Zone1 Christian Zionism

[PoliticalChic]

That makes it sTubjective and not objective. The difference is bias. Objectivity is devoid of bias. Subjectivity isn't. That's why different people will see it differently. In the context of good and evil, slavery and the holocaust are good analogs to use. It's easy to be objective about evil when evil is being done to you. It's harder to be objective about evil when you are the one doing evil to another.

The dunce to whom you write will never understand because the Left doesn't believe in God.


"If there's no God - making ourselves the source of ethics for everybody, or declaring that nobody can be the source of ethics for anybody, and therefore morality is, again, purely subjective.

Abortion may be legal, and a woman’s right….but this doesn’t it is ethically right. The Greeks believed in a version of same in which they placed deformed babies on the hillside. The reason I use the Greek example of ugly children is not because we do it today, but because they had reason on their side.

Reason supports a lot of things, as for example, a very liberal position on abortion.

If there is no God, "Love your neighbor as yourself" is just a good idea. That's why it is written, incidentally, in Leviticus, "Love your neighbor as yourself, I am God." I, God, tell you to be decent to other people."
Dennis Prager

 

[alang1216]

The dunce to whom you write will never understand because the Left doesn't believe in God.


"If there's no God - making ourselves the source of ethics for everybody, or declaring that nobody can be the source of ethics for anybody, and therefore morality is, again, purely subjective.

Abortion may be legal, and a woman’s right….but this doesn’t it is ethically right. The Greeks believed in a version of same in which they placed deformed babies on the hillside. The reason I use the Greek example of ugly children is not because we do it today, but because they had reason on their side.

Reason supports a lot of things, as for example, a very liberal position on abortion.

If there is no God, "Love your neighbor as yourself" is just a good idea. That's why it is written, incidentally, in Leviticus, "Love your neighbor as yourself, I am God." I, God, tell you to be decent to other people."
Dennis Prager

This dunce knows when people are telling him what they wish were true rather than what is empirically true. Belief in God and the Bible is no help here since the morality of God has changed dramatically as the morality of Western society has changed. Hardly coincidence. Morality is not an individual thing but a reflection of society and evolves as society evolves.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21​

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

 

[ding]

Germany has a long history of hating and killing Jews so it was hardly a novel position. Hitler put a hole in the dam and the hate flowed out with little encouragement.

Antisemitism, or prejudice and hatred against Jews, has existed in Europe for nearly 2,000 years, long before the Nazis. In the middle ages anti-Jewish sentiment was primarily rooted in religious differences. Jews were often portrayed as the "murderers of Jesus" and were blamed for tragedies like the Black Death, leading to massacres, expulsions, and restrictions on their professions and residences (ghettos).

In the 19th century a new, more dangerous form of racial antisemitism emerged, supported by false "pseudo-scientific" theories that categorized Jews as a separate, inferior, and dangerous "race," rather than a religious group.

In the early 20th century, German Jews were largely integrated into society and had equal rights. The turning point was the aftermath of World War I. The Nazi Party, led by Adolf Hitler, capitalized on this widespread discontent.

^^^This is what I am talking about.^^^

The Nazi's used the existing prejudices to falsely blame Jews for Germany's defeat in the war (the "stab-in-the-back" myth) and the subsequent economic problems. Hitler's personal antisemitism was evident in his first known written comments in 1919, where he defined Jews as a race and called for their "removal". The hatred became official government policy when the Nazis seized power in January 1933. The persecution evolved through a series of escalating legal and social measures designed to systematically strip Jews of their rights and isolate them from German society.

• 1933-1934: The first wave of laws excluded Jews from the civil service, legal and medical professions, and public life.
• 1935: The Nuremberg Laws were announced, officially revoking Jewish citizenship and banning marriage or sexual relations between Jews and "German-related" people.
• 1937-1938: The "Aryanization" of Jewish businesses and property began, forcing Jews out of the economy, and marking all Jewish passports with a red "J" (for Jude).
• 1938: The Kristallnacht (Night of Broken Glass) pogrom involved widespread, state-sponsored violence against Jewish homes, businesses, and synagogues, signaling that the persecution had become physical as well as legal.
• 1941: The systematic mass murder of Jews (the Holocaust or Shoah) began in earnest following the invasion of the Soviet Union, culminating in the establishment of death camps.

So even you ought to be able to comprehend that the transition from good to evil occurred in steps or stages. It's not done all at once. They didn't jump straight into gassing Jews. So you should be proud of your role to bring about anti-Christian sentiment.

 

[ding]

Hitler went from being homeless to ruling most of Europe in a less than 2 decades. Genius.

Again... I wouldn't call that genius. I'd call that diabolical. Hitler used the Jews as scapegoats for the severe economic depression of the 1920s and 30s so that he could carry out his personal vendetta against the Jews that he had been planning since 1919 when he called for their removal.

But feel free to keep saying Hitler was a genius. You seem to be patterning your anti-Christian sentiment after his anti-Jewish sentiment.

 

[alang1216]

Antisemitism, or prejudice and hatred against Jews, has existed in Europe for nearly 2,000 years, long before the Nazis. In the middle ages anti-Jewish sentiment was primarily rooted in religious differences. Jews were often portrayed as the "murderers of Jesus" and were blamed for tragedies like the Black Death, leading to massacres, expulsions, and restrictions on their professions and residences (ghettos).

In the 19th century a new, more dangerous form of racial antisemitism emerged, supported by false "pseudo-scientific" theories that categorized Jews as a separate, inferior, and dangerous "race," rather than a religious group.

In the early 20th century, German Jews were largely integrated into society and had equal rights. The turning point was the aftermath of World War I. The Nazi Party, led by Adolf Hitler, capitalized on this widespread discontent.

^^^This is what I am talking about.^^^

The Nazi's used the existing prejudices to falsely blame Jews for Germany's defeat in the war (the "stab-in-the-back" myth) and the subsequent economic problems. Hitler's personal antisemitism was evident in his first known written comments in 1919, where he defined Jews as a race and called for their "removal". The hatred became official government policy when the Nazis seized power in January 1933. The persecution evolved through a series of escalating legal and social measures designed to systematically strip Jews of their rights and isolate them from German society.

• 1933-1934: The first wave of laws excluded Jews from the civil service, legal and medical professions, and public life.
• 1935: The Nuremberg Laws were announced, officially revoking Jewish citizenship and banning marriage or sexual relations between Jews and "German-related" people.
• 1937-1938: The "Aryanization" of Jewish businesses and property began, forcing Jews out of the economy, and marking all Jewish passports with a red "J" (for Jude).
• 1938: The Kristallnacht (Night of Broken Glass) pogrom involved widespread, state-sponsored violence against Jewish homes, businesses, and synagogues, signaling that the persecution had become physical as well as legal.
• 1941: The systematic mass murder of Jews (the Holocaust or Shoah) began in earnest following the invasion of the Soviet Union, culminating in the establishment of death camps.

So even you ought to be able to comprehend that the transition from good to evil occurred in steps or stages. It's not done all at once. They didn't jump straight into gassing Jews. So you should be proud of your role to bring about anti-Christian sentiment.

So you define "existing prejudices" as good? I think the evil was always there, just beneath the surface, and Hitler made it state policy. Christianity has long played a role in the "existing prejudices" that eventually led to the gassing of the Jews.

 

[ding]

I see no goal beyond survival of genes.

Then your life has no meaning or purpose.

I see no God, loving or not.

Did you change your position? I seem to recall you arguing that you were agnostic about God. I seem to recall that your crusade was against the God of Abraham. Pick a lane.

 

[ding]

I think you judge others by your moral compass. Athens was, at one time, a pinnacle of an enlightened society. They also believed the strong do what they want, the weak endure what they must. They didn't share your concept of good and evil.

Then you would be wrong. I judge behaviors and actions, not the person. Honest men can lie. Loving people can hate. etc.

I wouldn't describe anyone as enlightened if they believed there was no distinction between good and evil or that morals were relative. I would describe them as ignorant.

 

[ding]

So you define "existing prejudices" as good?

How did you make that leap in logic?

 

[ding]

I think the evil was always there, just beneath the surface, and Hitler made it state policy. Christianity has long played a role in the "existing prejudices" that eventually led to the gassing of the Jews.

You keep missing the point. The transition from good to evil is an incremental process. It is effectively the normalization of deviance. It's why we have the phrase "nip that in the bud."

 

[alang1216]

Again... I wouldn't call that genius. I'd call that diabolical.

I'd call it both.

 

[alang1216]

Then your life has no meaning or purpose.

It does to me but there is no greater meaning or purpose. You are in the same boat, however much you wish it otherwise.

Did you change your position? I seem to recall you arguing that you were agnostic about God. I seem to recall that your crusade was against the God of Abraham. Pick a lane.

No, I'm agnostic about a creator. When you capitalize God you mean the God of Abraham, in that case I'm an atheist.

 

[alang1216]

Then you would be wrong. I judge behaviors and actions, not the person. Honest men can lie. Loving people can hate. etc.

Seems oxymoronic to me. If men lie they are not honest, if they hate they are not loving. They are just men.

I wouldn't describe anyone as enlightened if they believed there was no distinction between good and evil or that morals were relative. I would describe them as ignorant.

I would describe anyone who believed that morals were absolute as ignorant.

 

[alang1216]

How did you make that leap in logic?

You claimed Hitler took Germany from good to evil in incremental steps. If that were true you must define "existing prejudices" as good. Your words, not mine.

 

[alang1216]

You keep missing the point. The transition from good to evil is an incremental process. It is effectively the normalization of deviance. It's why we have the phrase "nip that in the bud."

The point is that there was never a good society, nor an evil one. All are on a continuum. Not coincidently, the societies that have less power tend to be less evil.

 

[ding]

I'd call it both.

Given that it ended in him committing suicide, I don't understand how you can come to that conclusion. Not to mention parts of Germany being occupied by the Soviets for 49 years. The way Hitler came into power wasn't genius. It was deceitful. He used the same tactic all con men use. Tell them what they want to hear. Genius would have been telling them what they need to hear and then go about building a peaceful and prosperous nation. They certainly had all the pieces.

 

[ding]

It does to me but there is no greater meaning or purpose. You are in the same boat, however much you wish it otherwise.

Pick a lane. You can't have it both ways. You can't say you see no goal beyond survival of genes and then argue you have goals beyond survival of genes. You can't argue there is no purpose and then talk about having a purpose.

No, I'm agnostic about a creator. When you capitalize God you mean the God of Abraham, in that case I'm an atheist.

Again... pick a lane. You can't say you see no God, loving or not, and then say you are agnostic about a creator. Creator and God are synonymous. You are an atheist. You see no God. You can't be agnostic too.

 

[ding]

Seems oxymoronic to me. If men lie they are not honest, if they hate they are not loving. They are just men.

Then by your standard all men are dishonest as it only takes one lie to make them dishonest men. Using your standards are you dishonest? Are you hateful?

But to your point Oxymoronic" describes something that uses or embodies an oxymoron, which is a figure of speech combining two contradictory words (like "deafening silence," "sweet sorrow," or "living dead") to create a new, paradoxical meaning, revealing deeper truths or complex emotions, often for rhetorical effect. It points to self-contradictory ideas, qualities, or phrases, highlighting inherent paradoxes in language or life, such as "ethical banking" or "honest politician".

So yes, saying that honest men can lie is oxymoronic in a sense but it 100% accurate. Are you familiar with the concept of distributions? Because you have to look at the full picture before judging the person. Which is why I choose to not judge the person and limit my judgement to actions and behaviors. It's easy for me to say this or that action were good or bad. It's a little harder for me to say this person or that person is good or bad because I don't have perfect information to make that call.

Be curious, not judgmental. You'll be happier and have more success.

 

[ding]

I would describe anyone who believed that morals were absolute as ignorant.

Spoken like a person who has no understanding of the role logic plays in establishing standards. Which technically makes you the ignorant one.

So what is it that you think I am ignorant about by believing morals are absolute?

 

[ding]

You claimed Hitler took Germany from good to evil in incremental steps. If that were true you must define "existing prejudices" as good. Your words, not mine.

I don't recall speaking those words. I argued that the transition from good to evil occurs in gradual steps. I used the Nazi's genocide of the Jews as an example.

I still don't understand why I must define "existing prejudices" as good. Why can't my observation that the transition from good to evil occurs in gradual steps stand on its own? I can give you more examples if you like. It seems like a pretty simple and easy to understand concept. What is it that you don't get?

Are you wanting to have a discussion on prejudices and tolerance? Is it your argument that because there are things we should not tolerate that somehow that negates the transition from good to evil occurring in gradual steps?

 

[EMH]

When you capitalize God you mean the God of Abraham, in that case I'm an atheist.

because an omniscient God would know

1. stars are actually larger than figs
2. Earth orbits Sun
3. Soon means less than 2000 years from now


To notice the Gawd in da biBULL is bullshit doesn't make one an atheist, it rather proves IQ over 5. It also does not rule out "immortal" life or some sort of living entity controlling matter and galaxies...