Cindy Sheehan quits

[CSM]

The "face of the anti-war movement" calls it quits yesterday and no one comments? Wassup wid dat?

 

[Gunny]

The "face of the anti-war movement" calls it quits yesterday and no one comments? Wassup wid dat?

What'd she quit?

 

[CSM]

What'd she quit?

LOL...being the face of the anti-war movement I guess:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/29/national/main2861551.shtml

 

[Gunny]

LOL...being the face of the anti-war movement I guess:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/29/national/main2861551.shtml

She can't quit being a loser though. She claims she's going home to be "normal?" Just going home won't accomplish that, and after 3+ years of ignoring them, suddenly she wants to be "Mom" to her kids again?

What a piece of work.

 

[loosecannon]

She can't quit being a loser though. She claims she's going home to be "normal?" Just going home won't accomplish that, and after 3+ years of ignoring them, suddenly she wants to be "Mom" to her kids again?

What a piece of work.

Hey she took a principled stand at great personal expense. She got up off her ass, turned off the computer and did something real.

It didn't work. It didn't change the world. It ran her face smack dab into the realiity that when it comes to putting politics above Governance the Dems are every bit the lying scoundrels that the Republicans are.

I think Cindy is now emblematic of a true watershed. The Dems fucked up and to a giant extent by caving on the way the supplemental funding was granted.

I don't think the Dems will ever recover. And if they were the first thing they would have to do is stop the funding in Sept. And the odds that they will are slim and almost none.

I really have to wonder if the dems are paid to take a fall or actually trying to lose.

I mean our national politics is becoming so vacant of legitimacy anymore it is begining to look more like the WWF than a democratic government.

 

[Bern80]

Hey she took a principled stand at great personal expense. She got up off her ass, turned off the computer and did something real.

It didn't work. It didn't change the world. It ran her face smack dab into the realiity that when it comes to putting politics above Governance the Dems are every bit the lying scoundrels that the Republicans are.

I think Cindy is now emblematic of a true watershed. The Dems fucked up and to a giant extent by caving on the way the supplemental funding was granted.

I don't think the Dems will ever recover. And if they were the first thing they would have to do is stop the funding in Sept. And the odds that they will are slim and almost none.

I really have to wonder if the dems are paid to take a fall or actually trying to lose.

I still don't know what to think of her. Sometimes I think she used her son, perhaps on an unconcious level, for selfish reasons. Does anyone believe she would have been as vocal of her son hadn't died? I think she would have been better received had her protesting been more reasoned.

I mean our national politics is becoming so vacant of legitimacy anymore it is begining to look more like the WWF than a democratic government.

On a side note and as a fan the WWE as it is now known (it was sued for its abbreviation by, of all groups, the World Wildlife Fund) has long since stopped claiming to be 'real'.

 

[Gunny]

Hey she took a principled stand at great personal expense. She got up off her ass, turned off the computer and did something real.

It didn't work. It didn't change the world. It ran her face smack dab into the realiity that when it comes to putting politics above Governance the Dems are every bit the lying scoundrels that the Republicans are.

I think Cindy is now emblematic of a true watershed. The Dems fucked up and to a giant extent by caving on the way the supplemental funding was granted.

I don't think the Dems will ever recover. And if they were the first thing they would have to do is stop the funding in Sept. And the odds that they will are slim and almost none.

I really have to wonder if the dems are paid to take a fall or actually trying to lose.

I mean our national politics is becoming so vacant of legitimacy anymore it is begining to look more like the WWF than a democratic government.

The principle in her stand was well-hidden behind a smokescreen of BS and politicizing the death of a son who didn't live with her, defied her to go into the army, and made his own way.

I have no problem with taking a stand on principle, and I can even respect one I disagree with as long as it is a solid argument. There ARE people who completely oppose war and are entitled to their opinion.

But I have NO respect for the way she went about it, nor some the things she said and/or antics she pulled such as hanging out with Hugo Chavez.

The Democrats aren't done. That funding is a no-brainer "blame it on Bush." Look how many threads popped up on message boards accusing Bush of cutting off funding for the troops because he wouldn't sign the original bill.

 

[loosecannon]

The principle in her stand was well-hidden behind a smokescreen of BS and politicizing the death of a son who didn't live with her, defied her to go into the army, and made his own way.

I have no problem with taking a stand on principle, and I can even respect one I disagree with as long as it is a solid argument. There ARE people who completely oppose war and are entitled to their opinion.

But I have NO respect for the way she went about it, nor some the things she said and/or antics she pulled such as hanging out with Hugo Chavez.

The Democrats aren't done. That funding is a no-brainer "blame it on Bush." Look how many threads popped up on message boards accusing Bush of cutting off funding for the troops because he wouldn't sign the original bill.

Well you are entitled to your opinion as well.

The reason the dems are done has not a damned thing to do with blaming anything on Bush. The war has always been Bush's baby.

The reason the dems are done is because people are separating themselves from the party in record numbers now that we can all see what they think of those whom helped elect them into a majority placement in Congress.

They acquiesced, needlessly, and without an excuse.

They have given merit to labels like spineless, feckless and incompetent. They played games with all of us.

 

[loosecannon]

I still don't know what to think of her. Sometimes I think she used her son, perhaps on an unconcious level, for selfish reasons.

Let's be real. And lets remember some of the few things Ayn Rand brought us that weren't merely justifications for greed and self service.

Principled stands and charity are also acts motivated by selfish motives.

I do this for you because it makes me feel good, or it satisfies my own value system, or morals whatever.

It is still all selfish.

Cindy took a stand on principals and at great personal expense. She made it a crusade, risked much of her self and what she loved motivated by the irreversable loss of her son. Maybe she did feel somewhat responsible for that.

She did a good thing. And she got hacked at from virtually every partisan camp in the nation.

No good deed is left unpunished

 

[Bern80]

Let's be real. And lets remember some of the few things Ayn Rand brought us that weren't merely self justifications for greed and self service.

You really don't get Ayn Rand do you? She has nothing to do with selfishness and greed.

Principled stands and charity are also acts motivated by selfish motives.

I do this for you because it makes me feel good, or it satisfies my own value system, or morals whatever.

It is still all selfish.

Cindy took a stand on principals and at great personal expense. She made it a crusade, risked much of her self and what she loved motivated by the irreversable loss of her son. Maybe she did feel somewhat responsible for that.

She did a good thing. And she got hacked at from virtually every partisan camp in the nation.

She chose to let her son's death motivate her in this fashion, that is why she is so maligned.

 

[Gunny]

Well you are entitled to your opinion as well.

The reason the dems are done has not a damned thing to do with blaming anything on Bush. The war has always been Bush's baby.

The reason the dems are done is because people are separating themselves from the party in record numbers now that we can all see what they think of those whom helped elect them into a majority placement in Congress.

They acquiesced, needlessly, and without an excuse.

They have given merit to labels like spineless, feckless and incompetent. They played games with all of us.

Shoot, they were done in 76-80. This is just more of the same since then.

They really didn't have much choice from where I see it. Had they not acquiesced, they were flirting with substantiating the claim of leaving the troops in the field unfunded.

I can give you a whole laundry list of stuff to blame on them, but IMO, this really isn't one of them.

 

[Annie]

The "face of the anti-war movement" calls it quits yesterday and no one comments? Wassup wid dat?

Here's her spiel, in her own words:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/5/28/12530/1525

 

[Annie]

What's really sad about her 'new leaf' is her wanting to put her family back together. She never did get that she was being used; even when hugging Chavez. Sad piece of work she is.

When her husband realized he had to divorce her, to bring some stability to the younger kids, she ignored. One of the older ones actually made a public plea to her to come home, she was needed. She was too engulfed with her own dreams to heed. I hope she finds some peace.

 

[USMCDevilDog]

She's a joke, and I still don't respect her. She's such a selfish b**** and it just took time for her to realize she's useless.

"I've been wondering why I'm killing myself...", that's just sad but hilarious, what a joke!

Good riddance IMO.

 

[loosecannon]

They really didn't have much choice from where I see it. Had they not acquiesced, they were flirting with substantiating the claim of leaving the troops in the field unfunded.

They funded the supplemental weeks ago. To Bush, the Congress and the nation this had nothing at all to do with funding the supplemental.

It was surrendering to Bush's terms.

Budgets are the congress responsibility. So is declaring war. Congress surrendered BOTH and with catastrophic results.

And Congress is just making crystal clear that no matter how damaging Bush is to the nation they will not stand up and rein him in. Even tho the constitution and the position they swore an oath to fulfill demand it.

Mark my words Gunny, the democratic party just died.

I can give you a whole laundry list of stuff to blame on them, but IMO, this really isn't one of them.

This is THE list.

 

[loosecannon]

You really don't get Ayn Rand do you? She has nothing to do with selfishness and greed.

I understand Rand perfectly.

She chose to let her son's death motivate her in this fashion, that is why she is so maligned.

She is maligned for exactly the reasons she stated. BOTH parties will swiftboat anybody who defies their message. No matter how wrong, politically expedient or dishonest that message is.

We have crossed a line or three in which the political parties have no agenda but their own success, and the federal government considers us all enemies if we do not support them no matter how wrong they may happen to be.

"With us or against us" has become the ruling paradigm in DC.

 

[Bern80]

I understand Rand perfectly.

No you don't. Otherwise you would not make the claim that she makes excuses for greed.

 

[jillian]

You really don't get Ayn Rand do you? She has nothing to do with selfishness and greed.

You read the same Ayn Rand that I did? She wrote two of my favorite books, but she absolutely believed in social darwinism. Is that selfishness and greed? Well, she did have the whole Gordon Gekko, "greed is good" thing going on.

She chose to let her son's death motivate her in this fashion, that is why she is so maligned.

Her son's death properly motivated her to voice her opposition to our occupation of Iraq. Where she lost most of us (and I mean people who opposed the Iraq war from the get-go but still believe war is justified in certain instances) is that she started commenting on unrelated policies and allowed herself to be used by extremists. I don't think that's her fault. I think she was well-intentioned. She just allowed herself to be taken advantage of.

 

[Annie]

You read the same Ayn Rand that I did? She wrote two of my favorite books, but she absolutely believed in social darwinism. Is that selfishness and greed? Well, she did have the whole Gordon Gekko, "greed is good" thing going on.



Her son's death properly motivated her to voice her opposition to our occupation of Iraq. Where she lost most of us (and I mean people who opposed the Iraq war from the get-go but still believe war is justified in certain instances) is that she started commenting on unrelated policies and allowed herself to be used by extremists. I don't think that's her fault. I think she was well-intentioned. She just allowed herself to be taken advantage of.

Jillian, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but Rand died in 1982, what did her son's death and Iraq have to do with anything? How did she express her displeasure with US take on Iraq prior to death?

 

[jillian]

Jillian, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but Rand died in 1982, what did her son's death and Iraq have to do with anything? How did she express her displeasure with US take on Iraq prior to death?

Er... go back and read. Loosecannon mentioned Ayn Rand. Bern responded. Separate discussion threads.

As for Cindy Sheehan, I wouldn't take her silence before her son's death as any indication of anything. It's kind of like someone getting involved with M.A.D.D. after someone they love gets wiped out by someone who's sloshed out of their mind.