Zone1 Christians are commanded to hate evil

[Bob Blaylock]

Today's Christians are much more moderate and tolerant.

Tolerant of what? We are so tolerant that people can mug and rob people, be arrested, processed, and back on the street in a matter of a few hours. We are so tolerant that we don't lift a hand to stop stealing and shoplifting. So tolerant, that we don't blink an eye at child trafficking and drugs coming across our borders. All these actions involve victims, but we are so tolerant of the bad behavior, our attitude towards the victims is, "Too bad, suck it up."

Being “moderate and tolerant” of evil—of that which causes great harm to individuals and to society as a whole—is no virtue.

 

[FDR_Reagan]

Being “moderate and tolerant” of evil—of that which causes great harm to individuals and to society as a whole—is no virtue.

Sorry, were you replying to Meriweather or to me?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Sorry, above line was not written by me but by another poster in reply to me

Yes, I know. I included your post, to back it up.

 

[FDR_Reagan]

Yes, I know. I included your post, to back it up.

OK. I get it.

 

[Meriweather]

No?
In the crowd of men who left, I supposed?
No one there worthy of being Judge, other than Christ...

Is this leading to an answer to my first question asked in my post???

I am wondering how you understand the story.

 

[BreezeWood]

He didn't tell her that in the Scripture I just, reread??? Is this lesson of scripture in more than one gospel, and some gospels have more info?

the heavens requirement is the triumph of good vs evil for judgement, the religion of antiquity - there is nothing to believe the woman was evil in what they were being punished for and is what jesus told her. she may stay her course.

 

[Care4all]

I am wondering how you understand the story.

I guess I do not understand...since I already expressed how I understood the story?

Please try again with asking your questions again...ONLY maybe reworded?

And can you answer my first question, so I can see how you believe mercy is given by God....do you have to do something for it, before God will show mercy? Do you first need your earthly punishment or justice served, before he has Mercy on us? Your post on this and what you said, made me ask my questions directed at you, so I can better understand YOU.

 

[Care4all]

the heavens requirement is the triumph of good vs evil for judgement, the religion of antiquity - there is nothing to believe the woman was evil in what they were being punished for and is what jesus told her. she may stay her course.

So, even though the Scripture implies the sin of adultery was committed by her, (and all the men there trying to trick Jesus, who ended up leaving before casting a stone were sinful as well)

You are saying she did not commit adultery? Or that adultery is not sin, or evil?

Even though Jesus told her, her sins were forgiven? Speaking of the adultery as her sin????

Help!!!!!????!

 

[BreezeWood]

So, even though the Scripture implies the sin of adultery was committed by her, (and all the men there trying to trick Jesus, who ended up leaving before casting a stone were sinful as well)

You are saying she did not commit adultery? Or that adultery is not sin, or evil?

Even though Jesus told her, her sins were forgiven? Speaking of the adultery as her sin????

Help!!!!!????!

provide the etched tablets from the heavens claimed by the liar moses w/ those commandments and their authenticity for you to make your claim the woman is guilty of any sin ...

was she evil - in their deliberation, obviously not as has not been the recorded outcome to the event concluded by jesus.

to sin no more, the triumph of good - is the heavenly prescribed religion of antiquity required for judgement enabling admission to the everlasting.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

So, even though the Scripture implies the sin of adultery was committed by her, (and all the men there trying to trick Jesus, who ended up leaving before casting a stone were sinful as well)
You are saying she did not commit adultery? Or that adultery is not sin, or evil?
Even though Jesus told her, her sins were forgiven? Speaking of the adultery as her sin????

I've heard theories suggesting that her “adultery” consisted of having been raped, against her will, by one of the very men that were accusing her of adultery, specifically to set her up for this situation with which to bait Jesus, and probably with the other men in on it. It certainly is suspicious, given that it takes two to commit adultery, and that the penalties in the Old Testament are to be applied equally to both parties, that she was there alone being accused of the crime, without her alleged paramour being accused along with her.

It is curious that the account has Jesus writing something in the dirt on the ground, but does not tell us what it is that He wrote. I think He knew damn well what was going on there, and that the men had a vivid “Oh, SHIT!” moment when they realized that Jesus knew exactly what they had done and what were trying to do. Jesus, being as merciful as He was, was kind enough just to let them slink off in shame.

I'd sure like to know just what it was that Jesus wrote on the ground.

 

[Meriweather]

I guess I do not understand...since I already expressed how I understood the story?

Please try again with asking your questions again...ONLY maybe reworded?

And can you answer my first question, so I can see how you believe mercy is given by God....do you have to do something for it, before God will show mercy? Do you first need your earthly punishment or justice served, before he has Mercy on us? Your post on this and what you said, made me ask my questions directed at you, so I can better understand YOU.

I start with etymology, tracing the meanings in English, Latin, Greek, Hebrew. For example, the meaning of mercy as we understand the English use today:

compassion or forgiveness shown toward someone whom it is within one's power to punish or harm.

In Hebrew the closer definition would be divine protection along with steadfast love.

Now the woman caught in adultery...she would have divine protection along with God's steadfast love. But we need to take a broader look. If the two adulterers have God's divine protection and steadfast love, so do all they are hurting--or even harming if STD are in play. God's divine protection and steadfast love is in play for them as well. Divine protection often times stops someone from hurting another, or even starting a trend that can envelope a community. Catching someone in adultery is one thing, but how does one stop future occurrences? What kind of punishment will put an end to the behavior and/or stop others from committing it? The steadfast love also covers the adulterer(s). Might not their lives be better if they did not cheat? Now, how to put an end to the cheating? Divine protection and so once again, punishment comes into play.

In the story, only the woman stands accused. She is not brought before the appointed judges, she is brought before Jesus, a teacher. She is being used to trick him. We are about to see divine protection and steadfast love at work. The sin being played out is no longer adultery but defamation with both the woman and Jesus being used to bring harm to the other. We can see (or imagine) that wall of divine protection and steadfast love, particularly as it comes to the woman who was just caught in sin!

The story concludes with Jesus saying to the woman she should from then on avoid the sin of adultery. For her to have been properly charged, she and the man would have both had to be brought before appointed judges, and their act would have had to have been seen by two witnesses. I think it is interesting the men said the woman had been caught in adultery, but said nothing that she had been caught in the act by two witnesses.

But is that how God does it, with Mercy? Is mercy, mercy, without making a person pay for it first?

One does not pay for mercy. God's divine protection and steadfast love are upon us all. If we are caught in a wrong-doing and punished, some say that steadfast love can be seen more in the consequences of being caught because it can change the direction of one's thinking or even one's life. It can save others from being hurt.

Looking at some of today's judges/prosecutors who are releasing criminals with barely a slap on the wrist, all in the name of 'mercy'. Where is the love and protection judges and prosecutors should be showing the greater community?

Yet Jesus gave mercy to the adulteress woman being stoned, forgave her sins and simply asked her after the forgiveness of sin was given by Him,.... to go and sin no more? Was He weak kneed and his love and mercy getting in the way of justice for her crime, which called for the penalty of death?

Jesus was not a Jewish judge, nor did he have two witnesses even had he been a judge. As a human living in Israel, he had no authority over the woman. He could hope his final words to her would have an impact--and I like to think that they did.

I'll bet you are thinking, "I should have just answered her question and hoped for a shorter response!"

 

[Care4all]

I'd sure like to know just what it was that Jesus wrote on the ground.

Me too!!!

 

[Meriweather]

Me too!!!

A few Church Fathers, St. Augustine for example, compared what Jesus did to Jeremiah 17, emphasizing verses 1 and 13. These are:

1 - The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron.
13 - O Lord, the hope of Israel, all who forsake thee shall be put to shame; those who turn away from you shall be written in the earth, for they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living water.

John's Gospel has the story of the woman caught in adultery. Before this story, several times in John, Jesus identifies himself as living water. Anyway, thoughts of some Church Fathers, and even some scholars today.

 

[Care4all]

I start with etymology, tracing the meanings in English, Latin, Greek, Hebrew. For example, the meaning of mercy as we understand the English use today:

compassion or forgiveness shown toward someone whom it is within one's power to punish or harm.

In Hebrew the closer definition would be divine protection along with steadfast love.

Now the woman caught in adultery...she would have divine protection along with God's steadfast love. But we need to take a broader look. If the two adulterers have God's divine protection and steadfast love, so do all they are hurting--or even harming if STD are in play. God's divine protection and steadfast love is in play for them as well. Divine protection often times stops someone from hurting another, or even starting a trend that can envelope a community. Catching someone in adultery is one thing, but how does one stop future occurrences? What kind of punishment will put an end to the behavior and/or stop others from committing it? The steadfast love also covers the adulterer(s). Might not their lives be better if they did not cheat? Now, how to put an end to the cheating? Divine protection and so once again, punishment comes into play.

In the story, only the woman stands accused. She is not brought before the appointed judges, she is brought before Jesus, a teacher. She is being used to trick him. We are about to see divine protection and steadfast love at work. The sin being played out is no longer adultery but defamation with both the woman and Jesus being used to bring harm to the other. We can see (or imagine) that wall of divine protection and steadfast love, particularly as it comes to the woman who was just caught in sin!

The story concludes with Jesus saying to the woman she should from then on avoid the sin of adultery. For her to have been properly charged, she and the man would have both had to be brought before appointed judges, and their act would have had to have been seen by two witnesses. I think it is interesting the men said the woman had been caught in adultery, but said nothing that she had been caught in the act by two witnesses.

One does not pay for mercy. God's divine protection and steadfast love are upon us all. If we are caught in a wrong-doing and punished, some say that steadfast love can be seen more in the consequences of being caught because it can change the direction of one's thinking or even one's life. It can save others from being hurt.

Looking at some of today's judges/prosecutors who are releasing criminals with barely a slap on the wrist, all in the name of 'mercy'. Where is the love and protection judges and prosecutors should be showing the greater community?

Jesus was not a Jewish judge, nor did he have two witnesses even had he been a judge. As a human living in Israel, he had no authority over the woman. He could hope his final words to her would have an impact--and I like to think that they did.

I'll bet you are thinking, "I should have just answered her question and hoped for a shorter response!"

The only way judges can do this, is if the State legislated the judges could do this.... The option is legal, under their state law.

But it is much, much more complicated than just some judge showing mercy, when mercy should probably not be given....

The whole system relies on money....yep money....how much prosecutors are given by the state, to spend on court prosecutions is a huge problem! This is why they push so hard to get plea deals for criminals to admit their guilt on just a few of the crimes charged with, and pass on the others in plea deals....they don't have the money but to bring 10% or less of the criminals to court.

How much the budgets of the courts is given as well....

And how much budget money the State prisons and jails are given, and how so very very overcrowded prisons are, with no money to add additional ones.... (And laws involved against inhumane treatment of prisoners)

All of the above departments and people are making many of these decisions on who to let out and who to prosecute etc on money....budgets....

And tax payers, who by majority don't want more taxes spent on prisons and guards that have a loud voice....

This leads to some stupid decisions.

On the issue of releasing without bail for some crimes that have not involved harming people, much of this began with people and non profits fighting for alleged poor criminals vs wealthy alleged criminals....and equal justice under the law, and Biblically....it refers to favoritism given to a wealthy man vs the poor person, when we are all equal in God's eyes...it's sinning to favor the rich.....

And there is issue when a rich alleged criminal committing the same exact crime as the poor man alleged criminal who is legally given the opportunity for release if he has the money for the bail required, while the poor criminal, who has no money, or means to get it, will never get released and held in jail for months until trial....

If a equal alleged criminal rich man can get released with money, then a poor man should have the same opportunity without money or usery...kind of thinking....

If the crime under the law did not permit bail due to something like being a violent crime, neither would be allowed out.

____________

As far as the woman adulteress.... Christ released her out of love and mercy, but probably more likely because he did see the injustice of her being brought before him, yet not the male law breaker.... Which as you noted, was the law at the time, and him punishing her alone and not the male participant would have actually broken the Law....! Tricking him in to breaking it.

I presumed there were already the two witnesses, because it was the Pharisees etc, that brought her to him and the way she was presented to Him by them just seemed like the 2 witness part was already established....

I think she had to be overjoyed...and thankful to Him, for what she likely sees as undeserved mercy! And she likely did, sin no more.

 

[surada]

Not a good argument. Most of Israel's Jews thought Jesus was a heretical nutcase. Were they right? They were the "greater majority"?

How do you know they thought Jesus was a heretical nutcase? He seems to have gotten along fine everywhere except Jerusalem.