Company Dumps Healthcare Plan

[Care4all]

Haven't you ObamaCare dipshits ever stopped to wonder why you have to buy your insurance through a government exchange if you don't get insurance from your job?

Duhhhhh...government takeover? What government takeover?


Why can't you buy insurance the same way you buy home, auto, or life insurance? Did you ever wonder about that?

you can buy it without going on to the exchange... you can buy an individual health insurance policy just like you did before obamacare came in effect, so please explain what you mean that you can't buy private individual insurance off of the exchange, because..... you can buy it.

you won't be subsidized if you qualify, and don't buy it on the exchange....but you can buy insurance all day long, OFF THE EXCHANGE G5000?

 

[The Rabbi]

The large employer gets assessed at $2000-$3000 per employee per year, (as tax penalty) and this $2000-$3000 per employee is not tax deductible, as paying for insurance would be, and the large employer's employees would not be eligible for any subsidies if he offers them the $375 towards health insurance on the exchange, AND the $375 that he would give employees to buy insurance is also not tax deductible because the law states you must be buying the health insurance for the employee, not for the employee to buy their own, so the IRS would not allow that $375 as a deduction...they could just give them all a $375 raise, then that could be deductible, i suppose....

Most large companies offer health care insurance because their employees demand it, and when they go and get rid of the benefit, it is the beginning of their best employees to a mass exodus, of them leaving and going to companies that do offer it....

Before the Obama care mandate, large corporations could have dropped their insurance any time they wanted, or never have offered it in the first place....there was nothing stopping them, no penalties or any of that...yet most of them offered health care insurance....for recruiting the best employees.

Good luck to your friend's company!

The penalty is deductible as a cost of doing business. The money paid to employees as compensation is deductible
Before Obamacare companies decided what and whether to offer. Now they must either offer hugely expensive plans or pay a penalty.
This at least frees up the company to offer its best employees more money etc to offset the insurance costs.

NO IT IS NOT DEDUCTIBLE!

The Employer Mandate Fee / Employer Shared Responsibility Payment

The annual employer mandate fee (officially called an Employer Shared Responsibility Payment) is a per employee fee for employers with over 50 full-time equivalent employees who don't offer health coverage to full-time employees.
• The employer mandate is based on full-time equivalent employees, not just full-time employees.
• The fee is based on whether or not you offer affordable health insurance to your employees that provides minimum value (explained below).
• In 2015 employers with more than 100 FTEs will need to cover 70% of their full-time employees. By 2016 employers with more than 50 FTEs will need to provide coverage to "substantially all" (95%) their full-time employees.
• The annual fee is $2,000 per employee if insurance isn't offered (the first 30 full-time employees are exempt).
• If at least one full-time employee receives a premium tax credit because coverage is either unaffordable or does not cover 60 percent of total costs, the employer must pay the lesser of $3,000 for each of those employees receiving a credit or $750 for each of their full-time employees total.
• The fee is a per month fee due annually on employer federal tax returns starting in 2015 for small businesses with 100 or more full-time equivalent employees(2016 for those with 50-99). So the per month fee is 1/12 of the $2,000 or $3,000 per employee.


• Unlike employer contributions to employee premiums, the Employer Shared Responsibility Payment is not tax deductible.


• Transition relief is available to small businesses and large businesses transitioning into compliance with the new mandate. Please see the official IRS rules regarding transition relief here.
• The Internal Revenue Service has more information about the Employer Shared Responsibility Payment.

in addition to this the employee can not get individual health care insurance for $350 a month.... you are giving him a paycut....

PLUS you have to pay employer share of Social security and Medicare taxes on the $350 a month and the employee will end up with about $250 or less...once he pays SS and medicare taxes and federal income taxes and state income taxes etc...where as employer purchased health insurance, is tax deductible for the employer, the employer pays no Added SS and medicare taxes for it and employees actually gets a benefit, instead of employer just handing over $2000 a head to the gvt for nothing in return, and no tax deduction for this expense....

sounds like a real dumb decision for your friend

I'll give you his email address and you can explain why you have superior knowledge and experience.
You do have experience managing health care policies and benefits for a small company, right?

 

[Kosh]

Haven't you ObamaCare dipshits ever stopped to wonder why you have to buy your insurance through a government exchange if you don't get insurance from your job?

Duhhhhh...government takeover? What government takeover?


Why can't you buy insurance the same way you buy home, auto, or life insurance? Did you ever wonder about that?

you can buy it without going on to the exchange... you can buy an individual health insurance policy just like you did before obamacare came in effect, so please explain what you mean that you can't buy private individual insurance off of the exchange, because..... you can buy it.

you won't be subsidized if you qualify, and don't buy it on the exchange....but you can buy insurance all day long, OFF THE EXCHANGE G5000?

Proof the far left is not even connected to reality...

 

[jillian]

Haven't you ObamaCare dipshits ever stopped to wonder why you have to buy your insurance through a government exchange if you don't get insurance from your job?

Duhhhhh...government takeover? What government takeover?


Why can't you buy insurance the same way you buy home, auto, or life insurance? Did you ever wonder about that?

you can buy it without going on to the exchange... you can buy an individual health insurance policy just like you did before obamacare came in effect, so please explain what you mean that you can't buy private individual insurance off of the exchange, because..... you can buy it.

you won't be subsidized if you qualify, and don't buy it on the exchange....but you can buy insurance all day long, OFF THE EXCHANGE G5000?

Proof the far left is not even connected to reality...

polly wanna cracker, nutbar sock?

i get it... you don't understand the subject. no one cares. but perhaps it wouldn't be so obvious if you stopped interjecting.

 

[jillian]

Haven't you ObamaCare dipshits ever stopped to wonder why you have to buy your insurance through a government exchange if you don't get insurance from your job?

Duhhhhh...government takeover? What government takeover?


Why can't you buy insurance the same way you buy home, auto, or life insurance? Did you ever wonder about that?

you can buy it without going on to the exchange... you can buy an individual health insurance policy just like you did before obamacare came in effect, so please explain what you mean that you can't buy private individual insurance off of the exchange, because..... you can buy it.

you won't be subsidized if you qualify, and don't buy it on the exchange....but you can buy insurance all day long, OFF THE EXCHANGE G5000?

he doesn't know what he means. he just needs to spin around three times chanting obamacare obamacare obamacare.

 

[The Rabbi]

you can buy it without going on to the exchange... you can buy an individual health insurance policy just like you did before obamacare came in effect, so please explain what you mean that you can't buy private individual insurance off of the exchange, because..... you can buy it.

you won't be subsidized if you qualify, and don't buy it on the exchange....but you can buy insurance all day long, OFF THE EXCHANGE G5000?

Proof the far left is not even connected to reality...

polly wanna cracker, nutbar sock?

i get it... you don't understand the subject. no one cares. but perhaps it wouldn't be so obvious if you stopped interjecting.

Poor little confused low info wing nut nut job poseur.

 

[Kosh]

you can buy it without going on to the exchange... you can buy an individual health insurance policy just like you did before obamacare came in effect, so please explain what you mean that you can't buy private individual insurance off of the exchange, because..... you can buy it.

you won't be subsidized if you qualify, and don't buy it on the exchange....but you can buy insurance all day long, OFF THE EXCHANGE G5000?

Proof the far left is not even connected to reality...

polly wanna cracker, nutbar sock?

i get it... you don't understand the subject. no one cares. but perhaps it wouldn't be so obvious if you stopped interjecting.

Yes more empirical evidence the far left does not have anything beyond their talking points and propaganda.

 

[francoHFW]

ACA is basically the Nixon, Dole, Heritage plan. Just shows how mindlessly obstructionist the new bs GOP is, and what a joke our corporate media is...

How does the original source of the idea make it any better/worse of an idea?

The us versus them mentality won't give you a straight answer to that one.

BS. It doesn't. Just shows what liars and hypocrites the new bs GOP is...the real powers behind the GOP are controlled by their greedy corporate cronies...could give a shytte about America or their silly dupes...

 

[Listening]

Haven't you ObamaCare dipshits ever stopped to wonder why you have to buy your insurance through a government exchange if you don't get insurance from your job?

Duhhhhh...government takeover? What government takeover?


Why can't you buy insurance the same way you buy home, auto, or life insurance? Did you ever wonder about that?

you can buy it without going on to the exchange... you can buy an individual health insurance policy just like you did before obamacare came in effect, so please explain what you mean that you can't buy private individual insurance off of the exchange, because..... you can buy it.

you won't be subsidized if you qualify, and don't buy it on the exchange....but you can buy insurance all day long, OFF THE EXCHANGE G5000?

he doesn't know what he means. he just needs to spin around three times chanting obamacare obamacare obamacare.

Why don't you take him over the bull ring and kick his ass ?

Answer: Because he's one of the best posters on the board and he'd chew your your sorry carcass up and spit it out in little pieces.

Why don't you cut the commentary and post something of substance for once in your miserable little life.

 

[Kosh]

Haven't you ObamaCare dipshits ever stopped to wonder why you have to buy your insurance through a government exchange if you don't get insurance from your job?

Duhhhhh...government takeover? What government takeover?


Why can't you buy insurance the same way you buy home, auto, or life insurance? Did you ever wonder about that?

you can buy it without going on to the exchange... you can buy an individual health insurance policy just like you did before obamacare came in effect, so please explain what you mean that you can't buy private individual insurance off of the exchange, because..... you can buy it.

you won't be subsidized if you qualify, and don't buy it on the exchange....but you can buy insurance all day long, OFF THE EXCHANGE G5000?

he doesn't know what he means. he just needs to spin around three times chanting obamacare obamacare obamacare.

WOW! Did your far left programming allow you to come up with all on your own?

 

[g5000]

Haven't you ObamaCare dipshits ever stopped to wonder why you have to buy your insurance through a government exchange if you don't get insurance from your job?

Duhhhhh...government takeover? What government takeover?


Why can't you buy insurance the same way you buy home, auto, or life insurance? Did you ever wonder about that?

you can buy it without going on to the exchange... you can buy an individual health insurance policy just like you did before obamacare came in effect, so please explain what you mean that you can't buy private individual insurance off of the exchange, because..... you can buy it.

you won't be subsidized if you qualify, and don't buy it on the exchange....but you can buy insurance all day long, OFF THE EXCHANGE G5000?

Can I buy health insurance from any health insurance company in the USA the same way I can buy my auto, home, and life insurance?

What does it communicate to you that if you want a subsidy you have to use a government exchange, therefore making it effectively cost preventative to buy it yourself without a government exchange?

For all intents and purposes, therefore, you have to buy it though the government.

And even if you do buy it on your own, you cannot decide NOT to buy it. You don't even have a choice what you can buy. You still have to meet government minimum standards.

Did you ever stop to ask yourself why all this is so?

Duhhhhh...government takeover? What government takeover?

 

[Care4all]

The penalty is deductible as a cost of doing business. The money paid to employees as compensation is deductible
Before Obamacare companies decided what and whether to offer. Now they must either offer hugely expensive plans or pay a penalty.
This at least frees up the company to offer its best employees more money etc to offset the insurance costs.

NO IT IS NOT DEDUCTIBLE!

The Employer Mandate Fee / Employer Shared Responsibility Payment

The annual employer mandate fee (officially called an Employer Shared Responsibility Payment) is a per employee fee for employers with over 50 full-time equivalent employees who don't offer health coverage to full-time employees.
• The employer mandate is based on full-time equivalent employees, not just full-time employees.
• The fee is based on whether or not you offer affordable health insurance to your employees that provides minimum value (explained below).
• In 2015 employers with more than 100 FTEs will need to cover 70% of their full-time employees. By 2016 employers with more than 50 FTEs will need to provide coverage to "substantially all" (95%) their full-time employees.
• The annual fee is $2,000 per employee if insurance isn't offered (the first 30 full-time employees are exempt).
• If at least one full-time employee receives a premium tax credit because coverage is either unaffordable or does not cover 60 percent of total costs, the employer must pay the lesser of $3,000 for each of those employees receiving a credit or $750 for each of their full-time employees total.
• The fee is a per month fee due annually on employer federal tax returns starting in 2015 for small businesses with 100 or more full-time equivalent employees(2016 for those with 50-99). So the per month fee is 1/12 of the $2,000 or $3,000 per employee.


• Unlike employer contributions to employee premiums, the Employer Shared Responsibility Payment is not tax deductible.


• Transition relief is available to small businesses and large businesses transitioning into compliance with the new mandate. Please see the official IRS rules regarding transition relief here.
• The Internal Revenue Service has more information about the Employer Shared Responsibility Payment.

in addition to this the employee can not get individual health care insurance for $350 a month.... you are giving him a paycut....

PLUS you have to pay employer share of Social security and Medicare taxes on the $350 a month and the employee will end up with about $250 or less...once he pays SS and medicare taxes and federal income taxes and state income taxes etc...where as employer purchased health insurance, is tax deductible for the employer, the employer pays no Added SS and medicare taxes for it and employees actually gets a benefit, instead of employer just handing over $2000 a head to the gvt for nothing in return, and no tax deduction for this expense....

sounds like a real dumb decision for your friend

I'll give you his email address and you can explain why you have superior knowledge and experience.
You do have experience managing health care policies and benefits for a small company, right?

I have never managed a corporation's health care policies, though I have had the benefit of them, but I do know numbers, and the numbers quoted, don't make sense, and not all consequences of acting in that manner have been thought through...

let alone the fact that he will lose good talent...to the competition, will not get a business expense write off for the $1 million dollar penalty just handed over to the gvt with no benefit to the employer's beloved employees, will not provide enough money for his employees to buy health insurance, will have to pay the extra social security taxes and medicare taxes for the employer on the $350.00 a month, and the employee will also be taxed on this money....it's a lose- lose, all the way around for the employees and the employer...the gvt on the other hand, makes out nicely....

 

[Kosh]

NO IT IS NOT DEDUCTIBLE!

in addition to this the employee can not get individual health care insurance for $350 a month.... you are giving him a paycut....

PLUS you have to pay employer share of Social security and Medicare taxes on the $350 a month and the employee will end up with about $250 or less...once he pays SS and medicare taxes and federal income taxes and state income taxes etc...where as employer purchased health insurance, is tax deductible for the employer, the employer pays no Added SS and medicare taxes for it and employees actually gets a benefit, instead of employer just handing over $2000 a head to the gvt for nothing in return, and no tax deduction for this expense....

sounds like a real dumb decision for your friend

I'll give you his email address and you can explain why you have superior knowledge and experience.
You do have experience managing health care policies and benefits for a small company, right?

I have never managed a corporation's health care policies, though I have had the benefit of them, but I do know numbers, and the numbers quoted, don't make sense, and not all consequences of acting in that manner have been thought through...

let alone the fact that he will lose good talent...to the competition, will not get a business expense write off for the $1 million dollar penalty just handed over to the gvt with no benefit to the employer's beloved employees, will not provide enough money for his employees to buy health insurance, will have to pay the extra social security taxes and medicare taxes for the employer on the $350.00 a month, and the employee will also be taxed on this money....it's a lose- lose, all the way around for the employees and the employer...the gvt on the other hand, makes out nicely....

Apparently you did not get the memo on why the unions are upset with Obamacare..

 

[Care4all]

Haven't you ObamaCare dipshits ever stopped to wonder why you have to buy your insurance through a government exchange if you don't get insurance from your job?

Duhhhhh...government takeover? What government takeover?


Why can't you buy insurance the same way you buy home, auto, or life insurance? Did you ever wonder about that?

you can buy it without going on to the exchange... you can buy an individual health insurance policy just like you did before obamacare came in effect, so please explain what you mean that you can't buy private individual insurance off of the exchange, because..... you can buy it.

you won't be subsidized if you qualify, and don't buy it on the exchange....but you can buy insurance all day long, OFF THE EXCHANGE G5000?

Can I buy health insurance from any health insurance company in the USA the same way I can buy my auto, home, and life insurance?

What does it communicate to you that if you want a subsidy you have to use a government exchange, therefore making it effectively cost preventative to buy it yourself without a government exchange?

For all intents and purposes, therefore, you have to buy it though the government.

And even if you do buy it on your own, you cannot decide NOT to buy it. You don't even have a choice what you can buy. You still have to meet government minimum standards.

Did you ever stop to ask yourself why all this is so?

Duhhhhh...government takeover? What government takeover?

In the sense that auto insurance is mandatory, but other than a minimum requirement from each state, you can buy as much or as little auto insurance coverage as you may want....

However, you are right, that individual health insurance is too costly for most people....and thus the use of the exchange for those in need of subsidy.

people who had money, bought and buy individual health care on the individual market, before and after Obamacare....

 

[francoHFW]

Thank God we finally have transparent competition and subsidies on exchanges. Finally the costs are affordable and their cost curve will bend down. Of course that's not a gov't takeover, just regulation. Did the gov't take over the car industry, or food? Thank god we have gov't to regulate a-hole Pub crony businesses...read a history book. I'm reading one on TR and the monopolies of the Gilded Age, the last time our economy was so unfair. see sig. And you chumps want to give away all that progress. Ignorant idiocy.

 

[Political Junky]

After seeing how well our government handled the VA...

You sure it is such a great idea?

Sure? of course not. But evidence suggests that it can and does work in other countries. But we have seen that a private based system doesn't work for everyone.

Government run healthcare "doesn't work for everyone".

Who doesn't it work for and why?

 

[jillian]

ACA is basically the Nixon, Dole, Heritage plan. Just shows how mindlessly obstructionist the new bs GOP is, and what a joke our corporate media is...

How does the original source of the idea make it any better/worse of an idea?

The us versus them mentality won't give you a straight answer to that one.

projecting again, huh?

 

[Freewill]

The problem is that even if you don't like the company paying benefits it was a condition of employment. It is no different being supplement for health care then it is to be paid more. Would those who think the company should not contribute to health care also think they should be able to just drop wages to increase profit.

My company is dropping all retirees on 12/31/2014. They were giving a little bit to those on Medicare to defray those costs, not no more. They lied and said that Obamacare would be cheaper. Which is true if someone is making less then about 64K which I don't think it would effect those retiring today. They use Obamacare as an excuse but they are just lying.

 

[thereisnospoon]

A friend of mine is the benefits manager for a small company (500 employees). He tells me as of 12/31 they will no longer offer health insurance. Why?
Well, currently they spend $4M/yr on health coverage for their employees. The employees kick in another 1.5M. By dropping coverage he pays the $1M penalty. But in return he can give each employee $350/mo towards their own coverage and still come out ahead. Some employees can get more even more if the company wants to keep them. The lower paid employees can qualify for gov't subsidies, which they couldnt before because the company offered a health plan. ANd between subsidies and employer contribution they can pick exactly the coverage they want, so better for them.
All in all it's a win win for employer and employee. But since this is a zero sum game the loser is of coure the taxpayer, who will be subsidizing all the lower paid employees who dont have coverage from their jobs.
This will of course drive up the cost of Obamacare astronomically.

Every company similiarly situated is doing exactly the same analysis and they will come to exactly the same concliusions: cheaper to kick employees off the plan and just pay them a little extra.

Hence, the reason for the "gap". This was by design. The ACA had in it written provisions that deliberately permitted employers to drop coverage, pay a lower fine than the cost of insuring the workers so that the workers would then be forced to rely on government for their health insurance. Real slick.

 

[thereisnospoon]

A friend of mine is the benefits manager for a small company (500 employees). He tells me as of 12/31 they will no longer offer health insurance. Why?
Well, currently they spend $4M/yr on health coverage for their employees. The employees kick in another 1.5M. By dropping coverage he pays the $1M penalty. But in return he can give each employee $350/mo towards their own coverage and still come out ahead. Some employees can get more even more if the company wants to keep them. The lower paid employees can qualify for gov't subsidies, which they couldnt before because the company offered a health plan. ANd between subsidies and employer contribution they can pick exactly the coverage they want, so better for them.
All in all it's a win win for employer and employee. But since this is a zero sum game the loser is of coure the taxpayer, who will be subsidizing all the lower paid employees who dont have coverage from their jobs.
This will of course drive up the cost of Obamacare astronomically.

Every company similiarly situated is doing exactly the same analysis and they will come to exactly the same concliusions: cheaper to kick employees off the plan and just pay them a little extra.

Yep. The law of unintended consequences coupled with top bottom govt.

There is nothing unintended about this shit.
ACA is set up for failure. The goal is to have democrats say "ok, we screwed up. Now we have this for you. Universal health insurance.....and it's so good, we will make it mandatory."
Pricks.
This is why it is essential the GOP win the Senate in November.