Could We Please Stop Calling Obama, Reid, and Pelosi Liberals?

[KittenKoder]

Are you serious?
Reid and Pelosi are far leftist! Obama might be a little more to the center than them, but he is still very much a liberal!

The problem, and why labels are so bad, not all leftists are liberals, not all liberals are leftists, not all dems are liberals, not all cons are reps, not all scientists are atheists, not all politicians are crooked (just most), not all murderers are psychopaths, etc. etc. etc. ...

 

[MaggieMae]

Look. I'm a liberal. Obama, Reid, and Pelosi are left-leaning centrists. If someone has voted the way Obama, Reid, and Pelosi have, they aren't liberals; they're centrists.

Think of politics as a spectrum. Chomsky is a liberal, Nader is a liberal, the Green Party is liberal, but Democrats are not liberals. Democrats are centrists. Some Democrats voted for the Patriot Act for God's sakes! That isn't liberal. That's as right-wing as you can get from a liberal point of view. Anybody who doesn't immediately act to stop waterboarding isn't liberal. Anybody who supports clean coal isn't liberal. Anybody who maintains a military presence in Afghanistan isn't liberal. Anybody who bails out Wallstreet and the big national banks isn't liberal. If the spectrum goes from blue to red, then liberals are ultra-violet; anyone in the blue is just a liberalistic centrist with some right-wing tendencies.

I know that those of you who see politics from the right-side of the spectrum perceive centrists as liberals, but remember: you have to adjust for bias. Its called Kentucky windage.

Oh oh, here it comes. In a week, they will be calling them right wing nuts. Just watch!

Look, Bush was a flaming liberal, at least on spending and as for social policies, well, he sure wasn't my kind of conservative. We had every right to toss him your way... but, you ain't gonna pawn those three off on us! No way... no how!!!!

Immie

It's just so damned laughable that not a single soul on this board will admit to ever supporting George W. Bush. George who? Sorry, folks, but the odds say that most of the "conservatives" who post here most certainly DID support him at one time. But it's not a happy place to be, so you pretend you were off somewhere else during his 8 years.

 

[GHook93]

Are you serious?
Reid and Pelosi are far leftist! Obama might be a little more to the center than them, but he is still very much a liberal!

The problem, and why labels are so bad, not all leftists are liberals, not all liberals are leftists, not all dems are liberals, not all cons are reps, not all scientists are atheists, not all politicians are crooked (just most), not all murderers are psychopaths, etc. etc. etc. ...

Good point.

But left is another way of saying liberal. just as right is another name for conservative. Pelosi and Reid are definitely ultra-liberals social, on immigration, on the environment, on guns and esp their fiscal plans!

 

[MaggieMae]

Look. I'm a liberal. Obama, Reid, and Pelosi are left-leaning centrists. If someone has voted the way Obama, Reid, and Pelosi have, they aren't liberals; they're centrists.

Think of politics as a spectrum. Chomsky is a liberal, Nader is a liberal, the Green Party is liberal, but Democrats are not liberals. Democrats are centrists. Some Democrats voted for the Patriot Act for God's sakes! That isn't liberal. That's as right-wing as you can get from a liberal point of view. Anybody who doesn't immediately act to stop waterboarding isn't liberal. Anybody who supports clean coal isn't liberal. Anybody who maintains a military presence in Afghanistan isn't liberal. Anybody who bails out Wallstreet and the big national banks isn't liberal. If the spectrum goes from blue to red, then liberals are ultra-violet; anyone in the blue is just a liberalistic centrist with some right-wing tendencies.

I know that those of you who see politics from the right-side of the spectrum perceive centrists as liberals, but remember: you have to adjust for bias. Its called Kentucky windage.

Anyone who doesn't walk in lockstep with Southern conservative orthodoxy is a "liberal." As Limbaugh would have you believe, there is no such thing as a "moderate."

 

[Skull Pilot]

Look. I'm a liberal. Obama, Reid, and Pelosi are left-leaning centrists. If someone has voted the way Obama, Reid, and Pelosi have, they aren't liberals; they're centrists.

Think of politics as a spectrum. Chomsky is a liberal, Nader is a liberal, the Green Party is liberal, but Democrats are not liberals. Democrats are centrists. Some Democrats voted for the Patriot Act for God's sakes! That isn't liberal. That's as right-wing as you can get from a liberal point of view. Anybody who doesn't immediately act to stop waterboarding isn't liberal. Anybody who supports clean coal isn't liberal. Anybody who maintains a military presence in Afghanistan isn't liberal. Anybody who bails out Wallstreet and the big national banks isn't liberal. If the spectrum goes from blue to red, then liberals are ultra-violet; anyone in the blue is just a liberalistic centrist with some right-wing tendencies.

I know that those of you who see politics from the right-side of the spectrum perceive centrists as liberals, but remember: you have to adjust for bias. Its called Kentucky windage.

Oh oh, here it comes. In a week, they will be calling them right wing nuts. Just watch!

Look, Bush was a flaming liberal, at least on spending and as for social policies, well, he sure wasn't my kind of conservative. We had every right to toss him your way... but, you ain't gonna pawn those three off on us! No way... no how!!!!

Immie

It's just so damned laughable that not a single soul on this board will admit to ever supporting George W. Bush. George who? Sorry, folks, but the odds say that most of the "conservatives" who post here most certainly DID support him at one time. But it's not a happy place to be, so you pretend you were off somewhere else during his 8 years.

you're funny. believe it or not i am one of the most liberal people here in that I believe personal liberties and freedoms are of the utmost importance.

What Is Classical Liberalism?

People who call themselves classical liberals today tend to have the basic view of rights and role of government that Jefferson and his contemporaries had. Moreover, they do not tend to make any important distinction between economic liberties and civil liberties.

that any democrat can call themselves liberal is laughable

 

[KittenKoder]

Are you serious?
Reid and Pelosi are far leftist! Obama might be a little more to the center than them, but he is still very much a liberal!

The problem, and why labels are so bad, not all leftists are liberals, not all liberals are leftists, not all dems are liberals, not all cons are reps, not all scientists are atheists, not all politicians are crooked (just most), not all murderers are psychopaths, etc. etc. etc. ...

Good point.

But left is another way of saying liberal. just as right is another name for conservative. Pelosi and Reid are definitely ultra-liberals social, on immigration, on the environment, on guns and esp their fiscal plans!

Lately though, too many are interchanging left with Democrat, and still I contend that none of the liberals in government right now are true liberals, not by a long shot. The ones they are calling liberals are just morons really. Just as many the "left" call conservatives are just assholes.

 

[sealybobo]

Oh oh, here it comes. In a week, they will be calling them right wing nuts. Just watch!

Look, Bush was a flaming liberal, at least on spending and as for social policies, well, he sure wasn't my kind of conservative. We had every right to toss him your way... but, you ain't gonna pawn those three off on us! No way... no how!!!!

Immie

It's just so damned laughable that not a single soul on this board will admit to ever supporting George W. Bush. George who? Sorry, folks, but the odds say that most of the "conservatives" who post here most certainly DID support him at one time. But it's not a happy place to be, so you pretend you were off somewhere else during his 8 years.

you're funny. believe it or not i am one of the most liberal people here in that I believe personal liberties and freedoms are of the utmost importance.

What Is Classical*Liberalism?

People who call themselves classical liberals today tend to have the basic view of rights and role of government that Jefferson and his contemporaries had. Moreover, they do not tend to make any important distinction between economic liberties and civil liberties.

that any democrat can call themselves liberal is laughable

No, you are laughable, because you probably agree with progressives/liberals more than you do Republicans yet I always see you here bashing liberals. The right has brainwashed you into thinking the word liberal is a dirty word.

The same way fake conservatives have turned me off to all conservatives. I like some of what real conservatives have to say, I just don't believe them because I heard Bush and the GOP from 2000-2006 say the right things but they didn't deliver shit. Yet you don't hate them like you hate liberals.

The stop thinking that us liberals want to socialize the country and take away your guns. We don't. And stop thinking we are anti corporations just because they are anti labor. We gotta fight back when we are attacked. Its not that we hate them. They hate us. Is there any doubt the GOP considers us "the rabble"?

Just like you might not relate to the most radical right wingers, we don't relate to the radical lefties.

Ron Paul was on AIR AMERICA last night and the host said, "if more conservatives were reasonable like you Dr. Paul, we might be able to work with them on common ground.

But the GOP branded the one honest guy in your party a lunitic. So what should that tell me about that party?

Glenn Beck rolled his eyes to Ron Paul when he interviewed him and Ron Paul didn't say anything wrong. And how come Rush doesn't interview Ron Paul? Because he doesn't want to piss off the Ron Paul fans in the party.

You do realize that the GOP will never admit Ron Paul is right?

 

[MaggieMae]

They're FAR from being centrists.. and about as far left as you can get on stances, voting records, etc, within our government...

Dave, remember the shooting range? Its windy. You have to adjust. If Obama is as far left as you can get, then what is Chomsky and Nader? What is the American Socialist party? The Green Party? They're even more liberal than the three I named.

By voting record.. Obama was the most liberal in congress.. and that says something.. his reference to socialist texts and concepts has been continual...

He is DAMN far left.. maybe not a 'pure' socialist... but loves the concepts and ideals and is a direct neighbor of the socialists

Socialism in the United States is not Marxism. Even socialism in European nations does not follow the true course of nationalization of all industry and services. What we have, and historically always have had, is capitalism with social order (laws and regulations in place to diminish the potential for a caste system to be created).

 

[KittenKoder]

We need a hundred other labels at this point.

 

[MaggieMae]

Want to know all about Obama? Go here and browse around. Click the bottom link on B.O. on the left. Check out his past, his associations, his ideology, etc. He's LEFT, of that there is no doubt. He'a a Centrist . . .

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewIndividuals.asp

Wow...nice little hit site that is. If I wanted to know "all about" Barack Obama, I'd go to a site that wasn't so nakedly partisan. Major alliance with Bill Ayers? Nice lie there.

Agreed. First clue was Obama was deemed deserving of four (4!) separate hyperlinkings, alphabetically, whereas everyone else just got a lonely one (1). People who spend such enormous amounts of time pulling together all that information, then open a web page for it, obviously have an agenda. A BIG one.

 

[MaggieMae]

Want to know all about Obama? Go here and browse around. Click the bottom link on B.O. on the left. Check out his past, his associations, his ideology, etc. He's LEFT, of that there is no doubt. He'a a Centrist . . .

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewIndividuals.asp

Wow...nice little hit site that is. If I wanted to know "all about" Barack Obama, I'd go to a site that wasn't so nakedly partisan. Major alliance with Bill Ayers? Nice lie there.

yeah.. you always launch a campaign from a house of someone that you don't know

Obama knew Bill Ayers. He never denied that. But he didn't "pal around with him." And therein lies where you people get bogged down in your arguments. By always embellishing, twisting, turning and spinning, eventually it comes back to bite you in your collective asses.

 

[MaggieMae]

Yeah... as stated.. you don't just go doing things like that without knowing or associating with the person first... Obama supporters and Obama scurried to cover tracks from that one.. as well as being on the same executive board, etc...

It it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, lays eggs like a duck, swims like a duck, and tastes like a duck.. odds are it's a duck

Heeeeeere we go again.... Since it's you people who still insist on making these allegations, then it is up to YOU to prove that Obama had anything more than a passing business relationship with Bill Ayers, and certainly not a close personal relationship. Go ahead, make your case. You're the plaintiff here.

 

[MaggieMae]

And for every claim your way.. there is analysis the other...

THE OBAMA-AYERS CONNECTION at DickMorris.com

And lest we forget Obama's love of Alinsky's philosophies

Facts, my friend, not DICK-MORRIS-TYPE OPINIONS based on rightie propagandized material. Do you still not know the difference? I'll bet you'd know it if I posted something quoted from DailyKos!!

 

[Annie]

Look. I'm a liberal. Obama, Reid, and Pelosi are left-leaning centrists. If someone has voted the way Obama, Reid, and Pelosi have, they aren't liberals; they're centrists.

Think of politics as a spectrum. Chomsky is a liberal, Nader is a liberal, the Green Party is liberal, but Democrats are not liberals. Democrats are centrists. Some Democrats voted for the Patriot Act for God's sakes! That isn't liberal. That's as right-wing as you can get from a liberal point of view. Anybody who doesn't immediately act to stop waterboarding isn't liberal. Anybody who supports clean coal isn't liberal. Anybody who maintains a military presence in Afghanistan isn't liberal. Anybody who bails out Wallstreet and the big national banks isn't liberal. If the spectrum goes from blue to red, then liberals are ultra-violet; anyone in the blue is just a liberalistic centrist with some right-wing tendencies.

I know that those of you who see politics from the right-side of the spectrum perceive centrists as liberals, but remember: you have to adjust for bias. Its called Kentucky windage.

Anyone who wants government ownership of auto makers is pretty damn liberal.

It could be argued that the strong armed tactics used on the banks and the bankruptcy court regarding Chrysler are fascist, but then liberalism is fascist.

Using taxes, even sin taxes, to transfer wealth from a 'disdained group' to a favored group is liberal. (Rich to poor; smokers to SCHIP; pop to health care...)

Demonizing groups of people, (over $200k), to effect change of wealth distribution is liberal.

 

[MaggieMae]

And for every claim your way.. there is analysis the other...

THE OBAMA-AYERS CONNECTION at DickMorris.com

And lest we forget Obama's love of Alinsky's philosophies

Facts, my friend, not DICK-MORRIS-TYPE OPINIONS based on rightie propagandized material. Do you still not know the difference? I'll bet you'd know it if I posted something quoted from DailyKos!!

Here's your problem with Dick Morris's column: In it he states that Ayers applied for $50 million for Chicago public schools to secure funds to "raise political awareness." Quite simply, those artful words are a crock.

The Challenge was one of 18 projects supported by a $500 million grant announced at a White House ceremony Dec. 18, 1993, by the Annenberg Foundation, founded four years earlier by Philadelphia publisher Walter Annenberg. It was the largest single gift ever made to public education in America.

The Chicago project received a $49.2 million grant in 1995, and officials administering the grant funds at Brown University announced at the time that the Chicago proposal was developed through discussions among “a broad-based coalition of local school council members, teachers, principals, school reform groups, union representatives and central office staff” convened by three educators – one of whom was Ayers. Mayor Richard M. Daley, a Democrat, and Gov. Jim Edgar, a Republican, took part in a ceremony announcing the grant.
...
Where news reporters found little of note, though, Stanley Kurtz – the conservative writer who initially suggested a "cover-up" – cast it differently. After combing through the Annenberg records, he published an article in the opinion pages of The Wall Street Journal saying he found that Obama and Ayers acted as "partners" and together "poured more than $100 million into the hands of community organizers and radical education activists." He said money went to groups that "focused more on political consciousness, Afrocentricity and bilingualism than traditional education."

What Kurtz – and McCain in his Web ad – considers "radical," other observers see differently, however. Veteran education reporter Dakarai I. Aarons, writing in Education Week, says the Chicago Annenberg Challenge actually "reflected mainstream thinking among education reformers" and had bipartisan support:
...
Education Week (Oct. 8): The context for the Chicago proposal to the Annenberg Foundation was the 1988 decentralization of the city’s public schools by the Republican-controlled Illinois legislature, a response to frustration over years of teachers’ strikes, low achievement, and bureaucratic failure. ...

FactCheck.org: "He Lied" About Bill Ayers?

 

[Gunny]

And for every claim your way.. there is analysis the other...

THE OBAMA-AYERS CONNECTION at DickMorris.com

And lest we forget Obama's love of Alinsky's philosophies

Actually that doesn't say he launched anything from Ayers living room, merely that he was associated with Ayers. And so the fuck what? Ayers now writes books on education and is a college professor. Ooooooooh, scary.

Ayers is a scumbag terrorist. But I can see why you lefties like him. He fits the mold. If you don't agree with the government, protest violently.

His ass should still be in prison. Period.

 

[Nik]

Look. I'm a liberal. Obama, Reid, and Pelosi are left-leaning centrists. If someone has voted the way Obama, Reid, and Pelosi have, they aren't liberals; they're centrists.

Think of politics as a spectrum. Chomsky is a liberal, Nader is a liberal, the Green Party is liberal, but Democrats are not liberals. Democrats are centrists. Some Democrats voted for the Patriot Act for God's sakes! That isn't liberal. That's as right-wing as you can get from a liberal point of view. Anybody who doesn't immediately act to stop waterboarding isn't liberal. Anybody who supports clean coal isn't liberal. Anybody who maintains a military presence in Afghanistan isn't liberal. Anybody who bails out Wallstreet and the big national banks isn't liberal. If the spectrum goes from blue to red, then liberals are ultra-violet; anyone in the blue is just a liberalistic centrist with some right-wing tendencies.

I know that those of you who see politics from the right-side of the spectrum perceive centrists as liberals, but remember: you have to adjust for bias. Its called Kentucky windage.

Anyone who wants government ownership of auto makers is pretty damn liberal.

It could be argued that the strong armed tactics used on the banks and the bankruptcy court regarding Chrysler are fascist, but then liberalism is fascist.

Using taxes, even sin taxes, to transfer wealth from a 'disdained group' to a favored group is liberal. (Rich to poor; smokers to SCHIP; pop to health care...)

Demonizing groups of people, (over $200k), to effect change of wealth distribution is liberal.

Obama doesn't want to own the auto industries, but he also doesn't want to fuck the economy over.

Fascist? Exactly how is not letting hudge funds rape Chrysler facist?

Tax transfer isn't from "disdained groups" to "favored groups". Its from people who have money, to those who need money. And sin taxes are to prevent people from engaging in the sin.

Nobody has been demonizing people who make over 200k. They've been demonizing AIG, and some hedge funds and the like. Taxing isn't the same as demonizing.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Look. I'm a liberal. Obama, Reid, and Pelosi are left-leaning centrists. If someone has voted the way Obama, Reid, and Pelosi have, they aren't liberals; they're centrists.

Think of politics as a spectrum. Chomsky is a liberal, Nader is a liberal, the Green Party is liberal, but Democrats are not liberals. Democrats are centrists. Some Democrats voted for the Patriot Act for God's sakes! That isn't liberal. That's as right-wing as you can get from a liberal point of view. Anybody who doesn't immediately act to stop waterboarding isn't liberal. Anybody who supports clean coal isn't liberal. Anybody who maintains a military presence in Afghanistan isn't liberal. Anybody who bails out Wallstreet and the big national banks isn't liberal. If the spectrum goes from blue to red, then liberals are ultra-violet; anyone in the blue is just a liberalistic centrist with some right-wing tendencies.

I know that those of you who see politics from the right-side of the spectrum perceive centrists as liberals, but remember: you have to adjust for bias. Its called Kentucky windage.

Are you gonna quit calling Bush a Conservative?

 

[Nik]

And for every claim your way.. there is analysis the other...

THE OBAMA-AYERS CONNECTION at DickMorris.com

And lest we forget Obama's love of Alinsky's philosophies

Actually that doesn't say he launched anything from Ayers living room, merely that he was associated with Ayers. And so the fuck what? Ayers now writes books on education and is a college professor. Ooooooooh, scary.

Ayers is a scumbag terrorist. But I can see why you lefties like him. He fits the mold. If you don't agree with the government, protest violently.

His ass should still be in prison. Period.

Right, the mold of all lefties. There are, conservatively, over 50 million lefties in this country. Care to list all the ones who "protested violently" and so would "fit the mold"?

 

[Annie]

Look. I'm a liberal. Obama, Reid, and Pelosi are left-leaning centrists. If someone has voted the way Obama, Reid, and Pelosi have, they aren't liberals; they're centrists.

Think of politics as a spectrum. Chomsky is a liberal, Nader is a liberal, the Green Party is liberal, but Democrats are not liberals. Democrats are centrists. Some Democrats voted for the Patriot Act for God's sakes! That isn't liberal. That's as right-wing as you can get from a liberal point of view. Anybody who doesn't immediately act to stop waterboarding isn't liberal. Anybody who supports clean coal isn't liberal. Anybody who maintains a military presence in Afghanistan isn't liberal. Anybody who bails out Wallstreet and the big national banks isn't liberal. If the spectrum goes from blue to red, then liberals are ultra-violet; anyone in the blue is just a liberalistic centrist with some right-wing tendencies.

I know that those of you who see politics from the right-side of the spectrum perceive centrists as liberals, but remember: you have to adjust for bias. Its called Kentucky windage.

Anyone who wants government ownership of auto makers is pretty damn liberal.

It could be argued that the strong armed tactics used on the banks and the bankruptcy court regarding Chrysler are fascist, but then liberalism is fascist.

Using taxes, even sin taxes, to transfer wealth from a 'disdained group' to a favored group is liberal. (Rich to poor; smokers to SCHIP; pop to health care...)

Demonizing groups of people, (over $200k), to effect change of wealth distribution is liberal.

Obama doesn't want to own the auto industries, but he also doesn't want to fuck the economy over. Indeed, he does, via quick sale to Fiat after forcing the end of rule of law regarding bankruptcies.

Fascist? Exactly how is not letting hudge funds rape Chrysler facist? Rape Chrysler? They were the ones providing capital until 1/20/09. Then HE came on the scene, and said, "Fuck you! My supporters are getting what they voted for. Problem is, lots of those hedge fund managers did too and now are going public.

Tax transfer isn't from "disdained groups" to "favored groups". Its from people who have money, to those who need money. And sin taxes are to prevent people from engaging in the sin. Bullshit to the first. On the second, IF everyone stopped smoking, drinking pop, etc., then they'd have to come up with new 'demons', maybe you?

Nobody has been demonizing people who make over 200k. They've been demonizing AIG, and some hedge funds and the like. Taxing isn't the same as demonizing.

Yes it is, read what he has said.