Censorship as a weapon

[airplanemechanic]

Politically motivated censorship is one of the big things that defines our current political landscape, so it needs to be talked about. Politically motivated censorship is the ugliest type of censorship, and this is the kind of censorship that poisons our community here at USMB, it poisons our governments and corporations, and it corrupts our media.

Politically motivated censorship is absolutely the type of censorship that corrupts political discussion boards. We don't see it on gardening or engineering discussion boards, but most political discussion boards are dominated by this political weapon. Politically motivated censorship is an ugly form of cheating and corruption that is compounded by even more cheating and corruption that is used to cover up what it is. If you are on a political discussion site, you can be assured that whatever censorship you are seeing, it is ABSOLUTELY politically motivated corruption.

I hate hate hate to act this way because I agree with a lot of what you say. The problem lies in the fact that this is a private forum. It's a privately owned website that ALLOWS you to use it. "Censorship" can't happen in a private forum. Like, you don't have the right to come into my business and start yelling stupid shit. I have a right to remove you or tell you to shut up. Doing so is not "censoring" you. Being "censored" is only possible in a public place by gov't. That's against the law. But as long as the domain is privately owned, you can be "censored" as much as the owner wants you to be.

If you don't like it, leave.

 

[flacaltenn]

I've seen mods conflate "general" discussions of moderation with discussing "specific" moderator actions like the site rules forbid, but the two types of discussions are very different.

THere's ZERO conflation here. We prohibit discussion of "SPECIFIC moderator actions" in open threads to prevent POTENTIAL EMBARASSMENT to members if moderators have to respond in the open and tell the coliseum guests watching the REAL REASON for a specific action. That's WHY SPECIFIC actions are to be discussed in PM ONLY. It's for the PRIVACY of that member so we dont have to PUBLICALLY CORRECT THEM about SPECIFIC warnings, deletions, moves and thread bans.

IN GENERAL discussion of what you dont like about USMB moderation is FINE. Which is witnessed by the couple rant threads a day YOU TOSS up here in Announcements being discussed.

 

[flacaltenn]

Slade3200 reminded me of another way that politically motivated censorship is used as a weapon, in the thread that he was trying to derail about how usmb would look without all the politically motivated censorship. Conflating politically motivated censorship with site rules. This is a fallacy. Alleging that rules were broken in order to dishonestly justify censorship is a method of using politically motivated censorship as a weapon. This is probably THE most common type of politically motivated censorship that I have seen in all the different political board sites that I post in.

Is your political bias ANARCHY? Do you not understand the simple USMB rules?

Tell us -- under WHAT CONDITIONS can a post be deleted at USMB? It's a relatively short list. And I'll make it easier - let's say ONLY in Zone 2 forums. I KNOW you have an issue with USMB offering 3 DIFFERENT LEVELS of moderation to choose from.

And tell us HOW you'd like those rules to change.

 

[EvMetro]

I hate hate hate to act this way because I agree with a lot of what you say. The problem lies, in the fact that this is a private forum. It's a privately owned website that ALLOWS you to use it. "Censorship" can't happen in a private forum.

This is a HUGE fallacy, and here's why:

Let's first be clear on what censorship is, here is how Wikipedia defines censorship:

"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information. This may be done on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient". Censorship can be conducted by governments, private institutions and other controlling bodies."

Censorship is censorship, regardless of who does it. Regardless of public or private. Censorship absolutely DOES happen on political boards.

Like, you don't have the right to come into my business and start yelling stupid shit. I have a right to remove you or tell you to shut up. Doing so is not "censoring" you. Being "censored" is only possible in a public place by gov't.

Fallacy. Censorship is censorship, regardless of who does it or why.

That's against the law. But as long as the domain is privately owned, you can be "censored" as much as the owner wants you to be.

If you don't like it, leave.

Straight from USMB rules:

"All members and staff have the right to their own ideas, beliefs and faiths. Members have the RIGHT to constructively express these on USMessageBoard.com with equal respect and consideration."

 

[EvMetro]

Ironically, censorship has already occurred in this NON ZONE 1 thread.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Ironically, censorship has already occurred in this NON ZONE 1 thread.

Ayep.

Too bad these guys have to beg for money to stay open. Seems whorish.

 

[airplanemechanic]

This is a HUGE fallacy, and here's why:

Let's first be clear on what censorship is, here is how Wikipedia defines censorship:

"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information. This may be done on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient". Censorship can be conducted by governments, private institutions and other controlling bodies."

Censorship is censorship, regardless of who does it. Regardless of public or private. Censorship absolutely DOES happen on political boards.




Fallacy. Censorship is censorship, regardless of who does it or why.

Straight from USMB rules:

"All members and staff have the right to their own ideas, beliefs and faiths. Members have the RIGHT to constructively express these on USMessageBoard.com with equal respect and consideration."

Censorship is not censorship in a private setting. To quote your reply:

"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information". Good, doesn't mean its illegal or wrong. Just means someone is stopping you from spewing forth your crap, if they don't want to hear it.

The keywords being PUBLIC COMMUNICATION. You have no right to free speech on private land that is not yours. So the entire argument is moot. You could argue that the first amendment bans "censorship." The problem is, the first amendment has nothing to do with speech on private land or in private venues.

THE ARGUMENT IS MOOT. It's also ok to be censored. Do you think you have a right to stand up at a wedding and interrupt the ceremony? Nope, and anyone who stops you is not censoring you, they are stopping you from disturbing the peace in a private venue.

 

[dblack]

When you see politically motivated censorship, you are seeing who has the weaker hand.

Agreed. But how do you figure it's "cheating"? And what do you think should be done about it?

 

[EvMetro]

Is your political bias ANARCHY? Do you not understand the simple USMB rules?

Tell us -- under WHAT CONDITIONS can a post be deleted at USMB? It's a relatively short list. And I'll make it easier - let's say ONLY in Zone 2 forums. I KNOW you have an issue with USMB offering 3 DIFFERENT LEVELS of moderation to choose from.

And tell us HOW you'd like those rules to change.

Stop conflating politically motivated censorship with enforcing da rules. This is the oldest cheat in the book.

 

[EvMetro]

THere's ZERO conflation here. We prohibit discussion of "SPECIFIC moderator actions" in open threads to prevent POTENTIAL EMBARASSMENT to members if moderators have to respond in the open and tell the coliseum guests watching the REAL REASON for a specific action. That's WHY SPECIFIC actions are to be discussed in PM ONLY. It's for the PRIVACY of that member so we dont have to PUBLICALLY CORRECT THEM about SPECIFIC warnings, deletions, moves and thread bans.

IN GENERAL discussion of what you dont like about USMB moderation is FINE. Which is witnessed by the couple rant threads a day YOU TOSS up here in Announcements being discussed.

This post is the meat and potatoes of politically motivated censorship. The use of black all caps show that while you appear to be posting as a regular member who is relying upon the merits of his posts, you really have your hand on your badge. You appear to be establishing that if I don't go along with your "rules" euphemism, I will be seeing your wrath of your administrative authority. Are you a mod here, or are you a regular member posting in black? Are you attempting to use administrative muscle to win what you can't slap down with superior logic? If I can't tell what role you are playing, then you are using politically motivated censorship to intimidate me.

 

[EvMetro]

Censorship is not censorship in a private setting.

Censorship is censorship, regardless of private or public setting, legal or illegal, right or wrong. I think you may be conflating censorship with the 1st ammendment rights.

BTW, check this quote out. It's directly from the USMB site rules:

"All members and staff have the right to their own ideas, beliefs and faiths. Members have the RIGHT to constructively express these on USMessageBoard.com with equal respect and consideration."

 

[EvMetro]

Agreed. But how do you figure it's "cheating"? And what do you think should be done about it?

Politically motivated censorship is cheating because it is being used to win a weaker hand using deception, corruption, and insidious tactics. Nobody uses politically motivated censorship when they are already holding the winning hand.

 

[dblack]

Politically motivated censorship is cheating because it is being used to win a weaker hand using deception, corruption, and insidious tactics. Nobody uses politically motivated censorship when they are already holding the winning hand.

What should be done about it?

 

[EvMetro]

What should be done about it?

We need to be loudmouths about censorship. Shine a big light into this dark place. Call it when you see it. I'm a model member here as far as following site rules goes, but I am also the most censored member here. This is because I am a loudmouth about politically motivated censorship in a community that is poisoned with it, not because I break rules.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Censorship is censorship, regardless of private or public setting, legal or illegal, right or wrong. I think you may be conflating censorship with the 1st ammendment rights.

BTW, check this quote out. It's directly from the USMB site rules:

"All members and staff have the right to their own ideas, beliefs and faiths. Members have the RIGHT to constructively express these on USMessageBoard.com with equal respect and consideration."

Constructively.

It's up to the site owner what that means.

Your point is moot.

 

[EvMetro]

ALMOST to the point where maybe mod staff should give you a moderation free week at USMB so everyone can see what happens to the board in less than 72 hours.

You have a "rules" and organizational policy issue. Not a moderation issue. If there are RULES you dont agree with, that would be a more productive discussion. We ARE a "discussion board" and will remain so, because the OLDEST form of "social media" WERE message boards. And they ARE still relevant -- or at least USMB moderation believes that.

Cant FIND moderators without "political opinions". Cant choose members according to political opinions and dont need to do either of those things. WHY?????????

Because the rules and policies are so SIMPLE, and transparent that we have loyal members that have stuck with us for over a decade. WHY??????

Because we (mod staff) are not shadowy algorithms. The simple ass rules are CLEARLY spelled out for each zone and forum. And we offer the BROADEST CHOICE of moderation levels on USMB (to my knowledge) than ANY OTHER social media site.

So get some skin in the game. WHAT POSTS SHOULD BE DELETED? What forums are "LESSER" than others? What CHANGES to the rules would you like to make?

Nobody loves and agrees with site rules more than me. I have no problem with those. My conflict is with seeing them used to justify politically motivated censorship.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Dude this is basically a dupe thread of one you created in April of 2021:

Condemnation of censorship

Each time I post a thread about censorship, I learn more about how relevant it is to our current political landscape. My latest observation is that I have not seen any lefties condemn censorship. Every lefty who has ever replied to any of my censorship threads here has only defended...

www.usmessageboard.com

Stop making dupe threads bitching out being censored on a private forum and maybe you won't be censored.

 

[dblack]

As long as we respect the rights of business owners, of anyone, to edit their websites as they please, I think complaining about censorship is valid and, generally, a good thing. Especially on a website that claims it's a forum for the open exchange of ideas.

 

[EvMetro]

Dude this is basically a dupe thread of one you created in April of 2021:

Condemnation of censorship

Each time I post a thread about censorship, I learn more about how relevant it is to our current political landscape. My latest observation is that I have not seen any lefties condemn censorship. Every lefty who has ever replied to any of my censorship threads here has only defended...

www.usmessageboard.com

Stop making dupe threads bitching out being censored on a private forum and maybe you won't be censored.

Your mission here is to support and defend censorship, that's it. That's all lefties do when they see a thread about censorship. You cannot post anything that demonstrates that you read and understood the opening post of the thread you are posting in, and you have no interest in discussing the thread topic.

 

[EvMetro]

As long as we respect the rights of business owners, of anyone, to edit their websites as they please, I think complaining about censorship is valid and, generally, a good thing. Especially on a website that claims it's a forum for the open exchange of ideas.

I certainly don't know who the site owner is, and I don't know if he has any idea what goes on here.

As per the usmb site rules:

All members and staff have the right to their own ideas, beliefs and faiths. Members have the RIGHT to constructively express these on USMessageBoard.com with equal respect and consideration.