Contraception - a discussion

[Quantum Windbag]

Contraception is about responsible parenthood. Why would Republicans choose to make it an issue in an election year is beyond me.

For some reason, anything having to do with sex puts them in a tizzy

Republicans did not, and are not, making contraception an issue.

Ummmmm....it seems they are

Cracked that door a little bit and social conservatives came running through

It seems they are? To who? Because it seems to me the people who are talking about contraception are the Democrats.

 

[JohnA]

Legal codes enforce matters properly defined in philosophy as ethical or moral. "Thou shall not steal" is a moral imperative (or a Commandment from God) and codified in the Penal Code of all states. Government does enforce morality.

Laws against theft and murder were around a long time before Moses wrote them on a rock. Did we forget that Moses was forced to flee Egypt for murdering someone? Theft is illegal not because it's necessarily immoral but because it infringes on the rights of others.

theft is illegal yet the govt steals money from me every day .

moses wrote them on a rock where do you think he got the idea from ?
from those who predated him and taught him so

 

[kaz]

Legal codes enforce matters properly defined in philosophy as ethical or moral. "Thou shall not steal" is a moral imperative (or a Commandment from God) and codified in the Penal Code of all states. Government does enforce morality.

Laws against theft and murder were around a long time before Moses wrote them on a rock. Did we forget that Moses was forced to flee Egypt for murdering someone? Theft is illegal not because it's necessarily immoral but because it infringes on the rights of others.

theft is illegal yet the govt steals money from me every day .

moses wrote them on a rock where do you think he got the idea from ?
from those who predated him and taught him so

If you haven't already read it, you would love "The Law" written by Batiste. You sound like someone who would enjoy it.

The Law, by Frederic Bastiat

 

[JohnA]

The Catholic Church is opposed to contraception for moral reasons.

Where is the morality in creating a life when food and clean water are rare commodities? Where poverty exists and educational opportunities are non existent?

Where is the morality when disease is spread?

Where is the morality when a women is the victim of domestic violence? When a women is forced to conceive and then trapped as the child become a lever to gain more power and more control?

The Catholic Church is not a moral enterprise. It is a criminal enterprise. They oppose birth control solely for the purpose of creating more Catholics. They have been perpetrating a fraud since inception by promising a wonderful afterlife if you give everything to them in this life. That's called fraud. Fraud is a criminal activity.

not only its a( no fail) commercial enterprise as is all organized religion

none of them are held to the same standards as any other commercial enterprize

they can sell and make claims for the product with no govt interference or regulations
there are no refunds or returns
dont take credit or except coupons
they dont have sales
they cannot be sued for breach of contract of failing to honor a warrantee.
the product is never updated same old stuff sold year in year out
they dont pay tax.
they have no competition
in short all religious org are a sure fire money making enterprise ,

 

[rightwinger]

Republicans did not, and are not, making contraception an issue.

Ummmmm....it seems they are

Cracked that door a little bit and social conservatives came running through

By opposing Democrats forcing insurance companies to pay for contraceptives...Republicans...made it an issue. I wouldn't have let government pay for your mother's contraceptives with confiscated money, but I'd have written her a check...

Once again Republicans dance around an issue and proclaim......We are just against it "on principle"

It's not that Republicans are against birth control........it just the principle of making insurance pay for it

It's not that Republicans are against gay marriage.....it's the principle that the people should vote for it first

It's not that Republicans are against healthcare........it's the principle of mandated coverage

Fact is........Republicans ARE against it

 

[kaz]

It's not that Republicans are against birth control........it just the principle of making insurance pay for it

No, it's not the principle of making people pay for it, it's making people pay for it. I don't support freedom on principle, I support freedom. I'd say you're the champ at word games, but actually you aren't very good at it.

 

[paulitician]

Not a Government issue. Time to get the Government out of the bedroom. No more having it both ways. The Government doesn't belong being involved with such private personal matters. And they definitely shouldn't be forcing anyone to pay for someone else's Contraception & Abortions. Taxpayers are not required to fund fellow Citizens' personal sexual behavior. It's the individual Citizens' responsibility to fund their own behavior. You want to be promiscuous and have several Abortions? Well then you have to take personal responsibility and fund that behavior yourself. It's not your fellow Citizens' responsibility to do that. Big Government needs to be booted out of these personal social issues. They're clearly over-reaching now.

 

[kaz]

Not a Government issue. Time to get the Government out of the bedroom

They are just concerned that we be forced to pay a little now for contraception so they don't force us to pay a lot later for welfare. Don't you love how the left look out for us?

 

[paulitician]

Not a Government issue. Time to get the Government out of the bedroom

They are just concerned that we be forced to pay a little now for contraception so they don't force us to pay a lot later for welfare. Don't you love how the left look out for us?

Socialists/Progressives like to have it both ways on issues like this. They don't really want the Government out of the bedroom. They only want that when it's convenient for them. They fully support the Government forcing Taxpayers to subsidize fellow Citizens' personal sexual behavior. They also fully support forcing Taxpayers to subsidize Abortions. So they're not very honest or consistent. It's time for Big Government to really get out of the bedroom. Let the age of personal responsibility dawn.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Not a Government issue. Time to get the Government out of the bedroom

They are just concerned that we be forced to pay a little now for contraception so they don't force us to pay a lot later for welfare. Don't you love how the left look out for us?

Socialists/Progressives like to have it both ways on issues like this. They don't really want the Government out of the bedroom. They only want that when it's convenient for them. They fully support the Government forcing Taxpayers to subsidize fellow Citizens' personal sexual behavior. They also fully support forcing Taxpayers to subsidize Abortions. So they're not very honest or consistent. It's time for Big Government to really get out of the bedroom. Let the age of personal responsibility dawn.

I prefer The Age of Aquarius:

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius
The Age of Aquarius
Aquarius! Aquarius!

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revelation
And the mind's true liberation
Aquarius! Aquarius!

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius
The Age of Aquarius
Aquarius! Aquarius!

Kinda the antithesis of the age of Callous Conservatives.

 

[BluePhantom]

Laws against theft and murder were around a long time before Moses wrote them on a rock. Did we forget that Moses was forced to flee Egypt for murdering someone? Theft is illegal not because it's necessarily immoral but because it infringes on the rights of others.

Of course there were prohibitions against theft and murder before Moses, that was expressed in my post (Moral Imperative).

Can you clarify your remark, specifically, "theft is illegal not because it's necessarily immoral" with an example of when theft is moral or amoral?

moral theft... stealing the car keys off a drunk driver.

That would certainly be a good example. But more to the point that there are laws which certainly coincide with a "moral code" such as laws against murder or theft but the real sticking point is that those acts violate the rights of others. People often make the argument that our laws are based on the ten commandments or are based on Judeo-Christian theology and that's not quite the case. Only two (arguably three or four) of the commandments are enforced by law in the United States and those that are existed in most societies long before Judaism even entered the picture. Other laws based on a moral belief (such as the Massachusetts "crimes against chastity laws") have been declared to be unconstitutional. So what I am getting at is that government only enforces "morality" when it happens to coincidentally do so in the act of protecting the personal rights of other people.

I am sure there are exceptions that can be found and certainly there are still "moral laws" on the books, but for the most part they are rarely enforced or they get shot down when brought before the SCOTUS unless they have some secondary purpose that overrides the moral purpose.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Socialists/Progressives like to have it both ways on issues like this. They don't really want the Government out of the bedroom. They only want that when it's convenient for them. They fully support the Government forcing Taxpayers to subsidize fellow Citizens' personal sexual behavior. They also fully support forcing Taxpayers to subsidize Abortions. So they're not very honest or consistent. It's time for Big Government to really get out of the bedroom. Let the age of personal responsibility dawn.

No, they don’t, because they know it’s illegal to use taxpayers’ funds to subsidize abortion. So liberals don’t want to ‘have it both ways,’ they’re being perfectly honest and consistent.

If conservatives really want ‘Big Government ’out of the bedroom and an age of ‘personal responsibility’ to dawn, then they need to cease their efforts to violate a woman’s right to privacy with regard to abortion and access to contraceptives.

The hypocrisy and ignorance belongs to conservatives alone.

FactCheck.org : The Abortion Issue

Unless of course one is dealing with conservatives who oppose abortion for women in cases of rape or incest, or to save the life of the mother; in addition to being ignorant hypocrites, such conservatives are also criminals.

 

[WillowTree]

Sex is optional. You can either choose to have sex or knot. If you choose to have sex you should act like a good girl and not a whore. A whore expects others to pay for her to play..

 

[rightwinger]

Sex is optional. You can either choose to have sex or knot. If you choose to have sex you should act like a good girl and not a whore. A whore expects others to pay for her to play..

So any woman whose insurance company currently covers birth control is a whore

Thanks for clarifying

 

[Wry Catcher]

Of course there were prohibitions against theft and murder before Moses, that was expressed in my post (Moral Imperative).

Can you clarify your remark, specifically, "theft is illegal not because it's necessarily immoral" with an example of when theft is moral or amoral?

moral theft... stealing the car keys off a drunk driver.

That would certainly be a good example. But more to the point that there are laws which certainly coincide with a "moral code" such as laws against murder or theft but the real sticking point is that those acts violate the rights of others. People often make the argument that our laws are based on the ten commandments or are based on Judeo-Christian theology and that's not quite the case. Only two (arguably three or four) of the commandments are enforced by law in the United States and those that are existed in most societies long before Judaism even entered the picture. Other laws based on a moral belief (such as the Massachusetts "crimes against chastity laws") have been declared to be unconstitutional. So what I am getting at is that government only enforces "morality" when it happens to coincidentally do so in the act of protecting the personal rights of other people.

I am sure there are exceptions that can be found and certainly there are still "moral laws" on the books, but for the most part they are rarely enforced or they get shot down when brought before the SCOTUS unless they have some secondary purpose that overrides the moral purpose.

Most crimes in the Penal Code - and other codes - have victims, and are therefore protecting the rights of others. There are exceptions however, being under the influence of a drug or narcotic is one, a women exposing her breast in public is another. Aren't these examples of the government enforcing a moral code?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Socialists/Progressives like to have it both ways on issues like this. They don't really want the Government out of the bedroom. They only want that when it's convenient for them. They fully support the Government forcing Taxpayers to subsidize fellow Citizens' personal sexual behavior. They also fully support forcing Taxpayers to subsidize Abortions. So they're not very honest or consistent. It's time for Big Government to really get out of the bedroom. Let the age of personal responsibility dawn.

No, they don’t, because they know it’s illegal to use taxpayers’ funds to subsidize abortion. So liberals don’t want to ‘have it both ways,’ they’re being perfectly honest and consistent.

If conservatives really want ‘Big Government ’out of the bedroom and an age of ‘personal responsibility’ to dawn, then they need to cease their efforts to violate a woman’s right to privacy with regard to abortion and access to contraceptives.

The hypocrisy and ignorance belongs to conservatives alone.

FactCheck.org : The Abortion Issue

Unless of course one is dealing with conservatives who oppose abortion for women in cases of rape or incest, or to save the life of the mother; in addition to being ignorant hypocrites, such conservatives are also criminals.

Juxtaposing abortions and bedrooms is a little strange, don't you think? Especially on top of the false claim that women are being denied access to contraceptives.

 

[WillowTree]

Sex is optional. You can either choose to have sex or knot. If you choose to have sex you should act like a good girl and not a whore. A whore expects others to pay for her to play..

So any woman whose insurance company currently covers birth control is a whore

Thanks for clarifying

didn't say that tampon. if they willingly pay for it that's their choice,, forced is another matter.. but then we girls don't expect tampons to know much.

 

[kaz]

Sex is optional. You can either choose to have sex or knot. If you choose to have sex you should act like a good girl and not a whore. A whore expects others to pay for her to play..

So any woman whose insurance company currently covers birth control is a whore

Thanks for clarifying

Clarifying? That one didn't make sense...even for you... Seriously, if we oppose government forcing insurance companies to pay for contraceptives then we're against insurance companies paying for contraceptives? The concept of free choice for both companies and consumers isn't even on your radar?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Sex is optional. You can either choose to have sex or knot. If you choose to have sex you should act like a good girl and not a whore. A whore expects others to pay for her to play..

I'm familair with sex but didn't know the alternative was" knot". Is that something one does with their SO? Oh! I bet you meant Twister.

 

[Intense]

Sex is optional. You can either choose to have sex or knot. If you choose to have sex you should act like a good girl and not a whore. A whore expects others to pay for her to play..

I'm familair with sex but didn't know the alternative was" knot". Is that something one does with their SO? Oh! I bet you meant Twister.

Knot is what some Women do with their tubes.