Zone1 Could you be Jewish and not even know it?

[DennisPTate]

You have the meaning of Sabbath entirely wrong. There’s no such thing as a High Sabbath.

You seem to be using the word Sabbath as a stand-in for “holiday.”

Just curious where you got this idea from.

I was introduced to hidden meaning behind all of the Jewish Sabbaths, the weekly Sabbath has hidden meaning. But also all of the annual Jewish High Sabbaths have hidden meaning behind them as well.

My apologies if I am using the wrong term, that was the way that Messianic Gentile Pastor Herbert W. Armstrong tried to explain them. These seven annual Sabbaths, [on which normal work is not permitted, just like the weekly Sabbath].

The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to the people of Israel, The appointed feasts of the Lord which you shall proclaim as holy convocations, my appointed feasts, are these. 3 Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation; you shall do no work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

Passover and Unleavened Bread​

4“These are the appointed feasts of the Lord, the holy convocations, which you shall proclaim at the time appointed for them. 5In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month in the evening, is the Lord’s passover. 6And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread to the Lord; seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. 7On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work. 8;But you shall present an offering by fire to the Lord seven days; on the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work.”
[Leviticus 23]


Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 23 - Revised Standard Version

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Uh no

 

[Lisa558]

I was introduced to hidden meaning behind all of the Jewish Sabbaths, the weekly Sabbath has hidden meaning. But also all of the annual Jewish High Sabbaths have hidden meaning behind them as well.

My apologies if I am using the wrong term, that was the way that Messianic Gentile Pastor Herbert W. Armstrong tried to explain them. These seven annual Sabbaths, [on which normal work is not permitted, just like the weekly Sabbath].

So what you’re saying is that a gentile is telling you about Jewish traditions and holidays?

This is why you’re wrong. I’m Jewish, was brought up in a traditional Jewish family, and I’m telling you - there are 52 Sabbaths in a a Gregorian year, and they ALL fall on Saturday.

 

[Hafar1014]

So what you’re saying is that a gentile is telling you about Jewish traditions and holidays?

This is why you’re wrong. I’m Jewish, was brought up in a traditional Jewish family, and I’m telling you - there are 52 Sabbaths in a a Gregorian year, and they ALL fall on Saturday.

Friday night they end on Saturday

 

[Hafar1014]

I was introduced to hidden meaning behind all of the Jewish Sabbaths, the weekly Sabbath has hidden meaning. But also all of the annual Jewish High Sabbaths have hidden meaning behind them as well.

My apologies if I am using the wrong term, that was the way that Messianic Gentile Pastor Herbert W. Armstrong tried to explain them. These seven annual Sabbaths, [on which normal work is not permitted, just like the weekly Sabbath].

There is no hidden meaning Armstrong was well known antisemite

 

[Lisa558]

Friday night they end on Saturday

I know that! I’m trying to keep it simple.

 

[Lisa558]

There is no hidden meaning Armstrong was well known antisemite

Woah! I had no idea who this Armstrong character is, but now it’s making sense as to why he’s turning Judaism upside down with all this seven annual shabbats nonsense.

 

[Lisa558]

If DennisTate wants to learn about Judaism, I would suggest he asks a practicing Jew - and not an antisemite.

 

[Hafar1014]

Woah! I had no idea who this Armstrong character is, but now it’s making sense as to why he’s turning Judaism upside down with all this seven annual shabbats nonsense.

He had a radio show and would spew anti semitic garbage all the time. It was Bible Thumping Christianity

 

[Anarchy666]

I'd say so. I'm Jewish, and although I only converted recently, I've always felt drawn to Judaism, particularly their interpretation of Satan - which I believe in more than the Christian interpretation. Additionally, to walk in the way of Christ would be to walk in the way of a Jew, so imo, Judaism makes more sense than Christianity.

 

[Lisa558]

He had a radio show and would spew anti semitic garbage all the time. It was Bible Thumping Christianity

Yeah, I just did a Google search on him. He was one of those Jew-hating evangelists. (I’ve had my run-ins with a few of them IRL.)

 

[DennisPTate]

So what you’re saying is that a gentile is telling you about Jewish traditions and holidays?

This is why you’re wrong. I’m Jewish, was brought up in a traditional Jewish family, and I’m telling you - there are 52 Sabbaths in a a Gregorian year, and they ALL fall on Saturday.

Thank you for your reply but I am telling you that your particular Rabbi is wrong because Leviticus 23 is clear that there are as many as seven annual Sabbaths that do not necessarily happen on the weekly Sabbath from Friday at Sunset to Saturday at sunset.

I don't know which branch of Judaism you have been listening to but here in Toronto even the Reform Jewish synagogue has some services on Passover or Yom Kippur or on several of the annual High Sabbaths, that is not necessarily on the weekly Sabbath, [although sometimes they do fall on the weekly Sabbath].

If you do a search for the Karaite Jewish community they even post the date from Jerusalem when each new moon is visible, [which is exactly how the beginning of months was calculated in the time of Moses and still is used].

I have to admit that seven annual Sabbaths, many of which can be during the week can be a bit difficult for our work schedules.

 

[onefour1]

I'd say so. I'm Jewish, and although I only converted recently, I've always felt drawn to Judaism, particularly their interpretation of Satan - which I believe in more than the Christian interpretation. Additionally, to walk in the way of Christ would be to walk in the way of a Jew, so imo, Judaism makes more sense than Christianity.

From your perspective, how do Jews view Satan as opposed to how Christians view Satan?

 

[Lisa558]

Thank you for your reply but I am telling you that your particular Rabbi is wrong because Leviticus 23 is clear that there are as many as seven annual Sabbaths that do not necessarily happen on the weekly Sabbath from Friday at Sunset to Saturday at sunset.

I don't know which branch of Judaism you have been listening to but here in Toronto even the Reform Jewish synagogue has some services on Passover or Yom Kippur or on several of the annual High Sabbaths, that is not necessarily on the weekly Sabbath, [although sometimes they do fall on the weekly Sabbath].

If you do a search for the Karaite Jewish community they even post the date from Jerusalem when each new moon is visible, [which is exactly how the beginning of months was calculated in the time of Moses and still is used].

I have to admit that seven annual Sabbaths, many of which can be during the week can be a bit difficult for our work schedules.

So every conservative and orthodox rabbi I’ve ever had in my life, along with my traditional Jewish family, and all my Jewish friends, and my Sunday School teachers at my shul, are all wrong - and the antisemite you listen to has it correct?

Oy vey.

 

[Hafar1014]

Thank you for your reply but I am telling you that your particular Rabbi is wrong because Leviticus 23 is clear that there are as many as seven annual Sabbaths that do not necessarily happen on the weekly Sabbath from Friday at Sunset to Saturday at sunset.

I don't know which branch of Judaism you have been listening to but here in Toronto even the Reform Jewish synagogue has some services on Passover or Yom Kippur or on several of the annual High Sabbaths, that is not necessarily on the weekly Sabbath, [although sometimes they do fall on the weekly Sabbath].

If you do a search for the Karaite Jewish community they even post the date from Jerusalem when each new moon is visible, [which is exactly how the beginning of months was calculated in the time of Moses and still is used].

I have to admit that seven annual Sabbaths, many of which can be during the week can be a bit difficult for our work schedules.

I cant find anything like that in Leviticus 23. It says every 7 days not seven annual sabbaths which doesnt make sense because annual is once a year.

 

[rosends]

Thank you for your reply but I am telling you that your particular Rabbi is wrong because Leviticus 23 is clear that there are as many as seven annual Sabbaths that do not necessarily happen on the weekly Sabbath from Friday at Sunset to Saturday at sunset.

I don't know which branch of Judaism you have been listening to but here in Toronto even the Reform Jewish synagogue has some services on Passover or Yom Kippur or on several of the annual High Sabbaths, that is not necessarily on the weekly Sabbath, [although sometimes they do fall on the weekly Sabbath].

If you do a search for the Karaite Jewish community they even post the date from Jerusalem when each new moon is visible, [which is exactly how the beginning of months was calculated in the time of Moses and still is used].

I have to admit that seven annual Sabbaths, many of which can be during the week can be a bit difficult for our work schedules.

Here is a problem -- you are using the word "sabbath" to mean "a day on which there are rules governing creative actions" and not to mean "the weekly cessation of work." The text uses the words in different ways so I can see the confusion (for example, the 7th year is called a sabbath, and a full week is called a sabbath in other cases).

In Judaism there is a weekly sabbath. There are also holidays (one of the words we use is mo'ed) on which there is SOME cessation of creative work but not as much as on the sabbath. As holidays go, only Yom Kippur has the same limitations as the sabbath -- other holidays have 2 major differences.

However, these other holidays are not "sabbaths" in any sense though they have some rules limiting work. Using the word "sabbath" to describe them would be wrong. Use "yom tov" or "chag."

 

[DennisPTate]

I cant find anything like that in Leviticus 23. It says every 7 days not seven annual sabbaths which doesnt make sense because annual is once a year.

Just imagine that the new moon begins each month, which it does. So if you do a search for new moons as visible from Jerusalem, you will likely find the Karaite Jewish website where they announce the visible new moon for Jews and Noahides all over the world.

Let's look specifically at two of the annual High Sabbaths, Rosh ha Shanah and Yom Kippur.

Rosh ha Shanah - The Festival or Trumpets is on the first day of the seventh month, Yom Kippur is on the tenth day of the seventh month. There is no way that both of these high Sabbath could both fall on the weekly Sabbath. At least one of them, [if not even both of them], could not be on the weekly Sabbath.

23And the Lord said to Moses, 24“Say to the people of Israel, In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall observe a day of solemn rest, a memorial proclaimed with blast of trumpets, a holy convocation. 25You shall do no laborious work; and you shall present an offering by fire to the Lord.”

And the Lord said to Moses, 27“On the tenth day of this seventh month is the day of atonement; it shall be for you a time of holy convocation, and you shall afflict yourselves and present an offering by fire to the Lord. 28;And you shall do no work on this same day; for it is a day of atonement, to make atonement for you before the Lord your God. 29;For whoever is not afflicted on this same day shall be cut off from his people. 30;And whoever does any work on this same day, that person I will destroy from among his people. 31;You shall do no work: it is a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 32;It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict yourselves; on the ninth day of the month beginning at evening, from evening to evening shall you keep your sabbath.”
[Leviticus 23]

I did a simple search for the question: "Do the Jewish months begin with a new moon?"

Yes, Jewish months begin with the new moon, specifically with the first visible crescent after the new moon, an event known as Rosh Chodesh. The word "chodesh" (month) comes from the Hebrew word for "new," emphasizing this connection.

• Lunar cycle: The Jewish calendar is a lunisolar calendar, meaning its months are based on the lunar cycle, lasting either 29 or 30 days.
• Rosh Chodesh: The beginning of each month is marked by a minor holiday called Rosh Chodesh.
• Historical observation: Historically, the start of the month was determined by witnesses who observed the new moon and brought their testimony to a court, which used astronomical knowledge to verify the sighting.
• Modern calculation: While it is still tied to the new moon, the modern calendar uses a mathematical formula based on the mean time between new moons (molad) to determine month lengths and leap years.
• Full moon: As a result of this system, the full moon always falls on the 15th of the month

 

[Hafar1014]

Here is a problem -- you are using the word "sabbath" to mean "a day on which there are rules governing creative actions" and not to mean "the weekly cessation of work." The text uses the words in different ways so I can see the confusion (for example, the 7th year is called a sabbath, and a full week is called a sabbath in other cases).

In Judaism there is a weekly sabbath. There are also holidays (one of the words we use is mo'ed) on which there is SOME cessation of creative work but not as much as on the sabbath. As holidays go, only Yom Kippur has the same limitations as the sabbath -- other holidays have 2 major differences.

However, these other holidays are not "sabbaths" in any sense though they have some rules limiting work. Using the word "sabbath" to describe them would be wrong. Use "yom tov" or "chag."

Correct they are using the wrong word

 

[Anarchy666]

From your perspective, how do Jews view Satan as opposed to how Christians view Satan?

The root word śāṭān (שטן) can refer to an adversary, a prosecutor, or an opposer. Not necessarily evil at all.
In a layman Jew's perspective I suppose it would mean that Satan is merely playing bad cop to God's good cop, and does all of his/her dirty work
Think of the phrase "raising hell" typically upon our enemies, one could say you are unleashing all the forces of Satan against them

 

[DennisPTate]

Here is a problem -- you are using the word "sabbath" to mean "a day on which there are rules governing creative actions" and not to mean "the weekly cessation of work." The text uses the words in different ways so I can see the confusion (for example, the 7th year is called a sabbath, and a full week is called a sabbath in other cases).

In Judaism there is a weekly sabbath. There are also holidays (one of the words we use is mo'ed) on which there is SOME cessation of creative work but not as much as on the sabbath. As holidays go, only Yom Kippur has the same limitations as the sabbath -- other holidays have 2 major differences.

However, these other holidays are not "sabbaths" in any sense though they have some rules limiting work. Using the word "sabbath" to describe them would be wrong. Use "yom tov" or "chag."

Thank you immensely for this clarification. Part of my problem was that I was taught that they were very much like the weekly Sabbath as far as not working went.