Company Dumps Healthcare Plan

[Kosh]

There many people from the socialized medicine countries coming to the US to get better treatment, why would you need to poll to prove that?

There are also more US citizens getting healthcare in other countries because it is way to expensive here.

You mean those that do not have insurance?

 

[Kosh]

The Right claims that the left is anti-business. Yet, this country is the only country in the world that burdens business with the cost of at least 50% of single employee group health insurance, which makes it unaffordable for employers to keep manufacturing jobs in the USA. They can build a Ford plant in Mexico, where there is no such burden to provide health insurance for the employees. BTW, I live in the Santa Cruz River Valley, and there is a freight train crossing from Nogales every other night completely full of Fords made in Mexico.

And the Right LIKES it that way.

NAFTA was signed by Clinton..

 

[g5000]

The ideal outcome would be for every company in America to discontinue their employer-sponsored health insurance plans.

Perhaps the Right has been approaching ObamaCare all wrong. Perhaps we should work with Democrats to increase the mandatory minimum requirements for health insurance sponsored by employers.

We should add amendments to ObamaCare to require liposuction coverage. And facelifts. And hair implants. And grief counseling when a family pet dies. And twice a year doctor appointments to update medical health directives. And so forth. Just pile and pile and pile that shit on until it becomes so cost prohibitive, every employer everywhere just dumps the idea of company health plans altogether.

Then we will be that much closer toward everyone buying their health insurance the same way they buy their auto, home, and life insurance.

 

[KissMy]

There many people from the socialized medicine countries coming to the US to get better treatment, why would you need to poll to prove that?

There are also more US citizens getting healthcare in other countries because it is way to expensive here.

You mean those that do not have insurance?

Yes a lot of uninsured & self insured are going abroad. But so are insured people. Most dental insurance has coverage gaps. Elective & cosmetic surgery is not covered.

 

[Vandalshandle]

The Right claims that the left is anti-business. Yet, this country is the only country in the world that burdens business with the cost of at least 50% of single employee group health insurance, which makes it unaffordable for employers to keep manufacturing jobs in the USA. They can build a Ford plant in Mexico, where there is no such burden to provide health insurance for the employees. BTW, I live in the Santa Cruz River Valley, and there is a freight train crossing from Nogales every other night completely full of Fords made in Mexico.

And the Right LIKES it that way.

NAFTA was signed by Clinton..

it does have a damned thing to do with NAFTA. The Right is encouraging business to leave the USA to avoid the cost of Health insurance, which makes them uncompetitive in the world market, because no other country puts that burden on business.

 

[Listening]

The ideal outcome would be for every company in America to discontinue their employer-sponsored health insurance plans.

Perhaps the Right has been approaching ObamaCare all wrong. Perhaps we should work with Democrats to increase the mandatory minimum requirements for health insurance sponsored by employers.

We should add amendments to ObamaCare to require liposuction coverage. And facelifts. And hair implants. And grief counseling when a family pet dies. And twice a year doctor appointments to update medical health directives. And so forth. Just pile and pile and pile that shit on until it becomes so cost prohibitive, every employer everywhere just dumps the idea of company health plans altogether.

I agree that we need some kind of testing is in order for libs. They should have to pass some kind of I.Q. test in order to have children. I guess that is somewhat self regulating....I've notice a lot of my lib assoiciates are not having kids.....probably don't know how.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The Right claims that the left is anti-business. Yet, this country is the only country in the world that burdens business with the cost of at least 50% of single employee group health insurance, which makes it unaffordable for employers to keep manufacturing jobs in the USA. They can build a Ford plant in Mexico, where there is no such burden to provide health insurance for the employees. BTW, I live in the Santa Cruz River Valley, and there is a freight train crossing from Nogales every other night completely full of Fords made in Mexico.

And the Right LIKES it that way.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. NONE.

 

[g5000]

awwwww.... $350 to every employee for insurance that costs thousands.

how nice.

thanks for the "story". but good that you want to encourage companies to force us to pay for you freeloaders.... while crying and whining about efforts to get people covered by insurance in a manner they can afford.

typical rightwingnut idiocy.

What?? decoder required??!!

Allow me. I understand libspeak.

Someone who can afford to buy insurance but doesn't: Freeloader.

Someone who drops out of high school and expects everyone else to pay for their insurance: NOT a freeloader.


It is critical the "freeloaders" be forced to buy insurance, and then overcharged for that insurance, so the high school dropout can get free insurance.

It really, really, really pisses off liberals when this scheme doesn't work out.

 

[Vandalshandle]

There are also more US citizens getting healthcare in other countries because it is way to expensive here.

You mean those that do not have insurance?

Yes a lot of uninsured & self insured are going abroad. But so are insured people. Most dental insurance has coverage gaps. Elective & cosmetic surgery is not covered.

I live 35 miles from the border, and always have my dental work done in Mexico. I looked at dental plans but determined that my copays would be higher than the total cost in Mexico.

 

[Vandalshandle]

The Right claims that the left is anti-business. Yet, this country is the only country in the world that burdens business with the cost of at least 50% of single employee group health insurance, which makes it unaffordable for employers to keep manufacturing jobs in the USA. They can build a Ford plant in Mexico, where there is no such burden to provide health insurance for the employees. BTW, I live in the Santa Cruz River Valley, and there is a freight train crossing from Nogales every other night completely full of Fords made in Mexico.

And the Right LIKES it that way.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. NONE.

I KNOW that it makes no sense, which is why I have serious doubts about the IQ level on the Right. Ford has been paying more for employee health insurance per automobile produced that they have for steel since 1977. But they pay exactly $0 for health insurance for every car manufactured in other countries.

 

[bripat9643]

awwwww.... $350 to every employee for insurance that costs thousands.

how nice.

thanks for the "story". but good that you want to encourage companies to force us to pay for you freeloaders.... while crying and whining about efforts to get people covered by insurance in a manner they can afford.

typical rightwingnut idiocy.

That's $350/month, dingbat. My employers pays about $15,000/yr for it's share of my health insurance, do that wouldn't even make a dent in it.

 

[Care4all]

The large employer gets assessed at $2000-$3000 per employee per year, (as tax penalty) and this $2000-$3000 per employee is not tax deductible, as paying for insurance would be, and the large employer's employees would not be eligible for any subsidies if he offers them the $375 towards health insurance on the exchange, AND the $375 that he would give employees to buy insurance is also not tax deductible because the law states you must be buying the health insurance for the employee, not for the employee to buy their own, so the IRS would not allow that $375 as a deduction...they could just give them all a $375 raise, then that could be deductible, i suppose....

Most large companies offer health care insurance because their employees demand it, and when they go and get rid of the benefit, it is the beginning of their best employees to a mass exodus, of them leaving and going to companies that do offer it....

Before the Obama care mandate, large corporations could have dropped their insurance any time they wanted, or never have offered it in the first place....there was nothing stopping them, no penalties or any of that...yet most of them offered health care insurance....for recruiting the best employees.

Good luck to your friend's company!

The penalty is deductible as a cost of doing business. The money paid to employees as compensation is deductible
Before Obamacare companies decided what and whether to offer. Now they must either offer hugely expensive plans or pay a penalty.
This at least frees up the company to offer its best employees more money etc to offset the insurance costs.

NO IT IS NOT DEDUCTIBLE!

The Employer Mandate Fee / Employer Shared Responsibility Payment

The annual employer mandate fee (officially called an Employer Shared Responsibility Payment) is a per employee fee for employers with over 50 full-time equivalent employees who don't offer health coverage to full-time employees.
• The employer mandate is based on full-time equivalent employees, not just full-time employees.
• The fee is based on whether or not you offer affordable health insurance to your employees that provides minimum value (explained below).
• In 2015 employers with more than 100 FTEs will need to cover 70% of their full-time employees. By 2016 employers with more than 50 FTEs will need to provide coverage to "substantially all" (95%) their full-time employees.
• The annual fee is $2,000 per employee if insurance isn't offered (the first 30 full-time employees are exempt).
• If at least one full-time employee receives a premium tax credit because coverage is either unaffordable or does not cover 60 percent of total costs, the employer must pay the lesser of $3,000 for each of those employees receiving a credit or $750 for each of their full-time employees total.
• The fee is a per month fee due annually on employer federal tax returns starting in 2015 for small businesses with 100 or more full-time equivalent employees(2016 for those with 50-99). So the per month fee is 1/12 of the $2,000 or $3,000 per employee.


• Unlike employer contributions to employee premiums, the Employer Shared Responsibility Payment is not tax deductible.


• Transition relief is available to small businesses and large businesses transitioning into compliance with the new mandate. Please see the official IRS rules regarding transition relief here.
• The Internal Revenue Service has more information about the Employer Shared Responsibility Payment.

in addition to this the employee can not get individual health care insurance for $350 a month.... you are giving him a paycut....

PLUS you have to pay employer share of Social security and Medicare taxes on the $350 a month and the employee will end up with about $250 or less...once he pays SS and medicare taxes and federal income taxes and state income taxes etc...where as employer purchased health insurance, is tax deductible for the employer, the employer pays no Added SS and medicare taxes for it and employees actually gets a benefit, instead of employer just handing over $2000 a head to the gvt for nothing in return, and no tax deduction for this expense....

sounds like a real dumb decision for your friend

 

[Kosh]

Medical tourism resorts are big business. Mostly from US citizens.

A large number of medical tourists are immigrants to the United States returning to their home country for care. The most common procedures that people undergo on medical tourism trips include cosmetic surgery, dentistry, and heart surgery.

Top Destinations:
•India - Home to Worldclass orthopedic and cardiac surgeons. India medical tourism produces $2.3 Billion annually.
•Mexico - Mexico is famous for inexpensive weight loss surgeries and cosmetic surgeries.
•Singapore - Offers cancer and stem cell treatments.
•Barbados - Well-known fertility clinic is home in the West Indies island.
•Thailand - Thailand attracts 30,000 Americans each year for a whole host of procedures and surgeries. Thailand has many Joint Commission International accredited operators.
•Brazil - Home to top cosmetic surgeons in the World.
•Israel - Israel is known for IVF specialists, as well as other procedures.
•South Korea - Home to cosmetic surgeons, cancer and spinal treatments. South Korea has many Joint Commission International accredited facilities.
•Turkey - Many European, American trained doctors providing cardiac, cancer, orthopedic and laser eye surgeries.
•Other Countries Include Costa Rica, Antigua, Hungary.

 

[bripat9643]

A friend of mine is the benefits manager for a small company (500 employees). He tells me as of 12/31 they will no longer offer health insurance. Why?
Well, currently they spend $4M/yr on health coverage for their employees. The employees kick in another 1.5M. By dropping coverage he pays the $1M penalty. But in return he can give each employee $350/mo towards their own coverage and still come out ahead. Some employees can get more even more if the company wants to keep them. The lower paid employees can qualify for gov't subsidies, which they couldnt before because the company offered a health plan. ANd between subsidies and employer contribution they can pick exactly the coverage they want, so better for them.
All in all it's a win win for employer and employee. But since this is a zero sum game the loser is of coure the taxpayer, who will be subsidizing all the lower paid employees who dont have coverage from their jobs.
This will of course drive up the cost of Obamacare astronomically.

Every company similiarly situated is doing exactly the same analysis and they will come to exactly the same concliusions: cheaper to kick employees off the plan and just pay them a little extra.

Therein ^^^ is this truth: Companies and corporations are amoral - some CEOs, CFOs, etc. are immoral; and the Government has a duty to be ethical. We can fire elected government officials, but not those in the private sector who are immoral. Strange, isn't it.

Corporations don't point guns at people to achieve their aims. The government does. That makes corporations far more moral and ethical than any government. The later is indistinguishable from a gang of criminals.

What is "moral" or "ethical" about forcing 'A' to pay for 'B's healthcare?

 

[bripat9643]

All the more reason why healthcare shouldn't be tied to employment.

If this is a step towards single payer/universal healthcare then I applaud it. Anything that gets us closer to a healthcare system like every other industrialized nation is utilizing is a good thing.

Tying healthcare to the government is an even bigger mistake.

 

[bripat9643]

The company & their employees were paying $5.5 million. That was $916.66 a month per employee. That is way higher than other companies charge, including those on Obamacare exchanges. Looks like that greedy insurance company loses $5.5 million in revenue & Obamacare, the company & it's employees win.

You're ignoring the cost of the government subsidies, moron.

 

[g5000]

Haven't you ObamaCare dipshits ever stopped to wonder why you have to buy your insurance through a government exchange if you don't get insurance from your job?

Duhhhhh...government takeover? What government takeover?


Why can't you buy insurance the same way you buy home, auto, or life insurance? Did you ever wonder about that?

 

[bripat9643]

uh....and 1 million in fines.

Or did you miss that because you were so hell bent on criticizing someone for making some money?

That's another 167 per month. 350+167 equals $517.

Okay, so he's saving 150/month per employee by cutting their healthcare benefit.

You blame the man for doing what the law offered him?

Maybe if Pelosi and Obama gave everyone time to read the law.....

Never mind.

Im a racist. I get it.

You have to understand how liberals think. See, it's perfectly moral and ethical for the government to offer two options, but if you take one rather than the other, you're a scumbag. See how that works?

 

[The Rabbi]

OK to recap: companies will dump their employees on the Obamacare exchanges, costing the taxpayer trillions more in subsidies and likely delivering substandard benefits to what they previously had.
Are you OK with that?

Wrong!

You missed the post on Employer Shared Responsibility provisions didn't you?

It won't cost tax payers a dime if this company dumps it's employees healthcare coverage.

All companies with over 50 employees who are currently not paying for coverage will have to now cover their employees, thus saving tax payers money.

You're not very bright or well informed, are you?

 

[The Rabbi]

Weird, that's what you go to? Seriously? And I thought there were a few other posters with less critical thinking abilities than you, and you FINALLY proved me wrong on something!

Ironic coming frm a crack addict.

Tell me, how many Europeans turned down opportunities to get medical care here? Give me names and addresses or you've lost the debate!

"opportunities "

You mean MONEY? If you have money the US has the best (and most expensive) care in the world? Agreed! But you CAN'T give one poll EVER that a UHC nation wants US style H/C thanks

OK, so you can't provide even one. Just like I thought. When challenged you wimp out and change the subject, cracky.