Zone1 Catholic Church's Position Against the Death Penalty

[Arlette]

See my reply to TN below.

If one wants to discuss a topic, one must know the details of the topic, even if this is getting OFF-topic.

I read it and I don't agree. The Catholic Church as an institution protected those guys, covered it up, shipped em around so they could have another go at it at some different location. But you know all that.

 

[Arlette]

May I say, cut the taxes on people and then see what you say. And really, it is the taxation on us all that causes all of this.

I don't even know what you are talking about.

 

[TNHarley]

There's a REASON the nun population has fallen off drastically.
They don't want to become pregnant.

There are many possibilities to that. Loss of faith, which is increasing. Women can now do more than just be stay at home wives and nuns.
Thank gawd we are becoming more secular and not letting barbaric catholic beliefs lead society, huh?

 

[TNHarley]

I don't want them running prisons. But if the topic is to be debated, it has to be honestly debated.

which is what is happening.

 

[martybegan]

Jesus... You want to compare a girl going to church to little boys that worked for them all the time? Mkay

Altar Girls have been a thing since the 90's. That's when all this stuff really broke, and that's when the Church finally started making changes.

Did most of these cases involve pubescent/post pubescent boys or pre pubescent boys? Yes or No?

 

[Meriweather]

Yep, teachers seem to have an issue as well. Has nothing to do with catholics.
Please stop trying to normalize it.

Now--and certainly back then--it was never about "normalizing" it! It was about exposing it, how it was going on throughout society, and society needs to come together to protect the children! How do you think I felt as a young reporter that the two organizations I was closest to were offenders! The schools were protected because...guess why...when lawsuits started coming, the taxpayers would be on the hook for paying for settlements. Businesses were protected because they provided advertising money! The whole thing was a mess. My personal opinion at the time was let the Church be exposed, because something had to be done, so why not let the Church lead the way! In fact, the Catholic Church did become an example on how to eliminate what was happening in other places.

But the saddest part of all (talking to police) who seemed to think the greatest offenders of all were family members--and the rest of the family keeping quiet to protect what was usually a breadwinner or to protect the reputation of the family name.

You don't know an eighth of what was going on! But by all means, continue throwing mud at the Catholic Church alone, for what happened in the past and has since has been--and continues to be--corrected. Society is no longer living in the 50s and 60s.

 

[martybegan]

I read it and I don't agree. The Catholic Church as an institution protected those guys, covered it up, shipped em around so they could have another go at it at some different location. But you know all that.

Of Course I know that. My explanation has notihng to do with the coverup, but the reasoning behind the abuse.

 

[22lcidw]

Nope....
This is where I'm going to disagree.

The Catholic Church has had MASSIVE internal problems with their labor force. Not minor ones. Massive internal politics has made it to where none of these problems are addressed appropriately either. Oversight has been an ongoing problem with most large institutions and the Catholic Church has proven to not be immune as well.

I'm not finger pointing or anything of that sort. Just stating the obvious facts. The current pope has not exactly delighted the membership desiring a more biblical morality. (Like John Paul) Meaning that the root problem resides with the Cardinals and Bishops...further indicating a grass roots problem.

There exists too many problems in using a religious organization for secular work. (ACLU wouldn't stand for it either)

Vatican 2 appeared around the same time Progressive Socialists took over the Democratic Party in the mid 1960's. Feminism. Affirmative Action, Quotas, Diversity, and the losing of control of the Fiat Currency started at the same time around 1970 or so.

 

[martybegan]

which is what is happening.

Not when you call them pedophiles.

 

[TNHarley]

Altar Girls have been a thing since the 90's. That's when all this stuff really broke, and that's when the Church finally started making changes.

Did most of these cases involve pubescent/post pubescent boys or pre pubescent boys? Yes or No?

Why does that even matter? They were abusing CHILDREN.

 

[TNHarley]

Not when you call them pedophiles.

Well thank gawd kiddie fu*&ing is fine.

You brought the word up. Not me.
What were you saying about honesty?

 

[Arlette]

Of Course I know that. My explanation has notihng to do with the coverup, but the reasoning behind the abuse.

The reason behind the abuse was because the Church turned a blind eye.

 

[Votto]

The Church's argument against the death penalty is that prisons are now strong enough to prevent prison escapes, and therefore society is protected against vicious killers. Vicious/serial killers are still human and deserving of respect due all humans. They should be given the opportunity to rebuild themselves and rehabilitate their character. Isn't the point of prison rehabilitation?

Not sure if holding someone in perpetuity in a place where violence and gang rape is 24/7 is more humane than the death penalty, in addition to taxpayer expense and the risk of a Soros appointed Left-wing judge letting them out of prison to kill again.

 

[martybegan]

Why does that even matter? They were abusing CHILDREN.

Yes.

Accuracy is everything it these debates.

 

[theHawk]

And that is why the Church should take over housing, teaching, caring for, and rehabilitating death row inmates. Apparently we have the finances. We have Catholics all over the world trained in all professions. Call on Catholics to build, maintain, and do all the related works.

The point of prison isn’t rehabilitation. It’s to lock them up and keep them from ever harming anyone else.

Some people are irredeemable from a society standpoint. They can find God if they want before their execution. If they truly repent their soul may be saved. That is for God to decide upon their judgement.


The church is about saving souls.

 

[martybegan]

The reason behind the abuse was because the Church turned a blind eye.

That's the coverup of the abuse, not the reason.

 

[martybegan]

You brought the word up. Not me.
What were you saying about honesty?

When you say "kiddie" you imply pedophilia.

 

[Votto]

If the Catholic Church wants the end of the death penalty, then the Catholic Church should build and operate a facility for those sentenced to death. The only prisoners in there would be those under the sentence of death. But then...here we come to the rehabilitation part. Wouldn't these people have to form their own community where they were doing meaningful work, taking care of each other by doing the cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. AND bringing in work to finance themselves (license plates, sorting garbage for recyclables, writing their life story with all proceeds going straight to the prison community on individual pockets, etc.

Which brings us to the question of what happens when one of the inmates begin killing other inmates in the prison.

In providing and maintaining this facility, by necessity, the Church would have to provide medical and psychiatric along with the spiritual help.

Again, my main point is not that the Church is calling for the end of the death penalty--but is calling for it without lifting a finger. If the Church believes ending the death penalty is what God is asking for in this day and age, then the Church itself should be leading the way, and figuring out all--and how--this is to be done, and doing it without help as it is the Church's grand idea. While I applaud the idea, I am disgusted that the Church is calling for someone else to take care of this. I (a Catholic) call for the Church to put up or shut up. (And I'd have so much more admiration and respect if the Church does the former.)

The Catholic church also says they oppose abortion while preaching about the evils of building walls and climate change instead.

I don't think the left wing Pope actually believes abortion is murder, or if he does, is OK with mass infanticide around the world.

 

[JohnDB]

There are many possibilities to that. Loss of faith, which is increasing. Women can now do more than just be stay at home wives and nuns.
Thank gawd we are becoming more secular and not letting barbaric catholic beliefs lead society, huh?

I don't have so much a problem with their beliefs as I do with their abuses.

And neither do women.

Nuns have a desire to do specific work for God. But in order to do so they become vulnerable to predators within the Catholic Church with no recourse or remedy. Their complaints often fall upon deaf ears or are themselves blamed for the abuses they suffer.
(not all is sexual abuse)

And the Catholics have been extremely reticent to fix these problems in any fashion. Some problems have been addressed of late but it's too little too late. Women don't want to be a doormat. Go figure eh?

 

[TNHarley]

When you say "kiddie" you imply pedophilia.

So you say.