Clearing up a misconception atheists have about practicing Christians

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Your leaders have more power than you know. Look at pat robertson and joel whatshisname. Jim baker. Very powerful

One thing i am curious about is if these guys noticed their "flock" (that they fleece for money) suddenly donating less due to sending their money to buy Bannon a boat, to buy lawyers for Trump that he didn't even pay, to Trump's retirement fund, etc. Thes people aren't rich. Surely some of the money Osteen was counting on for his next private jet went to one of the Trump cons instead, for example.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Or you could stop interpreting everything as a literal interpretation of instructions today.

Way ahead of you. Secular reform has been taking care of that for a few centuries.

 

[sealybobo]

No you guys like a leader who’s tough and makes the unpopular decisions. Reagan bush 2 and trump types.

We look at it this way. We pay attention to the candidates who make promises to do this or to do that--things over which we as a citizen have no power. Election after election we see the person who takes power keeps very few--indeed if any--promises. I never could do a thing to get the Embassy moved to Jerusalem. I could not do a thing about regulations being piled on businesses. I could not do a thing about southern border security. I voted for someone who said he could. And he did. Not once did President Trump tell me what to do, he simply told me (and the nation) what he would do. We vote for people who actually do something, because we see ourselves as doers in our own minuscule part of this world, this life.

We tend not pay much attention to people who tell us all they are going to do for us...free health care, free college, free childcare, free birth control, free, free, free. We can take care of ourselves, our lives, our business just fine. We watch as government mostly makes a mess of their real responsibilities to this nation. They cannot even get along with one another--weaklings unless everyone marches in lockstep with one opinion.

The Democrat machine in particular shone a light on how weak they are. They couldn't work with, let alone assist, a non-politician who stepped into the Presidency. Shame on them.

How about affordable healthcare, clean air, better wages and social security?

 

[Penelope]

No you guys like a leader who’s tough and makes the unpopular decisions. Reagan bush 2 and trump types.

We look at it this way. We pay attention to the candidates who make promises to do this or to do that--things over which we as a citizen have no power. Election after election we see the person who takes power keeps very few--indeed if any--promises. I never could do a thing to get the Embassy moved to Jerusalem. I could not do a thing about regulations being piled on businesses. I could not do a thing about southern border security. I voted for someone who said he could. And he did. Not once did President Trump tell me what to do, he simply told me (and the nation) what he would do. We vote for people who actually do something, because we see ourselves as doers in our own minuscule part of this world, this life.

We tend not pay much attention to people who tell us all they are going to do for us...free health care, free college, free childcare, free birth control, free, free, free. We can take care of ourselves, our lives, our business just fine. We watch as government mostly makes a mess of their real responsibilities to this nation. They cannot even get along with one another--weaklings unless everyone marches in lockstep with one opinion.

The Democrat machine in particular shone a light on how weak they are. They couldn't work with, let alone assist, a non-politician who stepped into the Presidency. Shame on them.

How about affordable healthcare, clean air, better wages and social security?

Those things are not as important as the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer!

 

[sealybobo]

Your leaders have more power than you know. Look at pat robertson and joel whatshisname. Jim baker. Very powerful

One thing i am curious about is if these guys noticed their "flock" (that they fleece for money) suddenly donating less due to sending their money to buy Bannon a boat, to buy lawyers for Trump that he didn't even pay, to Trump's retirement fund, etc. Thes people aren't rich. Surely some of the money Osteen was counting on for his next private jet went to one of the Trump cons instead, for example.

Two different cons. Plenty of suckers for both. Jim baker is now selling food rations for armagedon. He was selling corona cure but the bad old government shut that racket down.

 

[sealybobo]

No you guys like a leader who’s tough and makes the unpopular decisions. Reagan bush 2 and trump types.

We look at it this way. We pay attention to the candidates who make promises to do this or to do that--things over which we as a citizen have no power. Election after election we see the person who takes power keeps very few--indeed if any--promises. I never could do a thing to get the Embassy moved to Jerusalem. I could not do a thing about regulations being piled on businesses. I could not do a thing about southern border security. I voted for someone who said he could. And he did. Not once did President Trump tell me what to do, he simply told me (and the nation) what he would do. We vote for people who actually do something, because we see ourselves as doers in our own minuscule part of this world, this life.

We tend not pay much attention to people who tell us all they are going to do for us...free health care, free college, free childcare, free birth control, free, free, free. We can take care of ourselves, our lives, our business just fine. We watch as government mostly makes a mess of their real responsibilities to this nation. They cannot even get along with one another--weaklings unless everyone marches in lockstep with one opinion.

The Democrat machine in particular shone a light on how weak they are. They couldn't work with, let alone assist, a non-politician who stepped into the Presidency. Shame on them.

How about affordable healthcare, clean air, better wages and social security?

Those things are not as important as the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer!

Nothing republicans propose will shrink the gap between rich and poor.

They refused to go after illegal employers so deporting illegals and building a wall was all theater.

And the jobs they want to bring home they won’t pay good wages and the corporations won’t pay any taxes.

 

[Disir]

Seally--Christianity was a top down reltigion.

Or you could stop interpreting everything as a literal interpretation of instructions today.

Way ahead of you. Secular reform has been taking care of that for a few centuries.

Then your issue is not relevant.

 

[Meriweather]

How about affordable healthcare, clean air, better wages and social security?

How does Government go about "affordable" health care? They allow schools to place limits on those wishing to go into medicine to keep doctor salaries up. Pharmaceuticals raise their prices paving the way for government to raise taxes so that they can "help" those who cannot afford the rising prices. Don't talk to me about Social Security because both sets of my grandparents taught me why Roosevelt and his socialist agenda had it wrong. Oh, and currently how is the financial health of Social Security? Doesn't appear government handled that very well, does it. Let people take care of themselves. Let people take care of each other. That is our responsibility. The Federal government should be handling the country's relationships with other nations and making sure our roads and airways are safe and usable.

Government fails when it neglects its own duty and excuses itself by saying it is taking care of people's personal duties. That weakens people, and in the end it crumbles government.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Then your issue is not relevant.

What issue? Please be more specific. There are no mind readers, here.

Secular reform has been working on it for centuries. We haven't crossed the finish line, yet. See: Judge Barrett.

 

[Disir]

Then your issue is not relevant.

What issue? Please be more specific. There are no mind readers, here.

Secular reform has been working on it for centuries. We haven't crossed the finish line, yet. See: Judge Barrett.

Yep. You have crossed the finish line. The people you are talking to on this forum are not movers and shakers. They are ordinary people that do the best they can.

I'd like to say all of your issues with Christians are not really relevant.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yep. You have crossed the finish line. The people you are talking to on this forum are not movers and shakers. They are ordinary people that do the best they can.

Absolutely. But we are not just talking about them. But yes, via secular reform, we have made great strides.

What issues with Christians? Seems like you are the one with issues. I didn't attack Christians. But you have already started talking about me, just in case I do. That is neurosis on parade, friend.

But I am not going to be sucked into another one of your petty personal exchanges. Same thing with you, every single time. You even troll your own threads with it. Stay on topic in this one.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The only "issue" this atheist has with Christians is the same issue I have with any religious person or group. Hitchens said it well:

'Have your toys. Play with your toys and enjoy your toys. You are welcome to them. But do not try to make me play with the toys. Do not bring the toys to my house, and do not try to use force of government to make me or my family play with your toys.

Otherwise, carry on. Enjoy your toys. I won't stop you.'

As with any American (being that the US is the most religious of any first world country, by far), I know and love many Christians. Being that I live where the biggest population of Burmese outside of Myanmar live, the same goes for Buddhists. Jews, too. We seem to get along just fine.

 

[Disir]

Yep. You have crossed the finish line. The people you are talking to on this forum are not movers and shakers. They are ordinary people that do the best they can.

Absolutely. But we are not just talking about them. But yes, via secular reform, we have made great strides.

What issues with Christians? Seems like you are the one with issues. I didn't attack Christians. But you have already started talking about me, just in case I do. That is neurosis on parade, friend.

But I am not going to be sucked into another one of your petty personal exchanges. Same thing with you, every single time. You even troll your own threads with it. Stay on topic in this one.

Grow up, Fort Fun. You are the troll. That's your game. You couldn't help but run to the thread on Christianity.

 

[Disir]

You couldn't help but run to the thread on Christianity.

As anyone can see, there are literally thousands of threads on Christianity, just on this board. And I am in very few of them. So I will let the evidence judge your whiny horseshit. Thanks, though.

Yep, there are. thousands of threads on Christianity on this board. You just troll the ones that you are on.


I miss Hitchens and other atheist stalwarts of that time period. The debates that were carried out then were actual debates. They served a purpose. These were conversations that were carried on for years. Those days are gone.

You aren't good enough to be classified in them. I wish you were.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And let's not skip the elephant in the room:

Christianity and the Western world benefitted from sweeping, secular reform that missed the Muslim world. We can watch the experimental group vs. the control group in real time. We can easily see the stark difference in the prevalence of fundamentalism in these two groups. 1000 years ago, they were much more similar in their fundamentalism. Then better, secular ideas came along in the Western world. Their progress was aided both by a better standard of living and by literacy. The fundamental religious ideas that kept feudalism and slavery in place in the western world were slowly replaced by better, secular ideas, like scientific enlightenment, classical liberalism, and Socratic and Hellenistic thought.

And one cannot notice this divergence in historical paths without also noting the difference in messages between Christianity and Islam. Christianity has a message of redemption that can be manipulated to support better morality and ethics and even classical liberalism. Islam is a death cult that offers no such message. So, in that sense, Christianity IS superior.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Personally, I was lucky enough to be born in the United States in the late 20th century (as opposed to 500 years ago).

I think this is on topic...

The differences between the two "methods" and their practice between the secular, scientific community and the religious community was made VERY clear to me at a young age (though, granted, my postage stamp-sized little world cannot be said with certainty to be a true representation of the entire nation or world). I was very into Cosmology and Astronomy and Biology at a very young age. Begged my parents for my first telescope at age 8 or so. I recall visiting a planetarium at a university and getting access to one of the professors on staff. I asked him about 100 questions, rapid fire, in a span of about 30 minutes. He was very patient with me and took no offense whatsoever to me saying things like, "That doesn't make any sense to me." He was kind and seemed to relish the opportunity to discuss the material with a curious, young "skeptic" who did not simply take things as true based on his authority. I was 12 years old.

A short time later, my parents enrolled me in Catechism class (Lutheran, Missouri Synod). I was actually kind of excited about it. I had so many questions about the Bible and about lessons I had been "dictated" in church and Sunday school, without any prior chances for questions or any interaction whatsoever. Instead, I was greeted with anger and ostracized by our head Pastor, whenever I *dared* to ask simple, honest questions, like:

"How could Noah POSSIBLY have fit 2 of every animal on the boat?"
"Why don't babies go to hell?"
"If Jesus could feed those people using miracles, why didn't he feed ALL the starving people of the world?"

These are simple questions one should expect a child to ask. One should have answers prepared for these questions. Instead, I was made to feel like even asking these questions was evil in and of itself. I was rebuffed and chastised for my curiosity and critical thought.

It occurred to me, even at that young age, that, possibly or even likely, the pastor threw his little fits because he didn't have a leg to stand on. While this did not make me doubt theism, it did make me step back and doubt the dogma not just in Christianity, but in all the religions. Such critical thought and skepticism has served me well to this day. So, I suppose the Good Pastor deserves a "thank you". What made me discard theism was ongoing education in the physical sciences. At first, I assumed we were just studying "God's creation". I slowly came to realize there was no need of the God hypothesis to explain anything we know or observe. We either know, or we admit we don't know and look for the answers using completely secular methods.

So, here I am today, an agnostic atheist. Sure, there might be gods. I could never say with 100% certainty that there are not. But I live each day without any need for that idea.

To circle back to the topic, I think a LOT of today's Christians are, for all practical purposes, secular in much the same way. They aren't using the idea of theism or the Christian dogma to make any important decisions in their lives on a daily basis.

 

[daveman]

Generally speaking, atheists don't want their misconceptions about Christians corrected.

Atheists have their own dogma which they follow religiously.

It’s called common sense, logic, reason.

Odd. You believe all these people lack logic and reason?

See, this is one of those misconceptions atheists in general and you in particular hold: That Christians are not as smart as atheists, that faith and science are incompatible.

That is simply incorrect.

Most Christians are pro choice or have had abortions Themselves. A lot of Christians aren’t “real” Christians. But you’ll take them. You’re just glad they say they believe the Jesus story. All the other stories are allegories but Mary really was a virgin.

Everyone is a sinner. Me, you, gays, straights, Christians, Jews, atheists, agnostics. Everybody. And everyone's sins are between them and God. I think the world would be a lot better place if everyone at least tried to sin less, but humans are...human. We make mistakes, and we choose to do wrong.

I don't claim anyone is not a "real" Christian. That's way above my pay grade.

You seem to have a lot of bitterness and rage towards Christians. Why?

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Everyone is a sinner.

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the cornerstone of christianity and who are not, sinners - they persecute and victimize even if only by thought of such being true is enough to compel them over the centuries to extract their displeasure through cruelty against them as the 1st century religious itinerant they claim then otherwise not to have understood.

Everyone is a sinner. I don't know what's so hard to accept about that simple statement.

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Everyone is a sinner. I don't know what's so hard to accept about that simple statement.

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- because you have resigned yourself to perish when your physiology expires.

You may have. I have not. I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

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Everyone is a sinner. I don't know what's so hard to accept about that simple statement.

the cornerstone of christianity and who are not, sinners - they persecute and victimize even if only by thought of such being true is enough to compel them over the centuries to extract their displeasure through cruelty against them

- because you have resigned yourself to perish when your physiology expires.

.

You may have. I have not. I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

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no sinner, those you persecute will ... but not you.

good luck to get a second chance - after renouncing your book of forgeries and fallacies.

I don't persecute anybody.

And you don't get to dictate what I believe.

Kinda sounds like you want to persecute Christians.

Breeze is worthless.

.

Ooooh, look at that. Hate for believers. I called it.

Breeze is worthless.

.
believers of books ...

you are so stupid it does not bear mentioning - your nonexistent original documents written corruptly in books you do not even know the language of to read them ... worthless is mountains above mental dereliction. d & i.

Believers in God.

Does it anger you that you've never been able to talk anyone out of their faith?

.

Does it anger you that you've never been able to talk anyone out of their faith?

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has it been tried -
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View attachment 456957
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christian, or shall we refer you for who you are - crucifier.

You'd think I'd remember if I'd ever crucified anyone.

So, yes, it obviously makes you angry that you've never been able to talk anyone out of their faith.

 

[daveman]

Generally speaking, atheists don't want their misconceptions about Christians corrected.

Atheists have their own dogma which they follow religiously.

It’s called common sense, logic, reason.

Odd. You believe all these people lack logic and reason?

See, this is one of those misconceptions atheists in general and you in particular hold: That Christians are not as smart as atheists, that faith and science are incompatible.

That is simply incorrect.

Most Christians are pro choice or have had abortions Themselves. A lot of Christians aren’t “real” Christians. But you’ll take them. You’re just glad they say they believe the Jesus story. All the other stories are allegories but Mary really was a virgin.

Everyone is a sinner. Me, you, gays, straights, Christians, Jews, atheists, agnostics. Everybody. And everyone's sins are between them and God. I think the world would be a lot better place if everyone at least tried to sin less, but humans are...human. We make mistakes, and we choose to do wrong.

I don't claim anyone is not a "real" Christian. That's way above my pay grade.

You seem to have a lot of bitterness and rage towards Christians. Why?

.

Everyone is a sinner.

.
the cornerstone of christianity and who are not, sinners - they persecute and victimize even if only by thought of such being true is enough to compel them over the centuries to extract their displeasure through cruelty against them as the 1st century religious itinerant they claim then otherwise not to have understood.

Everyone is a sinner. I don't know what's so hard to accept about that simple statement.

.

Everyone is a sinner. I don't know what's so hard to accept about that simple statement.

.
- because you have resigned yourself to perish when your physiology expires.

You may have. I have not. I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

.

Everyone is a sinner. I don't know what's so hard to accept about that simple statement.

the cornerstone of christianity and who are not, sinners - they persecute and victimize even if only by thought of such being true is enough to compel them over the centuries to extract their displeasure through cruelty against them

- because you have resigned yourself to perish when your physiology expires.

.

You may have. I have not. I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

.
no sinner, those you persecute will ... but not you.

good luck to get a second chance - after renouncing your book of forgeries and fallacies.

I don't persecute anybody.

And you don't get to dictate what I believe.

Kinda sounds like you want to persecute Christians.

Breeze is worthless.

.

Ooooh, look at that. Hate for believers. I called it.

Breeze is worthless.

.
believers of books ...

you are so stupid it does not bear mentioning - your nonexistent original documents written corruptly in books you do not even know the language of to read them ... worthless is mountains above mental dereliction. d & i.

Believers in God.

Does it anger you that you've never been able to talk anyone out of their faith?

No, I was a believer in Christianity until I reached the age of 40 but then I looked for Jesus, and he was nowhere to be found, for 10 years I searched and I searched from Protestants sermons and history books and I found God and Jesus nowhere. I found that every ancient civilization has their Gods or God, and its not much difference than Christianity.

I miss him, but I do not believe in Gods or God anymore. I thought I'd be alive forever and I believed in heaven and hell. I let on to my brothers as they all believe in Jesus and they are all RC (of which I was and my parents as well), , I even let on to some of my friends because without Christ you are titled for sympathy because you are a non believer. I have found that people that believe in Christ are less tolerant of people. They don't how precious life it.

I don't agree.

 

[daveman]

Just look at how these Bible thumpers deny global warming, evolution, wearing masks, taking the vaccine.

Keep in mind that many who are "denying global warming" are merely denying that the government can fix it. Meanwhile government is rubbing their hands in delight over another reason to raise taxes and control people. Note how well the government did with the War on Drugs, the War on Poverty, etc. The last thing we need is for the government to star their War on Climate. The cynic in me notes the government is merely saying, "Want more of your money."

Wearing masks: Put masks and virus under a microscope. The weave on masks is much larger than that itty-bitty virus. Or do your own experiment and blow smoke through. People who wish to wear mask absolutely should. Government should not force the issue. Taking the vaccine: I saw a statistic stating one in four will not take the vaccine. My family fits that statistic. My husband and two daughters will (one already has). I will not. That is merely because I react badly to even over-the-counter medications. Went through two natural child-births. When I had my appendix out, took me a full month to recover from being knocked out. (Can't drink, either. )

Just saying we shouldn't put everyone in the same box. I have my reasons for opting for no mask, no vaccine. That doesn't mean I think everyone has the same reasons I have. We are not cookie stamps of each other, and it should not bother people when another type of cookie opts for something different than we did.

Notice for how many years you guys denied global warming was real? Now you’re saying you actually knew it was real and your real argument is there’s nothing we can do about it?

I was waiting for the day republicans stopped denying it. Trump denied it. Glad to see you’re giving up your lie for a different argument.

Oh, and isn’t lying wrong?

Very few people deny the climate is changing.

But your side simply hasn't proven man's actions have anything to do with it.

But you take it on faith because you were told to.

Scientific community isn’t lying to you

.

Scientific community isn’t lying to you

But your side simply hasn't proven man's actions have anything to do with it.

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you have to be kidding ...
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View attachment 456296
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sure, nature is just a disposable commodity for christians ...

Anyone with any familiarity with the scientific method knows how climate "science" has been bastardized to support a predetermined conclusion.

The scientific community laughs in your face

Odd how you don't believe scientists who have faith in God.

Perhaps you just believe scientists who say things that align with your faith.

 

[daveman]

Just look at how these Bible thumpers deny global warming, evolution, wearing masks, taking the vaccine.

Keep in mind that many who are "denying global warming" are merely denying that the government can fix it. Meanwhile government is rubbing their hands in delight over another reason to raise taxes and control people. Note how well the government did with the War on Drugs, the War on Poverty, etc. The last thing we need is for the government to star their War on Climate. The cynic in me notes the government is merely saying, "Want more of your money."

Wearing masks: Put masks and virus under a microscope. The weave on masks is much larger than that itty-bitty virus. Or do your own experiment and blow smoke through. People who wish to wear mask absolutely should. Government should not force the issue. Taking the vaccine: I saw a statistic stating one in four will not take the vaccine. My family fits that statistic. My husband and two daughters will (one already has). I will not. That is merely because I react badly to even over-the-counter medications. Went through two natural child-births. When I had my appendix out, took me a full month to recover from being knocked out. (Can't drink, either. )

Just saying we shouldn't put everyone in the same box. I have my reasons for opting for no mask, no vaccine. That doesn't mean I think everyone has the same reasons I have. We are not cookie stamps of each other, and it should not bother people when another type of cookie opts for something different than we did.

Notice for how many years you guys denied global warming was real? Now you’re saying you actually knew it was real and your real argument is there’s nothing we can do about it?

I was waiting for the day republicans stopped denying it. Trump denied it. Glad to see you’re giving up your lie for a different argument.

Oh, and isn’t lying wrong?

Very few people deny the climate is changing.

But your side simply hasn't proven man's actions have anything to do with it.

But you take it on faith because you were told to.

Scientific community isn’t lying to you

.

Scientific community isn’t lying to you

But your side simply hasn't proven man's actions have anything to do with it.

.
you have to be kidding ...
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View attachment 456296
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sure, nature is just a disposable commodity for christians ...

And they don’t believe religion is making them stupid. Tons of evidence for man made global warming, they don’t see any of it. No evidence for Jesus, not a problem. In fact they’ve seen evidence for Jesus when there was none. Hint. It’s all in their heads.

But they still need more evidence for man made global warming. The jury’s out on that but Jesus walked on water and rose from the dead? Totally believable.

Ooooh, look at that. Hate for believers. I called it.

No hate. Just pointing out your flaws.

You guys talk about misconceptions? You don’t even know the difference between debate and hate.

I've not seen much debate from you, in this thread or any other. It's all "Ur STOOpid if you dont agree with me!!!!"