Arm waving doesn’t count.
Zone1 Christian Zionism
- Thread starter PoliticalChic
- Start date
Walk me through a miracle performed by Christ and let’s find out together.
Ignorance.
That’s a pretty dumb way to identify a conspiracy. But using your flawed logic that can only mean the accounts of Jesus must be true.
That all depends on if you believe the account was total fiction and had no basis in historical fact. Because if that’s what you believe then your only option is to believe it was a conspiracy.
Because the historical event was Jesus performing miracles. So if you deny that then there is no basis in historical fact and you must believe it was a conspiracy.
That’s because the argument you are making can’t be made. But more importantly you can’t make any distinction whatsoever unless you go through the details of the specific accounts.
It’s frustrating having a discussion with someone who is unwilling to put in the required work to arrive at objective truth because the required work would result in having to accept something they don’t want to accept.
No lie, see here. Sorry if the answer was too simple for you to comprehend.
Event: Jesus preached
Embellishment: He was special and had the power to do miracles
Event: Jesus was crucified
Embellishment: He was resurrected from the dead
You may believe the resurrection and miracles were historical events but I do not. You've give me your evidence and I've given you mine and neither of us were persuaded.
The birth narratives do not depict historical events so I wouldn't even call them embellishments.
I have yet to see you go through the details of the specific accounts. Don't ask me to do your homework. Feel free to pick an example.
I've done the required work, that is why I believe what I believe.
Neither do deflections.
After you. You make the claim they are real. Pick the best example.
What was the event in Matthew 8:1-4? And what was the embellishment?
"When Jesus came down from the mountain, great crowds followed him. And then a leper approached, did him homage, and said, “Lord, if you wish, you can make me clean.” He stretched out his hand, touched him, and said, “I will do it. Be made clean.” His leprosy was cleansed immediately. Then Jesus said to him, “See that you tell no one, but go show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses prescribed; that will be proof for them.”
I do believe that because that's what the evidence shows. You've never performed an extensive study. I have. That's why you can't discuss the details of any of the miracles performed by Jesus and explain what was and wasn't being embellished and why it was being embellished?
Sure I have. The Tower of Babel is the allegorical account of the migration away from the cradle of civilization - Mesopotamia. That is the historical event. The elements are same language, same region to different languages and different regions. The narrative of why the account was embellished (i.e. God was angered and scattered the people) is debatable. It's not covenant related. It could be obedience related. As in they were trying to find another way to heaven other than the way that God had already determined. Or it could simply be that they were describing God intended for diversity.
The whole world had the same language and the same words. When they were migrating from the east, they came to a valley in the land of Shinar and settled there. They said to one another, “Come, let us mold bricks and harden them with fire.” They used bricks for stone, and bitumen for mortar. Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the sky, and so make a name for ourselves; otherwise we shall be scattered all over the earth.” The LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the people had built. Then the LORD said: If now, while they are one people and all have the same language, they have started to do this, nothing they presume to do will be out of their reach. Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that no one will understand the speech of another. So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. That is why it was called Babel, because there the LORD confused the speech of all the world. From there the LORD scattered them over all the earth.
No. You haven't.
Again... you have to go through the details of each miracle and explain what was and wasn't being embellished and why it was being embellished.
I've looked at all of the new testament accounts of miracles performed by Christ. I can't make an argument for embellishment for any of them. Because the miracles are the historical events. These accounts are not like the OT accounts. I can understand how and why those accounts were embellished. I can't for the NT accounts of the miracles performed by Christ.
Event: Jesus came down from the mountain to preach
Embellishment: He healed a leper
ALL OF THE MIRACLES ARE EMBELLISHMENTS. NONE OF THEM EVER HAPPENED. Can I be more clear?
Where did it say Jesus came down to preach? It doesn't.
What did he preach? He didn't.
Why was his preaching embellished? It wasn't. In fact he asked that what he had done not be told to anyone.
"When Jesus came down from the mountain, great crowds followed him. And then a leper approached, did him homage, and said, “Lord, if you wish, you can make me clean.” He stretched out his hand, touched him, and said, “I will do it. Be made clean.” His leprosy was cleansed immediately. Then Jesus said to him, “See that you tell no one, but go show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses prescribed; that will be proof for them.”
Except you can't explain what was and wasn't being embellished and why it was being embellished for any of them.
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