CDZ Charity is a failure of government - Discuss

Oddball

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The Bible teaches that charity should come from the heart, family and church. Nothing about giving your money to a Roman bureaucrat to dole it out for you.
Actually, Jesus was pretty clear... "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" Caesar's picture was on the coins. You give him his coins back when he asks for them. Render unto Washington what is Washington's, he'd say today.
You are obviously confused.

If you ever went to church and studied things like you would understand that passage was part of a larger conversation to challenge the faith of the Jewish leader to chose between God or the secular world.


Render Unto Caesar: A Most Misunderstood New Testament Passage


With one straightforward counter-question, Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God, then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate, and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed, at the very least, the coin which bears his image.

Jesus' counter-question simply invites His listeners to choose allegiances. Remarkably, He has escaped the trap through a clever rhetorical gambit; He has authoritatively refuted His opponents' hostile question by basing His answer in scripture, and yet, He never overtly answers the question originally posed to Him. No wonder that St. Matthew ends the Tribute Episode this way: "When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away."
Jesus hardly promoted the idea of "individual freedom".
You may also be confused.

Jesus was a citizen of a country that hated an oppressive government. In fact He was crucified by the Government.

If you want to use political terms He was a Libertarian.

God gave us free will. The ultimate personal freedom. It was Man that turned the freedom of free will over to oppressive government.
Jesus wasn't political. You are arguing politics. Don't infuse Jesus into that argument.
You are confused at the point I was making.

I was arguing that God gave us free will which is the ability to chose our own fate.

If we let government oppress us then it is our own fault.

Jesus told us many times to chose God over the state.

The Romans oppressed the Jews as they did most of the conquered lands.

We get that kind of oppression from government. Even in a country like the US that founded on the principle of "In God We Trust". For instance, in some places our government was even telling us recently that we couldn't even go to church and we even have a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of religion.

However, to get back to the subject of this thread. Charity should be an act of the heart, not the oppression of government.

I hate welfare, taxes and government oppression. I don't want the government taking my money by force and giving it away to the special interest groups that vote in the politicians.

However, I am a generous person. I help to support an orphanage. My wife and I go to the grocery store every month and buy food and donate it to a food bank. We spend quite a bit of our income on charity.

I want to have the ability to chose who I help. That is called Liberty. I do not want some stuipid and corrupt politician stealing my money and giving it away to the special interest groups that help to get him or her reelected.

Socialism is slavery to the state. Nobody in their right minds would support something like that.
You make the mistake in assuming that those who wish to see a fairer country is worshipping the state. You are wrong.
You are confused about this. Ii don't think you really understand what the word fairness means.

How can the oppressive government taking the money that I earned and giving it to some worthless welfare queen or Illegal alien be considered fair by any definition? Isn't that slavery? Isn't that thievery?

I had to work hard for my money. Why should the government steal it and give it to somebody else that didn't do a damn damn thing to earn it?
Nobody is taking your money to give to others. The government is just creating it out of nothing.
Inflation is a tax.
For the poor and middle class. I've argued over and over to end it.
It's a tax on everyone who has accumulated wealth.
When you get 10 million and have to pay $150,000 in tax it's not really a tax.
How much you have in the bank is irrelevant to the fact that inflation destroys the buying power of everyone.

Are you being obtuse on purpose?
You are calling me names over something I'm not even discussing or arguing. Those getting millions are doing OK with inflation creation. The rest not so much.
Which is an entirely irrelevant point to the fact that inflation destroys the buying power of everyone...All you're doing here is exposing your envy of the wealthy and sheer ignorance of how the fiat monetary system works.

IOW, you're being obtuse.
 

pknopp

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The Bible teaches that charity should come from the heart, family and church. Nothing about giving your money to a Roman bureaucrat to dole it out for you.
Actually, Jesus was pretty clear... "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" Caesar's picture was on the coins. You give him his coins back when he asks for them. Render unto Washington what is Washington's, he'd say today.
You are obviously confused.

If you ever went to church and studied things like you would understand that passage was part of a larger conversation to challenge the faith of the Jewish leader to chose between God or the secular world.


Render Unto Caesar: A Most Misunderstood New Testament Passage


With one straightforward counter-question, Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God, then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate, and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed, at the very least, the coin which bears his image.

Jesus' counter-question simply invites His listeners to choose allegiances. Remarkably, He has escaped the trap through a clever rhetorical gambit; He has authoritatively refuted His opponents' hostile question by basing His answer in scripture, and yet, He never overtly answers the question originally posed to Him. No wonder that St. Matthew ends the Tribute Episode this way: "When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away."
Jesus hardly promoted the idea of "individual freedom".
You may also be confused.

Jesus was a citizen of a country that hated an oppressive government. In fact He was crucified by the Government.

If you want to use political terms He was a Libertarian.

God gave us free will. The ultimate personal freedom. It was Man that turned the freedom of free will over to oppressive government.
Jesus wasn't political. You are arguing politics. Don't infuse Jesus into that argument.
You are confused at the point I was making.

I was arguing that God gave us free will which is the ability to chose our own fate.

If we let government oppress us then it is our own fault.

Jesus told us many times to chose God over the state.

The Romans oppressed the Jews as they did most of the conquered lands.

We get that kind of oppression from government. Even in a country like the US that founded on the principle of "In God We Trust". For instance, in some places our government was even telling us recently that we couldn't even go to church and we even have a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of religion.

However, to get back to the subject of this thread. Charity should be an act of the heart, not the oppression of government.

I hate welfare, taxes and government oppression. I don't want the government taking my money by force and giving it away to the special interest groups that vote in the politicians.

However, I am a generous person. I help to support an orphanage. My wife and I go to the grocery store every month and buy food and donate it to a food bank. We spend quite a bit of our income on charity.

I want to have the ability to chose who I help. That is called Liberty. I do not want some stuipid and corrupt politician stealing my money and giving it away to the special interest groups that help to get him or her reelected.

Socialism is slavery to the state. Nobody in their right minds would support something like that.
You make the mistake in assuming that those who wish to see a fairer country is worshipping the state. You are wrong.
You are confused about this. Ii don't think you really understand what the word fairness means.

How can the oppressive government taking the money that I earned and giving it to some worthless welfare queen or Illegal alien be considered fair by any definition? Isn't that slavery? Isn't that thievery?

I had to work hard for my money. Why should the government steal it and give it to somebody else that didn't do a damn damn thing to earn it?
Nobody is taking your money to give to others. The government is just creating it out of nothing.
Inflation is a tax.
For the poor and middle class. I've argued over and over to end it.
It's a tax on everyone who has accumulated wealth.
When you get 10 million and have to pay $150,000 in tax it's not really a tax.
How much you have in the bank is irrelevant to the fact that inflation destroys the buying power of everyone.

Are you being obtuse on purpose?
You are calling me names over something I'm not even discussing or arguing. Those getting millions are doing OK with inflation creation. The rest not so much.
Which is an entirely irrelevant point to the fact that inflation destroys the buying power of everyone...All you're doing here is exposing your envy of the wealthy and sheer ignorance of how the fiat monetary system works.

IOW, you're being obtuse.
If the government is giving you more than the rate of inflation it doesn't destroy your buying power. I'm not interested in classroom theories.
 

dblack

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They are. Without them doing that a loaf of bread is still a nickel today.
Not sure what that's supposed to mean, but if government can create wealth from nothing - why are any of us working? Why does government need tax revenue?
The illusion of capitalism. Simple greed. Should I continue?
Only if you plan to actually answer the questions. All the evasion is just embarrassing.
You asked a question and I answered it. You want some classroom answer but we do not actually practice theories.

Musk has made very little in actual profit but yet he is one of the richest men in the world.
C'mon. Surely you can understand why people would question your ridiculous claim.
 

dblack

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The Bible teaches that charity should come from the heart, family and church. Nothing about giving your money to a Roman bureaucrat to dole it out for you.
Actually, Jesus was pretty clear... "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" Caesar's picture was on the coins. You give him his coins back when he asks for them. Render unto Washington what is Washington's, he'd say today.
You are obviously confused.

If you ever went to church and studied things like you would understand that passage was part of a larger conversation to challenge the faith of the Jewish leader to chose between God or the secular world.


Render Unto Caesar: A Most Misunderstood New Testament Passage


With one straightforward counter-question, Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God, then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate, and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed, at the very least, the coin which bears his image.

Jesus' counter-question simply invites His listeners to choose allegiances. Remarkably, He has escaped the trap through a clever rhetorical gambit; He has authoritatively refuted His opponents' hostile question by basing His answer in scripture, and yet, He never overtly answers the question originally posed to Him. No wonder that St. Matthew ends the Tribute Episode this way: "When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away."
Jesus hardly promoted the idea of "individual freedom".
You may also be confused.

Jesus was a citizen of a country that hated an oppressive government. In fact He was crucified by the Government.

If you want to use political terms He was a Libertarian.

God gave us free will. The ultimate personal freedom. It was Man that turned the freedom of free will over to oppressive government.
Jesus wasn't political. You are arguing politics. Don't infuse Jesus into that argument.
You are confused at the point I was making.

I was arguing that God gave us free will which is the ability to chose our own fate.

If we let government oppress us then it is our own fault.

Jesus told us many times to chose God over the state.

The Romans oppressed the Jews as they did most of the conquered lands.

We get that kind of oppression from government. Even in a country like the US that founded on the principle of "In God We Trust". For instance, in some places our government was even telling us recently that we couldn't even go to church and we even have a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of religion.

However, to get back to the subject of this thread. Charity should be an act of the heart, not the oppression of government.

I hate welfare, taxes and government oppression. I don't want the government taking my money by force and giving it away to the special interest groups that vote in the politicians.

However, I am a generous person. I help to support an orphanage. My wife and I go to the grocery store every month and buy food and donate it to a food bank. We spend quite a bit of our income on charity.

I want to have the ability to chose who I help. That is called Liberty. I do not want some stuipid and corrupt politician stealing my money and giving it away to the special interest groups that help to get him or her reelected.

Socialism is slavery to the state. Nobody in their right minds would support something like that.
You make the mistake in assuming that those who wish to see a fairer country is worshipping the state. You are wrong.
You are confused about this. Ii don't think you really understand what the word fairness means.

How can the oppressive government taking the money that I earned and giving it to some worthless welfare queen or Illegal alien be considered fair by any definition? Isn't that slavery? Isn't that thievery?

I had to work hard for my money. Why should the government steal it and give it to somebody else that didn't do a damn damn thing to earn it?
Nobody is taking your money to give to others. The government is just creating it out of nothing.
Inflation is a tax.
For the poor and middle class. I've argued over and over to end it.
It's a tax on everyone who has accumulated wealth.
When you get 10 million and have to pay $150,000 in tax it's not really a tax.
How much you have in the bank is irrelevant to the fact that inflation destroys the buying power of everyone.

Are you being obtuse on purpose?
Sadly, I think so. It's become a popular rhetorical "strategy".
 

pknopp

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They are. Without them doing that a loaf of bread is still a nickel today.
Not sure what that's supposed to mean, but if government can create wealth from nothing - why are any of us working? Why does government need tax revenue?
The illusion of capitalism. Simple greed. Should I continue?
Only if you plan to actually answer the questions. All the evasion is just embarrassing.
You asked a question and I answered it. You want some classroom answer but we do not actually practice theories.

Musk has made very little in actual profit but yet he is one of the richest men in the world.
C'mon. Sure you're sane enough to recognize why people would question your ridiculous claim.
And yet all you can do is attack me and not my words.
 

Oddball

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The Bible teaches that charity should come from the heart, family and church. Nothing about giving your money to a Roman bureaucrat to dole it out for you.
Actually, Jesus was pretty clear... "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" Caesar's picture was on the coins. You give him his coins back when he asks for them. Render unto Washington what is Washington's, he'd say today.
You are obviously confused.

If you ever went to church and studied things like you would understand that passage was part of a larger conversation to challenge the faith of the Jewish leader to chose between God or the secular world.


Render Unto Caesar: A Most Misunderstood New Testament Passage


With one straightforward counter-question, Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God, then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate, and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed, at the very least, the coin which bears his image.

Jesus' counter-question simply invites His listeners to choose allegiances. Remarkably, He has escaped the trap through a clever rhetorical gambit; He has authoritatively refuted His opponents' hostile question by basing His answer in scripture, and yet, He never overtly answers the question originally posed to Him. No wonder that St. Matthew ends the Tribute Episode this way: "When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away."
Jesus hardly promoted the idea of "individual freedom".
You may also be confused.

Jesus was a citizen of a country that hated an oppressive government. In fact He was crucified by the Government.

If you want to use political terms He was a Libertarian.

God gave us free will. The ultimate personal freedom. It was Man that turned the freedom of free will over to oppressive government.
Jesus wasn't political. You are arguing politics. Don't infuse Jesus into that argument.
You are confused at the point I was making.

I was arguing that God gave us free will which is the ability to chose our own fate.

If we let government oppress us then it is our own fault.

Jesus told us many times to chose God over the state.

The Romans oppressed the Jews as they did most of the conquered lands.

We get that kind of oppression from government. Even in a country like the US that founded on the principle of "In God We Trust". For instance, in some places our government was even telling us recently that we couldn't even go to church and we even have a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of religion.

However, to get back to the subject of this thread. Charity should be an act of the heart, not the oppression of government.

I hate welfare, taxes and government oppression. I don't want the government taking my money by force and giving it away to the special interest groups that vote in the politicians.

However, I am a generous person. I help to support an orphanage. My wife and I go to the grocery store every month and buy food and donate it to a food bank. We spend quite a bit of our income on charity.

I want to have the ability to chose who I help. That is called Liberty. I do not want some stuipid and corrupt politician stealing my money and giving it away to the special interest groups that help to get him or her reelected.

Socialism is slavery to the state. Nobody in their right minds would support something like that.
You make the mistake in assuming that those who wish to see a fairer country is worshipping the state. You are wrong.
You are confused about this. Ii don't think you really understand what the word fairness means.

How can the oppressive government taking the money that I earned and giving it to some worthless welfare queen or Illegal alien be considered fair by any definition? Isn't that slavery? Isn't that thievery?

I had to work hard for my money. Why should the government steal it and give it to somebody else that didn't do a damn damn thing to earn it?
Nobody is taking your money to give to others. The government is just creating it out of nothing.
Inflation is a tax.
For the poor and middle class. I've argued over and over to end it.
It's a tax on everyone who has accumulated wealth.
When you get 10 million and have to pay $150,000 in tax it's not really a tax.
How much you have in the bank is irrelevant to the fact that inflation destroys the buying power of everyone.

Are you being obtuse on purpose?
You are calling me names over something I'm not even discussing or arguing. Those getting millions are doing OK with inflation creation. The rest not so much.
Which is an entirely irrelevant point to the fact that inflation destroys the buying power of everyone...All you're doing here is exposing your envy of the wealthy and sheer ignorance of how the fiat monetary system works.

IOW, you're being obtuse.
If the government is giving you more than the rate of inflation it doesn't destroy your buying power. I'm not interested in classroom theories.
OK....I've been having a battle of wits with the unarmed.....Buh-bye, nincompoop.
 

Flash

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The Bible teaches that charity should come from the heart, family and church. Nothing about giving your money to a Roman bureaucrat to dole it out for you.
Actually, Jesus was pretty clear... "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" Caesar's picture was on the coins. You give him his coins back when he asks for them. Render unto Washington what is Washington's, he'd say today.
You are obviously confused.

If you ever went to church and studied things like you would understand that passage was part of a larger conversation to challenge the faith of the Jewish leader to chose between God or the secular world.


Render Unto Caesar: A Most Misunderstood New Testament Passage


With one straightforward counter-question, Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God, then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate, and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed, at the very least, the coin which bears his image.

Jesus' counter-question simply invites His listeners to choose allegiances. Remarkably, He has escaped the trap through a clever rhetorical gambit; He has authoritatively refuted His opponents' hostile question by basing His answer in scripture, and yet, He never overtly answers the question originally posed to Him. No wonder that St. Matthew ends the Tribute Episode this way: "When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away."
Jesus hardly promoted the idea of "individual freedom".
You may also be confused.

Jesus was a citizen of a country that hated an oppressive government. In fact He was crucified by the Government.

If you want to use political terms He was a Libertarian.

God gave us free will. The ultimate personal freedom. It was Man that turned the freedom of free will over to oppressive government.
Jesus wasn't political. You are arguing politics. Don't infuse Jesus into that argument.
You are confused at the point I was making.

I was arguing that God gave us free will which is the ability to chose our own fate.

If we let government oppress us then it is our own fault.

Jesus told us many times to chose God over the state.

The Romans oppressed the Jews as they did most of the conquered lands.

We get that kind of oppression from government. Even in a country like the US that founded on the principle of "In God We Trust". For instance, in some places our government was even telling us recently that we couldn't even go to church and we even have a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of religion.

However, to get back to the subject of this thread. Charity should be an act of the heart, not the oppression of government.

I hate welfare, taxes and government oppression. I don't want the government taking my money by force and giving it away to the special interest groups that vote in the politicians.

However, I am a generous person. I help to support an orphanage. My wife and I go to the grocery store every month and buy food and donate it to a food bank. We spend quite a bit of our income on charity.

I want to have the ability to chose who I help. That is called Liberty. I do not want some stuipid and corrupt politician stealing my money and giving it away to the special interest groups that help to get him or her reelected.

Socialism is slavery to the state. Nobody in their right minds would support something like that.
You make the mistake in assuming that those who wish to see a fairer country is worshipping the state. You are wrong.
You are confused about this. Ii don't think you really understand what the word fairness means.

How can the oppressive government taking the money that I earned and giving it to some worthless welfare queen or Illegal alien be considered fair by any definition? Isn't that slavery? Isn't that thievery?

I had to work hard for my money. Why should the government steal it and give it to somebody else that didn't do a damn damn thing to earn it?
Nobody is taking your money to give to others. The government is just creating it out of nothing.

View attachment 407851
Nobody has worked for the 'wealth" the government is just creating .

One thing about Liberals. They have no more understanding of Economics than they do of History, Climate Science, Biology, Ethics or the Constitution.

I earned my money by working hard, working smart and being productive. It is despicable that the government would rob me of it and give it away to somebody else that didn't earn it.
 

dblack

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They are. Without them doing that a loaf of bread is still a nickel today.
Not sure what that's supposed to mean, but if government can create wealth from nothing - why are any of us working? Why does government need tax revenue?
The illusion of capitalism. Simple greed. Should I continue?
Only if you plan to actually answer the questions. All the evasion is just embarrassing.
You asked a question and I answered it. You want some classroom answer but we do not actually practice theories.

Musk has made very little in actual profit but yet he is one of the richest men in the world.
C'mon. Sure you're sane enough to recognize why people would question your ridiculous claim.
And yet all you can do is attack me and not my words.
More evasion. Seriously, if your opinions are based on the premise that government creates wealth from nothing, why should anyone take them seriously?
 

Oddball

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They are. Without them doing that a loaf of bread is still a nickel today.
Not sure what that's supposed to mean, but if government can create wealth from nothing - why are any of us working? Why does government need tax revenue?
The illusion of capitalism. Simple greed. Should I continue?
Only if you plan to actually answer the questions. All the evasion is just embarrassing.
You asked a question and I answered it. You want some classroom answer but we do not actually practice theories.

Musk has made very little in actual profit but yet he is one of the richest men in the world.
C'mon. Sure you're sane enough to recognize why people would question your ridiculous claim.
And yet all you can do is attack me and not my words.
Your words are platitudinous gibberish.....Which is what the ignorant have to resort to, because they have NFI what they're blabbering about.
 

pknopp

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The Bible teaches that charity should come from the heart, family and church. Nothing about giving your money to a Roman bureaucrat to dole it out for you.
Actually, Jesus was pretty clear... "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" Caesar's picture was on the coins. You give him his coins back when he asks for them. Render unto Washington what is Washington's, he'd say today.
You are obviously confused.

If you ever went to church and studied things like you would understand that passage was part of a larger conversation to challenge the faith of the Jewish leader to chose between God or the secular world.


Render Unto Caesar: A Most Misunderstood New Testament Passage


With one straightforward counter-question, Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God, then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate, and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed, at the very least, the coin which bears his image.

Jesus' counter-question simply invites His listeners to choose allegiances. Remarkably, He has escaped the trap through a clever rhetorical gambit; He has authoritatively refuted His opponents' hostile question by basing His answer in scripture, and yet, He never overtly answers the question originally posed to Him. No wonder that St. Matthew ends the Tribute Episode this way: "When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away."
Jesus hardly promoted the idea of "individual freedom".
You may also be confused.

Jesus was a citizen of a country that hated an oppressive government. In fact He was crucified by the Government.

If you want to use political terms He was a Libertarian.

God gave us free will. The ultimate personal freedom. It was Man that turned the freedom of free will over to oppressive government.
Jesus wasn't political. You are arguing politics. Don't infuse Jesus into that argument.
You are confused at the point I was making.

I was arguing that God gave us free will which is the ability to chose our own fate.

If we let government oppress us then it is our own fault.

Jesus told us many times to chose God over the state.

The Romans oppressed the Jews as they did most of the conquered lands.

We get that kind of oppression from government. Even in a country like the US that founded on the principle of "In God We Trust". For instance, in some places our government was even telling us recently that we couldn't even go to church and we even have a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of religion.

However, to get back to the subject of this thread. Charity should be an act of the heart, not the oppression of government.

I hate welfare, taxes and government oppression. I don't want the government taking my money by force and giving it away to the special interest groups that vote in the politicians.

However, I am a generous person. I help to support an orphanage. My wife and I go to the grocery store every month and buy food and donate it to a food bank. We spend quite a bit of our income on charity.

I want to have the ability to chose who I help. That is called Liberty. I do not want some stuipid and corrupt politician stealing my money and giving it away to the special interest groups that help to get him or her reelected.

Socialism is slavery to the state. Nobody in their right minds would support something like that.
You make the mistake in assuming that those who wish to see a fairer country is worshipping the state. You are wrong.
You are confused about this. Ii don't think you really understand what the word fairness means.

How can the oppressive government taking the money that I earned and giving it to some worthless welfare queen or Illegal alien be considered fair by any definition? Isn't that slavery? Isn't that thievery?

I had to work hard for my money. Why should the government steal it and give it to somebody else that didn't do a damn damn thing to earn it?
Nobody is taking your money to give to others. The government is just creating it out of nothing.
Inflation is a tax.
For the poor and middle class. I've argued over and over to end it.
It's a tax on everyone who has accumulated wealth.
When you get 10 million and have to pay $150,000 in tax it's not really a tax.
How much you have in the bank is irrelevant to the fact that inflation destroys the buying power of everyone.

Are you being obtuse on purpose?
You are calling me names over something I'm not even discussing or arguing. Those getting millions are doing OK with inflation creation. The rest not so much.
Which is an entirely irrelevant point to the fact that inflation destroys the buying power of everyone...All you're doing here is exposing your envy of the wealthy and sheer ignorance of how the fiat monetary system works.

IOW, you're being obtuse.
If the government is giving you more than the rate of inflation it doesn't destroy your buying power. I'm not interested in classroom theories.
OK....I've been having a battle of wits with the unarmed.....Buh-bye, nincompoop.
And again, attack me as opposed to address what I said.

If inflation is 5% and you get 10% from the government how has your wealth been destroyed?
 

Oddball

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The Bible teaches that charity should come from the heart, family and church. Nothing about giving your money to a Roman bureaucrat to dole it out for you.
Actually, Jesus was pretty clear... "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" Caesar's picture was on the coins. You give him his coins back when he asks for them. Render unto Washington what is Washington's, he'd say today.
You are obviously confused.

If you ever went to church and studied things like you would understand that passage was part of a larger conversation to challenge the faith of the Jewish leader to chose between God or the secular world.


Render Unto Caesar: A Most Misunderstood New Testament Passage


With one straightforward counter-question, Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God, then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate, and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed, at the very least, the coin which bears his image.

Jesus' counter-question simply invites His listeners to choose allegiances. Remarkably, He has escaped the trap through a clever rhetorical gambit; He has authoritatively refuted His opponents' hostile question by basing His answer in scripture, and yet, He never overtly answers the question originally posed to Him. No wonder that St. Matthew ends the Tribute Episode this way: "When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away."
Jesus hardly promoted the idea of "individual freedom".
You may also be confused.

Jesus was a citizen of a country that hated an oppressive government. In fact He was crucified by the Government.

If you want to use political terms He was a Libertarian.

God gave us free will. The ultimate personal freedom. It was Man that turned the freedom of free will over to oppressive government.
Jesus wasn't political. You are arguing politics. Don't infuse Jesus into that argument.
You are confused at the point I was making.

I was arguing that God gave us free will which is the ability to chose our own fate.

If we let government oppress us then it is our own fault.

Jesus told us many times to chose God over the state.

The Romans oppressed the Jews as they did most of the conquered lands.

We get that kind of oppression from government. Even in a country like the US that founded on the principle of "In God We Trust". For instance, in some places our government was even telling us recently that we couldn't even go to church and we even have a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of religion.

However, to get back to the subject of this thread. Charity should be an act of the heart, not the oppression of government.

I hate welfare, taxes and government oppression. I don't want the government taking my money by force and giving it away to the special interest groups that vote in the politicians.

However, I am a generous person. I help to support an orphanage. My wife and I go to the grocery store every month and buy food and donate it to a food bank. We spend quite a bit of our income on charity.

I want to have the ability to chose who I help. That is called Liberty. I do not want some stuipid and corrupt politician stealing my money and giving it away to the special interest groups that help to get him or her reelected.

Socialism is slavery to the state. Nobody in their right minds would support something like that.
You make the mistake in assuming that those who wish to see a fairer country is worshipping the state. You are wrong.
You are confused about this. Ii don't think you really understand what the word fairness means.

How can the oppressive government taking the money that I earned and giving it to some worthless welfare queen or Illegal alien be considered fair by any definition? Isn't that slavery? Isn't that thievery?

I had to work hard for my money. Why should the government steal it and give it to somebody else that didn't do a damn damn thing to earn it?
Nobody is taking your money to give to others. The government is just creating it out of nothing.

View attachment 407851
Nobody has worked for the 'wealth" the government is just creating .

One thing about Liberals. They have no more understanding of Economics than they do of History, Climate Science, Biology, Ethics or the Constitution.

I earned my money by working hard, working smart and being productive. It is despicable that the government would rob me of it and give it away to somebody else that didn't earn it.
HayekSocialists.jpg
 

pknopp

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They are. Without them doing that a loaf of bread is still a nickel today.
Not sure what that's supposed to mean, but if government can create wealth from nothing - why are any of us working? Why does government need tax revenue?
The illusion of capitalism. Simple greed. Should I continue?
Only if you plan to actually answer the questions. All the evasion is just embarrassing.
You asked a question and I answered it. You want some classroom answer but we do not actually practice theories.

Musk has made very little in actual profit but yet he is one of the richest men in the world.
C'mon. Sure you're sane enough to recognize why people would question your ridiculous claim.
And yet all you can do is attack me and not my words.
More evasion. Seriously, if your opinions are based on the premise that government creates wealth from nothing, why should anyone take them seriously?
Dont but the facts are you know I am right.
 

Oddball

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The Bible teaches that charity should come from the heart, family and church. Nothing about giving your money to a Roman bureaucrat to dole it out for you.
Actually, Jesus was pretty clear... "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" Caesar's picture was on the coins. You give him his coins back when he asks for them. Render unto Washington what is Washington's, he'd say today.
You are obviously confused.

If you ever went to church and studied things like you would understand that passage was part of a larger conversation to challenge the faith of the Jewish leader to chose between God or the secular world.


Render Unto Caesar: A Most Misunderstood New Testament Passage


With one straightforward counter-question, Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God, then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate, and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed, at the very least, the coin which bears his image.

Jesus' counter-question simply invites His listeners to choose allegiances. Remarkably, He has escaped the trap through a clever rhetorical gambit; He has authoritatively refuted His opponents' hostile question by basing His answer in scripture, and yet, He never overtly answers the question originally posed to Him. No wonder that St. Matthew ends the Tribute Episode this way: "When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away."
Jesus hardly promoted the idea of "individual freedom".
You may also be confused.

Jesus was a citizen of a country that hated an oppressive government. In fact He was crucified by the Government.

If you want to use political terms He was a Libertarian.

God gave us free will. The ultimate personal freedom. It was Man that turned the freedom of free will over to oppressive government.
Jesus wasn't political. You are arguing politics. Don't infuse Jesus into that argument.
You are confused at the point I was making.

I was arguing that God gave us free will which is the ability to chose our own fate.

If we let government oppress us then it is our own fault.

Jesus told us many times to chose God over the state.

The Romans oppressed the Jews as they did most of the conquered lands.

We get that kind of oppression from government. Even in a country like the US that founded on the principle of "In God We Trust". For instance, in some places our government was even telling us recently that we couldn't even go to church and we even have a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of religion.

However, to get back to the subject of this thread. Charity should be an act of the heart, not the oppression of government.

I hate welfare, taxes and government oppression. I don't want the government taking my money by force and giving it away to the special interest groups that vote in the politicians.

However, I am a generous person. I help to support an orphanage. My wife and I go to the grocery store every month and buy food and donate it to a food bank. We spend quite a bit of our income on charity.

I want to have the ability to chose who I help. That is called Liberty. I do not want some stuipid and corrupt politician stealing my money and giving it away to the special interest groups that help to get him or her reelected.

Socialism is slavery to the state. Nobody in their right minds would support something like that.
You make the mistake in assuming that those who wish to see a fairer country is worshipping the state. You are wrong.
You are confused about this. Ii don't think you really understand what the word fairness means.

How can the oppressive government taking the money that I earned and giving it to some worthless welfare queen or Illegal alien be considered fair by any definition? Isn't that slavery? Isn't that thievery?

I had to work hard for my money. Why should the government steal it and give it to somebody else that didn't do a damn damn thing to earn it?
Nobody is taking your money to give to others. The government is just creating it out of nothing.
Inflation is a tax.
For the poor and middle class. I've argued over and over to end it.
It's a tax on everyone who has accumulated wealth.
When you get 10 million and have to pay $150,000 in tax it's not really a tax.
How much you have in the bank is irrelevant to the fact that inflation destroys the buying power of everyone.

Are you being obtuse on purpose?
You are calling me names over something I'm not even discussing or arguing. Those getting millions are doing OK with inflation creation. The rest not so much.
Which is an entirely irrelevant point to the fact that inflation destroys the buying power of everyone...All you're doing here is exposing your envy of the wealthy and sheer ignorance of how the fiat monetary system works.

IOW, you're being obtuse.
If the government is giving you more than the rate of inflation it doesn't destroy your buying power. I'm not interested in classroom theories.
OK....I've been having a battle of wits with the unarmed.....Buh-bye, nincompoop.
And again, attack me as opposed to address what I said.

If inflation is 5% and you get 10% from the government how has your wealth been destroyed?
What you said is ignorant blather....Just STFU.
 

pknopp

Gold Member
Joined
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Messages
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The Bible teaches that charity should come from the heart, family and church. Nothing about giving your money to a Roman bureaucrat to dole it out for you.
Actually, Jesus was pretty clear... "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" Caesar's picture was on the coins. You give him his coins back when he asks for them. Render unto Washington what is Washington's, he'd say today.
You are obviously confused.

If you ever went to church and studied things like you would understand that passage was part of a larger conversation to challenge the faith of the Jewish leader to chose between God or the secular world.


Render Unto Caesar: A Most Misunderstood New Testament Passage


With one straightforward counter-question, Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God, then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate, and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed, at the very least, the coin which bears his image.

Jesus' counter-question simply invites His listeners to choose allegiances. Remarkably, He has escaped the trap through a clever rhetorical gambit; He has authoritatively refuted His opponents' hostile question by basing His answer in scripture, and yet, He never overtly answers the question originally posed to Him. No wonder that St. Matthew ends the Tribute Episode this way: "When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away."
Jesus hardly promoted the idea of "individual freedom".
You may also be confused.

Jesus was a citizen of a country that hated an oppressive government. In fact He was crucified by the Government.

If you want to use political terms He was a Libertarian.

God gave us free will. The ultimate personal freedom. It was Man that turned the freedom of free will over to oppressive government.
Jesus wasn't political. You are arguing politics. Don't infuse Jesus into that argument.
You are confused at the point I was making.

I was arguing that God gave us free will which is the ability to chose our own fate.

If we let government oppress us then it is our own fault.

Jesus told us many times to chose God over the state.

The Romans oppressed the Jews as they did most of the conquered lands.

We get that kind of oppression from government. Even in a country like the US that founded on the principle of "In God We Trust". For instance, in some places our government was even telling us recently that we couldn't even go to church and we even have a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of religion.

However, to get back to the subject of this thread. Charity should be an act of the heart, not the oppression of government.

I hate welfare, taxes and government oppression. I don't want the government taking my money by force and giving it away to the special interest groups that vote in the politicians.

However, I am a generous person. I help to support an orphanage. My wife and I go to the grocery store every month and buy food and donate it to a food bank. We spend quite a bit of our income on charity.

I want to have the ability to chose who I help. That is called Liberty. I do not want some stuipid and corrupt politician stealing my money and giving it away to the special interest groups that help to get him or her reelected.

Socialism is slavery to the state. Nobody in their right minds would support something like that.
You make the mistake in assuming that those who wish to see a fairer country is worshipping the state. You are wrong.
You are confused about this. Ii don't think you really understand what the word fairness means.

How can the oppressive government taking the money that I earned and giving it to some worthless welfare queen or Illegal alien be considered fair by any definition? Isn't that slavery? Isn't that thievery?

I had to work hard for my money. Why should the government steal it and give it to somebody else that didn't do a damn damn thing to earn it?
Nobody is taking your money to give to others. The government is just creating it out of nothing.

View attachment 407851
Nobody has worked for the 'wealth" the government is just creating .

One thing about Liberals. They have no more understanding of Economics than they do of History, Climate Science, Biology, Ethics or the Constitution.

I earned my money by working hard, working smart and being productive. It is despicable that the government would rob me of it and give it away to somebody else that didn't earn it.
View attachment 407857
You are the one arguing for Socialism. Lets end the constant pumping by the Fed? How about it?

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

Ben Bernanke - The Father of Extreme US Socialism
 

dblack

Platinum Member
Joined
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Messages
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They are. Without them doing that a loaf of bread is still a nickel today.
Not sure what that's supposed to mean, but if government can create wealth from nothing - why are any of us working? Why does government need tax revenue?
The illusion of capitalism. Simple greed. Should I continue?
Only if you plan to actually answer the questions. All the evasion is just embarrassing.
You asked a question and I answered it. You want some classroom answer but we do not actually practice theories.

Musk has made very little in actual profit but yet he is one of the richest men in the world.
C'mon. Sure you're sane enough to recognize why people would question your ridiculous claim.
And yet all you can do is attack me and not my words.
More evasion. Seriously, if your opinions are based on the premise that government creates wealth from nothing, why should anyone take them seriously?
Dont but the facts are you know I am right.
I honestly can't imagine any way you could be right. If you claim that government creates wealth from nothing - those are "your words" - well, that's not "right". You're just standing on a soapbox, masturbating in public.
 

pknopp

Gold Member
Joined
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Messages
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Reaction score
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Points
215
The Bible teaches that charity should come from the heart, family and church. Nothing about giving your money to a Roman bureaucrat to dole it out for you.
Actually, Jesus was pretty clear... "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" Caesar's picture was on the coins. You give him his coins back when he asks for them. Render unto Washington what is Washington's, he'd say today.
You are obviously confused.

If you ever went to church and studied things like you would understand that passage was part of a larger conversation to challenge the faith of the Jewish leader to chose between God or the secular world.


Render Unto Caesar: A Most Misunderstood New Testament Passage


With one straightforward counter-question, Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God, then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate, and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed, at the very least, the coin which bears his image.

Jesus' counter-question simply invites His listeners to choose allegiances. Remarkably, He has escaped the trap through a clever rhetorical gambit; He has authoritatively refuted His opponents' hostile question by basing His answer in scripture, and yet, He never overtly answers the question originally posed to Him. No wonder that St. Matthew ends the Tribute Episode this way: "When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away."
Jesus hardly promoted the idea of "individual freedom".
You may also be confused.

Jesus was a citizen of a country that hated an oppressive government. In fact He was crucified by the Government.

If you want to use political terms He was a Libertarian.

God gave us free will. The ultimate personal freedom. It was Man that turned the freedom of free will over to oppressive government.
Jesus wasn't political. You are arguing politics. Don't infuse Jesus into that argument.
You are confused at the point I was making.

I was arguing that God gave us free will which is the ability to chose our own fate.

If we let government oppress us then it is our own fault.

Jesus told us many times to chose God over the state.

The Romans oppressed the Jews as they did most of the conquered lands.

We get that kind of oppression from government. Even in a country like the US that founded on the principle of "In God We Trust". For instance, in some places our government was even telling us recently that we couldn't even go to church and we even have a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of religion.

However, to get back to the subject of this thread. Charity should be an act of the heart, not the oppression of government.

I hate welfare, taxes and government oppression. I don't want the government taking my money by force and giving it away to the special interest groups that vote in the politicians.

However, I am a generous person. I help to support an orphanage. My wife and I go to the grocery store every month and buy food and donate it to a food bank. We spend quite a bit of our income on charity.

I want to have the ability to chose who I help. That is called Liberty. I do not want some stuipid and corrupt politician stealing my money and giving it away to the special interest groups that help to get him or her reelected.

Socialism is slavery to the state. Nobody in their right minds would support something like that.
You make the mistake in assuming that those who wish to see a fairer country is worshipping the state. You are wrong.
You are confused about this. Ii don't think you really understand what the word fairness means.

How can the oppressive government taking the money that I earned and giving it to some worthless welfare queen or Illegal alien be considered fair by any definition? Isn't that slavery? Isn't that thievery?

I had to work hard for my money. Why should the government steal it and give it to somebody else that didn't do a damn damn thing to earn it?
Nobody is taking your money to give to others. The government is just creating it out of nothing.

View attachment 407851
Nobody has worked for the 'wealth" the government is just creating .

One thing about Liberals. They have no more understanding of Economics than they do of History, Climate Science, Biology, Ethics or the Constitution.

I earned my money by working hard, working smart and being productive. It is despicable that the government would rob me of it and give it away to somebody else that didn't earn it.
Ben Bernanke - The Father of Extreme US Socialism
 

pknopp

Gold Member
Joined
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Messages
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They are. Without them doing that a loaf of bread is still a nickel today.
Not sure what that's supposed to mean, but if government can create wealth from nothing - why are any of us working? Why does government need tax revenue?
The illusion of capitalism. Simple greed. Should I continue?
Only if you plan to actually answer the questions. All the evasion is just embarrassing.
You asked a question and I answered it. You want some classroom answer but we do not actually practice theories.

Musk has made very little in actual profit but yet he is one of the richest men in the world.
C'mon. Sure you're sane enough to recognize why people would question your ridiculous claim.
And yet all you can do is attack me and not my words.
More evasion. Seriously, if your opinions are based on the premise that government creates wealth from nothing, why should anyone take them seriously?
Ben Bernanke - The Father of Extreme US Socialism
 

pknopp

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
20,904
Reaction score
3,867
Points
215
They are. Without them doing that a loaf of bread is still a nickel today.
Not sure what that's supposed to mean, but if government can create wealth from nothing - why are any of us working? Why does government need tax revenue?
The illusion of capitalism. Simple greed. Should I continue?
Only if you plan to actually answer the questions. All the evasion is just embarrassing.
You asked a question and I answered it. You want some classroom answer but we do not actually practice theories.

Musk has made very little in actual profit but yet he is one of the richest men in the world.
C'mon. Sure you're sane enough to recognize why people would question your ridiculous claim.
And yet all you can do is attack me and not my words.
More evasion. Seriously, if your opinions are based on the premise that government creates wealth from nothing, why should anyone take them seriously?
Dont but the facts are you know I am right.
I honestly can't imagine any way you could be right. If you claim that government creates wealth from nothing - those are "your words" - well, that's not "right". You're just standing on a soapbox, masturbating in public.
Ben Bernanke - The Father of Extreme US Socialism
 

Oddball

Unobtanium Member
Joined
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Messages
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Drinking wine, eating cheese, catching rays
I honestly can't imagine any way you could be right. If you claim that government creates wealth from nothing - those are "your words" - well, that's not "right". You're just standing on a soapbox, masturbating in public.
Then he claims that the gubmint is just "giving" the likes of Musk and Bezos this "wealth", with absolutely no explanation of how that works.

Like I said....A battle of wits with the unarmed.
 

there4eyeM

unlicensed metaphysician
Joined
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Messages
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The Bible teaches that charity should come from the heart, family and church. Nothing about giving your money to a Roman bureaucrat to dole it out for you.
Actually, Jesus was pretty clear... "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" Caesar's picture was on the coins. You give him his coins back when he asks for them. Render unto Washington what is Washington's, he'd say today.
You are obviously confused.

If you ever went to church and studied things like you would understand that passage was part of a larger conversation to challenge the faith of the Jewish leader to chose between God or the secular world.


Render Unto Caesar: A Most Misunderstood New Testament Passage


With one straightforward counter-question, Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God, then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate, and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed, at the very least, the coin which bears his image.

Jesus' counter-question simply invites His listeners to choose allegiances. Remarkably, He has escaped the trap through a clever rhetorical gambit; He has authoritatively refuted His opponents' hostile question by basing His answer in scripture, and yet, He never overtly answers the question originally posed to Him. No wonder that St. Matthew ends the Tribute Episode this way: "When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away."
Jesus hardly promoted the idea of "individual freedom".
You may also be confused.

Jesus was a citizen of a country that hated an oppressive government. In fact He was crucified by the Government.

If you want to use political terms He was a Libertarian.

God gave us free will. The ultimate personal freedom. It was Man that turned the freedom of free will over to oppressive government.
Jesus wasn't political. You are arguing politics. Don't infuse Jesus into that argument.
You are confused at the point I was making.

I was arguing that God gave us free will which is the ability to chose our own fate.

If we let government oppress us then it is our own fault.

Jesus told us many times to chose God over the state.

The Romans oppressed the Jews as they did most of the conquered lands.

We get that kind of oppression from government. Even in a country like the US that founded on the principle of "In God We Trust". For instance, in some places our government was even telling us recently that we couldn't even go to church and we even have a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of religion.

However, to get back to the subject of this thread. Charity should be an act of the heart, not the oppression of government.

I hate welfare, taxes and government oppression. I don't want the government taking my money by force and giving it away to the special interest groups that vote in the politicians.

However, I am a generous person. I help to support an orphanage. My wife and I go to the grocery store every month and buy food and donate it to a food bank. We spend quite a bit of our income on charity.

I want to have the ability to chose who I help. That is called Liberty. I do not want some stuipid and corrupt politician stealing my money and giving it away to the special interest groups that help to get him or her reelected.

Socialism is slavery to the state. Nobody in their right minds would support something like that.
You make the mistake in assuming that those who wish to see a fairer country is worshipping the state. You are wrong.
You are confused about this. Ii don't think you really understand what the word fairness means.

How can the oppressive government taking the money that I earned and giving it to some worthless welfare queen or Illegal alien be considered fair by any definition? Isn't that slavery? Isn't that thievery?

I had to work hard for my money. Why should the government steal it and give it to somebody else that didn't do a damn damn thing to earn it?
Nobody is taking your money to give to others. The government is just creating it out of nothing.

View attachment 407851
Nobody has worked for the 'wealth" the government is just creating .

One thing about Liberals. They have no more understanding of Economics than they do of History, Climate Science, Biology, Ethics or the Constitution.

I earned my money by working hard, working smart and being productive. It is despicable that the government would rob me of it and give it away to somebody else that didn't earn it.
View attachment 407857
If economists understood economics, they would be psychologists.
 

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