Zone1 Christendom's Trinity - Where Did It Come From?

[hobelim]

Why did it take two Roman Emperors/politicians, neither of whom were Christians, to enforce the official Trinity dogma some 300 years after Jesus Christ left the earthly scene?

Mithraism was the secret Babylonian MYSTERY RELIGION of the Roman government and military. When Rome assimilated and perverted Christianity in 325CE it created the antichrist, a false counterfeit substitute Jesus made in the image and likeness of Mithras and set out to conquer the world under the sign of the Mithran cross.


* Mithra was born on December 25th. Called "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun", it was incorporated into the church in the 4th century AD as the birthday of Christ. Although Jesus was born in October, christians today celebrate Mithra' birthday, believing it was Jesus' birthday.

* Mithra' birth was witnessed by shepherds and by Magi (wise men) who brought gifts to his sacred birth-cave of the Rock

* He was considered a great travelling teacher and master.

* He had 12 companions or disciples, which in Mithraism were represented by the 12 astrological signs.

* He performed miracles.

* He was buried in a tomb.

* After three days he rose again, but with no witnesses to the event

* His triumph over death and ascension to heaven were celebrated at the Mithran's most important festival, Easter, held at the spring equinox when the sun rises toward its apogee

* Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."

* He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."

* In the cult's rituals, Mithra was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.

* His sacred day was Sunday, and was called "the Lord's Day" hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.

* Mithraism had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper" in which bread was eaten as a symbol of Mithra' body, and wine was drunk as a symbol of the blood shed when Mithra overpowered and killed the bull

* Mithra performed many miracles, including raising the dead, healing the sick, making the blind see and the lame walk, casting out devils.

* Mithra was said to carry keys to the kingdom of heaven.

* Mithra was called the god of light and truth, the god of mediation between god and man. He was to his worshippers The creator of life; The Mediator between man and the higher gods; The God of light; The All-seeing one; The Guardian of oaths (covenants); The Protector of the righteous in this world and also in the next.

* A trinity godhead comprised of Mithra (divine god of truth), Rashnu (divine god of justice, judgement and righteousness), Vohu Manah (divine spirit of enlightenment). These three persons were separate yet they were one.

Before returning to heaven, Mithra was said to have celebrated a Last Supper with followers, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac. In memory of this, his worshippers partook of a sacramental meal of bread marked with the Mithran cross of light. This was one of the seven Mithraic sacraments, believed to be the models for the Christians' seven sacraments, which follow them identically. It was called mizd, latin missa, English mass. Mithra' image was buried in a rock tomb, the same sacred cave that represented his mother's womb. He was withdrawn from it and said to live again.

Mithraism was an ascetic, anti-female religion. Its priesthood consisted of celibate men only

 

[Donald H]

What difference could it possibly make to anybody when Christians won't divide the bibles up into parts that are literally true and the parts that are just allegorical nonsense?

Allegory instructs that 3 are 1 and one is 3, and the ark was a world cruise for dinosaurs.

 

[hobelim]

What difference could it possibly make to anybody when Christians won't divide the bibles up into parts that are literally true and the parts that are just allegorical nonsense?

"So he drove the man out, and to the east of Eden he stationed the Cherubim, with a flaming and flashing sword, THAT TURNS IN EVERY DIRECTION, to guard the way to the tree of life."

 

[Donald H]

"So he drove the man out, and to the east of Eden he stationed the Cherubim, with a flaming and flashing sword, THAT TURNS IN EVERY DIRECTION, to guard the way to the tree of life."

Flaming sword?

More nonsense.

 

[hobelim]

Flaming sword?

More nonsense.

Sure, if that's all you can see. You do have my condolences.


"I have not come to bring peace but a sword"

"From his mouth there went a sharp sword with which to smite the nations."

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

"Take this cup of wine and drink it, all of you. This is a cup of my blood, the blood of the covenant."

"Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I am sending among you."

"Just art thou, in these thy judgments, thou Holy One who art and wast; for they shed the blood of thy people and of thy prophets and thou hast given them blood to drink."

 

[Cougarbear]

In the beginning was the word. and the word was with the God (Ho theos), and the word was like God, (theos) (not God).

This just means that the existing metaphor for the word of God, manna from heaven, became the flesh of Jesus, a new metaphor for a new revelation from God.

It was never about God becoming a man.

Why are you adding words? That is not allowed according to John. The word is "WITH" God. It isn't saying Jesus (Jehovah) was the Father. He was with the Father in the beginning. So, the last statement means that Jesus is God. So is the Father. Both are God and were with each other in the beginning. Actually, we all were.

 

[hobelim]

So, the last statement means that Jesus is God

No. The Gospel of John was written in Greek.

In Greek the word for God is Ho Theos. "The God". Theos without the definite article Ho before it means "like God" or Godlike.

In the beginning was the Word, LOGOS, (Divine reasoning). and the Word was with Ho Theos, (the God), and the Word was theos, (like God).

NOT GOD.

 

[Cougarbear]

No. The Gospel of John was written in Greek.

In Greek the word for God is Ho Theos. "The God". Theos without the definite article Ho before it means "like God" or Godlike.

In the beginning was the Word, LOGOS, (Divine reasoning). and the Word was with Ho Theos, (the God), and the Word was theos, (like God).

NOT GOD.

I found this online. In fact, everything on line says pretty much the same thing.
"ho theos" (ὁ θεός) means "the God" (referring to the one and only God) while "theos" (θεός) can mean "god" or "goddess" in a more general sense, sometimes referring to false deities."

See, translating from one language to another always will not be exact in understanding. This is where confirmation bias and other biases come into play. One more reason for the need of a Prophet of God and/or a 2nd witness to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It takes 2 or more to come together in His name to solidify truth. Until you have from another written authority or a true Prophet of God, your interpretation is no better than anyone else's.

Fortunately, I have both to know the truth. I follow true Prophets of God and a 2nd witness to the Bible, the Book of Mormon, another Testament of Jesus Christ. You can poo-poo it all you want. But, I've got my 2nd witness to come together in His (Jesus) name. So, here is the true Interpretation of John 1:1. "In the beginning (of the creation of the universe and not everything), was the Word (Jehovah or Jesus, choose your name). The Word was with God (Father in Heaven). The word was God (a God, the Son of God)." So, the Trinitarian view that the Father and Son are the same personage is incorrect. There are two literal Gods. The God and a God or the Son of God (Lord God). And, don't try to come back with "Ho" means this and "Ho means that, Or, without "Ho" means this or that either. Because 99.99999% of translators you find except JW's say "Ho" means "with the God." And, without "Ho", Theo by itself is "A" God. You are out on a limb by yourself. Good luck.

 

[ding]

Sure, anyone can see the many wonderful things worshipping and eating a triune mangod has done for you.

"And as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him." John 13:27

Satan misquoted Scripture too.

 

[Votto]

Although Trinity is the most important doctrine within most of Christendom's 41,000 denominations, Trinitarians ignore the following facts:



1. There are no scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible in support of the dogma of a 3-in-1 god, in which there are three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) that are co-equal and co-eternal.

2. Neither Jesus Christ nor his disciples of the 1st century AD promoted the teaching that there are three persons within a "godhead," all of whom are co-equal and co-eternal.

3. Trinity did not become official Christian teaching until the 4th century AD, some 300 years after Jesus Christ left the earthly scene and returned to heavenly life, and some 300 years after the last book of the Bible was written.


It would surprise some that there were trinity gods throughout the pagan world for centuries before the idea of a 3-in-1 god was adopted by Christendom. Below are four such examples:


A. In the 2nd century BCE (two centuries before Jesus Christ came to the earth), Egypt had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Horus, (2) Osiris, and (3) Isis.


B. In the 2nd century B.C.E., Babylon had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Ishtar, (2) Sin, and (3) Shamash.


C. In the 1st century C.E., Palmyra, which was an ancient city in Syria, had a triune god which consisted of (1) moon god, (2) Lord of Heavens, and (3) sun god.


D. Even the Hindus in India have their own trinity of gods, as follows: (1) Brahma, (2) Vishnu, and (3) Shiva.



QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:

1. If the teaching of a Trinity god is essential to Christianity, how is it that the doctrine is nowhere to be found in scriptures within Jehovah's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible?



2. If Jesus Christ is part of a trinity in which he has the same power (co-equal) and the same eternity (co-eternal) as Jehovah the Father, how is it that the scriptures repeatedly inform us that Jesus Christ is subservient to Almighty God Jehovah (indicating inequality) and why is it that scripture tells us over and over again that Jesus Christ is "begotten" (indicating he had a beginning)?



3. Why did it take two Roman Emperors/politicians, neither of whom were Christians, to enforce the official Trinity dogma some 300 years after Jesus Christ left the earthly scene?

It is in scripture, you just need to read it and understand it.

Key is when Jesus asked his disciples who he was.

Matthew 16:13

13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 ;“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. ”Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

First of all, Jesus indicates that only the Father can reveal who he is to whom he chooses. It is a question asked of every man, woman, and child on earth today, which is, "Who do you say I am?"

Secondly, when Peter says that he is the Son of the living God, it is not like telling him that all of them are sons of the living God. What is being said here is much more than that, as evidence by Jesus then instructing them all not to reveal that he was the Son of the Living God. Why? Because that would have been considered blasphemy as they would immediately set out to kill him for saying it. Why? Because he was making a declaration that he was in some way equal with the Father, he and he alone. In fact, they later crucified on the charge of blasphemy, because he was making himself an equal with the Father.

Another scripture anti-trinitarians have issue with is John chapter 8

48The Jews answered Him, “Are we not right to say that You are a Samaritan and You have a demon?”

49“I do not have a demon,” Jesus replied, “but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50I do not seek My own glory. There is One who seeks it, and He is the Judge. 51Truly, truly, I tell you, if anyone keeps My word, he will never see death.”

52“Now we know that You have a demon!” declared the Jews. “Abraham died, and so did the prophets, yet You say that anyone who keeps Your word will never taste death. 53Are You greater than our father Abraham? He died, as did the prophets. Who do You claim to be?”

54Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory means nothing. The One who glorifies Me is My Father, of whom you say, ‘He is ourg God.’ 55You do not know Him, but I know Him. If I said I did not know Him, I would be a liar like you. But I do know Him, and I keep His word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see My day. He saw it and was glad.”

57Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?”

58“Truly, truly, I tell you,” Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I am!h”

59At this, they picked up stones to throw at Him. But Jesus was hidden and went out of the temple area.

Obviously, Jesus is not just a mere mortal as we, he is much more.

And finally, John says this in chapter 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus is described as the word of God himself coming into existence.

 

[hobelim]

I found this online. In fact, everything on line says pretty much the same thing.
"ho theos" (ὁ θεός) means "the God" (referring to the one and only God) while "theos" (θεός) can mean "god" or "goddess" in a more general sense, sometimes referring to false deities."

So then, you agree that the passage does not say that "the word was with God and the word was God." It says "The word, Logos, (divine reasoning) was with God and the word was 'like God". NOT Ho Theos. Not 'The God'.

Right?

So what's your problem? By claiming that Jesus is God you are lying in the name of "The God". What then? You are going to just ignore that and continue to sin? How is it that you don't know the ONLY right course to take?

Who is going to believe that you are saved now? That you belong to the only true religion? Unfuckinbelievable!

What blindness!

 

[hobelim]

Satan misquoted Scripture too.

Ahem. That is not a misquote. Its an exact quote. At the last supper, according to the Gospel of John, Judas was the only one given bread as a way for Jesus to identify his betrayer to the others. Consider yourself identified!

"And as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him." John 13:27 That's the 'relationship' you entered.

If you don't believe me you can look it up. Either that or be honest with yourself which would be a real miracle.

No one knows better than you that you have not seen or heard a single word from God for your entire life.

Where the hell do you suppose that places you if not in hell? You openly and brazenly defy the Law of my God.

You have your reward already!

 

[Alter2Ego]

It is in scripture, you just need to read it and understand it.
Key is when Jesus asked his disciples who he was.
Matthew 16:13
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Votto:

You debunked your claim with the very first set of verses that you quoted from Matthew chapter 16. Notice the portions that I bolded in red from verse 13.

 

[Alter2Ego]

I have attempted before to explain that their is a Godhead of 3. I'll keep it simple with a few NT verses. To start with, the word "Godhead." Colossians 2:9, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." This is speaking of Jesus Christ being one member of the Godhead and has a physical body.

Cougarbear:

The word "Godhead" is a fabricated word that showed up in John Wycliffe's English translation of the Bible as "Godhede"--get this--over 1,300 years AFTER the last book of the Bible was written.

Not surprisingly, the word "Godhead" is nowhere to be found in the oldest existing manuscripts from which modern Bibles were translated.

Alter2Ego

 

[onefour1]

Cougarbear:

The word "Godhead" is a fabricated word that showed up in John Wycliffe's English translation of the Bible as "Godhede"--get this--over 1,300 years AFTER the last book of the Bible was written.

Not surprisingly, the word "Godhead" is nowhere to be found in the oldest existing manuscripts from which modern Bibles were translated.

Alter2Ego

From Biblehub's interlinear bible.

Englishman's Concordance θεότητος (theotētos) — 1 Occurrence Colossians 2:9 N-GFS GRK: πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς NAS: the fullness of Deity dwells KJV: all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. INT: fullness of the Deity bodily Interlinear Greek • Interlinear Hebrew • Strong's Numbers • Englishman's Greek Concordance • Englishman's Hebrew Concordance • Parallel Texts Englishman's Concordance θεῖον (theion) — 1 Occurrence Acts 17:29 Adj-ANS GRK: ἀνθρώπου τὸ θεῖον εἶναι ὅμοιον NAS: not to think that the Divine Nature is like KJV: not to think that the Godhead is like INT: of man that which [is] divine to be like Interlinear Greek • Interlinear Hebrew • Strong's Numbers • Englishman's Greek Concordance • Englishman's Hebrew Concordance • Parallel Texts What is the consensus on what these two words translate to mean in English? θεότητος (theotētos) and θεῖον (theion) ​

​

 

[ninja007]

Is the Trinity taught in the Old Testament? | GotQuestions.org

Is the Trinity taught in the Old Testament? Can the doctrine of the Trinity be defended with support from the Old Testament?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Cougarbear]

Cougarbear:

The word "Godhead" is a fabricated word that showed up in John Wycliffe's English translation of the Bible as "Godhede"--get this--over 1,300 years AFTER the last book of the Bible was written.

Not surprisingly, the word "Godhead" is nowhere to be found in the oldest existing manuscripts from which modern Bibles were translated.

Alter2Ego

Here we go again trying to use translation and interpretation of anti-Mormon clowns to justify their in ability to read the word. Yes, Godhead. A quorum of three. You can deny the Holy Ghost all you want. It’s your free moral agency to do so.

 

[ding]

Ahem. That is not a misquote. Its an exact quote. At the last supper, according to the Gospel of John, Judas was the only one given bread as a way for Jesus to identify his betrayer to the others. Consider yourself identified!

"And as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him." John 13:27 That's the 'relationship' you entered.

If you don't believe me you can look it up. Either that or be honest with yourself which would be a real miracle.

No one knows better than you that you have not seen or heard a single word from God for your entire life.

Where the hell do you suppose that places you if not in hell? You openly and brazenly defy the Law of my God.

You have your reward already!

When taken out of context to mean something than intended, that’s a misquote. Which is what you do pretty much always.

 

[hobelim]

When taken out of context to mean something than intended, that’s a misquote. Which is what you do pretty much always.

No, you are wrong. The context was the Last Supper during which, according to the other 3 Gospels, Jesus established a memorial bondage, iniquitous eucharistic worship, the exact same existing ritual of Mithraism. But, according to the Gospel of John, the only talk about 'eat my flesh and drink my blood' was before the last supper which Jesus explained was a metaphor for his WORDS, Jn 6:63, and the only one given bread DURING the last supper was Judas as a way for Jesus to identify his betrayer. This is not an accidental or irrelevant discrepancy.

Here lies the test: Which Gospel is right? Did Jesus promote an existing Mithraic ritual or did he expose his betrayer? Obviously you failed the test miserably. Like I said, you have been identified. It can't be undone dingus.

Deal with it.

 

[ding]

No, you are wrong. The context was the Last Supper during which, according to the other 3 Gospels, Jesus established a memorial bondage, iniquitous eucharistic worship, the exact same existing ritual of Mithraism. But, according to the Gospel of John, the only talk about 'eat my flesh and drink my blood' was before the last supper which Jesus explained was a metaphor for his WORDS, Jn 6:63, and the only one given bread DURING the last supper was Judas as a way for Jesus to identify his betrayer. This is not an accidental or irrelevant discrepancy.

Here lies the test: Which Gospel is right? Did Jesus promote an existing Mithraic ritual or did he expose his betrayer? Obviously you failed the test miserably. Like I said, you have been identified. It can't be undone dingus.

Deal with it.

The entirety of the gospels says Jesus did sacrifice his flesh and blood as foretold in Isaiah 53 and Psalms 22.

You aren't the first person to be shocked by Jesus' command to eat his flesh and drink his blood. He lost a lot of disciples over that command.

1. Jesus said he was the bread of life and whoever ate this bread would have eternal life. John 6:48-51
2. The Jews quarreled and said how can this man give us his flesh to eat. John 6:52
3. So rather than softening his stance he doubled down and said very clearly, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. John 6:53
4. Afterwards his disciples said, this is hard to take. John 6:60
5. Jesus asked them, does this shock you. John 6:61
6. Then Jesus explained that it is the spirit that gives life. The flesh is of no avail. John 6:62-63
7. But they didn't believe in Jesus and they couldn't accept what he was saying because it shocked them like it is shocking you. As a result of this, many [of] his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. John 6:64-65

He let disciples walk away rather than to soften his stance and make it symbolic. He was given an opportunity to soften it and instead he reinforced what he said by saying the flesh is of no avail.