Zone1 Christian Zionism

[ding]

Why was he there if not to preach?

Journeying. Moving on from there Jesus walked by the Sea of Galilee, went up on the mountain, and sat down there. Great crowds came to him, having with them the lame, the blind, the deformed, the mute, and many others. They placed them at his feet, and he cured them. The crowds were amazed when they saw the mute speaking, the deformed made whole, the lame walking, and the blind able to see, and they glorified the God of Israel. Matthew 15:29-31.

No mention of preaching. Just performing miracles. So what was embellished in Matthew 15:29-31 and why was it embellished?

Pagans were transactional.

So your answer to the question of "Where does it say Jesus must be an agent of God since he could perform miracles?" is that pagans were transactional?

The honest answer is it doesn't say "Jesus must be an agent of God since he could perform miracles." Right? Which means it couldn't have been an embellishment because it was never mentioned.

It says what the writers wanted to say and they were more concerned with theology than history.

No. The account says that Jesus traveled to the region of Tyre and Sidon and healed a Canaanites woman daughter. That's what the account says. So what was the historical significance of this passage, how was it embellished and why was it embellished?

That or just admit you believe it is all lies and the product of a massive conspiracy.

 

[ding]

All the pagan myths were transmitted orally, doesn't mean they actually happened.

We were discussing the OT. Did you get confused? Or are you suggesting Jews are pagans?

But assuming you did get confused, you seem to be ignoring the sheer volume of the accounts of miracles performed by Jesus. And the one's who wrote the gospels weren't pagans, they were Jewish Christians. So you can't write off the sheer number of miracles to pagan myths or embellishment. But you could dismiss them as lies perpetrated as part of a Jewish Christian conspiracy.

Would you like to change your answer because I have a lot more passages that blow your your embellishment theory out of the water.

 

[ding]

This getting redundant.
Event: Jesus came to preach in Gennesaret.
Embellishment: He healed the sick to demonstrate the power of his god versus other gods.

Setting aside this ridiculous claim, why was it embellished? For what reason or purpose?

It only seems redundant to you because you are the one being made to look like a fool with your ridiculous explanations.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"Today US Christian Zionists take many forms. Some, such as Ted Cruz, ...if we support Israel, God will support America."

End-Times for Christian Zionism

Evangelical Christian Zionism used to be one of the most coherent voting blocs in the US. But cracks are starting to appear in this coalition as its members grow disillusioned with Israel and enamored by Christian nationalism.

jacobin.com

Judaism and Zionism are mutually exclusive

You can support Judaism and be repulsed by Bibs drive to turn the entire world against Israel

 

[alang1216]

That or just admit you believe it is all lies and the product of a massive conspiracy.

I will if you will admit the story of the Tower of Babel is all lies and the product of a massive conspiracy.

 

[alang1216]

We were discussing the OT. Did you get confused? Or are you suggesting Jews are pagans?

Jews were pagans until the time of the Babylonian captivity when they encountered Zoroastrianism. And I was not confused, you mentioned transmitting information orally and the OT is hardly the only example.

But assuming you did get confused, you seem to be ignoring the sheer volume of the accounts of miracles performed by Jesus. And the one's who wrote the gospels weren't pagans, they were Jewish Christians. So you can't write off the sheer number of miracles to pagan myths or embellishment. But you could dismiss them as lies perpetrated as part of a Jewish Christian conspiracy.

Of the miracles you mentioned in Mathew, which are found in the other gospels? Textual criticism would say that any story found only in one source is suspect.

Would you like to change your answer because I have a lot more passages that blow your your embellishment theory out of the water.

I look forward to hearing them but don't be surprise if my answer is the same for each.

 

[ding]

I will if you will admit the story of the Tower of Babel is all lies and the product of a massive conspiracy.

Why? I explained the historical event that was being passed down in an allegorical fashion and why it was being passed down in an allegorical fashion.

You have done no such thing.

 

[ding]

Of the miracles you mentioned in Mathew, which are found in the other gospels? Textual criticism would say that any story found only in one source is suspect.

We are talking about your bullshit embellishment argument. For which you have never explained why any specific account (which I have given four) was embellished.

But yes, I do believe the four examples I provided are found in Matthew, Mark and Luke. Got any more red herring you'd like to try?

 

[ding]

I look forward to hearing them but don't be surprise if my answer is the same for each.

Great. Start with the last one you didn't comment on.

Moving on from there Jesus walked by the Sea of Galilee, went up on the mountain, and sat down there. Great crowds came to him, having with them the lame, the blind, the deformed, the mute, and many others. They placed them at his feet, and he cured them. The crowds were amazed when they saw the mute speaking, the deformed made whole, the lame walking, and the blind able to see, and they glorified the God of Israel. Matthew 15:29-31.

No mention of preaching. Just performing miracles. So what was embellished in Matthew 15:29-31 and why was it embellished?

 

[ding]

Jews were pagans until the time of the Babylonian captivity when they encountered Zoroastrianism. And I was not confused, you mentioned transmitting information orally and the OT is hardly the only example.

So that was a yes, you did get confused because you still haven't explained why the NT was embellished and what exactly they were passing down? Were they passing down Jesus performed a butt load of miracles?

 

[ding]

don't be surprise if my answer is the same for each

Your dishonesty isn't surprising me anymore. I will admit I was a little shocked by it at first.

Let's go back to the first account. Can you tell me exactly what knowledge they were passing down?

Then Jesus went from that place and withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. And behold, a Canaanite woman of that district came and called out, “Have pity on me, Lord, Son of David! My daughter is tormented by a demon.” But he did not say a word in answer to her. His disciples came and asked him, “Send her away, for she keeps calling out after us.” He said in reply, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” But the woman came and did him homage, saying, “Lord, help me.” He said in reply, “It is not right to take the food of the children* and throw it to the dogs.” She said, “Please, Lord, for even the dogs eat the scraps that fall from the table of their masters.” Then Jesus said to her in reply, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed from that hour.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Judaism and Zionism are mutually exclusive

You can support Judaism and be repulsed by Bibs drive to turn the entire world against Israel

"Judaism and Zionism are mutually exclusive"


Absurd.

 

[alang1216]

Why? I explained the historical event that was being passed down in an allegorical fashion and why it was being passed down in an allegorical fashion.

You have done no such thing.

So you claim there was an actual place (the Tower of Babel) where all the languages of Earth originated?

 

[alang1216]

We are talking about your bullshit embellishment argument. For which you have never explained why any specific account (which I have given four) was embellished.

But yes, I do believe the four examples I provided are found in Matthew, Mark and Luke. Got any more red herring you'd like to try?

Only one miracle is found in all the gospels, the loaves and fishes. Since Mark was a source for Matthew and Luke it is not surprising to see overlap there. Curious though that all of them contain miracles not found in the others.

 

[alang1216]

Great. Start with the last one you didn't comment on.

Moving on from there Jesus walked by the Sea of Galilee, went up on the mountain, and sat down there. Great crowds came to him, having with them the lame, the blind, the deformed, the mute, and many others. They placed them at his feet, and he cured them. The crowds were amazed when they saw the mute speaking, the deformed made whole, the lame walking, and the blind able to see, and they glorified the God of Israel. Matthew 15:29-31.

No mention of preaching. Just performing miracles. So what was embellished in Matthew 15:29-31 and why was it embellished?

No mention of sleeping or eating but I'm guessing he did those things too. The miracles were all embellishments added by Matthew or taken from Mark.

 

[alang1216]

So that was a yes, you did get confused because you still haven't explained why the NT was embellished and what exactly they were passing down? Were they passing down Jesus performed a butt load of miracles?

The NT was embellished for the same reasons that the OT was embellished.

 

[alang1216]

Your dishonesty isn't surprising me anymore. I will admit I was a little shocked by it at first.

Let's go back to the first account. Can you tell me exactly what knowledge they were passing down?

Then Jesus went from that place and withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. And behold, a Canaanite woman of that district came and called out, “Have pity on me, Lord, Son of David! My daughter is tormented by a demon.” But he did not say a word in answer to her. His disciples came and asked him, “Send her away, for she keeps calling out after us.” He said in reply, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” But the woman came and did him homage, saying, “Lord, help me.” He said in reply, “It is not right to take the food of the children* and throw it to the dogs.” She said, “Please, Lord, for even the dogs eat the scraps that fall from the table of their masters.” Then Jesus said to her in reply, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed from that hour.

Same answer I gave the first time you asked.

 

[ding]

So you claim there was an actual place (the Tower of Babel)

The account was about the migration from Mesopotamia. Which I already shared with you. See?

The Tower of Babel is the allegorical account of the migration away from the cradle of civilization - Mesopotamia.

where all the languages of Earth originated?

I don't believe so. Why do you think that is important in understanding how embellishment was used in that account?

 

[ding]

Only one miracle is found in all the gospels, the loaves and fishes. Since Mark was a source for Matthew and Luke it is not surprising to see overlap there. Curious though that all of them contain miracles not found in the others.

That has nothing to do with the question of were the miracles performed by Jesus historic events or were they embellished or made up. You are arguing they were embellished. You need to show how they were embellished and explain why.

 

[ding]

No mention of sleeping or eating but I'm guessing he did those things too. The miracles were all embellishments added by Matthew or taken from Mark.

If the miracles never happened then why were they embellished or made up? Using the accounts you need to show how and why? Which you can't do because they weren't embellished.