Zone1 Could you be Jewish and not even know it?

[AsherN]

No one follows Torah today. Maybe selectively, but that is it.

The "bad Jews"? Read the Torah, let alone the New Testament. Even Jews thought Jews were bad.

That says nothing of you or your contemporaries. Nothing.

Pharisaic, rabbinic, Talmudic Jews - however you think of yourselves - now are not the bad guys, but yet how you defend your alleged countrymen in the Bible.

We do. Some more closely than others. Of course, there are Commandments that only apply in Israel, or only apply if there is a King of Israel, or if there is a Temple. We follow all the Commandments that we can follow, both in Israel and in the Diaspora.

 

[norwegen]

from the Levitical laws concerning the sacrificial system which I mentioned. Instead of continuing the conversation regarding those, you moved to a different set of laws. And thus my statement.

No I didn't.

What set of laws did I move to?

 

[norwegen]

We do. Some more closely than others. Of course, there are Commandments that only apply in Israel, or only apply if there is a King of Israel, or if there is a Temple. We follow all the Commandments that we can follow, both in Israel and in the Diaspora.

Oh, not all the laws, eh. Like I said, selectively.

And just the real easy ones, too, I suppose, like observances. You know, because so many of them would violate other laws.

 

[Quantrill]

that is a book, christian bible written by crucifiers in the 4th century without an appendix for the material they preserved to write their book - as none are preserved.

do you have anything written by jesus making such a claim as the jews made that he is a messiah ... if not then he is not either a jew or their messiah.

The Bible both Old and New Testament is the Word of God. "Thus saith the LORD" And the New Testament was finished long before the 4th century. If you're going to *****, at least get it right.

You just read what He said. If you're going to *****, at least get it right.

So, as was shown you, Jesus said 'salvation is of the Jews'. And He said concerning the Messiah, 'I am He'.

Quantrill

 

[rosends]

No I didn't.

What set of laws did I move to?

Slavery and loans.

 

[AsherN]

Oh, not all the laws, eh. Like I said, selectively.

And just the real easy ones, too, I suppose, like observances. You know, because so many of them would violate other laws.

Yes, we select the ones we can still observe. Kind of hard to bring sacrifices to the Temple when there is no Temple. If they are observable, we observe them, as long as they don't conflict with local laws. That has always been the way.

 

[norwegen]

Slavery and loans.

You gotta be kidding me. The set of laws I was referring to regarding slavery and loans are from the Hebrew Bible, not some other set of laws.

Periodically, Israelites were relieved of remaining debt while foreigners were not (Deut 15:1-3). Likewise, they did not exact interest from their brothers, but did from foreigners (Deut 23:19-20).

And the slavery? Where to begin. Let's just say, a slave who survived a beating didn’t have to be avenged. You know, because slaves were just money (Ex 21:20-21).

You're the one who brought up some other set of laws. Some "replacement system," as you called it in post #248. What is this system you refer to that makes biblical law obsolete? Do you have a name for it?

By the way, since you say the biblical law is replaced, you're an anti-Semite.

Yup. True story. Ask Lisa.

 

[Hafar1014]

You gotta be kidding me. The set of laws I was referring to regarding slavery and loans are from the Hebrew Bible, not some other set of laws.

Periodically, Israelites were relieved of remaining debt while foreigners were not (Deut 15:1-3). Likewise, they did not exact interest from their brothers, but did from foreigners (Deut 23:19-20).

And the slavery? Where to begin. Let's just say, a slave who survived a beating didn’t have to be avenged. You know, because slaves were just money (Ex 21:20-21).

You're the one who brought up some other set of laws. Some "replacement system," as you called it in post #248. What is this system you refer to that makes biblical law obsolete? Do you have a name for it?

By the way, since you say the biblical law is replaced, you're an anti-Semite.

Yup. True story. Ask Lisa.

Why do we care about Jewish civil law thats 3000 years old

 

[norwegen]

Why do we care about Jewish civil law thats 3000 years old

Exactly. Or any other law that applied only to that ancient tribal, temple people of the Fertile Crescent.

Welcome to the fold, fellow anti-Semite.

 

[rosends]

You gotta be kidding me. The set of laws I was referring to regarding slavery and loans are from the Hebrew Bible, not some other set of laws.

but, though they are in the text of Leviticus, they are a different set of laws from the laws of sacrifices.

You're the one who brought up some other set of laws. Some "replacement system," as you called it in post #248. What is this system you refer to that makes biblical law obsolete? Do you have a name for it?

The replacement laws indicate prayer instead of sacrifices. But that backup plan is still part of the complete biblical law, so nothing is being made obsolete. Certain biblical laws apply in only certain times or situations while others are called for in other cases.

Do you need more explanation? If there is more you don't understand, please ask.

 

[norwegen]

but, though they are in the text of Leviticus, they are a different set of laws from the laws of sacrifices.

The replacement laws indicate prayer instead of sacrifices. But that backup plan is still part of the complete biblical law, so nothing is being made obsolete. Certain biblical laws apply in only certain times or situations while others are called for in other cases.

Do you need more explanation? If there is more you don't understand, please ask.

Oh, so this replacement system, whatever it's called, doesn't really replace. It just complements.

Thanks, but I'll pass on further explanation. It just gets more convoluted.

Meanwhile, be good to your slaves, please. We Americans get kind of sensitive about things like that.

 

[rosends]

Oh, so this replacement system, whatever it's called, doesn't really replace. It just complements.

No, it replaces. It takes the place of sacrifices when we are unable to use that system.

Meanwhile, be good to your slaves, please. We Americans get kind of sensitive about things like that.

Jewish law makes it tough to have a slave. As the talmud relates, one who acquires a slave has really bought a master for himself.

 

[norwegen]

No, it replaces. It takes the place of sacrifices when we are unable to use that system.

Jewish law makes it tough to have a slave. As the talmud relates, one who acquires a slave has really bought a master for himself.

This discussion hasn't been about Talmud; it's been about Torah and the Hebrew Bible.

So, back in context, then, Jewish law does not make it tough to have a slave. Not for Israelites, at least. You know some Israelites, surely. They're still around, yes?

Torah is still in effect, see. Slaves are permissable. So is discrimination with debtors.

 

[rosends]

This discussion hasn't been about Talmud; it's been about Torah and the Hebrew Bible.

It has been about the Torah as I referenced a directive from the Book of Hoshea. However the talmud is part of the Torah also.

So, back in context, then, Jewish law does not make it tough to have a slave.

sure it does.

Torah is still in effect, see.

true

Slaves are permissable.

not today they aren't

So is discrimination with debtors.

as I stated -- there are different laws for citizens and non-citizens. As you against that?

 

[norwegen]

It has been about the Torah as I referenced a directive from the Book of Hoshea. However the talmud is part of the Torah also.

sure it does.

true

not today they aren't

as I stated -- there are different laws for citizens and non-citizens. As you against that?

Our discussion has not been about Talmud. Only Torah.

But okay, let's incorporate Talmud into it, if you insist.

Torah says owning slaves legal. Talmud says it isn't, so you say.

Hmm. A contradiction. No problem, though, right? Because we'll just ignore Torah and follow Talmud.

Right on, Brother. I'm with you.

 

[AsherN]

This discussion hasn't been about Talmud; it's been about Torah and the Hebrew Bible.

So, back in context, then, Jewish law does not make it tough to have a slave. Not for Israelites, at least. You know some Israelites, surely. They're still around, yes?

Torah is still in effect, see. Slaves are permissable. So is discrimination with debtors.

Talmud is part of Torah. Talmud expands on the terse meaning of the Pentateuch. For example, Pentateuch says to slaughter animals in the manner shown. Talmud explains what that is. To fully understand Halacha, you need both.

 

[AsherN]

Our discussion has not been about Talmud. Only Torah.

But okay, let's incorporate Talmud into it, if you insist.

Torah says owning slaves legal. Talmud says it isn't, so you say.

Hmm. A contradiction. No problem, though, right? Because we'll just ignore Torah and follow Talmud.

Right on, Brother. I'm with you.

Talmud does not say you can't. Talmud gives you the conditions under which you can. And those conditions are almost impossible to meet.

 

[norwegen]

Talmud is part of Torah. Talmud expands on the terse meaning of the Pentateuch. For example, Pentateuch says to slaughter animals in the manner shown. Talmud explains what that is. To fully understand Halacha, you need both.

Well, one of your Jewish friends earlier in this thread asked why we would care about the 3,000-year-old laws in the Bible.

I'll agree with him.

Meanwhile, you keep trying to reconcile slavery's acceptance in the Torah with its prohibition in the Talmud.

 

[norwegen]

Talmud does not say you can't. Talmud gives you the conditions under which you can. And those conditions are almost impossible to meet.

What? Post-biblical Jews can own slaves, according to Talmud?

 

[AsherN]

Well, one of your Jewish friends earlier in this thread asked why we would care about the 3,000-year-old laws in the Bible.

I'll agree with him.

Meanwhile, you keep trying to reconcile slavery's acceptance in the Torah with its prohibition in the Talmud.

That's is partially correct. We don't worry about the parts of Jewish Law that we cannot apply anymore. Everything that requires the Temple is suspended.