Child Support is unfair

[paravani]

... the custodial parent.

According to IRS tax code, the parent who pays more than 50% towards the support of the child gets the deduction. That may very well be the non-custodial parent.

Whoever gets the deduction, it's wise to work it out in advance. You can agree -- at least, if you're civil to each other -- who gets the tax deduction, and the IRS will never step in with questions unless both of you insist on claiming it.

When I was raising our daughter, my ex- sent custodial payments that were significantly smaller than the courts would have decided, but were what he felt he could comfortably pay. My new husband was her primary support, so we all agreed that he should be able to claim her as a dependent.

... but then, my ex- and I have always got along well, and managed to divorce amicably without the aid of a lawyer. (I did talk to one; but all she wanted was for us to fight about money. I wasn't into that game.)

-- Paravani

The only unfair thing about child support the one who is paying it can't use it as a tax deduction I pay a thousand a month for one child and can't use it as a deduction

Why should you be able to use it as a tax deduction? I don't get a tax deduction for the money I spend on rent, food, clothing, lessons, medical costs for my children. Why should you?

And Amy is absolutely right...it's not tracked because it's meant to maintain a lifestyle for the children...it's not meant to be spent JUST on the children directly. Whether it's spent on rent, mom's clothing, the car, landscaping the yard, or vacations, those are things that add to the well being of the family and as such benefit the children.

Why should the woman be allowed to use child support as an income? And get the tax deduction?

.

 

[sealadaigh]

Uh...what safety nets are available to mothers that aren't available to mothers?

to fathers, and 25 years ago, quite a few. nthey didn't even have changing tables in men's rooms, which i raised hell aabout to everybody i could until they started potting them in.

how about paternity leave. i was given custody and had like four days to set things up.

 

[koshergrl]

Name some. And I don't know what you mean when you say "how about maternity leave" or "I had four days to set things up". No clue.

 

[sealadaigh]

... the custodial parent.

According to IRS tax code, the parent who pays more than 50% towards the support of the child gets the deduction. That may very well be the non-custodial parent.
Whoever gets the deduction, it's wise to work it out in advance. You can agree -- at least, if you're civil to each other -- who gets the tax deduction, and the IRS will never step in with questions unless both of you insist on claiming it.

When I was raising our daughter, my ex- sent custodial payments that were significantly smaller than the courts would have decided, but were what he felt he could comfortably pay. My new husband was her primary support, so we all agreed that he should be able to claim her as a dependent.

... but then, my ex- and I have always got along well, and managed to divorce amicably without the aid of a lawyer. (I did talk to one; but all she wanted was for us to fight about money. I wasn't into that game.)

-- Paravani

Why should you be able to use it as a tax deduction? I don't get a tax deduction for the money I spend on rent, food, clothing, lessons, medical costs for my children. Why should you?

And Amy is absolutely right...it's not tracked because it's meant to maintain a lifestyle for the children...it's not meant to be spent JUST on the children directly. Whether it's spent on rent, mom's clothing, the car, landscaping the yard, or vacations, those are things that add to the well being of the family and as such benefit the children.

Why should the woman be allowed to use child support as an income? And get the tax deduction?

.

and sometime the court costs entailed to win the right to claim that tax dedustion outweigh the cost of the deduction so it makes it worth it not to even pursue the deduction.

 

[jillian]

Hey look what I found

Read the Shorter Answer section....I found this by accident

Child support and Kickbacks

not a legitimate source.

nice try though. was that *your* blog?

 

[koshergrl]

What court costs? If you want to change your child support order, you don't even need an attorney, and I don't believe there's even a filing fee.

You're just spouting a bunch of excuses.

 

[sealadaigh]

Name some. And I don't know what you mean when you say "how about maternity leave" or "I had four days to set things up". No clue.

i wasn't eligible for the WIC program when i first got custody. i didn't get any kind of paternity leave.

you no what. i was a single father before anyone had even thought that waas possible when the cases were disputed. it makes me so angry what the government has deprived my son of, i really don't even waant to talk about it. they could take me out a shoot me for all i care, but the price my son had to pay is unforgiveable.

 

[sealadaigh]

What court costs? If you want to change your child support order, you don't even need an attorney, and I don't believe there's even a filing fee.

You're just spouting a bunch of excuses.

have you ever been through it. i am not spouting anything.

 

[paravani]

According to IRS tax code, the parent who pays more than 50% towards the support of the child gets the deduction. That may very well be the non-custodial parent.

Whoever gets the deduction, it's wise to work it out in advance. You can agree -- at least, if you're civil to each other -- who gets the tax deduction, and the IRS will never step in with questions unless both of you insist on claiming it.

When I was raising our daughter, my ex- sent custodial payments that were significantly smaller than the courts would have decided, but were what he felt he could comfortably pay. My new husband was her primary support, so we all agreed that he should be able to claim her as a dependent.

... but then, my ex- and I have always got along well, and managed to divorce amicably without the aid of a lawyer. (I did talk to one; but all she wanted was for us to fight about money. I wasn't into that game.)

-- Paravani

Why should the woman be allowed to use child support as an income? And get the tax deduction?

and sometime the court costs entailed to win the right to claim that tax dedustion outweigh the cost of the deduction so it makes it worth it not to even pursue the deduction.

We didn't have to worry about court costs, because we were always able to agree on things without involving courts or lawyers any more than necessary to file our paperwork.

I'm always sorry to hear that a parent and their ex- can't talk about anything together. It must make it really hard on the kids.

-- Paravani

 

[koshergrl]

Read the thread. You made a claim, the standard in the CDZ is if you make a claim and you are asked to support it, you do so.

Or not. Whether or not I have been through *it*, whatever *it* is, is not an answer to the question...WHAT safety nets are (or were) available to mothers AREN'T available to fathers. Aside from the changing tables. And please clarify the other things I asked you about as well. You aren't making a lot of sense.

As far as WIC goes, yes men can access those services, though not for themselves unless they are pregnant or breastfeeding:

"
WIC Eligibility




Who is eligible and who can apply?

• Pregnant women
• Women who are breastfeeding a baby under 1 year of age
• Women who have had a baby in the past six months
• Parents, step-parents, guardians, and foster parents of infants and children under the age of 5 can apply for their children "

WIC Eligibility

"Fathers of children under the age of 5 are encouraged to enroll their children in the WIC program. Just like any other parent or guardian, fathers can bring their children to appointments, attend nutrition classes, and receive and redeem benefits for their children. Active participation by fathers is a great help in keeping WIC children healthy. "

I suspect you are not a very good advocate for yourself or your children, if you are unable to articulate how you were abused any better than you have so far. I don't say that as an insult, I say that because I suspect you were overwhelmed by what it took to access assistance for yourself and your kids. You appear to remain overwhelmed, just talking about it.

When you ask me if I've ever been through *it* you are referring to single parenthood (I really have no way of knowing what you mean, but that seems a good guess) then absolutely yes, I have been through *it* and continue to go through *it*. In addition, I helped to raise my ex's two older children, including supporting him when he was a single dad, before we had our children. I continue to help with these older children, though he does not pay child support for the two that we share and certainly has never provided for the older boys.

So again, yes, I've been through it. I've also administered the programs that assist single parents, male and female alike, and worked as a legal assistant in a law office that specialized in custody/child support/divorce cases.

 

[Aristotle]

Here is my final argument since my videos have shown actual fathers who are responsible and get the low end of the stick.

Only reasons states put men in jail is because of deliquency due to failure to receive a kickback. Of course you won't know that because it obviously doesn't say kickback but do enough research the states get a percentage from the federal government.

Women say "he should've worn a condom" but comments like these vindicate women who have bad breakups justifying their vindictiveness in going to court. A man in jail or homeless is no good to the child because he thus becomes apart of the system and is an absentee father.

Its like you said though the system doesn't really care about the child involved, this is all about one thing.

If you had ever raised a child on your own, you would know exactly how much of that it takes to do it. People seem to think women should be able to raise children without any support. I promise you, children can't be raised without money. Poverty leads to failure in children, but I guess most of the guys on this thread are okay with keeping kids in poverty.

You fail to see our point. You constantly bring up your experiences. Look, no offense, I am not concerned about your experience, you may be the exception, not the rule.

I am concerned about the fathers who are on the ball with child support payment, and.my concern with the women who misuse that money to support habits or non-essential items. You've read the stories of men here. Nobody is telling the woman to do it alone, we are talking about accountability. The man is accountable by the state to pay. The statr doesn't matter if you don't see your kid as long as you pay.

Hey do.men go to jail for failure to see their kids? No. They go to jail for failure to pay. Society is concerned about money. The state does not regulate the primary custodian's spending habits. As you read a man's ex spent child support on crack and beer. Come on! The system needs to change. The system needs to be more balanced. It is not balanced. The videos I showed are physical proof.

I think you just don't want to agree and are just being difficult.

 

[koshergrl]

My experiences are pertinent, just as yours and borillar's and katz's and everyone else's. Particularly my experiences in the legal and human services fields are pertinent, which deal specifically with single parents and their children. My PERSONAL information has not so much been dragged out by me as by others, who insist that any criticism of fathers who don't want to pay reasonable support is a criticism of ALL fathers. It isn't. You want to dismiss the legal information that has been posted on here about the particulars of child support and custody, and how the courts approach those issues..but at the same time you expect to be taken seriously when you ignore that information, and provide nothing but unsupported opinion. You continue to carp about un-specified bias against fathers, but we have nothing but youtube vids and vague stories about friends, relatives, etc., to support them...while at the same time you dismiss the valid information that has been provided that specifically addresses exactly how child support is determined and considered by the courts, and how it plays out in single parent families.

It's not news to us that you don't care about the experiences of single mothers who are not receiving adequate child support. You've made that abundantly clear from your first post in this thread.

 

[sealadaigh]

Read the thread. You made a claim, the standard in the CDZ is if you make a claim and you are asked to support it, you do so.

Or not. Whether or not I have been through *it*, whatever *it* is, is not an answer to the question...WHAT safety nets are (or were) available to mothers AREN'T available to fathers. Aside from the changing tables. And please clarify the other things I asked you about as well. You aren't making a lot of sense.

As far as WIC goes, yes men can access those services, though not for themselves unless they are pregnant or breastfeeding:

"
WIC Eligibility




Who is eligible and who can apply?

• Pregnant women
• Women who are breastfeeding a baby under 1 year of age
• Women who have had a baby in the past six months
• Parents, step-parents, guardians, and foster parents of infants and children under the age of 5 can apply for their children "

WIC Eligibility

"Fathers of children under the age of 5 are encouraged to enroll their children in the WIC program. Just like any other parent or guardian, fathers can bring their children to appointments, attend nutrition classes, and receive and redeem benefits for their children. Active participation by fathers is a great help in keeping WIC children healthy. "

I suspect you are not a very good advocate for yourself or your children, if you are unable to articulate how you were abused any better than you have so far. I don't say that as an insult, I say that because I suspect you were overwhelmed by what it took to access assistance for yourself and your kids. You appear to remain overwhelmed, just talking about it.

When you ask me if I've ever been through *it* you are referring to single parenthood (I really have no way of knowing what you mean, but that seems a good guess) then absolutely yes, I have been through *it* and continue to go through *it*. In addition, I helped to raise my ex's two older children, including supporting him when he was a single dad, before we had our children. I continue to help with these older children, though he does not pay child support for the two that we share and certainly has never provided for the older boys.

So again, yes, I've been through it. I've also administered the programs that assist single parents, male and female alike, and worked as a legal assistant in a law office that specialized in custody/child support/divorce cases.

and again, things have changed in the past twenty-five years. what should i document.

this was before even guardian ad litum progrsms kicked in.

at the time, custody was almost always awarded to the mother.

can i document it, no i can't. and if i ccould, i wouldn't. it isn't worth it to me to relive that particular part of my life.

back then, men were held hostages for all intents and purposes.

 

[koshergrl]

So you can't relate one example of support given to women but not men. Noted.

You could relive it to the point that you could make a specious claim about it, I note. You just find it too traumatizing to relate SPECIFIC examples of support provided to moms but not dads.

 

[koshergrl]

I was raising children by myself 25 years ago as well. I know perfectly well what was available and there was nothing to my knowledge that was available only to women with children.

 

[Katzndogz]

What court costs? If you want to change your child support order, you don't even need an attorney, and I don't believe there's even a filing fee.

You're just spouting a bunch of excuses.

There is a filing fee to file the motion for modification. While you don't need an attorney since the calculation is done by computer, it is always wise to have one.

 

[Katzndogz]

My experiences are pertinent, just as yours and borillar's and katz's and everyone else's. Particularly my experiences in the legal and human services fields are pertinent, which deal specifically with single parents and their children. My PERSONAL information has not so much been dragged out by me as by others, who insist that any criticism of fathers who don't want to pay reasonable support is a criticism of ALL fathers. It isn't. You want to dismiss the legal information that has been posted on here about the particulars of child support and custody, and how the courts approach those issues..but at the same time you expect to be taken seriously when you ignore that information, and provide nothing but unsupported opinion. You continue to carp about un-specified bias against fathers, but we have nothing but youtube vids and vague stories about friends, relatives, etc., to support them...while at the same time you dismiss the valid information that has been provided that specifically addresses exactly how child support is determined and considered by the courts, and how it plays out in single parent families.

It's not news to us that you don't care about the experiences of single mothers who are not receiving adequate child support. You've made that abundantly clear from your first post in this thread.

Plenty of women aren't receiving adequate child support. The young man who has 30 children doesn't pay adequate child support to any one of them. The woman getting the largest share of child support gets $1.49 a month in child support. No child support order can exceed 50% of the man's salary. To a guy making minimum wage it's never going to be adequate child support.

Every time a man gets primary custody he gets child support from mother. Paternal custody used to be exceedingly rare and only under exceptional circumstances. It isn't rare anymore. It is uncommon, but not rare. Many times when a father that is doing well gets custody and the mother isn't working, or makes so little that it's not worth it, father doesn't even ask for child support.

 

[koshergrl]

Courts require that child support be ordered if there is a custody order.

 

[Aristotle]

Koshergrl below your name you said "Always correct"

So far you have not presented one shred of a rebuttal to my comment. You consistently put words in my mouth or grossly misinterpret my view. You fail to acknowledge the fact that there are irresponsible women. You keep using your experiences. Oh, for the record, no your experiences are not pertinent it was your fault you had a failed relationship because you had a kid by an irresponsible person. Like I said, you may be a good parent but your an exception, not the rule.

So keep on grossly misinterpreting my view. As far as my responses to you henceforth, its over. I peovided evidence for my argument videos and links. You have provided anecdotal evidence which cannot be verified so alas you again fail in your rebuttal. In the future when you debate have hard facts ready, not stories.

 

[sealadaigh]

So you can't relate one example of support given to women but not men. Noted.

You could relive it to the point that you could make a specious claim about it, I note. You just find it too traumatizing to relate SPECIFIC examples of support provided to moms but not dads.

i gave you WIC. there were also a number of non-profits, not federal programs, for housing assistance and the like that catered exclousively to women.

i stopped playing.

and yes, it was pretty traumatic if you must know. i had physicaal custody of my child since he was three. his mother left him with me. her boyfriend was a millionaire. i was paying child support, child care, his care, working, etc. i said this has got to stop so i decided to seek custody legally. the judge says "a child belongs with his mother" (she had broken up with her boyfriend at this time.) three years later, he was so messed up in his life, her grandparents were hiding him from me,, she was back with her boyfriend and who knows where. finally i found out what was going on...and i was given legal custody.

and yeah, a whole lot of other bad stuff too so it was pretty traumatic and i really don't even like to talk about it...and i stopped playing the game and accepted thaat i would have to do it myself.

the law says women should et equal pay. they don't.

the law says no discrimination because of race. it still goes on.

you can say single parents, the law can, but de facto discrimination against fathers still occurs, even today, and i was, at the time, in a state that a father seeking custody of their child would only get it about one percent of the time.

the saddest part. he joined the navy and the postcard home was now a big letter. it contained his insurance and benificiary information and on the box that said "mother" it said "no mother named." i never wanted him to say that.

gender bias doesn't only happen to women.