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would that scene have to deal with what kevin calls "inter spieces erotica"?
btw before sunrise shits on before sunset!
Dan said:I shit on you!
They're both equal in my book. I identify more with Sunrise, obviously, because it was written by and for people in their early 20s, whereas Sunset is pretty clearly about heading into middle age. But, like I said, both were good.
The weirdest thing about Sunset: Julie Delpy is even prettier in Sunset than she was in Sunrise, but Ethan Hawke looks horrendous compared to the earlier film. He looks like a skeleton of himself, really.
Dan said:One more Clerks II-related comment: I'm in love with Rosario Dawson.
did you see Sunrise before sunset or was it the other way around? most people who seem to like sunset over sunrise saw sunset before sunrise. me i saw sunrise back when it first hit hbo in like 97-ish so i grew up with that one. sunrise just seem to flow better and seemed much more natural. a once in a lifetime meeting and night. the fact that left it open was good. did they meet again? did one not show? were they both no shows? that cliffhanger was great because you got to think about what you would do. with sunset i don't know it seemed contrived to me at least. they had to meet again. he had to write a book about it. like they had all these loose ends that they had to tie up. seemed forced. i also think sunrise was better because the city played a part in the story. the narrow streets and the old cemetary. all the wierd people you would meet in a night like that. the wierd actors on the bridge,the poet by the water etc. you really didn't have much of that in sunset. it felt like "we're in paris but that doesn't matter and lets rush through these points we have to hit to move the story along." why waste a location like that? julie delphy looked great in "killing zoe". better then sunset. ethan hawke looks like he's been on a herion binge.
she was great in "Kids" as well.
Dan said:I saw Sunrise quite a few years ago, probably '99 or '00. I actually don't prefer Sunset to Sunrise, I pretty much like them equally. I just don't think of them as two entirely separate entities, Sunset just seems like a peek back into these two characters' lives.
True, Sunset's story starts out pretty contrived (the circumstances as to their meeting probably could've been straight out of a '50s romance), but after that, I think it feels very realistic, actually way more than Sunrise.
Sure, they answered a lot of questions in Sunset, but they pose a lot, too. Do you think Jesse ended up staying in Paris with Celine? What does that mean for his wife? Will their relationship become romantic? The questions posed by the end of Sunrise were very tangible: will they meet when they said they would? Did one show and one not show? The questions posed by Sunset were more emotional ones.
I somewhat agree about Paris not having the same presence as Venice, but you also have to take into account the fact that they are together for an entire night in Sunrise, whereas Sunset takes place pretty much in real time. They only had about an hour and a half together, it would've been frivolous to introduce some secondary characters. Sunset was much more about the characters and how they had evolved, rather than their experience together, or their surroundings, which were definitely important in Sunrise. Add to that the fact that in Sunrise, both characters were on vacation, whereas in Sunset, Jesse was at the end of a stressful book tour, and Celine was just hanging out in her neighborhood, of course neither one of them would be as enthused with their surroundings as they were with Venice.
However, I don't think they necessarily wasted the location. You gotta at least admit that most of Sunset looks great.
Man, I could go on and on about Richard Linklater movies. Please tell me you've seen Slacker and/or Waking Life.
Dan said:Ugh, that movie grosses me out too much to enjoy her performance. Unless you're just referring to her looks, in which case, dude, she was like fifteen!!!!!!
i see your points but i still like sunrise better. i've seen his stuff and thanks to him we have kevin smith and so the circle of life is completed!
i haven't seen that movie since i was fifteen! but overall she was good in that. not so good in jossie and the pussycats
Dan said:Just got back from watching it, and my faith in Kevin Smith has been totally restored.
Part of me really expected this to be just a retread of all the jokes from the first one, but it's way more than that. If anything, I'd compare Clerks and Clerks II to Before Sunrise and Before Sunset: it's main concern is expanding on the two main characters and exploring where they are, now, ten years later.
There are more serious parts in this than the first one, but they all work really well, especially considering that the movie sort of exists in a somewhat cartoonish universe, more so than the first one. Jeff Anderson really hit it out of the park this time, Randal has a monologue toward the end of the movie that I dare say was almost moving. And the ending was great, completely ambiguous and giving you a whole lot to think about.
And it's funny as hell. Smith's funniest movie since the first Clerks, for sure (even though I liked Chasing Amy more, I thought Clerks was funnier), and his most vulgar. There's a particular scene that I don't want to spoil here that by all logic should've landed them an NC-17. The MPAA must've been in a very nice mood that day.
i haven't seen slacker in years (8-9?) but from what i remember it was alright. i saw clerks before slacker as well as dazed and a bunch of other indie films that praised it so when i saw it i was expecting a little bit more.
i'm not sure if i've seen walking life. sometimes i see stuff and it's not that memerable or i forget the title and have to search for it later on like "promise land". but it doesn't ring a bell.
I was actually gonna post a thread with this same topic when I saw that Joker beat me to it.
So, Dan... is it worth the full theater price or should we hit the matinee? I really want to see it, but I also fear sequels and tend to wait until I hear more personal reviews (i refuse to listen to 'paid' critics like Ebert & roper and the other puppets) with a few exceptions such as Pirates...
Matinee price:$5.25
Full theater price: $8.50
is it worth the extra $6.50? <---per ticket (edited to add this)
Dan said:Well, if you can make the matinee, I'd say go to that, anyway, six bucks is six bucks and it's not like you're taking it right out of Kevin Smith's pocket or anything.
But, for a real answer, I would gladly pay what I paid ($8.75) to see it again. If you're a fan of old-school Kevin Smith (Clerks-Chasing Amy), you'll at least think it's funny. The dialogue is some of the best he's ever written. But, the guy's actually able to write a good story, too. I know I rail against comedies that become dramas, but this one kinda/sorta does that. But, it definitely works. If the first Clerks was about trying to move on with your life, Clerks II is more about realizing the world has sort of already moved on without you, and learning to live with that. Though there are a few poignant moments, it's still a comedy at heart and there are more belly laughs in this than I can remember in any recent movie.
I don't guess it matters to you, Fuzzy, but be forewarned that this movie is probably Smith at his most vulgar, which is saying a lot. There is pretty much no onscreen sex, but lots of very graphic descriptions (the phrase "going ass-to-mouth" gets thrown around a lot).
I was honestly afraid to see this, first because it was a sequel, and second because I though Kevin Smith might have lost his touch. Back in my high school/early college days, I was the biggest Kevin Smith fan around, to the point that one of my most prized possessions was an autographed Chasing Amy poster (it's no big deal, you can order them off of his site). And, I can honestly say that not only was I not disappointed, it may probably be either my first or second favorite Kevin Smith movie ever.
Dan said:Waking Life was filmed using the rotoscope method, so you'd probably at least remember what it looked like. Here's a still (ironically featuring Jesse and Celine!):
doesn't look all that familiar. i'll keep an eye out for it though.
