Christians and The Bible

[Penelope]

A reminder.

If a book is holy, regular reading of it will make one holy. By holy, I mean a saint, one whom God Almighty grants all that he asks Him and one who can have all he wants.

For instance, a swimming pool is full of chlorine. When you swim in it and you come out, your body is covered with chlorine. When you read regularly a holy book, you will become a holy one, a saint. By reading, I don't mean story-telling reading or doubtful reading, I mean proper reading.

The Bible can never make one holy. Even the popes are not saints, thought they regularly read the Bible. This is because the Bible is not a true book revealed by God. The Qur'an is a true book revealed from God. The books of Hadiths (the Hadiths are the sayings of Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family) are also holy books, Muhammad being a holy and saintly person, rather, the most holy person of all human beings. If you read regularly the Qur'an or the Hadiths, it will make you holy, a saint.

Try, for instance, to read this Hadith, preferably the Arabic version but english is also fine: "I am the City of Sincerity and Abu Bakr is the door."

To read it is to think about what you read, to ponder upon it. What does this Hadith inspire you ? There is no limit to the depth of your thinking. The more you think about it, the more you will be inspired with meanings and implications of it. Think for 1 min or 1000 mins. In both cases, it's completely different from story-telling reading.

Try for instance, to read the verse of the Qur'an "In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Great Merciful" (The Opening -Surah 1- V 1). This is, by the way, my translation, because Rahman and Rahim both point to Rahma (mercy). I guess the translators wanted to avoid the repetition (which also has a wisdom, when you think). This is the very first verse of the Qur'an, and the verse at the beginning of every Chapter of the Qur'an (except one). Read and think.

When you read the Qur'an or the Hadiths regularly, you will become holy, a saint. That is the purpose of a holy book. If the Bible was holy, it would also fulfil this purpose.

The Quran is a book of lies put forth by a satan worshipping pedophile.

In the book of Jasher which is quoted in the OT, it says Benjamin got married at 10, how old do you think his wife was? It didn't say, he has 5 kids and then got another wife at 18 and had 5 more kids, when he met Joseph he had 10 kids.

id love to see the reference to this.

but don't you see a moral differences between a 10 year old boy marrying a girl his age versus a 50 year old marrying a 10 yr old?

Read the book of Jasher and then read about Benjamin in the Jewish Encyl.

 

[Penelope]

gods/ religion/ and savagery are product of time and geography. During the dark ages the christian savages were busy torturing an burning non Christians in europe and the new world. It wasn't until the enlightenment was Christianity defanged and declawed and made to heel . The same must be done to islam

What about Jews guno? Your OT and Babylon Talmud led to the Quran. So take the speck out of your eyes.

 

[Penelope]

A reminder.

If a book is holy, regular reading of it will make one holy. By holy, I mean a saint, one whom God Almighty grants all that he asks Him and one who can have all he wants.

For instance, a swimming pool is full of chlorine. When you swim in it and you come out, your body is covered with chlorine. When you read regularly a holy book, you will become a holy one, a saint. By reading, I don't mean story-telling reading or doubtful reading, I mean proper reading.

The Bible can never make one holy. Even the popes are not saints, thought they regularly read the Bible. This is because the Bible is not a true book revealed by God. The Qur'an is a true book revealed from God. The books of Hadiths (the Hadiths are the sayings of Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family) are also holy books, Muhammad being a holy and saintly person, rather, the most holy person of all human beings. If you read regularly the Qur'an or the Hadiths, it will make you holy, a saint.

Try, for instance, to read this Hadith, preferably the Arabic version but english is also fine: "I am the City of Sincerity and Abu Bakr is the door."

To read it is to think about what you read, to ponder upon it. What does this Hadith inspire you ? There is no limit to the depth of your thinking. The more you think about it, the more you will be inspired with meanings and implications of it. Think for 1 min or 1000 mins. In both cases, it's completely different from story-telling reading.

Try for instance, to read the verse of the Qur'an "In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Great Merciful" (The Opening -Surah 1- V 1). This is, by the way, my translation, because Rahman and Rahim both point to Rahma (mercy). I guess the translators wanted to avoid the repetition (which also has a wisdom, when you think). This is the very first verse of the Qur'an, and the verse at the beginning of every Chapter of the Qur'an (except one). Read and think.

When you read the Qur'an or the Hadiths regularly, you will become holy, a saint. That is the purpose of a holy book. If the Bible was holy, it would also fulfil this purpose.

The Quran is a book of lies put forth by a satan worshipping pedophile.

In the book of Jasher which is quoted in the OT, it says Benjamin got married at 10, how old do you think his wife was? It didn't say, he has 5 kids and then got another wife at 18 and had 5 more kids, when he met Joseph he had 10 kids.

id love to see the reference to this.

but don't you see a moral differences between a 10 year old boy marrying a girl his age versus a 50 year old marrying a 10 yr old?

Read the book of Jasher and then read about Benjamin in the Jewish Encyl.

I told you liar there is no book of jasper in the Old Testament which means that you are a liar, liar!

Google it. Since it is referred to in the Bible is open reading, you may find it very interesting. Hundreds of writings form the ancients never made it into the Bible. The Book of Jasher was obviously used in writing other parts of the Bible.

 

[AmericanFirst]

gods/ religion/ and savagery are product of time and geography. During the dark ages the christian savages were busy torturing an burning non Christians in europe and the new world. It wasn't until the enlightenment was Christianity defanged and declawed and made to heel . The same must be done to islam

What about Jews guno? Your OT and Babylon Talmud led to the Quran. So take the speck out of your eyes.

You're asking an atheist? You are confused.

 

[irosie91]

A reminder.

If a book is holy, regular reading of it will make one holy. By holy, I mean a saint, one whom God Almighty grants all that he asks Him and one who can have all he wants.

For instance, a swimming pool is full of chlorine. When you swim in it and you come out, your body is covered with chlorine. When you read regularly a holy book, you will become a holy one, a saint. By reading, I don't mean story-telling reading or doubtful reading, I mean proper reading.

The Bible can never make one holy. Even the popes are not saints, thought they regularly read the Bible. This is because the Bible is not a true book revealed by God. The Qur'an is a true book revealed from God. The books of Hadiths (the Hadiths are the sayings of Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family) are also holy books, Muhammad being a holy and saintly person, rather, the most holy person of all human beings. If you read regularly the Qur'an or the Hadiths, it will make you holy, a saint.

Try, for instance, to read this Hadith, preferably the Arabic version but english is also fine: "I am the City of Sincerity and Abu Bakr is the door."

To read it is to think about what you read, to ponder upon it. What does this Hadith inspire you ? There is no limit to the depth of your thinking. The more you think about it, the more you will be inspired with meanings and implications of it. Think for 1 min or 1000 mins. In both cases, it's completely different from story-telling reading.

Try for instance, to read the verse of the Qur'an "In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Great Merciful" (The Opening -Surah 1- V 1). This is, by the way, my translation, because Rahman and Rahim both point to Rahma (mercy). I guess the translators wanted to avoid the repetition (which also has a wisdom, when you think). This is the very first verse of the Qur'an, and the verse at the beginning of every Chapter of the Qur'an (except one). Read and think.

When you read the Qur'an or the Hadiths regularly, you will become holy, a saint. That is the purpose of a holy book. If the Bible was holy, it would also fulfil this purpose.

The Quran is a book of lies put forth by a satan worshipping pedophile.

In the book of Jasher which is quoted in the OT, it says Benjamin got married at 10, how old do you think his wife was? It didn't say, he has 5 kids and then got another wife at 18 and had 5 more kids, when he met Joseph he had 10 kids.

id love to see the reference to this.

but don't you see a moral differences between a 10 year old boy marrying a girl his age versus a 50 year old marrying a 10 yr old?

Read the book of Jasher and then read about Benjamin in the Jewish Encyl.

what for??? the book of Jasher is from the MIDRASH-----generally---writings related to
issues and possible events related in the Tanach.
There are LOTS AND LOTS of legends about
Solomon in the midrashic writings too ----"legends"
being the operative word. "Legends"----like ROBIN
HOOD and friar Tuck and maid MARIAN----the writings
constitute the ancient form of "intellectualizing" What
point are you hopelessly struggling to make?
A good way to open your mind would be for you
to read the classical literature of Greece----Like
the THEBAN TRILOGY

 

[irosie91]

The legend of ROMEO AND JULIET was not invented
by Shakespeare. Romeo and Juliet is not part of
the New Testament

 

[Penelope]

I don't know why any Christian would not read anything outside the Bible to know where their God originated from, they will learn it was before the OT. The Book of Jasher is no more MIDRASH than the whole of the OT. Then I suggest one to start the Babylon Talmud. That is a real eye opener.

 

[Penelope]

gods/ religion/ and savagery are product of time and geography. During the dark ages the christian savages were busy torturing an burning non Christians in europe and the new world. It wasn't until the enlightenment was Christianity defanged and declawed and made to heel . The same must be done to islam

What about Jews guno? Your OT and Babylon Talmud led to the Quran. So take the speck out of your eyes.

You're asking an atheist? You are confused.

You have to wait for it to load: http://www.succatyeshua.nl/upload/files/The book of Jasher.pdf

 

[irosie91]

The Quran is a book of lies put forth by a satan worshipping pedophile.

In the book of Jasher which is quoted in the OT, it says Benjamin got married at 10, how old do you think his wife was? It didn't say, he has 5 kids and then got another wife at 18 and had 5 more kids, when he met Joseph he had 10 kids.

id love to see the reference to this.

but don't you see a moral differences between a 10 year old boy marrying a girl his age versus a 50 year old marrying a 10 yr old?

Read the book of Jasher and then read about Benjamin in the Jewish Encyl.

I told you liar there is no book of jasper in the Old Testament which means that you are a liar, liar!

Google it. Since it is referred to in the Bible is open reading, you may find it very interesting. Hundreds of writings form the ancients never made it into the Bible. The Book of Jasher was obviously used in writing other parts of the Bible.

what is OBVIOUS about it-----maybe parts of the bible were used in writing the book of Jasher.. Or course hundreds of writings never became part of the bible----
even my own writings will never be part of the bible

 

[irosie91]

I don't know why any Christian would not read anything outside the Bible to know where their God originated from, they will learn it was before the OT. The Book of Jasher is no more MIDRASH than the whole of the OT. Then I suggest one to start the Babylon Talmud. That is a real eye opener.

In what way did the BABYLONIAN TALMUD "open your eyes"? What makes you claim that Jasher is not Midrash? God is supposed to be eternal----of course He came about before the OT or tanach----your statement makes no sense

 

[Penelope]

I don't know why any Christian would not read anything outside the Bible to know where their God originated from, they will learn it was before the OT. The Book of Jasher is no more MIDRASH than the whole of the OT. Then I suggest one to start the Babylon Talmud. That is a real eye opener.

In what way did the BABYLONIAN TALMUD "open your eyes"? What makes you claim that Jasher is not Midrash? God is supposed to be eternal----of course He came about before the OT or tanach----your statement makes no sense

Jasher in my opinion should be read as the OT is. I believe Jasher was wrote before the Ot , well of course it was , the OT was penned in Alexandria.

 

[irosie91]

I don't know why any Christian would not read anything outside the Bible to know where their God originated from, they will learn it was before the OT. The Book of Jasher is no more MIDRASH than the whole of the OT. Then I suggest one to start the Babylon Talmud. That is a real eye opener.

In what way did the BABYLONIAN TALMUD "open your eyes"? What makes you claim that Jasher is not Midrash? God is supposed to be eternal----of course He came about before the OT or tanach----your statement makes no sense

Jasher in my opinion should be read as the OT is. I believe Jasher was wrote before the Ot , well of course it was , the OT was penned in Alexandria.

wrong-----the TANACH was around long before a significant community of jews existed in Alexandria.
I think that you are confusing the SEPTUAGINT with
the OT (or tanach).----gee-----I did not realize that ANYONE could be THAT STUPID--------ROFLMAO----sheeeesh you are dim. FELLOW POSTERS-----
PENELOPE thinks that the tanach was ORIGINALLY WRITTEN IN GREEK -----she thinks that the SEPTUAGINT is the ORIGINAL OT (she refers to the tanach as the "OT") Where is DELTEX-----he is going to get a KICK out of this---------poor Penelope----what a jerk

 

[BluePhantom]

I am Muslim.

Christians read the Bible, more or less frequently. The clergy reads the Bible and the Popes read the Bible. If the Bible is a holy book, it should make its readers holy. This is the purpose of a holy book. Regular and continuous reading of the Bible ought to make one become holy. By holy, I mean the kind of man that the Church will point to saying this is a holy man, a holy Christian, a saint. The problem is, even the popes are not saints. This is no surprise because one can not possibly seriously consider the Bible to be true, this book that dates back 2000 years and claiming to be holy..

Yea, we can see on the news how holy Muslim fanatics are after constantly reading the Quran.

Well in all fairness, let's think of it like this. Islam is roughly 1,400 years old. Let's put Abraham at roughly 2,000 BCE so what were Jews doing to heretics when Judaism was 1,400 years old...around the 7th century BCE? Well they were killing them. In the 15th century CE Christians weren't much different. Disagree with the Church and very quickly you would find the townsfolk roasting marshmallows over your burning corpse. So what Muslims are doing today isn't really all that different than what Jews and Christians were doing 1,400 years into their religion's development.

Now that's not to suggest that we should simply say "Oh the Muslims are just doing what all religions did at that point in their evolution...no biggie." I am in no way endorsing that attitude. I am simply making the observation that Islam has not yet evolved beyond a primal stage in their religious development. At some point they will, just like Jews and Christians eventually did....and keep in mind that it's only been a few hundred years since Christians stopped killing people for religious reasons. It wasn't all that long ago in the grand scheme of things. Eventually, they will come around, but in the meantime we have to deal with what could very easily be considered a "primal religious movement in an advanced modern world". I don't endorse doing that with kid gloves.

 

[irosie91]

I am Muslim.

Christians read the Bible, more or less frequently. The clergy reads the Bible and the Popes read the Bible. If the Bible is a holy book, it should make its readers holy. This is the purpose of a holy book. Regular and continuous reading of the Bible ought to make one become holy. By holy, I mean the kind of man that the Church will point to saying this is a holy man, a holy Christian, a saint. The problem is, even the popes are not saints. This is no surprise because one can not possibly seriously consider the Bible to be true, this book that dates back 2000 years and claiming to be holy..

Yea, we can see on the news how holy Muslim fanatics are after constantly reading the Quran.

Well in all fairness, let's think of it like this. Islam is roughly 1,400 years old. Let's put Abraham at roughly 2,000 BCE so what were Jews doing to heretics when Judaism was 1,400 years old...around the 7th century BCE? Well they were killing them. In the 15th century CE Christians weren't much different. Disagree with the Church and very quickly you would find the townsfolk roasting marshmallows over your burning corpse. So what Muslims are doing today isn't really all that different than what Jews and Christians were doing 1,400 years into their religion's development.

Now that's not to suggest that we should simply say "Oh the Muslims are just doing what all religions did at that point in their evolution...no biggie." I am in no way endorsing that attitude. I am simply making the observation that Islam has not yet evolved beyond a primal stage in their religious development. At some point they will, just like Jews and Christians eventually did....and keep in mind that it's only been a few hundred years since Christians stopped killing people for religious reasons. It wasn't all that long ago in the grand scheme of things. Eventually, they will come around, but in the meantime we have to deal with what could very easily be considered a "primal religious movement in an advanced modern world". I don't endorse doing that with kid gloves.

Blue----you are off base in all aspects of this discussion for so many reasons------especially factual history----that it is difficult to approach an answer to your confusion.----
Start at the beginning-----Abraham actually precedes 2000 BC Jews never made conversion of an individual person-----a capital crime. In order for conversion to be a capital crime-----the person would have to become a LEADER OF A COMPLETELY HERETICAL CULT who enticed large numbers to that
cult----especially if the cult included human sacrifice. "disbelief" is not a capital crime in Judaism---never was. It is true that such people were described as
sick----or "infected with some sort of evil force"-----but infected people were not executed. As to islam being----BEHIND IN DEVELOPEMENT----never come up with that argument when speaking to a muslim------muslims INSIST that islam is and always has been THE MOST ADVANCED----THE MOST MODERN ----THE MOST ON THE CUTTING EDGE ------of advanced philosophical BRILLIANCE

 

[BluePhantom]

I am Muslim.

Christians read the Bible, more or less frequently. The clergy reads the Bible and the Popes read the Bible. If the Bible is a holy book, it should make its readers holy. This is the purpose of a holy book. Regular and continuous reading of the Bible ought to make one become holy. By holy, I mean the kind of man that the Church will point to saying this is a holy man, a holy Christian, a saint. The problem is, even the popes are not saints. This is no surprise because one can not possibly seriously consider the Bible to be true, this book that dates back 2000 years and claiming to be holy..

Yea, we can see on the news how holy Muslim fanatics are after constantly reading the Quran.

Well in all fairness, let's think of it like this. Islam is roughly 1,400 years old. Let's put Abraham at roughly 2,000 BCE so what were Jews doing to heretics when Judaism was 1,400 years old...around the 7th century BCE? Well they were killing them. In the 15th century CE Christians weren't much different. Disagree with the Church and very quickly you would find the townsfolk roasting marshmallows over your burning corpse. So what Muslims are doing today isn't really all that different than what Jews and Christians were doing 1,400 years into their religion's development.

Now that's not to suggest that we should simply say "Oh the Muslims are just doing what all religions did at that point in their evolution...no biggie." I am in no way endorsing that attitude. I am simply making the observation that Islam has not yet evolved beyond a primal stage in their religious development. At some point they will, just like Jews and Christians eventually did....and keep in mind that it's only been a few hundred years since Christians stopped killing people for religious reasons. It wasn't all that long ago in the grand scheme of things. Eventually, they will come around, but in the meantime we have to deal with what could very easily be considered a "primal religious movement in an advanced modern world". I don't endorse doing that with kid gloves.

Start at the beginning-----Abraham actually precedes 2000 BC

I said "Let's put Abraham at 2,000 BCE" as more or less a hypothetical as in...oh somewhere around there just for the sake of argument.

Jews never made conversion of an individual person-----a capital crime. In order for conversion to be a capital crime-----the person would have to become a LEADER OF A COMPLETELY HERETICAL CULT who enticed large numbers to that
cult----especially if the cult included human sacrifice. "disbelief" is not a capital crime in Judaism---never was.

Please read Deuteronomy 13 and get back to me. Pay close attention to verses 6-16

Deuteronomy 13 - Worshiping Other Gods - If a prophet - Bible Gateway

As to islam being----BEHIND IN DEVELOPEMENT----never come up with that argument when speaking to a muslim------muslims INSIST that islam is and always has been THE MOST ADVANCED----THE MOST MODERN ----THE MOST ON THE CUTTING EDGE ------of advanced philosophical BRILLIANCE

They can insist on whatever they want. Pete Carroll still insists that passing on the one yard line was a better call than handing it to Marshawn Lynch too but very few people are buying it.

 

[Penelope]

I am Muslim.

Christians read the Bible, more or less frequently. The clergy reads the Bible and the Popes read the Bible. If the Bible is a holy book, it should make its readers holy. This is the purpose of a holy book. Regular and continuous reading of the Bible ought to make one become holy. By holy, I mean the kind of man that the Church will point to saying this is a holy man, a holy Christian, a saint. The problem is, even the popes are not saints. This is no surprise because one can not possibly seriously consider the Bible to be true, this book that dates back 2000 years and claiming to be holy..

Yea, we can see on the news how holy Muslim fanatics are after constantly reading the Quran.

Well in all fairness, let's think of it like this. Islam is roughly 1,400 years old. Let's put Abraham at roughly 2,000 BCE so what were Jews doing to heretics when Judaism was 1,400 years old...around the 7th century BCE? Well they were killing them. In the 15th century CE Christians weren't much different. Disagree with the Church and very quickly you would find the townsfolk roasting marshmallows over your burning corpse. So what Muslims are doing today isn't really all that different than what Jews and Christians were doing 1,400 years into their religion's development.

Now that's not to suggest that we should simply say "Oh the Muslims are just doing what all religions did at that point in their evolution...no biggie." I am in no way endorsing that attitude. I am simply making the observation that Islam has not yet evolved beyond a primal stage in their religious development. At some point they will, just like Jews and Christians eventually did....and keep in mind that it's only been a few hundred years since Christians stopped killing people for religious reasons. It wasn't all that long ago in the grand scheme of things. Eventually, they will come around, but in the meantime we have to deal with what could very easily be considered a "primal religious movement in an advanced modern world". I don't endorse doing that with kid gloves.

Blue----you are off base in all aspects of this discussion for so many reasons------especially factual history----that it is difficult to approach an answer to your confusion.----
Start at the beginning-----Abraham actually precedes 2000 BC Jews never made conversion of an individual person-----a capital crime. In order for conversion to be a capital crime-----the person would have to become a LEADER OF A COMPLETELY HERETICAL CULT who enticed large numbers to that
cult----especially if the cult included human sacrifice. "disbelief" is not a capital crime in Judaism---never was. It is true that such people were described as
sick----or "infected with some sort of evil force"-----but infected people were not executed. As to islam being----BEHIND IN DEVELOPEMENT----never come up with that argument when speaking to a muslim------muslims INSIST that islam is and always has been THE MOST ADVANCED----THE MOST MODERN ----THE MOST ON THE CUTTING EDGE ------of advanced philosophical BRILLIANCE

very advanced and then along came religions and superstition about numbers.

I am Muslim.

Christians read the Bible, more or less frequently. The clergy reads the Bible and the Popes read the Bible. If the Bible is a holy book, it should make its readers holy. This is the purpose of a holy book. Regular and continuous reading of the Bible ought to make one become holy. By holy, I mean the kind of man that the Church will point to saying this is a holy man, a holy Christian, a saint. The problem is, even the popes are not saints. This is no surprise because one can not possibly seriously consider the Bible to be true, this book that dates back 2000 years and claiming to be holy..

Yea, we can see on the news how holy Muslim fanatics are after constantly reading the Quran.

Well in all fairness, let's think of it like this. Islam is roughly 1,400 years old. Let's put Abraham at roughly 2,000 BCE so what were Jews doing to heretics when Judaism was 1,400 years old...around the 7th century BCE? Well they were killing them. In the 15th century CE Christians weren't much different. Disagree with the Church and very quickly you would find the townsfolk roasting marshmallows over your burning corpse. So what Muslims are doing today isn't really all that different than what Jews and Christians were doing 1,400 years into their religion's development.

Now that's not to suggest that we should simply say "Oh the Muslims are just doing what all religions did at that point in their evolution...no biggie." I am in no way endorsing that attitude. I am simply making the observation that Islam has not yet evolved beyond a primal stage in their religious development. At some point they will, just like Jews and Christians eventually did....and keep in mind that it's only been a few hundred years since Christians stopped killing people for religious reasons. It wasn't all that long ago in the grand scheme of things. Eventually, they will come around, but in the meantime we have to deal with what could very easily be considered a "primal religious movement in an advanced modern world". I don't endorse doing that with kid gloves.

Start at the beginning-----Abraham actually precedes 2000 BC

I said "Let's put Abraham at 2,000 BCE" as more or less a hypothetical as in...oh somewhere around there just for the sake of argument.

Jews never made conversion of an individual person-----a capital crime. In order for conversion to be a capital crime-----the person would have to become a LEADER OF A COMPLETELY HERETICAL CULT who enticed large numbers to that
cult----especially if the cult included human sacrifice. "disbelief" is not a capital crime in Judaism---never was.

Please read Deuteronomy 13 and get back to me. Pay close attention to verses 6-16

Deuteronomy 13 - Worshiping Other Gods - If a prophet - Bible Gateway

As to islam being----BEHIND IN DEVELOPEMENT----never come up with that argument when speaking to a muslim------muslims INSIST that islam is and always has been THE MOST ADVANCED----THE MOST MODERN ----THE MOST ON THE CUTTING EDGE ------of advanced philosophical BRILLIANCE

They can insist on whatever they want. Pete Carroll still insists that passing on the one yard line was a better call than handing it to Marshawn Lynch too but very few people are buying it.

You might want to read about who discovered Algebra and Sumerian Math and Babylon Astrology. I read there are more stars with Arab names than anything. Too bad the Noble prizes were not handed out till 1900. The thing that held Arabs or Muslims back was religion. The only reason Jews have more noble prizes in science is that they learned from others before them and they had the money and schooling in the US in the 1900s, not to mention the Universities in Germany they schooled at , has nothing to do with genes being better or smarter. Actually they now say jews are lagging behind.

 

[irosie91]

I am Muslim.

Christians read the Bible, more or less frequently. The clergy reads the Bible and the Popes read the Bible. If the Bible is a holy book, it should make its readers holy. This is the purpose of a holy book. Regular and continuous reading of the Bible ought to make one become holy. By holy, I mean the kind of man that the Church will point to saying this is a holy man, a holy Christian, a saint. The problem is, even the popes are not saints. This is no surprise because one can not possibly seriously consider the Bible to be true, this book that dates back 2000 years and claiming to be holy..

Yea, we can see on the news how holy Muslim fanatics are after constantly reading the Quran.

Well in all fairness, let's think of it like this. Islam is roughly 1,400 years old. Let's put Abraham at roughly 2,000 BCE so what were Jews doing to heretics when Judaism was 1,400 years old...around the 7th century BCE? Well they were killing them. In the 15th century CE Christians weren't much different. Disagree with the Church and very quickly you would find the townsfolk roasting marshmallows over your burning corpse. So what Muslims are doing today isn't really all that different than what Jews and Christians were doing 1,400 years into their religion's development.

Now that's not to suggest that we should simply say "Oh the Muslims are just doing what all religions did at that point in their evolution...no biggie." I am in no way endorsing that attitude. I am simply making the observation that Islam has not yet evolved beyond a primal stage in their religious development. At some point they will, just like Jews and Christians eventually did....and keep in mind that it's only been a few hundred years since Christians stopped killing people for religious reasons. It wasn't all that long ago in the grand scheme of things. Eventually, they will come around, but in the meantime we have to deal with what could very easily be considered a "primal religious movement in an advanced modern world". I don't endorse doing that with kid gloves.

Start at the beginning-----Abraham actually precedes 2000 BC

I said "Let's put Abraham at 2,000 BCE" as more or less a hypothetical as in...oh somewhere around there just for the sake of argument.

Jews never made conversion of an individual person-----a capital crime. In order for conversion to be a capital crime-----the person would have to become a LEADER OF A COMPLETELY HERETICAL CULT who enticed large numbers to that
cult----especially if the cult included human sacrifice. "disbelief" is not a capital crime in Judaism---never was.

Please read Deuteronomy 13 and get back to me. Pay close attention to verses 6-16

Deuteronomy 13 - Worshiping Other Gods - If a prophet - Bible Gateway

As to islam being----BEHIND IN DEVELOPEMENT----never come up with that argument when speaking to a muslim------muslims INSIST that islam is and always has been THE MOST ADVANCED----THE MOST MODERN ----THE MOST ON THE CUTTING EDGE ------of advanced philosophical BRILLIANCE

They can insist on whatever they want. Pete Carroll still insists that passing on the one yard line was a better call than handing it to Marshawn Lynch too but very few people are buying it.

I am familiar with the whole thing-----and very familiar with HOW the stuff was actually applied-----If you imagine you know jewish law from reading Deuteronomy ----YOU ARE WRONG-------When I read the Koran ----I did not imagine I knew SHARIAH LAW------and I didn't I learned all about it later. Try to keep in mind-----
jews have a LONG WRITTEN history when it comes to
the application of the "torah laws"-----it actually dates back to, at the very least, 1000 years BC----IN DETAIL. Not so unique----there are written accounts of ROMAN AND GREEK laws and how matters were adjudicated too The fact is that the Christian
history is not all that well documented as is ancient
greek, roman and jewish in matters of jurisprudence

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Christians and The Bible"

Muslims and the Koran.

Both equally false.

 

[irosie91]

I am Muslim.

Christians read the Bible, more or less frequently. The clergy reads the Bible and the Popes read the Bible. If the Bible is a holy book, it should make its readers holy. This is the purpose of a holy book. Regular and continuous reading of the Bible ought to make one become holy. By holy, I mean the kind of man that the Church will point to saying this is a holy man, a holy Christian, a saint. The problem is, even the popes are not saints. This is no surprise because one can not possibly seriously consider the Bible to be true, this book that dates back 2000 years and claiming to be holy..

Yea, we can see on the news how holy Muslim fanatics are after constantly reading the Quran.

Well in all fairness, let's think of it like this. Islam is roughly 1,400 years old. Let's put Abraham at roughly 2,000 BCE so what were Jews doing to heretics when Judaism was 1,400 years old...around the 7th century BCE? Well they were killing them. In the 15th century CE Christians weren't much different. Disagree with the Church and very quickly you would find the townsfolk roasting marshmallows over your burning corpse. So what Muslims are doing today isn't really all that different than what Jews and Christians were doing 1,400 years into their religion's development.

Now that's not to suggest that we should simply say "Oh the Muslims are just doing what all religions did at that point in their evolution...no biggie." I am in no way endorsing that attitude. I am simply making the observation that Islam has not yet evolved beyond a primal stage in their religious development. At some point they will, just like Jews and Christians eventually did....and keep in mind that it's only been a few hundred years since Christians stopped killing people for religious reasons. It wasn't all that long ago in the grand scheme of things. Eventually, they will come around, but in the meantime we have to deal with what could very easily be considered a "primal religious movement in an advanced modern world". I don't endorse doing that with kid gloves.

Blue----you are off base in all aspects of this discussion for so many reasons------especially factual history----that it is difficult to approach an answer to your confusion.----
Start at the beginning-----Abraham actually precedes 2000 BC Jews never made conversion of an individual person-----a capital crime. In order for conversion to be a capital crime-----the person would have to become a LEADER OF A COMPLETELY HERETICAL CULT who enticed large numbers to that
cult----especially if the cult included human sacrifice. "disbelief" is not a capital crime in Judaism---never was. It is true that such people were described as
sick----or "infected with some sort of evil force"-----but infected people were not executed. As to islam being----BEHIND IN DEVELOPEMENT----never come up with that argument when speaking to a muslim------muslims INSIST that islam is and always has been THE MOST ADVANCED----THE MOST MODERN ----THE MOST ON THE CUTTING EDGE ------of advanced philosophical BRILLIANCE

very advanced and then along came religions and superstition about numbers.

I am Muslim.

Christians read the Bible, more or less frequently. The clergy reads the Bible and the Popes read the Bible. If the Bible is a holy book, it should make its readers holy. This is the purpose of a holy book. Regular and continuous reading of the Bible ought to make one become holy. By holy, I mean the kind of man that the Church will point to saying this is a holy man, a holy Christian, a saint. The problem is, even the popes are not saints. This is no surprise because one can not possibly seriously consider the Bible to be true, this book that dates back 2000 years and claiming to be holy..

Yea, we can see on the news how holy Muslim fanatics are after constantly reading the Quran.

Well in all fairness, let's think of it like this. Islam is roughly 1,400 years old. Let's put Abraham at roughly 2,000 BCE so what were Jews doing to heretics when Judaism was 1,400 years old...around the 7th century BCE? Well they were killing them. In the 15th century CE Christians weren't much different. Disagree with the Church and very quickly you would find the townsfolk roasting marshmallows over your burning corpse. So what Muslims are doing today isn't really all that different than what Jews and Christians were doing 1,400 years into their religion's development.

Now that's not to suggest that we should simply say "Oh the Muslims are just doing what all religions did at that point in their evolution...no biggie." I am in no way endorsing that attitude. I am simply making the observation that Islam has not yet evolved beyond a primal stage in their religious development. At some point they will, just like Jews and Christians eventually did....and keep in mind that it's only been a few hundred years since Christians stopped killing people for religious reasons. It wasn't all that long ago in the grand scheme of things. Eventually, they will come around, but in the meantime we have to deal with what could very easily be considered a "primal religious movement in an advanced modern world". I don't endorse doing that with kid gloves.

Start at the beginning-----Abraham actually precedes 2000 BC

I said "Let's put Abraham at 2,000 BCE" as more or less a hypothetical as in...oh somewhere around there just for the sake of argument.

Jews never made conversion of an individual person-----a capital crime. In order for conversion to be a capital crime-----the person would have to become a LEADER OF A COMPLETELY HERETICAL CULT who enticed large numbers to that
cult----especially if the cult included human sacrifice. "disbelief" is not a capital crime in Judaism---never was.

Please read Deuteronomy 13 and get back to me. Pay close attention to verses 6-16

Deuteronomy 13 - Worshiping Other Gods - If a prophet - Bible Gateway

As to islam being----BEHIND IN DEVELOPEMENT----never come up with that argument when speaking to a muslim------muslims INSIST that islam is and always has been THE MOST ADVANCED----THE MOST MODERN ----THE MOST ON THE CUTTING EDGE ------of advanced philosophical BRILLIANCE

They can insist on whatever they want. Pete Carroll still insists that passing on the one yard line was a better call than handing it to Marshawn Lynch too but very few people are buying it.

You might want to read about who discovered Algebra and Sumerian Math and Babylon Astrology. I read there are more stars with Arab names than anything. Too bad the Noble prizes were not handed out till 1900. The thing that held Arabs or Muslims back was religion. The only reason Jews have more noble prizes in science is that they learned from others before them and they had the money and schooling in the US in the 1900s, not to mention the Universities in Germany they schooled at , has nothing to do with genes being better or smarter. Actually they now say jews are lagging behind.

Try again Penelope-----Babylon was ----at the time that the arabs got there------ALREADY the intellectual center of the known world-----by virtue of ------INTELLECTUAL ZOROASTRIANS, JEWS ,, AND CHRISTIANS ------Everything that happened in BAGHDAD was galvanized by----ZOROASTRIANS JEWS and CHRISITIANS-----the only reason it got
attributed to "arabs" ---is that Arabic was the IMPOSED
LANGUAGE because the city was RULED by arabs.
The real astronomers are the Zoroastrians-----and
the real mathematicians were the HINDUS ----the Christians and jews carried greek philosophy----
and EVENTUALLY did some translations into Arabic
----jewish merchants carried the math of the hindus
back to BAGHDAD ----an interesting factoid is----
even today IRAQI jews are known for math skills----ie people descended from Iraqi jews -----they generally fled
Iraq ----at various times----to Iran----to Bombay India---
to the US and lately to Israel -----gee you are dim

You may not know------just as jews have a "german"----called YIDDISH-----jews have an ARABIC ---lots of stuff
that was written in "jewish Arabic"-----is claimed by muslims as being "ISLAMIC". I learned about this fact long ago ----when I first encountered Pakistanis. I was amazed at how many historic jews they claimed as being "MUSLIMS" One of them told me about the famous Jew-----who had converted to islam and THEN
became a doctor-------MAIMONIDES!!!!! -------it was a fact he had learned in the medical school in Karachi

 

[Penelope]

I am Muslim.

Christians read the Bible, more or less frequently. The clergy reads the Bible and the Popes read the Bible. If the Bible is a holy book, it should make its readers holy. This is the purpose of a holy book. Regular and continuous reading of the Bible ought to make one become holy. By holy, I mean the kind of man that the Church will point to saying this is a holy man, a holy Christian, a saint. The problem is, even the popes are not saints. This is no surprise because one can not possibly seriously consider the Bible to be true, this book that dates back 2000 years and claiming to be holy..

Yea, we can see on the news how holy Muslim fanatics are after constantly reading the Quran.

Well in all fairness, let's think of it like this. Islam is roughly 1,400 years old. Let's put Abraham at roughly 2,000 BCE so what were Jews doing to heretics when Judaism was 1,400 years old...around the 7th century BCE? Well they were killing them. In the 15th century CE Christians weren't much different. Disagree with the Church and very quickly you would find the townsfolk roasting marshmallows over your burning corpse. So what Muslims are doing today isn't really all that different than what Jews and Christians were doing 1,400 years into their religion's development.

Now that's not to suggest that we should simply say "Oh the Muslims are just doing what all religions did at that point in their evolution...no biggie." I am in no way endorsing that attitude. I am simply making the observation that Islam has not yet evolved beyond a primal stage in their religious development. At some point they will, just like Jews and Christians eventually did....and keep in mind that it's only been a few hundred years since Christians stopped killing people for religious reasons. It wasn't all that long ago in the grand scheme of things. Eventually, they will come around, but in the meantime we have to deal with what could very easily be considered a "primal religious movement in an advanced modern world". I don't endorse doing that with kid gloves.

Blue----you are off base in all aspects of this discussion for so many reasons------especially factual history----that it is difficult to approach an answer to your confusion.----
Start at the beginning-----Abraham actually precedes 2000 BC Jews never made conversion of an individual person-----a capital crime. In order for conversion to be a capital crime-----the person would have to become a LEADER OF A COMPLETELY HERETICAL CULT who enticed large numbers to that
cult----especially if the cult included human sacrifice. "disbelief" is not a capital crime in Judaism---never was. It is true that such people were described as
sick----or "infected with some sort of evil force"-----but infected people were not executed. As to islam being----BEHIND IN DEVELOPEMENT----never come up with that argument when speaking to a muslim------muslims INSIST that islam is and always has been THE MOST ADVANCED----THE MOST MODERN ----THE MOST ON THE CUTTING EDGE ------of advanced philosophical BRILLIANCE

very advanced and then along came religions and superstition about numbers.

Yea, we can see on the news how holy Muslim fanatics are after constantly reading the Quran.

Well in all fairness, let's think of it like this. Islam is roughly 1,400 years old. Let's put Abraham at roughly 2,000 BCE so what were Jews doing to heretics when Judaism was 1,400 years old...around the 7th century BCE? Well they were killing them. In the 15th century CE Christians weren't much different. Disagree with the Church and very quickly you would find the townsfolk roasting marshmallows over your burning corpse. So what Muslims are doing today isn't really all that different than what Jews and Christians were doing 1,400 years into their religion's development.

Now that's not to suggest that we should simply say "Oh the Muslims are just doing what all religions did at that point in their evolution...no biggie." I am in no way endorsing that attitude. I am simply making the observation that Islam has not yet evolved beyond a primal stage in their religious development. At some point they will, just like Jews and Christians eventually did....and keep in mind that it's only been a few hundred years since Christians stopped killing people for religious reasons. It wasn't all that long ago in the grand scheme of things. Eventually, they will come around, but in the meantime we have to deal with what could very easily be considered a "primal religious movement in an advanced modern world". I don't endorse doing that with kid gloves.

Start at the beginning-----Abraham actually precedes 2000 BC

I said "Let's put Abraham at 2,000 BCE" as more or less a hypothetical as in...oh somewhere around there just for the sake of argument.

Jews never made conversion of an individual person-----a capital crime. In order for conversion to be a capital crime-----the person would have to become a LEADER OF A COMPLETELY HERETICAL CULT who enticed large numbers to that
cult----especially if the cult included human sacrifice. "disbelief" is not a capital crime in Judaism---never was.

Please read Deuteronomy 13 and get back to me. Pay close attention to verses 6-16

Deuteronomy 13 - Worshiping Other Gods - If a prophet - Bible Gateway

As to islam being----BEHIND IN DEVELOPEMENT----never come up with that argument when speaking to a muslim------muslims INSIST that islam is and always has been THE MOST ADVANCED----THE MOST MODERN ----THE MOST ON THE CUTTING EDGE ------of advanced philosophical BRILLIANCE

They can insist on whatever they want. Pete Carroll still insists that passing on the one yard line was a better call than handing it to Marshawn Lynch too but very few people are buying it.

You might want to read about who discovered Algebra and Sumerian Math and Babylon Astrology. I read there are more stars with Arab names than anything. Too bad the Noble prizes were not handed out till 1900. The thing that held Arabs or Muslims back was religion. The only reason Jews have more noble prizes in science is that they learned from others before them and they had the money and schooling in the US in the 1900s, not to mention the Universities in Germany they schooled at , has nothing to do with genes being better or smarter. Actually they now say jews are lagging behind.

Try again Penelope-----Babylon was ----at the time that the arabs got there------ALREADY the intellectual center of the known world-----by virtue of ------INTELLECTUAL ZOROASTRIANS, JEWS ,, AND CHRISTIANS ------Everything that happened in BAGHDAD was galvanized by----ZOROASTRIANS JEWS and CHRISITIANS-----the only reason it got
attributed to "arabs" ---is that Arabic was the IMPOSED
LANGUAGE because the city was RULED by arabs.
The real astronomers are the Zoroastrians-----and
the real mathematicians were the HINDUS ----the Christians and jews carried greek philosophy----
and EVENTUALLY did some translations into Arabic
----jewish merchants carried the math of the hindus
back to BAGHDAD ----an interesting factoid is----
even today IRAQI jews are known for math skills----ie people descended from Iraqi jews -----they generally fled
Iraq ----at various times----to Iran----to Bombay India---
to the US and lately to Israel -----gee you are dim

You may not know------just as jews have a "german"----called YIDDISH-----jews have an ARABIC ---lots of stuff
that was written in "jewish Arabic"-----is claimed by muslims as being "ISLAMIC". I learned about this fact long ago ----when I first encountered Pakistanis. I was amazed at how many historic jews they claimed as being "MUSLIMS" One of them told me about the famous Jew-----who had converted to islam and THEN
became a doctor-------MAIMONIDES!!!!! -------it was a fact he had learned in the medical school in Karachi

Oh yes Yiddish, Hebrew died right out, but it was taken from the Canaanites anyway. Your Khazars with a whole new language. I imagine the real Hebrews whoever they were died out with their language, they turned into whoever took them over or wherever they roamed. Your a mut , just like me, and even Pres. Obama said he was a mut. Get over it, probably got some arab in you. Since my grandparents came down from Canada, I am Canadian French, with some British thrown in.