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well, Seek and you will find
I've had crises in my life where I got frustrated with how my spiritual life was going (not going) and one time, in total exasperation, I said to myself "I don't know what I believe anymore" For a moment, I let it all go. So I sat there and wondered about this.....
What DO I believe? (with certainty)
And one word came to me from Realityville:
JESUS
bible verse?Praying to Mary gives grace to the soul
She is what all of us should be: a human being without original sin. I'm sure she didn't have much non-original or actual sin either. She was likely tempted to sin at Calvary, seeing how the thugs dealt with her precious son...?
not sure what the ancient Church teaches about that kind of thing
Protestants get Catholicism WRONG more often than not (understatement).
Catholics say that works are not what saves you. Nevertheless, you cannot get to Heaven without doing good works for Christ and the furtherance of His Kingdom on Earth
Catholicism teaches (or did until Francis the heretic came along) that it is GRACE that saves, grace that comes from Jesus Christ (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).
Doing good works in and with and through Christ brings... what?
GRACE
Not doing good works for the furtherance of the Kingdom brings what...
lack of grace... sins indulged in to the point you don't care about your soul much or anyone else's
Official Catholic teaching would not allow the sinner to rely by faith on the mercy of God or to believe that his sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake only. Something more is required. You must keep yourself justified by your own good works. You must merit grace and eternal life by your works. You must pay the debt of sins by your penance and your purgatorial sufferings. That is Rome's salvation by works!Canon 11. If anyone says that men are justified either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ or by the sole remission of sins, excluding grace and charity which is poured into their hearts by the Holy Spirit and inheres in them, or also that the grace which justifies us is only the favour of God, let him be anathema. (see note 1)
Canon 12. If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, let him be anathema.
Canon 24. If anyone says that the justice (righteousness) received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of the increase, let him be anathema.
Canon 30. If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.
Canon 32. If anyone says that the good works of the one justified are in such manner the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of him justified; or that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ (of whom one is a living member), the justified does not truly merit an increase of grace, and eternal life, provided that one dies in the state of grace, the attainment of this eternal life, as well as an increase in glory, let him be anathema.
Those who give, receive; the generous prosper. This is as true an observation as the observation, "A body in motion stays in motion; a body at rest, remains at rest." God did not set up this world to enslave us, but to prosper us.It brings servitude to an ideology where you are expected to DO without receiving anything material in return. I call that SLAVERY.
Salvation can't be earned any more than the air we breathe can be earned. Air and salvation are there for us. There is a higher purpose, and that higher purpose is for us to be the best version of ourselves we can be. No one can be a good runner without running; a good worker without working; a generous person without giving.If FAITH isn’t enough to earn Salvation, I wouldn’t want anything to do with Salvation. Not that I have any faith in the Abrahamic God to begin with.
What was the expectation? What need wasn't met?My father believed in that guy. When my father needed that guy the most, HE WAS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND.
I am going with the idea you met 'love' not 'live'? You never loved anyone and you never will? Have there been times you did something for someone else or that someone did something for you?I don’t believe in live. I never have and never will. I learned that it doesn’t exist very early in life and a half century later I haven’t found anything to change my mind.
Organized religion has its place, often a great place. It is also limited. There are times it seems it can only offer a sip of water to a thirsty person. It does offer what it has. While often it can help, be enough for a time, in the end it is the foundation, not the entire mansion.When I got to that questioning mentality it was more an “I don’t believe this anymore” moment. It was an understanding that I no longer had the faith that I’d had for years. I sought out an answer and it didn’t end up being any organized religion or faith.
Mary the mother of Jesus was a godly and blessed woman, but she was not without sin. Jesus was the only human without sin. Jesus “had no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21). “In him is no sin” (1 John 3:5). Nothing of the sort is ever said of Mary or anyone else. Jesus Christ is fully human, but He is also fully God (John 1:1). He is the Lamb of God, “without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:19), a title and description no other person can claim.Praying to Mary gives grace to the soul
She is what all of us should be: a human being without original sin. I'm sure she didn't have much non-original or actual sin either. She was likely tempted to sin at Calvary, seeing how the thugs dealt with her precious son...?
not sure what the ancient Church teaches about that kind of thing
Mary the mother of Jesus was a godly and blessed woman, but she was not without sin. Jesus was the only human without sin. Jesus “had no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21). “In him is no sin” (1 John 3:5). Nothing of the sort is ever said of Mary or anyone else. Jesus Christ is fully human, but He is also fully God (John 1:1). He is the Lamb of God, “without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:19), a title and description no other person can claim.
As an ordinary part of the human race, born into the world the ordinary way, Mary was not without sin. Romans 3:23 teaches that all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory, and there is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Mary was an exception to this rule. The apostle John wrote, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us” (1 John 1:8–10). The “we” in this passage includes Mary, the mother of Jesus. To claim Mary is without sin is an example of “deceit.”
Mary was not without sin.
“If we claim to be without sin
Well, I was impulsively about to say afew things but then realized there is this HUGE problem between you and me:Apparently we found different things during our searches. Glad you found something that works for you. It doesn’t work for me anymore.
When I got to that questioning mentality it was more an “I don’t believe this anymore” moment. It was an understanding that I no longer had the faith that I’d had for years. I sought out an answer and it didn’t end up being any organized religion or faith.
The expectation was that a supposedly “loving” God would look with favor and mercy on one of his children who I can truthfully call “one of the most good, decent and faithful” men I’ve ever met rather than leaving that man to wither away and die in an utterly pathetic state over 33 months.What was the expectation? What need wasn't met?
You are correct. Love is not an emotion I’ve ever felt, either giving or receiving. I’ve learned that life is about investing one’s time, energy and money in what will bring a return on thst investment; nor what makes someone momentarily pleased.I am going with the idea you met 'love' not 'live'? You never loved anyone and you never will? Have there been times you did something for someone else or that someone did something for you?
Organized religion, even your beloved Catholic Church, has become about the religion far more than the Theology or belief systems.Organized religion has its place, often a great place. It is also limited. There are times it seems it can only offer a sip of water to a thirsty person. It does offer what it has. While often it can help, be enough for a time, in the end it is the foundation, not the entire mansion
I grew up in the Lutheran church. You can’t swing an arm without hitting a church worker in my family (both sides). Even as we jokingly call Lutheranism the “back door of the RCC”; from my (limited) involvement with the Catholic Church, I could never spend any time in that church. Though I wish you the best with it for yourself.You never apparently tried Catholicism. I have.
So I don't see how I can intelligently respond until that hurdle is somehow overcome. Protestants don't understand Catholicism. Truth be told, only practicing Catholics do
the reason people are confused in the Christian world about which beliefs are true and which not is part of the terrible consequences of the Church being split in history. First it was split by Luther, the archheretic, then it was split at Vatican II. So it's no wonder people believe odd things
Thirty-three months...a relatively short time, then. And, no, I am not being flippant, only that I know that roller coaster. And you probably know, as I do, it's not any easier when death comes fast.The expectation was that a supposedly “loving” God would look with favor and mercy on one of his children who I can truthfully call “one of the most good, decent and faithful” men I’ve ever met rather than leaving that man to wither away and die in an utterly pathetic state over 33 months.
I see people going through tough times, with all of us so focused (and much of the time by necessity) on our own difficulties we don't see how we hurt each other (often in small ways) or how warmth or caring can heal. We don't see the impact we can have on the lives of others--often we are totally blind both to the havoc and healing we leave in our wake.You are correct. Love is not an emotion I’ve ever felt, either giving or receiving. I’ve learned that life is about investing one’s time, energy and money in what will bring a return on thst investment; nor what makes someone momentarily pleased.
Theresa of Avila - back in the 1500s - noted that religion can get one onto the front step or perhaps even into the foyer for those who work at it, but after that, we are pretty much on our own. I think Jesus was pretty much of the same mind. Religion opens the door, but it is up to us whether we take a step or two inside the door, or begin a journey that takes us many, many miles.Organized religion, even your beloved Catholic Church, has become about the religion far more than the Theology or belief systems.
That’s not my understanding.Official Catholic teaching would not allow the sinner to rely by faith on the mercy of God or to believe that his sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake only. Something more is required. You must keep yourself justified by your own good works. You must merit grace and eternal life by your works. You must pay the debt of sins by your penance and your purgatorial sufferings. That is Rome's salvation by works!
Life IS a dark shadow. Its point is misery, suffering, and loss. I’ve come to understand that we exist solely to prove our Soul can endure the horrors of the life in this world and still live properly. Nothing more.Life has its dark shadows, its extremely hard times. It is not all sweetness and light. God is there to get us through what life IS--the reality--not what we wish it were. I learned that at a young age, and nothing has ever happened for me to come to any other conclusion. God can--and does--lend a hand with many things, but physical maladies are not at the top of the list, if indeed they are on the list at all.
If that’s so, I need to stop it, immediately. I’m not here to help others and I don’t ask for any help. Love is a waste of time and energy in all its forms.What I am saying is that you may be doing more good than you realize, that your work and investments do make this world better. Perhaps it is not love, but it is something either beyond or closely related to it?
I see it differently… I believe that Morality exists outside and above Religion, not as a function of Religion. Many of the most Moral folks I know are non-religious and some of the most immoral scumbags I’ve ever seen have been members of the clergy.,Religion opens the door, but it is up to us whether we take a step or two inside the door, or begin a journey that takes us many, many miles
Obviously the Church can only do so much. My issue has never been that the Church couldn’t fix my or my father’s issues. My problem has been their continued preaching of the obviously false narrative of a loving, caring GOD, who wants what’s best for His “children” but abandons them in their moments of greatest need. That’s why I walked away from organized religion… the message is hollow and empty.We all want something more, and I am not sure it is fair to blame an organization for what we need to do for ourselves and often on our own. That is the credit I give the Catholic Church--it makes it clear it is too busy greeting people at the door to do much else for me or my fellow travelers. I am in the door, and many of those I meet along the way have me appreciating the welcome at the door.
So do I. Isn't that what most believe? Religion doesn't make up these truths, it points to these truths.I believe that Morality exists outside and above Religion
I find a very large percentage of people who believe that Morality emirates FROM Religion and that the non-religious (even members of other denominations and sects) cannot be Moral at all.So do I. Isn't that what most believe? Religion doesn't make up these truths, it points to these truths
Praying to Mary gives grace to the soul
She is what all of us should be: a human being without original sin. I'm sure she didn't have much non-original or actual sin either. She was likely tempted to sin at Calvary, seeing how the thugs dealt with her precious son...?
not sure what the ancient Church teaches about that kind of thing
