are describing the curvature of space. That does not mean the universe is infinite. Those are two different things.

 

[ding]

why?

I don't get your reasoning?

If space ends, then why not time? And if time ends? Then there is no, "before," or "after."

Time doesn't really exist. It's a convenient way to mark the expansion of the universe.

 

[MisterBeale]

You are describing the curvature of space. That does not mean the universe is infinite. Those are two different things.

Time doesn't really exist. It's a convenient way to mark the expansion of the universe.

Cosmological crisis: We don't know if the universe is round or flat

An analysis of data from the Planck space observatory suggests the universe is spherical, which would be a major headache for cosmologists

www.newscientist.com

 

[fncceo]

Time doesn't really exist. It's a convenient way to mark the expansion of the universe.

Our units of time are totally arbitrary, as are our measurements of distance or anything else.

But, it doesn't mean the things we measure with them don't exist.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Time exists like miles and meters exist. As an abstraction. Time based upon the speed of light (e.g. light years) is more independent (natural, tied to the universe, or less "arbitrary") since light appears to generally travel at a constant rate having nothing to do with us (or other creatures for that matter).

 

[Mushroom]

Cosmological crisis: We don't know if the universe is round or flat

An analysis of data from the Planck space observatory suggests the universe is spherical, which would be a major headache for cosmologists

www.newscientist.com

That is simple, it is in the shape of a klein bottle. most likely if it is not flat.

But if it is, then it is shaped like a Möbius strip.

 

[Flopper]

Science posits some things we now take for granted. For example, nothing can exist prior to itself.

matter/energy/space/time exist. Where did all this “stuff” come from? Fair question. Tracing it back with observation and science (particularly physics) we seemingly trace it back to the “Big Bang.” But where did the initial super tiny blob of whatever it was come from?

Our reliance on the rules and laws of science breaks down at that point. We call it by another set of names. We call it “quantum” physics and make reference to how the normal scientific laws are suspended at such a point. Basically, we speak of something that is literally outside the bounds of science. It is LITERALLY super-natural. (Not in the sense of the “divine” or “magic” necessarily; just in the sense of requiring explanation that is above and beyond our understanding of scientific “laws”.).

The geniuses who work in the fields of quantum physics and theoretical physics may be able — in a fashion — to explain how absolute nothing led to the infinitesimal “thing” that went “bang” thereby crating all matter/energy and space itself as well as time. But cannot explain the “why” of it all?

What, exactly, perturbed an absolutely empty void where no energy and no matter existed in no space and outside the parameters of time in order to set the Big Bang and all of creation in the cosmos into motion? Why would absolutely nothing lead to something?

(I placed this post in the science section; but I think it might be logically and fairly placed in a religion section, too.)

This discussion has persisted in one form or another since man first looked up at the stars. What is at the end of the university and what comes after the end. If a big bang started the whole thing, what came before the big bang and what existed.

All we really know about the creation of the universe is that it was very, very dense and that it very quickly got much less dense.

There are a lot ideas, none that really deserves to be called a theory because theories are based on observations and evidence which simple don't exist. One such idea is that before the Big Bang, the universe was an infinite stretch of an ultra hot, dense material, persisting in a steady state until, for some reason, the Big Bang occurred. This extra-dense universe may have been governed by quantum mechanics. Steven Hawkins said, "Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory and say that time began at the Big Bang," All this is just another way of saying, "We have no fucking idea what existed before the Big Bang.

When man is left with the unexplainable, then he concludes it must be the work
God. Helios, the sun god, drove a chariot daily from east to west across the sky and sailed around the northerly stream of Ocean each night in a huge cup. Lightning was a weapon of Zeus. Thunderbolts were invented by Minerva the goddess of wisdom. Crops failed because the Gods were displeased. Ect, etc.

 

[BackAgain]

This discussion has persisted in one form or another since man first looked up at the stars. What is at the end of the university and what comes after the end. If a big bang started the whole thing, what came before the big bang and what existed.

All we really know about the creation of the universe is that it was very, very dense and that it very quickly got much less dense.

There are a lot ideas, none that really deserves to be called a theory because theories are based on observations and evidence which simple don't exist. One such idea is that before the Big Bang, the universe was an infinite stretch of an ultra hot, dense material, persisting in a steady state until, for some reason, the Big Bang occurred. This extra-dense universe may have been governed by quantum mechanics. Steven Hawkins said, "Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory and say that time began at the Big Bang," All this is just another way of saying, "We have no fucking idea what existed before the Big Bang.

When man is left with the unexplainable, then he concludes it must be the work
God. Helios, the sun god, drove a chariot daily from east to west across the sky and sailed around the northerly stream of Ocean each night in a huge cup. Lightning was a weapon of Zeus. Thunderbolts were invented by Minerva the goddess of wisdom. Crops failed because the Gods were displeased. Ect, etc.

Maybe. But if God, where did He Come from?

If the entirety of everything came from an ultimately dense & infinitely small point, where did THAT thing come from?

Some people say a universal radiation got perturbed. What could have perturbed it? Where did that come from?

Some contend that there was a complete total void which got “perturbed” (because quantum physics Theory allows for such a “probability”) and this allowed for the incredibly tiny pinpoint of the stuff of a Big Bang to pop into existence. Really? From where? And wtf could perturb a complete void like that? And where did that thing come from?

Conclusion: I don’t know. I have a hunch but no basis to argue that it’s even close.

 

[Flopper]

AFAIK the atheist scientists thought the universe didn't have a beginning and that matter just existed forever. It really wasn't logical as one would have to have an infinite past and an infinite amount of matter. They couldn't explain where this matter came from of why it was infinite. It really wasn't logical.

Today, we know that the universe had a beginning scientifically. Also, we know there had to be matter as logically we can't have something pop into existence from nothing. What we disagree on is what was the cause for the starting matter (spacetime, matter) or singularity to exist.

I enjoy this thread. I do not have enough information to reach any conclusion which I can support. Even if there’s something I find I inately appealing about the notion of a mind which pre-existed all else, I confess I’m still wondering: Where could such a “mind” come from, in the first place?

Getting a little more basic than the creation of the universe would be the creation of laws of science needed to create the universe.

And then there is the super alien theory in which a race of super aliens, collective know as God run around the cosmos creating universes. I think my super alien idea is just as likely as anything else we have discussed.

 

[ding]

Cosmological crisis: We don't know if the universe is round or flat

An analysis of data from the Planck space observatory suggests the universe is spherical, which would be a major headache for cosmologists

www.newscientist.com

I am not a fan of dark matter or dark energy. I think it's bunk.