Zone1 Catholics (real ones) do NOT go against Scripture or add to it. It's a lie.

[buttercup]

Catholic teaching is that when anyone dies, they are in the hands of a merciful and loving God.

Catholicism teaches the Way of Salvation as passed onto us by Christ and the Apostles. We are taught this Way of Salvation (living in the Kingdom) is an eternal way that extends beyond death. Catholics begin Kingdom living and the Way of Salvation today in this life--no waiting for death for entry into it. The Catholic Catechism is clear that it is her business the proclaim the good news and assist people in this life--it is not for any Church or any human to decide who enters heaven, as that judgment is for God alone--and that God is merciful and loving.

Please speak in plain English. All of that is very vague, very open to interpretation, and it doesn't answer my question.

I didn't ask who passed it down or when it begins. I know that eternal life begins here in this life, not when when we die. That wasn't the question. I asked you to tell us in your own words how one becomes a Christian / child of God who will go to heaven when they die.

Let me put it this way. If you were talking to an atheist who knew nothing about Christianity, but who was interested in becoming a Christian.... and asked you the question: "How do I become a Christian who will be with God in heaven when I die?" - what would you say to him?

In very simple, clear terms. In a concise way.

 

[Meriweather]

"How do I become a Christian who will be with God in heaven when I die?" - what would you say to him?

First, I would ask him why he wants to be with God in heaven when he dies. What's wrong with being with God here on earth while he is living? This all begins with putting God first: Knowing, loving, and serving him.

 

[buttercup]

First, I would ask him why he wants to be with God in heaven when he dies. What's wrong with being with God here on earth while he is living? This all begins with putting God first: Knowing, loving, and serving him.

Sigh. This is beginning to be like pulling teeth. Again, no one is saying that eternal life begins only in heaven. That is not my view or the view of any Christian I know. OF COURSE once we come to God we begin our life with Him here on earth. But that's not what I asked.

You still didn't really answer the question. Unless the last sentence was your answer?

So your answer to that atheist who asked you how to become a Christian would be: "Know, love and serve God"?

I'm sorry if I'm putting you on the spot. But I genuinely would like to know your view on salvation, for the sake of clarity on this thread.

 

[Meriweather]

So your answer to that atheist who asked you how to become a Christian would be: "Know, love and serve God"?

I'm sorry if I'm putting you on the spot. But I genuinely would like to know your view on salvation, for the sake of clarity on this thread.

My view on salvation is simple. The entire world is redeemed and the Way of salvation is open to all. The Kingdom is within everyone's reach. I am not being put on the spot. My answer to someone who wants to become Christian is first to listen. Why is he interested in becoming Christian? What does he expect? What does he hope to gain? In what ways is he interested in contributing to this life and to God's kingdom? I'd want to know why he thinks he wouldn't be with God when he passes on. What has stopped him from becoming a Christian before now? What is prompting him now? What does he know about God, about Jesus? What are his reservations about God, about Jesus? Would he like to come to Mass with me? To Bible study? Would he like me to join him or to be his sponsor in learning the Catholic faith?

 

[buttercup]

My view on salvation is simple. The entire world is redeemed

So you think that every single person in the world is saved and going to heaven when they die? Even atheists, anti-christians, satanists, literally everyone in the world is automatically redeemed no matter what? I don't want to put words in your mouth, hence the question marks.

and the Way of salvation is open to all. The Kingdom is within everyone's reach.

Of course the way of salvation is open to all! Who ever denied that? Of course anyone can come to Christ. You keep saying things that no one has denied, but are not an answer to the question asked. That's why I specifically asked you to state your view of salvation in a concise way, in few words. No need to add on all sorts of other things that no one has argued otherwise.

I am not being put on the spot. My answer to someone who wants to become Christian is first to listen. Why is he interested in becoming Christian? What does he expect? What does he hope to gain? In what ways is he interested in contributing to this life and to God's kingdom? I'd want to know why he thinks he wouldn't be with God when he passes on. What has stopped him from becoming a Christian before now? What is prompting him now? What does he know about God, about Jesus? What are his reservations about God, about Jesus?

Sigh. Wow. I'm kind of in disbelief that you are making this so much more difficult than it has to be.

Ok, forget the scenario I gave you before, of what you would say to that atheist. Let me try this a different way.

In the fewest words possible, please share in your own words how one attains eternal life with God. Do you think it's automatic, and everyone in the world already is already saved and heaven-bound, even those who don't believe or follow God?

Again, please don't add on other stuff that no one has argued. Please just answer that question in a very clear, concise way.

Would he like to come to Mass with me? To Bible study? Would he like me to join him or to be his sponsor in learning the Catholic faith?

Based on what you just said ^ I'm going to ask this a different way.

Let's say that there was a car accident, and you happened to see the whole thing, and you pulled over and found someone lying on the pavement, about to die at any moment. You KNOW this person is going to die. And the person says to you "I've been a nonbeliever my whole life but now I want to know, what do I have to do to be saved and be with God in heaven?"

No time for Mass. No time for Bible studies. No time for anything. And you have to say it in a very clear simple way that ANYONE would understand. In few words.

What would you say to that person asking you how to get saved?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

First, I would ask him why he wants to be with God in heaven when he dies

Not all Christians believe heaven is the reward of the saved. I don't.

 

[Meriweather]

So you think that every single person in the world is saved and going to heaven when they die? Even atheists, anti-christians, satanists, literally everyone in the world is redeemed? I don't want to put words in your mouth, hence the question marks.

What does redemption on earth have to do with heaven? Redemption frees us from the bondage of sin in this world. Heavenly life in God had no need of redemption. Nor do I know how many people on earth choose the way of God/Salvation, and how many reject both God and salvation. The world is redeemed in that it is no longer under the bondage of sin. Recall that Jesus mediated this difference between God and man, which opened, to all, the Way of Salvation. Some choose this salvation, others do not. For example, why would satanists want to live in close proximity to God? Others might choose to serve only themselves, so why would their choice be to serve God?

 

[buttercup]

What does redemption on earth have to do with heaven? Redemption frees us from the bondage of sin in this world. Heavenly life in God had no need of redemption. Nor do I know how many people on earth choose the way of God/Salvation, and how many reject both God and salvation. The world is redeemed in that it is no longer under the bondage of sin. Recall that Jesus mediated this difference between God and man, which opened, to all, the Way of Salvation. Some choose this salvation, others do not. For example, why would satanists want to live in close proximity to God? Others might choose to serve only themselves, so why would their choice be to serve God?

AGAIN, no one has argued that the Way of salvation is not open to all! Of course it is! So why you keep saying that is beyond me, since that is not something anyone has ever denied.

We're talking about what happens AFTER this life.

Let's cut to the chase. Just skip ahead to the very last part of my last reply to you. The scenario I gave you about a car accident, and you talking to someone who is about to die. Just go to that part of my post and please reply specifically to that question in the last part of my post.

 

[Meriweather]

In the fewest words possible, please share in your own words how one attains eternal life with God.

RSVP

 

[Meriweather]

Let's say that there was a car accident, and you happened to see the whole thing, and you pulled over and found someone lying on the pavement, about to die at any moment. You KNOW this person is going to die. And the person says to you "I've been a nonbeliever my whole life but now I want to know, what do I have to do to be saved and be with God in heaven?"

God knows your heart.

 

[buttercup]

RSVP

? What, are you saying you have to go now and you'll get back to this thread later? If so, ok. I've got stuff I need to do right now anyway.

 

[Meriweather]

? What, are you saying you have to go now and you'll get back to this thread later? If so, ok. I've got stuff I need to do right now anyway.

I am saying that God invites us all to spend eternal life in heaven. So RSVP, accepting that invitation.

 

[buttercup]

I am saying that God invites us all to spend eternal life in heaven. So RSVP, accepting that invitation.

Ok, now we're finally getting somewhere! Yes, of course one must accept that invitation.

How does one do that?

I can see that my car accident scenario didn't work for you, since you still won't state how one gets saved.

So again, how does one receive the invitation? Is there anything they must do? Since you finally clarified that it is not automatic (thank you!) that part of the question still remains.

 

[boilermaker55]

Seems being a "reformed" Catholic has maybe changed your life for the better, yet it is striking that a deep opinion of others that you know nothing about seems to be a bit contrary.
But then "religion" and each individuals interpretation of scripture is valid.

That's amazing. Usually only baptized or confirmed Catholics pray the rosary. The rosary is what got me to convert: from half-ass Christian to practicing one, and when I was half ass Christian, I was not being Catholic but the rosary took care of that also. Now if the CC could just get its act together and become UNITED (SSPX and other tradtionalists and novus ordo)

But that's Satan for ya, always DIVIDING

to conquer

 

[Meriweather]

I can see that my car accident scenario didn't work for you, since you still won't state how one gets saved.

He wanted to see God, that desire was the first step in the Way of Salvation. God met him there, as God meets all of us exactly where we are and brings us closer from there.

 

[buttercup]

He wanted to see God, that desire was the first step in the Way of Salvation. God met him there, as God meets all of us exactly where we are and brings us closer from there.

This is why I said giving you that scenario was a bad idea, because I should've known you'd answer this way....it gives you an opportunity to not fully answer the question.

I have to say, you are as slippery as a greased pig. (lol...I'm sorry if that was blunt, but I had to say it.)

But I'm stubborn, so I'm not going to let you keep slipping away from answering the question.

Let me try putting it this way.... Is there anything AT ALL that one must do to be justified in God's eyes and have eternal life with God?

 

[Meriweather]

So again, how does one receive the invitation? Is there anything they must do? Since you finally clarified that it is not automatic (thank you!) that part of the question still remains.

The invitation is there for all. It is to know God, love God, and serve God--and to be happy with him. From early childhood, I took all of this seriously. I began by seeking God, and I did meet him in my own life, a teensy part of of the world, and a microscopic particle of time. Studying the Bible (takes decades) is also a good way to learn about and come to know God. As a kid, I had a very difficult time loving God above all else. Seriously, I kept a list of those I loved...and there was God at the bottom. It took decades before he made it to the top. Serving God I found easiest. We're to help one another, which is much easier than the knowing and loving parts!​

​

Knowing God steps us into the Commandments, the Sacraments, the Beatitudes, Redemption, and Salvation...in other words we pick up our cross daily and follow him.​

​

I don't consider any of the above "musts". They are invitations, graces, life-lines that are ours in this redeemed world on our way to salvation.​

 

[Meriweather]

Let me try putting it this way.... Is there anything AT ALL that one must do to be justified in God's eyes and have eternal life with God?

Love God and love others.

 

[hadit]

Catholics believe two thousand years ago Christ redeemed the entire world and opened the way of salvation to all. Therefore, Catholics do not say to their children, "You will have to wait until your older to join us in the Body of Christ and in the Way of Salvation." Catholics are living salvation and we take our children along with us. We are not leaving them behind and we are not leaving them in the waiting room to join the Body of Christ. Christ already redeemed these children and opened the way of salvation and our children's walk begins with us--we don't wait. Let the children come to me...

We never tell our children they have to wait to join the Body of Christ. How odd that you would even think that.

 

[Meriweather]

I have to say, you are as slippery as a greased pig. (lol...I'm sorry if that was blunt, but I had to say it.)

Doesn't bother me. Starlight and moonbeams are the ways of God, nothing as substantial as a pig.