Colorado judge strikes down AR-15 ban, and over 10 round magazine ban....good.

He'd have gone down to the hardware store and bought a twenty buck machete. The end result would have been just as horrific or even more. There was a lot more carnage in edged weapon battles than in firearm's ones.

Not really. tell you what... Let's get a bunch of mannequins, you take out as many as you can with a machette in five minutes, I'll take out as many as I can with an AR15...

I'll betcha I'll inflict damage on more of them.
I said just as horrific, run through a crowd slashing with an edged weapon and you get horrific results. If you did the same with any firearm, you'd get swarmed the first time you stopped for a magazine change. At close range I very much doubt you'd get nearly as many kills/injuries as the guy with the edged weapon.
 
Again -- your problem is with Government. The Government you refuse to hold accountable.

The funny part is, you want to give Government even more power over individual lives -- and you think everything will then be fine.

Says the guy who was spent most of his life sucking off the government teet.

The problem isn't government, the problem is government does exactly what we want them to. Nobody wins on the "let's try something else" platform. They get elected promising to punish people...
Yes, we know. You voted for Biden to "get" Trump supporters, because you want people who disagree with you dead.

And you wonder why people disagree with you, you freak.
 
But guns get misused. All I am trying to do is to agree with the "LAW" that limits the amount of ammo carried. That, alone, keeps the body count to a lower level when they ARE misused.

You have zero evidence to backup that claim.

That is logic. Let’s say I have a five shot revolver. Obviously I can’t shoot fifty people. At least not without reloading nine times.

Conversely if the revolver is a .357 Magnum, the damage done would be significantly worse than if I was using a less powerful cartridge of the type normally found in high capacity magazines.

And the damage from a .44 Magnum would be catastrophic by comparison.

That is something the focus on magazine capacity crew never understands. If High Capacity Mags are not available people will gravitate towards the more powerful cartridges again. A .308 is roughly speaking twice as powerful as a .223 and that means more damage to the person.

In fact a .30 cal rifle cartridge is probably going to be a through and through wound. In other words there is a good possibility that you will wound a second firing into a crowd.

But people don’t understand science. And ballistics as well as firearms are a science. Even pro gun people allow bias to influence them.

Which due to size of gun and cartridge size and weight limits the number of rounds available. In the Military, there is a huge size and power difference between an Assault Rifle (.556) versus a full blown Battle Rifle (7.62 or bigger). And the cost of the Battle Rifle (even in semi auto) will far exceed most fruitcake shooters pocket books. And trying to use a hunting version is just stupid.

Really? You do know with your extensive Military Experience that the 5.56 was chosen because it created “Militarily Significant Wounds” don’t you? The idea for the readers who don’t know is that one wounded soldier takes four people out of the battle. Two to carry the wounded and one to provide security, or carry excess equipment.

A dead guy takes one off the field. A wounded takes several. And the screams of the wounded demoralize the remaining soldiers. Making them less likely to be aggressive.

The other reason the 5.56 was chosen was suppression fire. Most rounds fired are meant to get the other guy to keep his head down. The 5.56 would allow the soldier to carry more ammo with the same weight.

How would the Las Vegas shooting have played out with a .308 hunting rifle? First. The slower fire would have delayed the discovery longer. Second. The numbers killed would probably have been higher. Third, by picking his shots he would have been able to hit one with a high likelihood of hitting two. I could go on.

In nearly all the mass shooting situations a different weapon would have done more damage. A shotgun in the school shootings. Two or more wounded with every trigger pull as one example.

The one thing the mass shootings have in common is the shooters use the technique of spray and pray. Random fire to maybe hit someone. By firing into crowds they increase the likelihood of hitting someone. But as statistics show roughly 10% of those hit actually die. If we are intending to save lives why do anything to increase the probability of someone dying?

A weapon is not a magic wand of death.

No it was chosen because it was a light and small round and soldiers could carry a lot of ammo.

In fact the military has long thought the 5.56 round was under powered and are currently reintroducing the 6.8 mm


The 6.8 can be fired from the AR. It's the same length of cartridge, just the cartridge and bullet are bigger diameter meaning a higher impact. It doesn't mean a higher velocity, in fact, it's a slight lower velocity. But the bullet throw weight is more meaning more shock.

As I said earlier. No understanding of science. Let’s talk about kinetic energy. One of the least understood types of energy. Although I doubt most people understand much about any of them.

Kinetic Energy is ruled by a math formula. Put simply. Energy is equal to 1/2 Mass times Velocity Squared. So the bigger bullet traveling slower would have less shock. Not more. It is why the .45 ACP has about the same kinetic energy of a 9MM despite weighing twice as much. The 9MM has a higher velocity.

Higher velocities also create larger temporary wound channels. In other words the tissue around the bullet hole that is stretched, bruised, and torn by the passing of high velocity materials.

This is from a Doctor who will explain it fairly well.



I know. You don’t believe the tumbling bullet. I am not going to spend the next several days educating you on science.

However. Let’s stick with bullet size and velocity.


The AK fires a bigger bullet. It should create a worse wound. Logically it would right? But here is where understanding the Math is vital. Because the bullet is slower the wound is not as bad. Remember when I said the 5.56 had satisfactory wound dynamics? Past of that equation is the temporary wound cavity. The tissue around the bullet path that is damaged or destroyed.

Now a faster bullet that is larger is much worse. The .50 BMG is both heavy and fast. So the wounds are much worse from that round.

There is a lot of science behind firearms and shooting. Until you understand that math it is hard to speak either accurately or logically on the subject. That by the way is why the 6.8 isn’t going to be adapted.


Wow, talk down to others much?

Much of the 5.56 will be spent on the background. But let's say it doesn't hit a vital organ. It will cause a shock as it passes. It's just enough. The 6.8 probably won't be adopted for a lot of reasons and wounds won't be one of the deciding factors. What they are trying to figure out is how to make the M-16 get a little further out and a heavier bullet is easier to control. Even though the 556 can do a shot out to 600 yds, it's actually only good out to about 300 yds. Even though the AK-47 is slower, and the trajectory will be higher, it can still do damage at 600 yds. The 6.8 can also go out to 600 yds with a better trajectory than the AK-47.
But most of the time, there will be at least one battle rifle (7.62) in the unit that can go out past 1000 yds in good hands. Trying to take any Assault Rifle against a Battle Rifle at 600 yds is pretty much suicide. But the Battle Rifle will be very tiresome to lug around and not have nearly as many rounds on the person. Most Battle Rifle shooters have weapons carriers carrying one ammo pack with them. That Ammo Grunt will also be carrying his own M-16. I don't see the 6.8 coming onto the line due to a lot of factors and most of them have been already stated by others in here. The 556 is just good enough.

The effective range for an M-16 is 600 yards for point targets and 800 for area.

Unless things have changed since the seventies when I served, the Army trains out to three hundred meters of aimed fire and the Marines train out to five hundred meters of aimed fire. Even at three hundred meters that light 5.56mm projectile is very susceptible to wind deflection.
 
No, it has not been taken yet. What they have in their gun bill now is forcing all gun purchasers to submit to a psychological exam at the cost of $800.00, get a federal license, and anybody you may have had a disagreement with can voice their opposition to you getting that license in which to buy that gun. It may be an ex-wife, an ex-girlfriend, a neighbor or family member. The shrink will be the one questioning these people, and I'm sure a lot of good people won't be able to get one, because the Democrats will likely choose who those shrinks are, which will be anti-gun leftists like themselves.

again, if you have a neighbor or a family member who says, "Holy Shit, that's guy's crazy", that sounds like a great reason to keep them from getting guns.

Every last time we have a mass shooting, we find out everyone in the guy's life KNEW he was crazy, and he was able to get a gun anyway.

Imagine what would have happened on Tuesday if the Massage Parlor Shooter had to pay $800.00 bucks and they asked his family who just threw him out for watching Porn if he should have a gun.
He'd have gone down to the hardware store and bought a twenty buck machete. The end result would have been just as horrific or even more. There was a lot more carnage in edged weapon battles than in firearm's ones.
But since people don't resist leftist tyranny with knives, the left doesn't give a shit.
 
They just have to pay a 200 tax.

Yea, that's a bullshit rule. The political left is determined to DESTROY this nation and they're getting the job done!
They seem to be on a tear these days but if they come for 2A with those two abominations that Feinstein and Jackson-Lee put together, I think they are going to realize it was a bridge too far. Of course, their intent is to ultimately disarm those who resist them but for the short term, they can silence dissent by making millions of us overnight Felons. If we know we would be railroaded into a prison cell we'd be a lot less likely to speak out against them. Marxism 101.
Hopefully, the states that still want to be ruled constitutionally will join together to demand their local state LEOs refuse to help with this power grab. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced that all red state governments will risk the loss of Pork just to do the right thing for their citizens. Oh well, we all make choices. They come for the guns, no amount of cash from Uncle Sugar will make up for the chaos that will follow.

What "power grab"? Who is this "they"? Who are you going to shoot at? This is not understandable. Ten dead today. Eight on Tuesday. How many mass shootings do we Americans have to endure? We don't have to fight the British anymore. Now we have a standing military. What is this "marxism" stuff about? This sounds like some right-wing trash stuff. Shame on you. Bottom line: whom do you feel you have to fight? Other Americans? Or are you anticipating some sort of invasion from a foreign country? Explain, please. You seem to be living in some sort of fantasy in which you are a "hero."


Who cares? Just pretend that they were all dead, black, Chicago, youths and then you will no longer give a ****. You're welcome.

Why are you such a COWARD that you cannot live in the United States with your fellow Americans? Who in the hell are you going to shoot at? Dumbshit. You are very scared. I'm not. I don't live in Chicago and I'm not black. Are you some white-trash boy in Alabama scared of your own shadow? Are you a putin's poodle hiding under the bed with some wispy beard thinking you're a "soldier"? Sounds like. try and grow up.
The point he was making and that you ignored, is that those numbers are eclipsed in Chicago each and every week and people like you just ignore the carnage.
 
He'd have gone down to the hardware store and bought a twenty buck machete. The end result would have been just as horrific or even more. There was a lot more carnage in edged weapon battles than in firearm's ones.

Not really. tell you what... Let's get a bunch of mannequins, you take out as many as you can with a machette in five minutes, I'll take out as many as I can with an AR15...

I'll betcha I'll inflict damage on more of them.
Pissing your pants won't hurt anybody.
 
we need to enforce our federal guns laws.

When Richmond VA did the murder rate was cut almost in half

Criminal control is what makes the difference

No, we need to hold the gun industry accountable.

The law we need to pass, allowing the victims of gun violence to hold gun sellers and manufacturers responsible when they sell to people who shouldn't own guns.
The problem with that is that gun shop owners are already held responsible for selling to people not qualified. They can lose their licenses and go to jail for for that crime. As fir the gun manufacturers, the laws are even stricter for them. Every gun they sell HAS to go to a licensed dealer or to a country with a valid end-user certificate issued by the US government. The restrictions on the manufactures are even stricter than on the government. I had a reason to look up the procedures of the Civilian Marksmanship Program for selling M-1s and other surplus rifles and they can sell and ship to me at my home address without my having a FFL. Oh and I can buy up to seven guns a year from them.
 
Colorado judge strikes down AR-15 ban, and over 10 round magazine ban....good.

Any bets on what yesterday's shooter used?

I bet it was an AR style rifle with a large capacity magazine. The gold standard for mass shootings all over the USA.

Define large capacity.

I don't own an AR but my Ruger came with a 20 round magazine which is the standard size
My Ruger 10/22 came with a ten round one, but I've seen hundred round drums advertised. Personally, I can't see why anyone would need one, but it's a free country.
 
Maybe if you leftists would hold criminals accountable for their actions, it'd improve.

We lock up 2 million people and have another 7 million on probation or parole.
We are one of the last civilized countries that still has capital punishment.

If punishment was going to get us there, we'd have the lowest crime rates in the industrialized world, not the highest.


Shit head.....the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians keep releasing the violent gun offenders over and over again....so, you dipshit...it doesn't matter if you temporarily lock them up if you let them back out and then they shoot people...

You are such a dumb ass.
 
Then your beef is with the Federal agencies who conduct background checks, not with legal gun owners.

No, my beef is with the NRA and the gun makers who've made it impossible to conduct background checks.

But you don't dare criticize them. You want law-abiding Americans unable to resist your wished-for totalitarianism.

Again, guy, guns don't prevent totalitarianism. Never have, never will. Germany had a shit load of guns before Hitler came to power, despite attempts to limit gun ownership. Hitler actually loosened the gun laws (for Germans, not the Jews) and there were lots of guns in Germany, but the "Good Germans" never rose up.

Here's the reality... if the ATF came for you tomorrow, they'd get you. Most of your neighbors wouldn't get involved.

Here's an idea: Why don't you try disarming criminals first? You know, as a trial run. Let me know how it works out for you.

Here's an idea, how about we get the gun industry to stop flooding the streets with guns...


Shithead...every ******* gun store and licensed gun dealer has to do federal background checks.....you lying asshole.
 
But guns get misused. All I am trying to do is to agree with the "LAW" that limits the amount of ammo carried. That, alone, keeps the body count to a lower level when they ARE misused.

You have zero evidence to backup that claim.

That is logic. Let’s say I have a five shot revolver. Obviously I can’t shoot fifty people. At least not without reloading nine times.

Conversely if the revolver is a .357 Magnum, the damage done would be significantly worse than if I was using a less powerful cartridge of the type normally found in high capacity magazines.

And the damage from a .44 Magnum would be catastrophic by comparison.

That is something the focus on magazine capacity crew never understands. If High Capacity Mags are not available people will gravitate towards the more powerful cartridges again. A .308 is roughly speaking twice as powerful as a .223 and that means more damage to the person.

In fact a .30 cal rifle cartridge is probably going to be a through and through wound. In other words there is a good possibility that you will wound a second firing into a crowd.

But people don’t understand science. And ballistics as well as firearms are a science. Even pro gun people allow bias to influence them.

Which due to size of gun and cartridge size and weight limits the number of rounds available. In the Military, there is a huge size and power difference between an Assault Rifle (.556) versus a full blown Battle Rifle (7.62 or bigger). And the cost of the Battle Rifle (even in semi auto) will far exceed most fruitcake shooters pocket books. And trying to use a hunting version is just stupid.
Bullshit.

I have semiautomatic rifles chambered for 7.62 and 6.8 mm

They aren't that expensive

You are talking about a hunting rifle for the 308. What are you going to have, 5 in the mag and one in the tube? Now load 30 in the Mag. The Rifle is going to have to be strengthened to handle that mag and the whole gun is going to have to gain considerable weight. You just entered into a whole new world. It no longer functions as a hunting or a sporting rifle. It's become a battle rifle.
Wrong, the M-1A is a civilian version of the M-14 and was designed to handle a 20 round mag just like a M-16 or AR-15 was, you can easily get 30 round M-1A mags cheaply, I just looked and they are thirty bucks each. The civilian version of the AK-47 handles a thirty round mag and the IMI Galil handles a 35 round mag. Unless you are humping the boonies all day the weight difference between 5.56 and 7.62 is inconsequential.

Wrong. The M-1A was made by Springfield for WWII. It was a gas operated Semi Auto that held 20 rounds and was the main firearm for grunts in WWII. It predates the M-14 which is a decendant of the M-1A. The M-1 was a Thompson Model 1920 that lead to the 1934 National Firearms act. The original Typewriter.

The version of the AR-15 or Model 6XX Colt was the Armalite AR-10 chambered for the 7.62 which lost out because of the weight. The same reason the M-14 lost out to the Colt Model 601 chambered for the 556. Lug an M-14 around for 20 hours a day and you are going to be one very tired puppy. And the normal rounds in both the M-14 and the M-16 are both 20 rounds. That 30 round mag won't hold up in the M-16 in the rough and tumble world of Combat. Sooner rather than later, you are going to bend it.
 
we need to enforce our federal guns laws.

When Richmond VA did the murder rate was cut almost in half

Criminal control is what makes the difference

No, we need to hold the gun industry accountable.

The law we need to pass, allowing the victims of gun violence to hold gun sellers and manufacturers responsible when they sell to people who shouldn't own guns.
The problem with that is that gun shop owners are already held responsible for selling to people not qualified. They can lose their licenses and go to jail for for that crime. As fir the gun manufacturers, the laws are even stricter for them. Every gun they sell HAS to go to a licensed dealer or to a country with a valid end-user certificate issued by the US government. The restrictions on the manufactures are even stricter than on the government. I had a reason to look up the procedures of the Civilian Marksmanship Program for selling M-1s and other surplus rifles and they can sell and ship to me at my home address without my having a FFL. Oh and I can buy up to seven guns a year from them.

Not the M-1 (thompson Model 1920) and the M-14. Both are fully automatics. You are partially correct about the M1A and M1A1 since they are semi autos. But most states require them to be shipped to a gun dealer where you will have to go through a background check to pick them up.
 
Colorado judge strikes down AR-15 ban, and over 10 round magazine ban....good.

Any bets on what yesterday's shooter used?

I bet it was an AR style rifle with a large capacity magazine. The gold standard for mass shootings all over the USA.
and every single one was on the FBI's watch dog list, but they're to busy watching guys like me.
Why would they be watching you?
free white and 21
 
Please explain why this is so important to you to have an AR-15. We had guns in the house in leather locked bags and we shot them. I even pulled the trigger when my father sighted. He taught me to never pull a gun on any living being. I violated this teaching once, in Castroville, Texas, when I was 12 and practicing with my aunt's pistol. I shot at a spider on the back of the garage.

Explain yourself and why you would need an assault weapon.
Explain what an assault weapon is ?

Who cares at this point. If you love this shit, YOU COME UP WITH A SOLUTION. Over to you. Growing up, we were responsible with guns and my father taught gun safety: never point it at another sentient creature. We didn't grow up scared, so don't give me your horseshit.
And dodge the question.
 
Colorado judge strikes down AR-15 ban, and over 10 round magazine ban....good.

Any bets on what yesterday's shooter used?

I bet it was an AR style rifle with a large capacity magazine. The gold standard for mass shootings all over the USA.
and every single one was on the FBI's watch dog list, but they're to busy watching guys like me.
Why would they be watching you?
free white and 21
No.
 
Colorado judge strikes down AR-15 ban, and over 10 round magazine ban....good.

Any bets on what yesterday's shooter used?

I bet it was an AR style rifle with a large capacity magazine. The gold standard for mass shootings all over the USA.
and every single one was on the FBI's watch dog list, but they're to busy watching guys like me.
Why would they be watching you?
free white and 21
No.
Well, would you believe I was in Dallas on Nov 23, 1963
 
15th post
But guns get misused. All I am trying to do is to agree with the "LAW" that limits the amount of ammo carried. That, alone, keeps the body count to a lower level when they ARE misused.

You have zero evidence to backup that claim.

That is logic. Let’s say I have a five shot revolver. Obviously I can’t shoot fifty people. At least not without reloading nine times.

Conversely if the revolver is a .357 Magnum, the damage done would be significantly worse than if I was using a less powerful cartridge of the type normally found in high capacity magazines.

And the damage from a .44 Magnum would be catastrophic by comparison.

That is something the focus on magazine capacity crew never understands. If High Capacity Mags are not available people will gravitate towards the more powerful cartridges again. A .308 is roughly speaking twice as powerful as a .223 and that means more damage to the person.

In fact a .30 cal rifle cartridge is probably going to be a through and through wound. In other words there is a good possibility that you will wound a second firing into a crowd.

But people don’t understand science. And ballistics as well as firearms are a science. Even pro gun people allow bias to influence them.

Which due to size of gun and cartridge size and weight limits the number of rounds available. In the Military, there is a huge size and power difference between an Assault Rifle (.556) versus a full blown Battle Rifle (7.62 or bigger). And the cost of the Battle Rifle (even in semi auto) will far exceed most fruitcake shooters pocket books. And trying to use a hunting version is just stupid.

Really? You do know with your extensive Military Experience that the 5.56 was chosen because it created “Militarily Significant Wounds” don’t you? The idea for the readers who don’t know is that one wounded soldier takes four people out of the battle. Two to carry the wounded and one to provide security, or carry excess equipment.

A dead guy takes one off the field. A wounded takes several. And the screams of the wounded demoralize the remaining soldiers. Making them less likely to be aggressive.

The other reason the 5.56 was chosen was suppression fire. Most rounds fired are meant to get the other guy to keep his head down. The 5.56 would allow the soldier to carry more ammo with the same weight.

How would the Las Vegas shooting have played out with a .308 hunting rifle? First. The slower fire would have delayed the discovery longer. Second. The numbers killed would probably have been higher. Third, by picking his shots he would have been able to hit one with a high likelihood of hitting two. I could go on.

In nearly all the mass shooting situations a different weapon would have done more damage. A shotgun in the school shootings. Two or more wounded with every trigger pull as one example.

The one thing the mass shootings have in common is the shooters use the technique of spray and pray. Random fire to maybe hit someone. By firing into crowds they increase the likelihood of hitting someone. But as statistics show roughly 10% of those hit actually die. If we are intending to save lives why do anything to increase the probability of someone dying?

A weapon is not a magic wand of death.

No it was chosen because it was a light and small round and soldiers could carry a lot of ammo.

In fact the military has long thought the 5.56 round was under powered and are currently reintroducing the 6.8 mm


I joined the Army in 1988. The articles I saw in gun magazines then, and since, were that the Military was switching from the 5.56 to some other round. Since that time, the beginnings of the A2 era, every couple years it is another weapon or ammo that will replace the M-16 or the 5.56.

They remain.

Why? NATO is a part of it. Our allies have the same ammo so we can supply each other in case of war. The same 5.56 round we use is able to be used in literally dozens of rifle types by a hundred countries.


The other part is that the same factors that led to our decisions before remain. Weight of weapon. Weight of ammo. Effectiveness. Reliability. And wound dynamics. The 5.56 checks the blocks.
The reel place the 5.56 comes up short is range. That's why the M-14 was reintroduced in Afghanistan in some units, The AKs were outranging the M-4s.

Oh great. Another one who is an expert with flawed information.

The average rifleman still carries the M-4 or M-16A4 because the factors that made it a good choice remain true today. Those who carry the M-14’s are snipers. The heavier round is more accurate at longer ranges. The semi-automatic weapon is faster to fire than the bolt action rifle of my own era. It is not a common issue rifle for the average soldier. It is used by the long range shooters for obvious reasons.

A Squad and Platoon has a mix of weapons. Because someone carries the light automatic weapon chambered for the 5.56 cartridge does not mean it is going to be given to everyone.

A mix of weapons gives the squad and platoon leadership tools to deal with various situations. Grenade Launchers, Machine Guns, Rifles, Squad Automatic Weapons, Anti-Armor. The mix gives the unit flexibility.

In my day as a Combat Engineer our squad was armed as follows. A M-60 Machine Gun. 2 M-203 40 MM Grenade Launchers attached to rifles. Everyone else had standard M-16A2 rifles. Each Squad also had a M-67 90MM Recoilless Rifle. The Lieutenant and the Machine Gunners were also issued M-9 Pistols.

We did not have snipers. We were a unit of Combat Engineers. But we were combat troops so we had enough firepower to deal with most situations we were liable to get into. We normally broke off into squads and supported Infantry Companies on attacks or defense.

Each unit has a mix of weapons. Just as each unit brings something to the party. Combined Arms means using these various parts to creat a whole that is much more than the sum of the parts.
 
But guns get misused. All I am trying to do is to agree with the "LAW" that limits the amount of ammo carried. That, alone, keeps the body count to a lower level when they ARE misused.

You have zero evidence to backup that claim.

That is logic. Let’s say I have a five shot revolver. Obviously I can’t shoot fifty people. At least not without reloading nine times.

Conversely if the revolver is a .357 Magnum, the damage done would be significantly worse than if I was using a less powerful cartridge of the type normally found in high capacity magazines.

And the damage from a .44 Magnum would be catastrophic by comparison.

That is something the focus on magazine capacity crew never understands. If High Capacity Mags are not available people will gravitate towards the more powerful cartridges again. A .308 is roughly speaking twice as powerful as a .223 and that means more damage to the person.

In fact a .30 cal rifle cartridge is probably going to be a through and through wound. In other words there is a good possibility that you will wound a second firing into a crowd.

But people don’t understand science. And ballistics as well as firearms are a science. Even pro gun people allow bias to influence them.

Which due to size of gun and cartridge size and weight limits the number of rounds available. In the Military, there is a huge size and power difference between an Assault Rifle (.556) versus a full blown Battle Rifle (7.62 or bigger). And the cost of the Battle Rifle (even in semi auto) will far exceed most fruitcake shooters pocket books. And trying to use a hunting version is just stupid.

Really? You do know with your extensive Military Experience that the 5.56 was chosen because it created “Militarily Significant Wounds” don’t you? The idea for the readers who don’t know is that one wounded soldier takes four people out of the battle. Two to carry the wounded and one to provide security, or carry excess equipment.

A dead guy takes one off the field. A wounded takes several. And the screams of the wounded demoralize the remaining soldiers. Making them less likely to be aggressive.

The other reason the 5.56 was chosen was suppression fire. Most rounds fired are meant to get the other guy to keep his head down. The 5.56 would allow the soldier to carry more ammo with the same weight.

How would the Las Vegas shooting have played out with a .308 hunting rifle? First. The slower fire would have delayed the discovery longer. Second. The numbers killed would probably have been higher. Third, by picking his shots he would have been able to hit one with a high likelihood of hitting two. I could go on.

In nearly all the mass shooting situations a different weapon would have done more damage. A shotgun in the school shootings. Two or more wounded with every trigger pull as one example.

The one thing the mass shootings have in common is the shooters use the technique of spray and pray. Random fire to maybe hit someone. By firing into crowds they increase the likelihood of hitting someone. But as statistics show roughly 10% of those hit actually die. If we are intending to save lives why do anything to increase the probability of someone dying?

A weapon is not a magic wand of death.

No it was chosen because it was a light and small round and soldiers could carry a lot of ammo.

In fact the military has long thought the 5.56 round was under powered and are currently reintroducing the 6.8 mm


I joined the Army in 1988. The articles I saw in gun magazines then, and since, were that the Military was switching from the 5.56 to some other round. Since that time, the beginnings of the A2 era, every couple years it is another weapon or ammo that will replace the M-16 or the 5.56.

They remain.

Why? NATO is a part of it. Our allies have the same ammo so we can supply each other in case of war. The same 5.56 round we use is able to be used in literally dozens of rifle types by a hundred countries.


The other part is that the same factors that led to our decisions before remain. Weight of weapon. Weight of ammo. Effectiveness. Reliability. And wound dynamics. The 5.56 checks the blocks.
The reel place the 5.56 comes up short is range. That's why the M-14 was reintroduced in Afghanistan in some units, The AKs were outranging the M-4s.

Oh great. Another one who is an expert with flawed information.

The average rifleman still carries the M-4 or M-16A4 because the factors that made it a good choice remain true today. Those who carry the M-14’s are snipers. The heavier round is more accurate at longer ranges. The semi-automatic weapon is faster to fire than the bolt action rifle of my own era. It is not a common issue rifle for the average soldier. It is used by the long range shooters for obvious reasons.

A Squad and Platoon has a mix of weapons. Because someone carries the light automatic weapon chambered for the 5.56 cartridge does not mean it is going to be given to everyone.

A mix of weapons gives the squad and platoon leadership tools to deal with various situations. Grenade Launchers, Machine Guns, Rifles, Squad Automatic Weapons, Anti-Armor. The mix gives the unit flexibility.

In my day as a Combat Engineer our squad was armed as follows. A M-60 Machine Gun. 2 M-203 40 MM Grenade Launchers attached to rifles. Everyone else had standard M-16A2 rifles. Each Squad also had a M-67 90MM Recoilless Rifle. The Lieutenant and the Machine Gunners were also issued M-9 Pistols.

We did not have snipers. We were a unit of Combat Engineers. But we were combat troops so we had enough firepower to deal with most situations we were liable to get into. We normally broke off into squads and supported Infantry Companies on attacks or defense.

Each unit has a mix of weapons. Just as each unit brings something to the party. Combined Arms means using these various parts to creat a whole that is much more than the sum of the parts.
Well said.
 
The problem isn't government, the problem is government does exactly what we want them to. Nobody wins on the "let's try something else" platform. They get elected promising to punish people...

Only leftists vote that way, not us on the right.
 
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