Catholic Bishops Oppose Compromise on Birth-Control

[saveliberty]

NO, this thread is about the right having no problem with employers discriminating against women. This would be all fine and dandy if these employers didnt have health plans that covered elective men's services.
I also think that is interesting that no women who are for them covering birth control were invited to be heard at the hearings today. All it was, was a bunch of men bitching about being discriminated against. Weird, huh?

Those 'hearings' were on the Constitutionality of the mandate, Luissa...

Your point?

Basically, that you're missing the point of the hearings.

 

[Intense]

Women who have had no previous abortion, or just one equals 74,978
While the others add up to 32,848.

The Link shows 47,332, first time abortions. Why would you include Second Time Abortions in your number?
Table 19: Induced Abortion Summary by Woman's Race/Ethnicity - New York State 2009

because I don't consider people having two abortions using abortions as their primary form of birth control, which is what you stated.

I think you are playing with words Luissa to advance a Political Agenda. I personally am more concerned about the abuse of the System and the Human Body. Sorry, but you are losing credibility. The Fact that you cannot correctly add repeat abortions and would include second time abortions with first time abortions when they are clearly repeat abortions, to give you unearned advantage on a message board is sad. Sorry. You are playing with numbers, that are real deaths, you get that right. Learn to count credibly.

That number is one year in NYS.

 

[Luissa]

Can't afford a pregnancy? Here's your choices:

1. Don't have sex with your girlfriend.
2. Make sure you buy birth control.
3. Make sure your employer sponsored health plan covers it.

The government certainly IS forcing someone to buy birth control. Pretty much what this entire thread is about. Where you been?

NO, this thread is about the right having no problem with employers discriminating against women. This would be all fine and dandy if these employers didnt have health plans that covered elective men's services.
I also think that is interesting that no women who are for them covering birth control were invited to be heard at the hearings today. All it was, was a bunch of men bitching about being discriminated against. Weird, huh?

No, its about the government trying to tell a religion it needs to change its moral compass. You are trying to reframe it. Since it is assumed that the women is having sex with a man that could result in a birth. I'd say it is equal and therefore not discrimination.

Yeah, sure.

But that man can get his employer to cover the viagra to get hard to have sex, but the woman cannot get her birth control covered so she will not get pregnant when having sex with said man... See the discrimination there?
We can pay for a man to get hard, but we can't pay for a women to have birth control.

 

[Luissa]

Those 'hearings' were on the Constitutionality of the mandate, Luissa...

Your point?

Basically, that you're missing the point of the hearings.

oh! am I?
So a woman on the other side of the issue cannot testify on the mandate? Especially when there are rulings on not covering birth control being a form of discrimination?
Its okay, I understand you don't get it.

 

[Luissa]

The Link shows 47,332, first time abortions. Why would you include Second Time Abortions in your number?
Table 19: Induced Abortion Summary by Woman's Race/Ethnicity - New York State 2009

because I don't consider people having two abortions using abortions as their primary form of birth control, which is what you stated.

I think you are playing with words Luissa to advance a Political Agenda. I personally am more concerned about the abuse of the System and the Human Body. Sorry, but you are losing credibility. The Fact that you cannot correctly add repeat abortions and would include second time abortions with first time abortions when they are clearly repeat abortions, to give you unearned advantage on a message board is sad. Sorry. You are playing with numbers, that are real deaths, you get that right. Learn to count credibly.

That number is one year in NYS.

Look up how many people have more than one abortion, and or how many use it as primary birth control.

This what I said, and you responded by posting your numbers.
Having two abortions is not using abortion as a primary form of birth control. You are the one playing with words to further your political agenda, not me.
Plus this thread has nothing to do with abortions, and everything to do with birth control. If you want to discuss abortion, start another thread.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Your point?

Basically, that you're missing the point of the hearings.

oh! am I?
So a woman on the other side of the issue cannot testify on the mandate? Especially when there are rulings on not covering birth control being a form of discrimination?
Its okay, I understand you don't get it.

Are there any women that want to testify to the Constitutionality of the mandate??

And I'd like to add that penile implants and Viagra should be DROPPED from health care coverage to eliminate your discrimination claim. Would that satisfy you?

 

[Luissa]

Basically, that you're missing the point of the hearings.

oh! am I?
So a woman on the other side of the issue cannot testify on the mandate? Especially when there are rulings on not covering birth control being a form of discrimination?
Its okay, I understand you don't get it.

Are there any women that want to testify to the Constitutionality of the mandate??

And I'd like to add that penile implants and Viagra should be DROPPED from health care coverage to eliminate your discrimination claim. Would that satisfy you?

In fact, Congressman Issa rejected the opportunity to allow a woman attending Georgetown University’s law school to testify about the positive impact the birth control benefit would have on women.

Read more: Birth control witness panel photo

I think a woman studying law at Georgetown might be able to speak on the issue.

 

[saveliberty]

oh! am I?
So a woman on the other side of the issue cannot testify on the mandate? Especially when there are rulings on not covering birth control being a form of discrimination?
Its okay, I understand you don't get it.

Are there any women that want to testify to the Constitutionality of the mandate??

And I'd like to add that penile implants and Viagra should be DROPPED from health care coverage to eliminate your discrimination claim. Would that satisfy you?

In fact, Congressman Issa rejected the opportunity to allow a woman attending Georgetown University’s law school to testify about the positive impact the birth control benefit would have on women.

Read more: Birth control witness panel photo

I think a woman studying law at Georgetown might be able to speak on the issue.

You are clueless as to what the hearing is discussing. It isn't about whether birth control is good or bad. It is the Constitutional question of the government venturing into religious territory. More to the point, it isn't about what you FEEL.

 

[Luissa]

You guys might have a point if they were not allowing religious leaders and just their lawyers speak. Yes, the lady wanted to speak out about the issue with its regards to women but the woman was a law student who probably has some understanding of the constitution. You don't think she would have not come up with points as to why the mandate is legal, especially when there is other rulings on this very issue?
You are the one who is clueless.

Are there any women that want to testify to the Constitutionality of the mandate??

And I'd like to add that penile implants and Viagra should be DROPPED from health care coverage to eliminate your discrimination claim. Would that satisfy you?

In fact, Congressman Issa rejected the opportunity to allow a woman attending Georgetown University’s law school to testify about the positive impact the birth control benefit would have on women.

Read more: Birth control witness panel photo

I think a woman studying law at Georgetown might be able to speak on the issue.

You are clueless as to what the hearing is discussing. It isn't about whether birth control is good or bad. It is the Constitutional question of the government venturing into religious territory. More to the point, it isn't about what you FEEL.

 

[Luissa]

Of the 10 witnesses Issa allowed to testify, none are in favor of Obama's plan.


Read more: Birth control witness panel photo

Wow! I think I would been fine with a male who was actually on the other side of the issue.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's pretty funny to see rightwingers so eager to fight battles they lost decades ago.

No wonder conservatism is dead.

 

[saveliberty]

Err...like I said, this is what the hearing was about:

Democrats protest religious freedom hearing
By JIM ABRAMS
Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Religious leaders told a House panel Thursday the Obama administration was violating basic rights to religious freedom with its policies for requiring that employees of religion-affiliated institutions have access to birth control coverage.


Associated Press news, sports and entertainment on The Advocate

The panel wanted a religious perspective. You wanted them to trot in lawyers and birth control advocates. No three ring circus, too bad.

 

[Ravi]

If my girlfriend gets pregnant, that would be a major thing we can't afford to go wrong right now.

How is that anywhere near comparable? The government is not forcing anyone to buy birth control, or coverage that will include birth control. The law merely requires that employers not interfere to prevent the insurance company from making the option available. I can choose to buy car insurance that will cover many things, or I can choose to buy insurance that only covers a few things. The health care law will open up those options to choose for all people.

Can't afford a pregnancy? Here's your choices:

1. Don't have sex with your girlfriend.
2. Make sure you buy birth control.
3. Make sure your employer sponsored health plan covers it.

The government certainly IS forcing someone to buy birth control. Pretty much what this entire thread is about. Where you been?

NO, this thread is about the right having no problem with employers discriminating against women. This would be all fine and dandy if these employers didnt have health plans that covered elective men's services.
I also think that is interesting that no women who are for them covering birth control were invited to be heard at the hearings today. All it was, was a bunch of men bitching about being discriminated against. Weird, huh?

Not weird when you realize that it was the Republicans that decided to allow only men. Not weird at all.

 

[sealybobo]

The right wing Republican politicians who have been denouncing the requirement that female employees have access to birth control as part of their health benefits as an attack on religious freedom completely ignore the church teachings they don’t agree with. Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich are both Catholics, and wear their faith on their sleeves, but they are hypocritical in picking and choosing when they wish to listen to the bishops.

1. For instance, Pope John Paul II was against anyone going to war against Iraq I think you’ll find that Rick Santorum managed to ignore that Catholic teaching.

2.The Conference of Catholic Bishops requires that health care be provided to all Americans. Rick Santorum’s opposition to universal health care is a betrayal of the Catholic faith.

3. The Catholic Church opposes the death penalty for criminals in almost all situations.

4. The US Conference of Bishops has urged that the federal minimum wage be increased, for the working poor.

5. The bishops want welfare for all needy families, saying “We reiterate our call for a minimum national welfare benefit that will permit children and their parents to live in dignity. A decent society will not balance its budget on the backs of poor children.”

6. The US bishops say that “the basic rights of workers must be respected–the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to the organization and joining of unions…”.

7. Catholic bishops demand the withdrawal of Israel from Palestinian territories occupied in 1967.

8. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops ripped into Arizona’s law on treatment of immigrants. And they have argued that illegal immigrants not be treated as criminals and that their contribution to this country be recognized.

9. The US Conference of Bishops has denounced, as has the Pope, the Bush idea of ‘preventive war’, and has come out against an attack on Iran in the absence of a real and present threat of an Iranian assault on the US.

 

[California Girl]

Of the 10 witnesses Issa allowed to testify, none are in favor of Obama's plan.


Read more: Birth control witness panel photo

Wow! I think I would been fine with a male who was actually on the other side of the issue.

I've stayed out of this thread for a while, because the constant back and forth was boring. However, and this might shock my fellow USMBers.....


I'm gonna agree with Luissa on this. While I do not support the mandate, I find it absolutely ridiculous that they didn't have anyone testifying on behalf of the plan. Male or female, I don't really give a shit about.... but I do find it ludicrous that they didn't have one individual in support of the plan.

 

[California Girl]

The right wing Republican politicians who have been denouncing the requirement that female employees have access to birth control as part of their health benefits as an attack on religious freedom completely ignore the church teachings they don’t agree with. Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich are both Catholics, and wear their faith on their sleeves, but they are hypocritical in picking and choosing when they wish to listen to the bishops.

1. For instance, Pope John Paul II was against anyone going to war against Iraq I think you’ll find that Rick Santorum managed to ignore that Catholic teaching.

2.The Conference of Catholic Bishops requires that health care be provided to all Americans. Rick Santorum’s opposition to universal health care is a betrayal of the Catholic faith.

3. The Catholic Church opposes the death penalty for criminals in almost all situations.

4. The US Conference of Bishops has urged that the federal minimum wage be increased, for the working poor.

5. The bishops want welfare for all needy families, saying “We reiterate our call for a minimum national welfare benefit that will permit children and their parents to live in dignity. A decent society will not balance its budget on the backs of poor children.”

6. The US bishops say that “the basic rights of workers must be respected–the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to the organization and joining of unions…”.

7. Catholic bishops demand the withdrawal of Israel from Palestinian territories occupied in 1967.

8. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops ripped into Arizona’s law on treatment of immigrants. And they have argued that illegal immigrants not be treated as criminals and that their contribution to this country be recognized.

9. The US Conference of Bishops has denounced, as has the Pope, the Bush idea of ‘preventive war’, and has come out against an attack on Iran in the absence of a real and present threat of an Iranian assault on the US.

1. You clearly know nothing about the Catholic Church. We are supposed to abide by it's doctrines.... but we do not have to agree with every opinion of the Pope. We are not brainwashed, unthinking sheep. The Pope was absolutely right to speak out against the war..... but he did not give an instruction to Catholics that they must not support it.

2. It does not 'require' it, it supports access to healthcare for all.

3. The Church is absolutely pro life.... hence, no abortion (we view life as beginning at conception) and the death penalty. (which I personally support - in a more limited fashion than currently applied) See, individuals are allowed to disagree with the Church. Does not invalidate the Doctrine of the Church though.

4. The Catholic Church has always - around the world - fought for the poor.

5. See 4.

6. The Catholic Church was instrumental in the fight for workers rights, and civil rights, and a whole bunch more stuff.

Are you beginning to get the hint now?

You know nothing about Catholics. I suggest you learn more before you form a stupid opinion.

 

[Luissa]

At least you can be objective. Even if you don't agree you have to think it is weird they are only hearing one side of the issue.

Of the 10 witnesses Issa allowed to testify, none are in favor of Obama's plan.


Read more: Birth control witness panel photo

Wow! I think I would been fine with a male who was actually on the other side of the issue.

I've stayed out of this thread for a while, because the constant back and forth was boring. However, and this might shock my fellow USMBers.....


I'm gonna agree with Luissa on this. While I do not support the mandate, I find it absolutely ridiculous that they didn't have anyone testifying on behalf of the plan. Male or female, I don't really give a shit about.... but I do find it ludicrous that they didn't have one individual in support of the plan.

 

[Peach]

The right wing Republican politicians who have been denouncing the requirement that female employees have access to birth control as part of their health benefits as an attack on religious freedom completely ignore the church teachings they don’t agree with. Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich are both Catholics, and wear their faith on their sleeves, but they are hypocritical in picking and choosing when they wish to listen to the bishops.

1. For instance, Pope John Paul II was against anyone going to war against Iraq I think you’ll find that Rick Santorum managed to ignore that Catholic teaching.

2.The Conference of Catholic Bishops requires that health care be provided to all Americans. Rick Santorum’s opposition to universal health care is a betrayal of the Catholic faith.

3. The Catholic Church opposes the death penalty for criminals in almost all situations.

4. The US Conference of Bishops has urged that the federal minimum wage be increased, for the working poor.

5. The bishops want welfare for all needy families, saying “We reiterate our call for a minimum national welfare benefit that will permit children and their parents to live in dignity. A decent society will not balance its budget on the backs of poor children.”

6. The US bishops say that “the basic rights of workers must be respected–the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to the organization and joining of unions…”.

7. Catholic bishops demand the withdrawal of Israel from Palestinian territories occupied in 1967.

8. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops ripped into Arizona’s law on treatment of immigrants. And they have argued that illegal immigrants not be treated as criminals and that their contribution to this country be recognized.

9. The US Conference of Bishops has denounced, as has the Pope, the Bush idea of ‘preventive war’, and has come out against an attack on Iran in the absence of a real and present threat of an Iranian assault on the US.

these are not big issues with the Catholics who post here:


1. For instance, Pope John Paul II was against anyone going to war against Iraq I think you’ll find that Rick Santorum managed to ignore that Catholic teaching.

2.The Conference of Catholic Bishops requires that health care be provided to all Americans. Rick Santorum’s opposition to universal health care is a betrayal of the Catholic faith.

3. The Catholic Church opposes the death penalty for criminals in almost all situations.

4. The US Conference of Bishops has urged that the federal minimum wage be increased, for the working poor.

5. The bishops want welfare for all needy families, saying “We reiterate our call for a minimum national welfare benefit that will permit children and their parents to live in dignity. A decent society will not balance its budget on the backs of poor children.”

6. The US bishops say that “the basic rights of workers must be respected–the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to the organization and joining of unions…”.

 

[Peach]

The right wing Republican politicians who have been denouncing the requirement that female employees have access to birth control as part of their health benefits as an attack on religious freedom completely ignore the church teachings they don’t agree with. Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich are both Catholics, and wear their faith on their sleeves, but they are hypocritical in picking and choosing when they wish to listen to the bishops.

1. For instance, Pope John Paul II was against anyone going to war against Iraq I think you’ll find that Rick Santorum managed to ignore that Catholic teaching.

2.The Conference of Catholic Bishops requires that health care be provided to all Americans. Rick Santorum’s opposition to universal health care is a betrayal of the Catholic faith.

3. The Catholic Church opposes the death penalty for criminals in almost all situations.

4. The US Conference of Bishops has urged that the federal minimum wage be increased, for the working poor.

5. The bishops want welfare for all needy families, saying “We reiterate our call for a minimum national welfare benefit that will permit children and their parents to live in dignity. A decent society will not balance its budget on the backs of poor children.”

6. The US bishops say that “the basic rights of workers must be respected–the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to the organization and joining of unions…”.

7. Catholic bishops demand the withdrawal of Israel from Palestinian territories occupied in 1967.

8. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops ripped into Arizona’s law on treatment of immigrants. And they have argued that illegal immigrants not be treated as criminals and that their contribution to this country be recognized.

9. The US Conference of Bishops has denounced, as has the Pope, the Bush idea of ‘preventive war’, and has come out against an attack on Iran in the absence of a real and present threat of an Iranian assault on the US.

1. You clearly know nothing about the Catholic Church. We are supposed to abide by it's doctrines.... but we do not have to agree with every opinion of the Pope. We are not brainwashed, unthinking sheep. The Pope was absolutely right to speak out against the war..... but he did not give an instruction to Catholics that they must not support it.

2. It does not 'require' it, it supports access to healthcare for all.

3. The Church is absolutely pro life.... hence, no abortion (we view life as beginning at conception) and the death penalty. (which I personally support - in a more limited fashion than currently applied) See, individuals are allowed to disagree with the Church. Does not invalidate the Doctrine of the Church though.

4. The Catholic Church has always - around the world - fought for the poor.

5. See 4.

6. The Catholic Church was instrumental in the fight for workers rights, and civil rights, and a whole bunch more stuff.

Are you beginning to get the hint now?

You know nothing about Catholics. I suggest you learn more before you form a stupid opinion.

So you are pro life before birth, but accept deaths caused by a war of choice and the death penalty. Odd combination; most Catholics I know, and I am related to a large number, are anti death penalty. I still respect your true pro life beliefs; I have not read that you espouse the EXCEPTIONS I find so unnerving.

 

[California Girl]

The right wing Republican politicians who have been denouncing the requirement that female employees have access to birth control as part of their health benefits as an attack on religious freedom completely ignore the church teachings they don’t agree with. Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich are both Catholics, and wear their faith on their sleeves, but they are hypocritical in picking and choosing when they wish to listen to the bishops.

1. For instance, Pope John Paul II was against anyone going to war against Iraq I think you’ll find that Rick Santorum managed to ignore that Catholic teaching.

2.The Conference of Catholic Bishops requires that health care be provided to all Americans. Rick Santorum’s opposition to universal health care is a betrayal of the Catholic faith.

3. The Catholic Church opposes the death penalty for criminals in almost all situations.

4. The US Conference of Bishops has urged that the federal minimum wage be increased, for the working poor.

5. The bishops want welfare for all needy families, saying “We reiterate our call for a minimum national welfare benefit that will permit children and their parents to live in dignity. A decent society will not balance its budget on the backs of poor children.”

6. The US bishops say that “the basic rights of workers must be respected–the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to the organization and joining of unions…”.

7. Catholic bishops demand the withdrawal of Israel from Palestinian territories occupied in 1967.

8. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops ripped into Arizona’s law on treatment of immigrants. And they have argued that illegal immigrants not be treated as criminals and that their contribution to this country be recognized.

9. The US Conference of Bishops has denounced, as has the Pope, the Bush idea of ‘preventive war’, and has come out against an attack on Iran in the absence of a real and present threat of an Iranian assault on the US.

these are not big issues with the Catholics who post here:


1. For instance, Pope John Paul II was against anyone going to war against Iraq I think you’ll find that Rick Santorum managed to ignore that Catholic teaching.

2.The Conference of Catholic Bishops requires that health care be provided to all Americans. Rick Santorum’s opposition to universal health care is a betrayal of the Catholic faith.

3. The Catholic Church opposes the death penalty for criminals in almost all situations.

4. The US Conference of Bishops has urged that the federal minimum wage be increased, for the working poor.

5. The bishops want welfare for all needy families, saying “We reiterate our call for a minimum national welfare benefit that will permit children and their parents to live in dignity. A decent society will not balance its budget on the backs of poor children.”

6. The US bishops say that “the basic rights of workers must be respected–the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to the organization and joining of unions…”.

For the stupid.... again.... these are not doctrinal issues. There is no commandment from the Pope that Catholics agree with the Church on every position it takes. Learn the fucking difference between our Doctrine and the opinions of the Pope and our Bishops, Cardinals, etc.

Twit.