Christians and The Bible

If a God would like humans to reach Him, He needs a book accurately described about Him and His requirement for humans. Such a book will basically not change along time for humans in different times of history to read the same stuff to reach the same God with the same requirement for His judgment.

He thus needs to authenticate a human authority as a representative of His book, or else everyone may pop up to say that "my version of the book is the genuine one". The Jews were first assigned to be such a representative. When the Jews became unqualified, the authority was shifted to the Catholics then the Protestants. All of them are maintaining the same core (Canon) of the OT, with the Catholics and Protestants sharing the same NT.

God must choose the most efficient way for His information to be conveyed among humans, such that more can access the information to be saved. And the most efficient way for a truth to be conveyed is through multiple accounts of human witnessing backed by martyrdom of the direct witnesses.

Of course, an even more efficient way is for God to show Himself up to everyone to convey the message, however this violates His own covenants which demanded one's faith to be saved.

In Christianity, holiness is "righteousness in God's eyes" but not necessarily in terms of Law. Sinlessness however is measured and judged against Law. So when it is said someone is holy, you need to address base on what he's judged to be holy. In Christianity, holiness is judged by God using His said covenant (which a human belongs to and covered by) as a standard.

A covenant is mainly composed of Law and Grace (the New Covenant is virtually with 0 Law and 100% Grace) covering a scope of humans (The covenant with Mosaic Law is basically for the Jews). Usually, each update of a covenant will involve the decreasing of the Law part together with an increasing of the Grace part. Humans are saved by such a mixture of covenant law and grace. The Law part is just a small set of God's Law, not the whole set as no one can keep God's full set of Law.

The Grace part of a covenant is usually reflected as human faith. Humans can be judged not by Law alone, but a mixture of Law and faith and finally faith alone because Jesus Christ will make a sacrifice at a certain point of humanity. To put it another way, without a covenant (i.e., without Grace) no humans can be saved. Without Christ then no Grace will be given.


Qu'ran is single account witnessing without any maintenance (anyone can claim its genuineness). Holiness is just a self-perception without a said standard.
 
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In 2015, 1400 years after the Qur'an was revealed by God to Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family), Christians still read the Bible and actually claim it is holy. If it were holy, continuous reading of it would make one holy and saintly. The Qur'an and the Hadiths (the sayings of Muhammad) read continously have made people holy and saintly for 14 centuries. Christianity needs to be reformed, so that billions of Christians worldwide may come to real life.

Still attacking the straw man that reading makes us holy. Reading doesn't make one holy. It's Dedicating our lives to God and accepting the blood of Christ . He makes us holy
 
gods/ religion/ and savagery are product of time and geography. During the dark ages the christian savages were busy torturing an burning non Christians in europe and the new world. It wasn't until the enlightenment was Christianity defanged and declawed and made to heel . The same must be done to islam

You're wrong of course. It was getting the Bible to the people that transformed Christianity. When the scriptures were in the hands of the people and followed that th Spirit transformed Christians.
 
I am Muslim.

Christians read the Bible, more or less frequently. The clergy reads the Bible and the Popes read the Bible. If the Bible is a holy book, it should make its readers holy. This is the purpose of a holy book. Regular and continuous reading of the Bible ought to make one become holy. By holy, I mean the kind of man that the Church will point to saying this is a holy man, a holy Christian, a saint. The problem is, even the popes are not saints. This is no surprise because one can not possibly seriously consider the Bible to be true, this book that dates back 2000 years and claiming to be holy.

The only reason Muslims rely on the Holy Qur'an (the word of God revealed to Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family, not the word of Muhammad) is because the Qur'an stipulated from the beginning that this holy book would be forever protected from corruption. The only reason Muslims rely on the Holy Hadiths (the holy sayings of Muhammad) is because it was stipulated from the beginning that the life of Muhammad would be very well recorded, as he comes as the last prophet, the Seal of the prophets. That is why we have such many reliable and uncorrupted Hadiths available today.

Does reading the Quran cause extremists to kill?
 
It is clear, from a historical point of view, that Muhammad, as a youth participated in worshipping all the 360 pagan gods in the Kabah in Mecca owned and operated by the Quraish tribe to which Muhammad was member in good standing. As Muhammad grew up, he was influenced by Christians (monotheists) who condemned the polytheism at the Kabah. At some point in Muhammad's life, he was convinced by the Christians that Polytheism was wrong and sought to reject the 360 pagan gods he had grown up with. Muhammad was converted to the concept of monotheism through the influence and teachings of Christians. However, being a proud "nationalistic cultural Arab", bent to preserve his traditions, Muhammad, decided to "reform" his native pagan religion, rather than adopt a completely different religion like Christianity. So Muhammad took the top pagan god of the Kabah in Mecca (called Hubal and/or Allah) and chose it to be his new monotheistic god. This god was already considered the top god among other gods at the Kabah. Muhammad's strategy was simple. Rather than converting all the Arab people to the monotheism of Christianity, Muhammad merely banished the other 359 pagan gods and chose the one remaining to be the one and only god... what Muslims refer to today as "Allah". Thus Islam was born.


If Muhammad was trying to convert one of his fellow pagan Arabs to monotheism, the conversation probably went something like this: Muhammad: "You know, worshipping all these pagan gods is really silly. There must be a supreme god, a "THE GOD". (the god is what Allah actually means) We already refer to the chief or head of the Kabah as "Allah", lets continue to worship that god, but do away with all the others. I don't want to discard the Allah, the Lord of the Kabah that we already worship, rather I only want to remove his wife and his daughters and all the other gods. And lets never refer to Allah again as "Hubal" or call him the moon god, because Allah, being our new monotheistic supreme god, created the moon.

Islam is Paganism in Monotheistic Gift Wrapping Paper.
 
A reminder.

If a book is holy, regular reading of it will make one holy. By holy, I mean a saint, one whom God Almighty grants all that he asks Him and one who can have all he wants.

For instance, a swimming pool is full of chlorine. When you swim in it and you come out, your body is covered with chlorine. When you read regularly a holy book, you will become a holy one, a saint. By reading, I don't mean story-telling reading or doubtful reading, I mean proper reading.

The Bible can never make one holy. Even the popes are not saints, thought they regularly read the Bible. This is because the Bible is not a true book revealed by God. The Qur'an is a true book revealed from God. The books of Hadiths (the Hadiths are the sayings of Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family) are also holy books, Muhammad being a holy and saintly person, rather, the most holy person of all human beings. If you read regularly the Qur'an or the Hadiths, it will make you holy, a saint.

Try, for instance, to read this Hadith, preferably the Arabic version but english is also fine: "I am the City of Sincerity and Abu Bakr is the door."

To read it is to think about what you read, to ponder upon it. What does this Hadith inspire you ? There is no limit to the depth of your thinking. The more you think about it, the more you will be inspired with meanings and implications of it. Think for 1 min or 1000 mins. In both cases, it's completely different from story-telling reading.

Try for instance, to read the verse of the Qur'an "In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Great Merciful" (The Opening -Surah 1- V 1). This is, by the way, my translation, because Rahman and Rahim both point to Rahma (mercy). I guess the translators wanted to avoid the repetition (which also has a wisdom, when you think). This is the very first verse of the Qur'an, and the verse at the beginning of every Chapter of the Qur'an (except one). Read and think.

When you read the Qur'an or the Hadiths regularly, you will become holy, a saint. That is the purpose of a holy book. If the Bible was holy, it would also fulfil this purpose.
 
I am Muslim.

Christians read the Bible, more or less frequently. The clergy reads the Bible and the Popes read the Bible. If the Bible is a holy book, it should make its readers holy. This is the purpose of a holy book. Regular and continuous reading of the Bible ought to make one become holy. By holy, I mean the kind of man that the Church will point to saying this is a holy man, a holy Christian, a saint. The problem is, even the popes are not saints. This is no surprise because one can not possibly seriously consider the Bible to be true, this book that dates back 2000 years and claiming to be holy.

The only reason Muslims rely on the Holy Qur'an (the word of God revealed to Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family, not the word of Muhammad) is because the Qur'an stipulated from the beginning that this holy book would be forever protected from corruption. The only reason Muslims rely on the Holy Hadiths (the holy sayings of Muhammad) is because it was stipulated from the beginning that the life of Muhammad would be very well recorded, as he comes as the last prophet, the Seal of the prophets. That is why we have such many reliable and uncorrupted Hadiths available today.

Oops.

If the Bible is in anyway untrue, then so is the Qur'an. Can't be a derivitive religion basing yourself on a prior reliigon if the prior religion's holy text is untrue.
 
The Koran can never make one holy.

The Qu'ran is but an imitation of the Bible.
 
Muslims copied Judaism, Christianity copied Judaism, The Judeans copied the Sumerians.......and Egyptians, Akhenaten was the first ruler to impose a mono-deity...
 
The Quran says it confirms the previous messages, but it contradicts them.

By the way, I read the Quran. Will that make me a saint too?
 
A reminder.

If a book is holy, regular reading of it will make one holy. By holy, I mean a saint, one whom God Almighty grants all that he asks Him and one who can have all he wants.

For instance, a swimming pool is full of chlorine. When you swim in it and you come out, your body is covered with chlorine. When you read regularly a holy book, you will become a holy one, a saint. By reading, I don't mean story-telling reading or doubtful reading, I mean proper reading.

The Bible can never make one holy. Even the popes are not saints, thought they regularly read the Bible. This is because the Bible is not a true book revealed by God. The Qur'an is a true book revealed from God. The books of Hadiths (the Hadiths are the sayings of Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family) are also holy books, Muhammad being a holy and saintly person, rather, the most holy person of all human beings. If you read regularly the Qur'an or the Hadiths, it will make you holy, a saint.

Try, for instance, to read this Hadith, preferably the Arabic version but english is also fine: "I am the City of Sincerity and Abu Bakr is the door."

To read it is to think about what you read, to ponder upon it. What does this Hadith inspire you ? There is no limit to the depth of your thinking. The more you think about it, the more you will be inspired with meanings and implications of it. Think for 1 min or 1000 mins. In both cases, it's completely different from story-telling reading.

Try for instance, to read the verse of the Qur'an "In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Great Merciful" (The Opening -Surah 1- V 1). This is, by the way, my translation, because Rahman and Rahim both point to Rahma (mercy). I guess the translators wanted to avoid the repetition (which also has a wisdom, when you think). This is the very first verse of the Qur'an, and the verse at the beginning of every Chapter of the Qur'an (except one). Read and think.

When you read the Qur'an or the Hadiths regularly, you will become holy, a saint. That is the purpose of a holy book. If the Bible was holy, it would also fulfil this purpose.
The Quran is a book of lies put forth by a satan worshipping pedophile.
 
Why do you have a Chapter of Mary in the Quran
Exactly, sort of spoils the whole uncorupted claim since Mary is the mother of the 100bc christ it proves Jesus isn't a singular figure and his text is talking about the wrong christ. This mistake only occurs when borrowing the lies Rome created or mistakes of people before them.
Surely disproving the uncorruptable claim.
 
Christians read the Bible, more or less frequently. The clergy reads the Bible and the Popes read the Bible. If the Bible is a holy book, it should make its readers holy. This is the purpose of a holy book. Regular and continuous reading of the Bible ought to make one become holy. By holy, I mean the kind of man that the Church will point to saying this is a holy man, a holy Christian, a saint. The problem is, even the popes are not saints. This is no surprise because one can not possibly seriously consider the Bible to be true, this book that dates back 2000 years and claiming to be holy.

In order for me to understand this post, I need to know your definition of holiness and saint. In Christianity, holiness is an attribute of God, not of mankind. On the other hand, since mankind is made in the image and likeness of God (but not God) we can strive to incorporate holiness into our lives. Those who strive to do this are considered saints. Each first day of November, the Catholic Church commemorates all saints. There are also Christians (including popes) who are models of a holy life. Those who truly model a Christian life are sometimes given the title of Saint and are commemorated as such.

Holiness is striving to discern the will of God and following it. Christians believe God's grace and the Holy Spirit will aid in giving us strength and guidance to live a holy life. Note that for this strength and guidance we go directly to a Being--not a book. We approach God Himself, sometimes through the Bible and other Holy books, sometimes through direct meditation and prayer; sometimes as a community in a church; sometimes in solitude in a closet or in nature. Holiness comes from communion with God, the Supreme Being, not communion with a book. True, the book can inspire, but only for a time. Daily communion with God and being open to His graces and guidance is what sanctifies and draws us to holiness/God.
 
A reminder.

If a book is holy, regular reading of it will make one holy. By holy, I mean a saint, one whom God Almighty grants all that he asks Him and one who can have all he wants.

For instance, a swimming pool is full of chlorine. When you swim in it and you come out, your body is covered with chlorine. When you read regularly a holy book, you will become a holy one, a saint. By reading, I don't mean story-telling reading or doubtful reading, I mean proper reading.

The Bible can never make one holy. Even the popes are not saints, thought they regularly read the Bible. This is because the Bible is not a true book revealed by God. The Qur'an is a true book revealed from God. The books of Hadiths (the Hadiths are the sayings of Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family) are also holy books, Muhammad being a holy and saintly person, rather, the most holy person of all human beings. If you read regularly the Qur'an or the Hadiths, it will make you holy, a saint.

Try, for instance, to read this Hadith, preferably the Arabic version but english is also fine: "I am the City of Sincerity and Abu Bakr is the door."

To read it is to think about what you read, to ponder upon it. What does this Hadith inspire you ? There is no limit to the depth of your thinking. The more you think about it, the more you will be inspired with meanings and implications of it. Think for 1 min or 1000 mins. In both cases, it's completely different from story-telling reading.

Try for instance, to read the verse of the Qur'an "In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Great Merciful" (The Opening -Surah 1- V 1). This is, by the way, my translation, because Rahman and Rahim both point to Rahma (mercy). I guess the translators wanted to avoid the repetition (which also has a wisdom, when you think). This is the very first verse of the Qur'an, and the verse at the beginning of every Chapter of the Qur'an (except one). Read and think.

When you read the Qur'an or the Hadiths regularly, you will become holy, a saint. That is the purpose of a holy book. If the Bible was holy, it would also fulfil this purpose.
The Quran is a book of lies put forth by a satan worshipping pedophile.

In the book of Jasher which is quoted in the OT, it says Benjamin got married at 10, how old do you think his wife was? It didn't say, he has 5 kids and then got another wife at 18 and had 5 more kids, when he met Joseph he had 10 kids.
 
A reminder.

If a book is holy, regular reading of it will make one holy. By holy, I mean a saint, one whom God Almighty grants all that he asks Him and one who can have all he wants.

For instance, a swimming pool is full of chlorine. When you swim in it and you come out, your body is covered with chlorine. When you read regularly a holy book, you will become a holy one, a saint. By reading, I don't mean story-telling reading or doubtful reading, I mean proper reading.

The Bible can never make one holy. Even the popes are not saints, thought they regularly read the Bible. This is because the Bible is not a true book revealed by God. The Qur'an is a true book revealed from God. The books of Hadiths (the Hadiths are the sayings of Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family) are also holy books, Muhammad being a holy and saintly person, rather, the most holy person of all human beings. If you read regularly the Qur'an or the Hadiths, it will make you holy, a saint.

Try, for instance, to read this Hadith, preferably the Arabic version but english is also fine: "I am the City of Sincerity and Abu Bakr is the door."

To read it is to think about what you read, to ponder upon it. What does this Hadith inspire you ? There is no limit to the depth of your thinking. The more you think about it, the more you will be inspired with meanings and implications of it. Think for 1 min or 1000 mins. In both cases, it's completely different from story-telling reading.

Try for instance, to read the verse of the Qur'an "In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Great Merciful" (The Opening -Surah 1- V 1). This is, by the way, my translation, because Rahman and Rahim both point to Rahma (mercy). I guess the translators wanted to avoid the repetition (which also has a wisdom, when you think). This is the very first verse of the Qur'an, and the verse at the beginning of every Chapter of the Qur'an (except one). Read and think.

When you read the Qur'an or the Hadiths regularly, you will become holy, a saint. That is the purpose of a holy book. If the Bible was holy, it would also fulfil this purpose.
The Quran is a book of lies put forth by a satan worshipping pedophile.

In the book of Jasher which is quoted in the OT, it says Benjamin got married at 10, how old do you think his wife was? It didn't say, he has 5 kids and then got another wife at 18 and had 5 more kids, when he met Joseph he had 10 kids.
There is no book of jasher in the Old Testament liar. LIAR!!!!!
 
I can't understand why he wants to continue with this straw man that reading a book makes you holy.

holiness comes from the grace of God. The Lord has taught us how to be holy. Exercise faith in Jesus Christ and repent of your sins. As you do you will feel a desire to enter into a covenant with God. This covenant occurs at baptism where we are born of water. We promise to remember Him, to keep His commandments, to stand as a witness of Him at all times, to mourn with those that mourn and comfort those who need to be comforted.

if we do these things the Lord will raise us in the resurrection of the just and give us the Spirit by the laying on of hands.

it's the spirit that cleanses us from sin. It's the Spirit that sanctifies us and becomes a vehicle for us to receive His grace. That's why we become saints when we are baptized and receive the Holy Ghost. Because God does not dwell in unholy temples.

all this can be done without being literate. The scriptures are a tool to help us know God and point us to the covenant. It's making and keeping those covenants that makes us Holy.
 
A reminder.

If a book is holy, regular reading of it will make one holy. By holy, I mean a saint, one whom God Almighty grants all that he asks Him and one who can have all he wants.

For instance, a swimming pool is full of chlorine. When you swim in it and you come out, your body is covered with chlorine. When you read regularly a holy book, you will become a holy one, a saint. By reading, I don't mean story-telling reading or doubtful reading, I mean proper reading.

The Bible can never make one holy. Even the popes are not saints, thought they regularly read the Bible. This is because the Bible is not a true book revealed by God. The Qur'an is a true book revealed from God. The books of Hadiths (the Hadiths are the sayings of Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family) are also holy books, Muhammad being a holy and saintly person, rather, the most holy person of all human beings. If you read regularly the Qur'an or the Hadiths, it will make you holy, a saint.

Try, for instance, to read this Hadith, preferably the Arabic version but english is also fine: "I am the City of Sincerity and Abu Bakr is the door."

To read it is to think about what you read, to ponder upon it. What does this Hadith inspire you ? There is no limit to the depth of your thinking. The more you think about it, the more you will be inspired with meanings and implications of it. Think for 1 min or 1000 mins. In both cases, it's completely different from story-telling reading.

Try for instance, to read the verse of the Qur'an "In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Great Merciful" (The Opening -Surah 1- V 1). This is, by the way, my translation, because Rahman and Rahim both point to Rahma (mercy). I guess the translators wanted to avoid the repetition (which also has a wisdom, when you think). This is the very first verse of the Qur'an, and the verse at the beginning of every Chapter of the Qur'an (except one). Read and think.

When you read the Qur'an or the Hadiths regularly, you will become holy, a saint. That is the purpose of a holy book. If the Bible was holy, it would also fulfil this purpose.
The Quran is a book of lies put forth by a satan worshipping pedophile.

In the book of Jasher which is quoted in the OT, it says Benjamin got married at 10, how old do you think his wife was? It didn't say, he has 5 kids and then got another wife at 18 and had 5 more kids, when he met Joseph he had 10 kids.

id love to see the reference to this.

but don't you see a moral differences between a 10 year old boy marrying a girl his age versus a 50 year old marrying a 10 yr old?
 
the book of Jasher is MIDRASH------Midrash is not
considered "history" and is not part of the OT -----it consists of writings with a kind of religious theme.
As to "marriage" in those days----it could have consisted
of only a kind of pact for a future event----ie Betrothal ---
was a kind of equivalent to "marriage". The betrothed
couple would have to be divorced in order to give up
the pact. Ie the pact would have to be dissolved legally.----fortunately not a very difficult thing to do
 

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