Capitalism Guarantees Rising Inequality

[Andylusion]

The textile industry in the US and England depended on two things during their early years: high tariffs and slave labor. Capitalism grew up behind heavy tariffs, slavery, and military savagery, as places like India, the Congo, Mississippi, and Somalia prove. Capitalism thrives wherever property rights trump human rights.

Your claim that the textile industry depended on those thing is obviously false since somehow it managed to get along without slaver after the war. It manages to survive without high tariffs now.

Your concept "military savagery" is utterly meaningless.

Not to its victims:

"On September 8, 2000, the head of the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) formally apologized for the agency's participation in the 'ethnic cleansing' of Western tribes."

Population history of the indigenous peoples of the Americas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My claim was the textile industry depended on slave labor and high tariffs during its formation which it did. Capitalism thrives in climates of free labor and government protected monopolies.

Protection from what? The textile industry in the Britain which... DID NOT have slave labor.

Again, I already posted links to several economists which concluded that protection did not cause the industry to grow. In fact, the industry did not modernize until after the protection was removed... proving it COULD survive without protection.

Correlation does not equal causation. Learn that first, then try and argue a better point.

 

[Andylusion]

"In the case of aluminum, Goldman bought Metro International Trade Services, one of the country’s biggest storers of the metal. More than a quarter of the supply of aluminum available on the market is kept in the company’s Detroit-area warehouses.


"Before Goldman bought Metro International three years ago, warehouse customers used to wait an average of six weeks for their purchases to be located, retrieved by forklift and delivered to factories.

"But now that Goldman owns the company, the wait has grown more than tenfold — to more than 16 months, according to industry records.

"Longer waits might be written off as an aggravation, but they also make aluminum more expensive nearly everywhere in the country because of the arcane formula used to determine the cost of the metal on the spot market.

"The delays are so acute that Coca-Cola and many other manufacturers avoid buying aluminum stored here. Nonetheless, they still pay the higher price."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/business/a-shuffle-of-aluminum-but-to-banks-pure-gold.html?_r=1&

That's irrelevant. This is why people on the right, think people on the left are absolutely economically illiterate. Because you think what you posted there, made point. That's sad. Because it doesn't.

"Metro International Trade Services, one of the country’s biggest storers of the metal"

So.... ? You realize that Toyota is the biggest car makers in the world, right? Biggest profits, biggest unit sales, biggest capitalization. They are number one on the world market.

That means they can charge anything they want.... Right? Yet the Toyota Camry is priced almost exactly the same as the comparable Ford Fusion.

"More than a quarter of the supply of aluminum available on the market is kept in the company’s Detroit-area warehouses"

So... ? Again, they are still only 10% of the warehouses out there. Yes, they have 25% of the aluminum stored there. Doesn't matter. First, they don't OWN the aluminum. They are storing it. There's a difference. Second, simply storing it doesn't give them any control over the market. If they were to drive up their prices for storing the aluminum, the customers would move their stocks.

Within 5 minutes of where I live, there are two public storage places. If I had all my stuff at one, and they raised their rates, I would move my stuff to the other one that didn't.

Metro International Trade Services, only owns about 10% of the warehouses, that are listed on the London Metal Exchange. Those are just the 'official' warehouses. You can store your metal ANYWHERE.

Point being, one company owning a fraction of the warehouses, doesn't mean jack squat.

Look at this......

Aluminum Lines Still Trouble the London Metal Exchange - WSJ.com

For years, consumers have complained of problems in procuring metals at five locations around the world: Detroit; Vlissingen, the Netherlands; New Orleans; Johor, Malaysia; and Antwerp, Belgium. At each of those cities, there has been one warehousing company with a wait of more than 100 days for metal delivery. In November, the LME said it would tackle backlogs at any warehouse with waits of 50 days or more.

If the problem was Metro International Trade Services, then why are long waits happening in other countries, like Netherlands, Malaysia, Belgium?

What's your excuse for how Goldman Sach, directing Metro to hold back deliveries, is magically causing warehouses on the other side of the planet, not connected at all with Metro, to have the same issue?

Or why are the Metro warehouses in Italy not having those problems?

Again... the ONLY reason we're having this discussion is because some idiot hates Goldman Sachs, and the lemmings are mindlessly following them.

If you have REAL evidence that Goldman Sachs has directly ordered Metro to deny service, post it. Bring them up on charges. But I highly doubt you people have anything in support, and that's why you keep posting meaningless crap, thinking it makes a point. "They store 25% of blaw blaw blaw" as if.

You wouldn't recognize real evidence; were you homeschooled?

"The story of how this works begins in 27 industrial warehouses in the Detroit area where a Goldman subsidiary stores customers’ aluminum.

"Each day, a fleet of trucks shuffles 1,500-pound bars of the metal among the warehouses.

"Two or three times a day, sometimes more, the drivers make the same circuits.

"They load in one warehouse.

"They unload in another.

"And then they do it again.

"This industrial dance has been choreographed by Goldman to exploit pricing regulations set up by an overseas commodities exchange, an investigation by The New York Times has found.

"The back-and-forth lengthens the storage time. And that adds many millions a year to the coffers of Goldman, which owns the warehouses and charges rent to store the metal.

"It also increases prices paid by manufacturers and consumers across the country.

"Tyler Clay, a forklift driver who worked at the Goldman warehouses until early this year, called the process 'a merry-go-round of metal.'

"Only a tenth of a cent or so of an aluminum can’s purchase price can be traced back to the strategy.

"But multiply that amount by the 90 billion aluminum cans consumed in the United States each year — and add the tons of aluminum used in things like cars, electronics and house siding — and the efforts by Goldman and other financial players has cost American consumers more than $5 billion over the last three years, say former industry executives, analysts and consultants."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/business/a-shuffle-of-aluminum-but-to-banks-pure-gold.html?_r=2&

You are quickly proving yourself too stupid to discuss this topic. First off, if you have to engage in personal attacks, that simply proves you don't have point.

Second, nothing you said changed anything I said.

All of that blaw blaw blaw you posted, doesn't change the fact that other cities, and other counties, have the exact same problem.

SAME PROBLEM.

Yet, Metro isn't in those cities, or controlling all the aluminum there.

Being so incredibly stupid, that posting on here "how the warehouse works", when other warehouses, in other cities, that Metro does not control, HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.... means you are not mentally able to follow the logic of the argument. That reflects on you... not anyone else.

 

[Andylusion]

You shouldn't fear socialism:

"1. The Military/Defense - The United States military is the largest and most funded socialist program in the world. It operates thanks to our taxpayer dollars and protects the country as a whole. From the richest citizens to the homeless who sleep under the bridge. We are all protected by our military whether we pay taxes or not. This is complete socialism.

2. Highways/Roads - Those roads and highways you drive on every single day are completely taxpayer funded. Your tax dollars are used to maintain, expand, and preserve our highways and roads for every one's use. President Eisenhower was inspired by Germany's autobahn and implemented the idea right here in America. That's right, a republican president created our taxpayer funded, national highway system. This was a different time, before the republican party came down with a vicious case of rabies that never went away.

3. Public Libraries - Yes. That place where you go to check out books from conservative authors telling you how horrible socialism is, is in fact socialism. Libraries are taxpayer funded. You pay a few bucks to get a library card and you can read books for free for the rest of your life.

4. Police - Ever had a situation where you had to call the police? Then you have used a taxpayer funded socialist program. Anyone can call the police whether they pay taxes or not. They are there to protect and serve the community, not individuals. This is complete socialism on a state level, but still socialism all the same. Would you rather have to swipe your credit card before the police will help you?

5. Fire Dept. - Hopefully you have never had a fire in your home. But if you have, you probably called your local taxpayer-funded fire department to put the fire out. Like police, this is state socialism. You tax dollars are used to rescue your entire community in case of a fire."

75 Ways Socialism Has Improved America

Here's the difference. On a purely technical grounds.... Yes, the military is socialism.

A socialistic policy that we on the right, oppose, is the policies that try and change the economy, try and modify society.

Military does not do that. The military is economically neutral. It's there to protect the country as a whole. It's there to keep everyone, form the homeless beggar, to the rich CEO, safe. It provides for the "General Welfare". Not the welfare of one person, at the expense of the other.

Same with the Police and Fire Departments. Everyone benefits from the city not burning down, or over run with anarchy.

Roads and highways, same thing. Everyone benefits. It's not just rich, or just the political, or just whoever. Everyone benefits. Even the homeless beggar benefits from the charity food, delivered by truck to the shelter.

(by the way.... all the road around where I live were built by private money. So the claim isn't even true)

As for Libraries.... Are you telling me you don't buy anything? All the books in my house, I bought. Maybe the reason you seem to know so little is because you need to buy more books.

Back to the beginning, the problem with all of this is... if you total up all the expenses for all of these things, they are tiny tiny insignificant fraction of the tax cost.

The entire Library expenses for the whole state of Ohio, is $350 Million.
The total police spending for the state, including all jails, prisons, is $1.7 Billion.
The total cost of running the entire Ohio State government, including all courts, is $300 Million.
The total cost of the entire department of Transportation, all roads and bridges in the entire state, is $400 Million.

That totals up to $2.75 Billion dollars. How much is the Ohio State Budget? $30.57 Billion.

We could cut taxes by 90% and fund everything you outlined.

Similarly at the Federal level....

The DOD costs $673 Billion.
The DHS costs $55 Billion.
The DOJ costs $37 Billion.
The DOT costs $98 Billion.

Let's even toss in there, Veteran Affairs and Intelligence. That's another $192 Billion.

That total adds up to only one $1 Trillion.

The budget is $3.8 Trillion. The tax revenue is $2.9 Trillion. You could cut the budget to 27%, and cut taxes to 35%, and still cover MORE than what you suggest. Most of that DOT budget isn't going 'roads and bridges'.

All the rest of that tax money spent at the State and Federal level... that's all leftists socialists policies, blowing our money on crap. If you people didn't blow our money, we wouldn't be having this discussion, and all of us would be far more wealthy than we are today.

I sure would. I only made $18,000 last year, and I had to cough up $3,000 in taxes. Very little of that money went to Fire, Police, Roads and Bridges, Public Libraries, and military. I wouldn't be nearly as mad about it, if it did. But the fact is, most of it went to a bunch of stupid leftard crap.

Anyone paying you $18 a year is pissing his money away.
Buy a few more books (you won't appear homeschooled)

"Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding

"The Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding includes the monthly interest for:

"U.S. Treasury notes and bonds
Foreign and domestic series certificates of indebtedness, notes and bonds
Savings bonds
Government Account Series (GAS)
State and Local Government series (SLGs) and other special purpose securities.
Amortized discount or premium on bills, notes and bonds is also included in the monthly interest expense.

"The fiscal year represents the total interest expense on the Debt Outstanding for a given fiscal year. This includes the months of October through September. View current month details (XLS Format, File size 188KB, uploaded 04/04/2014).

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm

So you can't do math either? Really... you can't grasp this?

Everything in the Federal Budget that I outlined, totaled $1 Trillion.

Hey stupid.... we collect right now, $2.9 Trillion in taxes. If the total budget was $1 Trillion, and we collect $2.9 Trillion....... Can you not do math? Is 2.9 minus 1 too hard for you? Dude, if you don't have a calculator this difficult equation, punch "2.9 - 1" into google. Assume you have the intellectual ability for that.

There wouldn't be any debt under my system. We could pay off the debt, with the interest payments, in 9 years.

The only reason have debt now, is because of leftards like you in the past, spending more than we collect for your crap programs.

You are quickly proving that your not only too stupid to be in the conversation, but now you are turning into a clown to be mocked and laughed at as well.

 

[Andylusion]

Your claim that the textile industry depended on those thing is obviously false since somehow it managed to get along without slaver after the war. It manages to survive without high tariffs now.

Your concept "military savagery" is utterly meaningless.

Not to its victims:

"On September 8, 2000, the head of the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) formally apologized for the agency's participation in the 'ethnic cleansing' of Western tribes."

Population history of the indigenous peoples of the Americas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My claim was the textile industry depended on slave labor and high tariffs during its formation which it did. Capitalism thrives in climates of free labor and government protected monopolies.

What does that have to do with the textile industry?

BTW, the greatest slaughters of the Indians were perpetrated by General Sherman. You know, they guy Lincoln promoted to general and put in charge of laying waste to the Confederate states. Lincoln is one of your heroes, isn't he?

It has everything to do with textiles, that bad because it was private industry, which killed the Indians, and bought of Lincoln, which should have enacted high tariffs..........

Dude, this guy is clown. He's just a clown. Smile and nod, and laugh about it later.

 

[georgephillip]

Here's the difference. On a purely technical grounds.... Yes, the military is socialism.

A socialistic policy that we on the right, oppose, is the policies that try and change the economy, try and modify society.

Military does not do that. The military is economically neutral. It's there to protect the country as a whole. It's there to keep everyone, form the homeless beggar, to the rich CEO, safe. It provides for the "General Welfare". Not the welfare of one person, at the expense of the other.

Same with the Police and Fire Departments. Everyone benefits from the city not burning down, or over run with anarchy.

Roads and highways, same thing. Everyone benefits. It's not just rich, or just the political, or just whoever. Everyone benefits. Even the homeless beggar benefits from the charity food, delivered by truck to the shelter.

(by the way.... all the road around where I live were built by private money. So the claim isn't even true)

As for Libraries.... Are you telling me you don't buy anything? All the books in my house, I bought. Maybe the reason you seem to know so little is because you need to buy more books.

Back to the beginning, the problem with all of this is... if you total up all the expenses for all of these things, they are tiny tiny insignificant fraction of the tax cost.

The entire Library expenses for the whole state of Ohio, is $350 Million.
The total police spending for the state, including all jails, prisons, is $1.7 Billion.
The total cost of running the entire Ohio State government, including all courts, is $300 Million.
The total cost of the entire department of Transportation, all roads and bridges in the entire state, is $400 Million.

That totals up to $2.75 Billion dollars. How much is the Ohio State Budget? $30.57 Billion.

We could cut taxes by 90% and fund everything you outlined.

Similarly at the Federal level....

The DOD costs $673 Billion.
The DHS costs $55 Billion.
The DOJ costs $37 Billion.
The DOT costs $98 Billion.

Let's even toss in there, Veteran Affairs and Intelligence. That's another $192 Billion.

That total adds up to only one $1 Trillion.

The budget is $3.8 Trillion. The tax revenue is $2.9 Trillion. You could cut the budget to 27%, and cut taxes to 35%, and still cover MORE than what you suggest. Most of that DOT budget isn't going 'roads and bridges'.

All the rest of that tax money spent at the State and Federal level... that's all leftists socialists policies, blowing our money on crap. If you people didn't blow our money, we wouldn't be having this discussion, and all of us would be far more wealthy than we are today.

I sure would. I only made $18,000 last year, and I had to cough up $3,000 in taxes. Very little of that money went to Fire, Police, Roads and Bridges, Public Libraries, and military. I wouldn't be nearly as mad about it, if it did. But the fact is, most of it went to a bunch of stupid leftard crap.

Anyone paying you $18 a year is pissing his money away.
Buy a few more books (you won't appear homeschooled)

"Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding

"The Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding includes the monthly interest for:

"U.S. Treasury notes and bonds
Foreign and domestic series certificates of indebtedness, notes and bonds
Savings bonds
Government Account Series (GAS)
State and Local Government series (SLGs) and other special purpose securities.
Amortized discount or premium on bills, notes and bonds is also included in the monthly interest expense.

"The fiscal year represents the total interest expense on the Debt Outstanding for a given fiscal year. This includes the months of October through September. View current month details (XLS Format, File size 188KB, uploaded 04/04/2014).

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm

So you can't do math either? Really... you can't grasp this?

Everything in the Federal Budget that I outlined, totaled $1 Trillion.

Hey stupid.... we collect right now, $2.9 Trillion in taxes. If the total budget was $1 Trillion, and we collect $2.9 Trillion....... Can you not do math? Is 2.9 minus 1 too hard for you? Dude, if you don't have a calculator this difficult equation, punch "2.9 - 1" into google. Assume you have the intellectual ability for that.

There wouldn't be any debt under my system. We could pay off the debt, with the interest payments, in 9 years.

The only reason have debt now, is because of leftards like you in the past, spending more than we collect for your crap programs.

You are quickly proving that your not only too stupid to be in the conversation, but now you are turning into a clown to be mocked and laughed at as well.

"Everything in the Federal Budget I outlined totaled $1 trillion."
Only problem, Homeschool, the Federal Budget is $3.454 trillion.
The resulting deficit is because right-wing corporate tools, like you, would rather borrow from the rich than tax them

 

[georgephillip]

That's irrelevant. This is why people on the right, think people on the left are absolutely economically illiterate. Because you think what you posted there, made point. That's sad. Because it doesn't.

"Metro International Trade Services, one of the country’s biggest storers of the metal"

So.... ? You realize that Toyota is the biggest car makers in the world, right? Biggest profits, biggest unit sales, biggest capitalization. They are number one on the world market.

That means they can charge anything they want.... Right? Yet the Toyota Camry is priced almost exactly the same as the comparable Ford Fusion.

"More than a quarter of the supply of aluminum available on the market is kept in the company’s Detroit-area warehouses"

So... ? Again, they are still only 10% of the warehouses out there. Yes, they have 25% of the aluminum stored there. Doesn't matter. First, they don't OWN the aluminum. They are storing it. There's a difference. Second, simply storing it doesn't give them any control over the market. If they were to drive up their prices for storing the aluminum, the customers would move their stocks.

Within 5 minutes of where I live, there are two public storage places. If I had all my stuff at one, and they raised their rates, I would move my stuff to the other one that didn't.

Metro International Trade Services, only owns about 10% of the warehouses, that are listed on the London Metal Exchange. Those are just the 'official' warehouses. You can store your metal ANYWHERE.

Point being, one company owning a fraction of the warehouses, doesn't mean jack squat.

Look at this......

Aluminum Lines Still Trouble the London Metal Exchange - WSJ.com



If the problem was Metro International Trade Services, then why are long waits happening in other countries, like Netherlands, Malaysia, Belgium?

What's your excuse for how Goldman Sach, directing Metro to hold back deliveries, is magically causing warehouses on the other side of the planet, not connected at all with Metro, to have the same issue?

Or why are the Metro warehouses in Italy not having those problems?

Again... the ONLY reason we're having this discussion is because some idiot hates Goldman Sachs, and the lemmings are mindlessly following them.

If you have REAL evidence that Goldman Sachs has directly ordered Metro to deny service, post it. Bring them up on charges. But I highly doubt you people have anything in support, and that's why you keep posting meaningless crap, thinking it makes a point. "They store 25% of blaw blaw blaw" as if.

You wouldn't recognize real evidence; were you homeschooled?

"The story of how this works begins in 27 industrial warehouses in the Detroit area where a Goldman subsidiary stores customers’ aluminum.

"Each day, a fleet of trucks shuffles 1,500-pound bars of the metal among the warehouses.

"Two or three times a day, sometimes more, the drivers make the same circuits.

"They load in one warehouse.

"They unload in another.

"And then they do it again.

"This industrial dance has been choreographed by Goldman to exploit pricing regulations set up by an overseas commodities exchange, an investigation by The New York Times has found.

"The back-and-forth lengthens the storage time. And that adds many millions a year to the coffers of Goldman, which owns the warehouses and charges rent to store the metal.

"It also increases prices paid by manufacturers and consumers across the country.

"Tyler Clay, a forklift driver who worked at the Goldman warehouses until early this year, called the process 'a merry-go-round of metal.'

"Only a tenth of a cent or so of an aluminum can’s purchase price can be traced back to the strategy.

"But multiply that amount by the 90 billion aluminum cans consumed in the United States each year — and add the tons of aluminum used in things like cars, electronics and house siding — and the efforts by Goldman and other financial players has cost American consumers more than $5 billion over the last three years, say former industry executives, analysts and consultants."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/business/a-shuffle-of-aluminum-but-to-banks-pure-gold.html?_r=2&

You are quickly proving yourself too stupid to discuss this topic. First off, if you have to engage in personal attacks, that simply proves you don't have point.

Second, nothing you said changed anything I said.

All of that blaw blaw blaw you posted, doesn't change the fact that other cities, and other counties, have the exact same problem.

SAME PROBLEM.

Yet, Metro isn't in those cities, or controlling all the aluminum there.

Being so incredibly stupid, that posting on here "how the warehouse works", when other warehouses, in other cities, that Metro does not control, HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.... means you are not mentally able to follow the logic of the argument. That reflects on you... not anyone else.

Efforts by Goldman Sachs and other financial players have cost US consumers over $5 billion dollars over the past five years. Does that represent a PROBLEM in your mind?

 

[gnarlylove]

Efforts by Goldman Sachs and other financial players have cost US consumers over $5 billion dollars over the past five years. Does that represent a PROBLEM in your mind?

It is an appropriate question regarding AL but we know 5 billion is a hella under statement regarding their entire operations.

 

[georgephillip]

Efforts by Goldman Sachs and other financial players have cost US consumers over $5 billion dollars over the past five years. Does that represent a PROBLEM in your mind?

It is an appropriate question regarding AL but we know 5 billion is a hella under statement regarding their entire operations.

Here's a four minute example alleging the world's richest 300 individuals have more wealth than the poorest 3,000,000,000 individuals, and this systematic disparity has only worsened over the past five hundred years:

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Efforts by Goldman Sachs and other financial players have cost US consumers over $5 billion dollars over the past five years. Does that represent a PROBLEM in your mind?

It is an appropriate question regarding AL but we know 5 billion is a hella under statement regarding their entire operations.

Here's a four minute example alleging the world's richest 300 individuals have more wealth than the poorest 3,000,000,000 individuals, and this systematic disparity has only worsened over the past five hundred years:

Here's a four minute example alleging the world's richest 300 individuals have more wealth than the poorest 3,000,000,000 individuals,

People with very low productivity don't get paid very much.
Don't have much money left over to invest.

 

[bripat9643]

It is an appropriate question regarding AL but we know 5 billion is a hella under statement regarding their entire operations.

Here's a four minute example alleging the world's richest 300 individuals have more wealth than the poorest 3,000,000,000 individuals, and this systematic disparity has only worsened over the past five hundred years:

Here's a four minute example alleging the world's richest 300 individuals have more wealth than the poorest 3,000,000,000 individuals,

People with very low productivity don't get paid very much.
Don't have much money left over to invest.

Georgie would have us believe that the 3,000,000,000 are poor because the rich guys are hogging all the money. If they took all the money from the rich guys tomorrow and divided it up among the poor people, a year later they would still be poor. They might even be poorer.

 

[georgephillip]

Here's a four minute example alleging the world's richest 300 individuals have more wealth than the poorest 3,000,000,000 individuals, and this systematic disparity has only worsened over the past five hundred years:

Here's a four minute example alleging the world's richest 300 individuals have more wealth than the poorest 3,000,000,000 individuals,

People with very low productivity don't get paid very much.
Don't have much money left over to invest.

Georgie would have us believe that the 3,000,000,000 are poor because the rich guys are hogging all the money. If they took all the money from the rich guys tomorrow and divided it up among the poor people, a year later they would still be poor. They might even be poorer.

Two hundred years ago, rich countries were three times richer than developing countries.
At the end of the 1960s, rich countries were thirty-five times richer than poor ones.
Today, rich countries are 80 times richer.
Rich guys are hogging all the opportunity (and Hellfire Missiles)

 

[gnarlylove]

Efforts by Goldman Sachs and other financial players have cost US consumers over $5 billion dollars over the past five years. Does that represent a PROBLEM in your mind?

It is an appropriate question regarding AL but we know 5 billion is a hella under statement regarding their entire operations.

Here's a four minute example alleging the world's richest 300 individuals have more wealth than the poorest 3,000,000,000 individuals, and this systematic disparity has only worsened over the past five hundred years:

Exactly.

Androw does not ask how should we treat one another. His main concern is how can I get what I want? And he thinks everyone should ask that same question. Thus it doesn't make sense to debate about how the the world is or more specifically how the legal system is set up to prosecute the average Joe and let those at the top off virtually scott free. These are not operational thoughts in Androws limited perspective. So of course there is no problem with Goldman Sachs literally stealing through legalisms billions upon billions.

The example of disparity you mention demonstrates beyond a doubt that Democracy is fiction. There is an obvious master/slave dialectic that has seen progress at the same time of profound regression.

This balance of power has absolutely stultifying consequences for those born into an average life: one riddled with bouts of unemployment and therefore massive inefficiency on the part of capitalism to serve humanity. No one denies capitalism and global institutions directly serve affluence and by that token rob from the poor and throw them in jail.

Matt Taibbi, in an interview, notes how HBSC bank was involved in 850 million of narco trafficking. They spent 0 seconds in jail and continued in their positions. An average citizen carrying a joint in his pocket was sent to Rikers Island for 47 days. The federal prosecuter in this case identified HBSC as the wrong type of people to go to jail. Now how ******* convenient is that? This has been increasingly the case since the 70s. Crimes against humans are virtually unpunished as crimes against unjust laws are wildly punished.

Thus, according to Androw, we should go big or go home. He is insensitive to the fact that his life has few parallels with the rest of the world and how we are treated. Just because something is legal or costs a small fee does not make it in any form justified, moral or acceptable. We have a deeply entrenched criminal class that continually rob from the poor, whether it's subprime frauds or subsidies. And sadly this class dominates the political arena.

There is no justification for this. It is immoral and distasteful. However, it is the not that the people are immoral rather it's how the system is designed to **** the average human being so the rich can make more. It's a ******* travesty and because people like Androw do not engage with normal society, he has no sense of how people are effected by his transactions and those of major banks and corporations.

So the debate should not be how do we get a poor person to be well-off. No no no! The debate is how do we arrest this deeply immoral system and create one that benefits all humans--not one that lavishly rewards the affluent with ever great sums of entirely unnecessary, immoral, and unjustified maneuvers.

Watch The Daily Show with Jon Stewart: Matt Taibbi Online | Hulu

Matt Taibbi: U.S. Should Be Ashamed It Treats Pot Smokers Worse Than Wall St. Criminals

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Here's a four minute example alleging the world's richest 300 individuals have more wealth than the poorest 3,000,000,000 individuals,

People with very low productivity don't get paid very much.
Don't have much money left over to invest.

Georgie would have us believe that the 3,000,000,000 are poor because the rich guys are hogging all the money. If they took all the money from the rich guys tomorrow and divided it up among the poor people, a year later they would still be poor. They might even be poorer.

Two hundred years ago, rich countries were three times richer than developing countries.
At the end of the 1960s, rich countries were thirty-five times richer than poor ones.
Today, rich countries are 80 times richer.
Rich guys are hogging all the opportunity (and Hellfire Missiles)

Yeah, productivity, the gift that keeps on giving.
Don't worry, your big government buddies are trying to nip it in the bud.
If they do, those mean rich countries will be poor in no time.
That won't help the poor countries one bit, but you'll have to find a new "whining point".

 

[Andylusion]

You wouldn't recognize real evidence; were you homeschooled?

"The story of how this works begins in 27 industrial warehouses in the Detroit area where a Goldman subsidiary stores customers’ aluminum.

"Each day, a fleet of trucks shuffles 1,500-pound bars of the metal among the warehouses.

"Two or three times a day, sometimes more, the drivers make the same circuits.

"They load in one warehouse.

"They unload in another.

"And then they do it again.

"This industrial dance has been choreographed by Goldman to exploit pricing regulations set up by an overseas commodities exchange, an investigation by The New York Times has found.

"The back-and-forth lengthens the storage time. And that adds many millions a year to the coffers of Goldman, which owns the warehouses and charges rent to store the metal.

"It also increases prices paid by manufacturers and consumers across the country.

"Tyler Clay, a forklift driver who worked at the Goldman warehouses until early this year, called the process 'a merry-go-round of metal.'

"Only a tenth of a cent or so of an aluminum can’s purchase price can be traced back to the strategy.

"But multiply that amount by the 90 billion aluminum cans consumed in the United States each year — and add the tons of aluminum used in things like cars, electronics and house siding — and the efforts by Goldman and other financial players has cost American consumers more than $5 billion over the last three years, say former industry executives, analysts and consultants."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/business/a-shuffle-of-aluminum-but-to-banks-pure-gold.html?_r=2&

You are quickly proving yourself too stupid to discuss this topic. First off, if you have to engage in personal attacks, that simply proves you don't have point.

Second, nothing you said changed anything I said.

All of that blaw blaw blaw you posted, doesn't change the fact that other cities, and other counties, have the exact same problem.

SAME PROBLEM.

Yet, Metro isn't in those cities, or controlling all the aluminum there.

Being so incredibly stupid, that posting on here "how the warehouse works", when other warehouses, in other cities, that Metro does not control, HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.... means you are not mentally able to follow the logic of the argument. That reflects on you... not anyone else.

Efforts by Goldman Sachs and other financial players have cost US consumers over $5 billion dollars over the past five years. Does that represent a PROBLEM in your mind?

If you mean that by owning a business, they are making a profit off that business, that this is a problem... no, you are wrong. It's not a problem.

What's a problem is when they use the government, to regulate costs onto the consumer. That is a problem. I don't see Goldman Sachs pushing for bad regulations that drive up costs on consumers, as much as I see Democraps and LEFTIST pushing for regulations that drive up costs on consumers.

Now if you can actually make the claim that Goldman Sachs has in fact done something illegal, great. File your court brief. I look forward to seeing the convictions. And don't give me excuses for how "big companies own the government", because Skilling of Enron fame, is in prison.

Just put your money where your mouth is, and prove it.

But as for your claim that somehow Goldman Sachs has manipulated something or other, I'm sorry but you have to prove it first. The fact that other warehouses completely unconnected with Goldman Sachs, have the same problem, proves your theory false.

 

[Andylusion]

Efforts by Goldman Sachs and other financial players have cost US consumers over $5 billion dollars over the past five years. Does that represent a PROBLEM in your mind?

It is an appropriate question regarding AL but we know 5 billion is a hella under statement regarding their entire operations.

Here's a four minute example alleging the world's richest 300 individuals have more wealth than the poorest 3,000,000,000 individuals, and this systematic disparity has only worsened over the past five hundred years:

It's stuff like this that bugs the snot out of me. We as a nation, are so completely arrogant, and yet totally ignorant, that someone like you can post something like that, and have other people not laugh you off the forum.

The BBC, had recently a documentary "Notes from Kampala" in Uganda.

In this doc, they were covering a charity organization, that supplied music teaching, and instruments, to a free school in Uganda.

They had five base players, and one single base guitar. Ten piano players, and one piano. Not one student had ever seen a musical instrument before.

Here in America.... a popular musician (not named in the pod cast), said they were 'dirt poor' growing up. All they had was an old piano, and his uncle gave him a saxophone....... That's rich. If you can have a piano and a saxophone, you are rich.
BBC - Podcasts and Downloads - Documentaries
(You have to search for "notes from Kampala" and go to 37 Minutes into the podcast)

georgephillip... You are the rich.
gnarlylove... You are the rich.

You realize that someone earning just over $30,000 a year, is the top 1% of wage earners in the whole world?

But you people never demand that you yourself give to others. No no, it's always someone else. It always those "richer than you" people that should give.

Here's the kicker. Want who built the school, funds it's operation, and donated, and paid for delivery of all the instruments? Wanna guess? It wasn't the US government. It wasn't the UK government. It wasn't some leftist program. It certainly wasn't georgephillip or gnarlylove. Lord knows you guys didn't do jack shit.

It was rich people. What have you done? The rich people you keep bad mouthing, supplied all that charity to those Ugandan kids. What did you leftists do? How much money did Obama donate? Jack squat.

And in fact, most charity donations come from private individuals and companies. Again, what have you two contributed? What has Obama contributed other than class-warfare rhetoric?

If you leftists did half as much for people, as you blabber on about how others should do more, we wouldn't even need the rich to do charity.

 

[Andylusion]

Here's a four minute example alleging the world's richest 300 individuals have more wealth than the poorest 3,000,000,000 individuals,

People with very low productivity don't get paid very much.
Don't have much money left over to invest.

Georgie would have us believe that the 3,000,000,000 are poor because the rich guys are hogging all the money. If they took all the money from the rich guys tomorrow and divided it up among the poor people, a year later they would still be poor. They might even be poorer.

Two hundred years ago, rich countries were three times richer than developing countries.
At the end of the 1960s, rich countries were thirty-five times richer than poor ones.
Today, rich countries are 80 times richer.
Rich guys are hogging all the opportunity (and Hellfire Missiles)

Do you really think that saying something this stupid, is going fool us?

We've covered this already. I'm nearing the end to a book on Exxon, which is operating in Chad Africa. They setup a system were oil royalties are paid out to community development funds.

One of the things they did was build a hospital. Well.... locals came and looted the hospital, even taking the doors off the building, let alone the equipment which was then sold off on the black market.

Then they engaged in Micro-Lending. They loaned out all this money to the locals, who then purchased smokes and a local brand of whiskey, and defaulted on their loans.

Just like I pointed out last time you said this stupidity, it's not about rich doing this or that. It's about culture, and economic choice. Its about people who invest their money, into growing more money, verse people who consume their money, and it's gone.

I pointed this out before, and if you want the links again, I'll post them. A lady in Canada won $10 Million dollars, and in under 10 years, was completely bankrupt. All the money gone.

Steve Jobs got $5 Million, invested it into Pixar, made it into a box office hit making movie company, and earned $5 Billion for it.

The reason why rich countries are rich, and poor countries are poor, is the same reason rich people end up rich, and poor people end up poor. Poor people, and poor countries, end up consuming their wealth. Rich people, and rich countries, invest their wealth into making more wealth.

PinBall people verese the Beer Pong people. Warren Buffet invest his high school earnings into a pinball machine, that earned him more money. Most high school students when I was there, bought a keg of beer and played beer pong.

All this "rich people are denying other countries opportunity".... really?

Explain Brazil then. Explain South Korea. Explain China, India and Turkey?

Is the all powerful rich people, losing their ability to prevent opportunity in those places?

Explain how we have all these people in our country that end up rich?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/7-self-made-immigrant-millionaires.html?page=all

Josie Natori. Came here from the Philippines. Runs her own company now. "There is no better place in the world for an immigrant to succeed than in the U.S. Follow your dream and make it happen."

Lowell Hawthorne. Came here from Jamaica. Owns his own business.
"Anybody can achieve the American dream. You've got to be focused, educated, have discipline, and just go for it."

Shama Kabani. Came here from India. Father drove a Taxi. Owns her own business. "I saw them work hard and doubly so because they were in a new country trying to adjust. They worked very long hours"

All of these people came here with nearly nothing, and made millions.

What happened? I thought the rich had all the opportunity locked out? I thought they couldn't succeed because evil Walmart, and Goldman Sachs was holding them down?

Thankfully they didn't get your stupid leftardian memo, and went out there and succeeded.

 

[georgephillip]

Georgie would have us believe that the 3,000,000,000 are poor because the rich guys are hogging all the money. If they took all the money from the rich guys tomorrow and divided it up among the poor people, a year later they would still be poor. They might even be poorer.

Two hundred years ago, rich countries were three times richer than developing countries.
At the end of the 1960s, rich countries were thirty-five times richer than poor ones.
Today, rich countries are 80 times richer.
Rich guys are hogging all the opportunity (and Hellfire Missiles)

Do you really think that saying something this stupid, is going fool us?

We've covered this already. I'm nearing the end to a book on Exxon, which is operating in Chad Africa. They setup a system were oil royalties are paid out to community development funds.

One of the things they did was build a hospital. Well.... locals came and looted the hospital, even taking the doors off the building, let alone the equipment which was then sold off on the black market.

Then they engaged in Micro-Lending. They loaned out all this money to the locals, who then purchased smokes and a local brand of whiskey, and defaulted on their loans.

Just like I pointed out last time you said this stupidity, it's not about rich doing this or that. It's about culture, and economic choice. Its about people who invest their money, into growing more money, verse people who consume their money, and it's gone.

I pointed this out before, and if you want the links again, I'll post them. A lady in Canada won $10 Million dollars, and in under 10 years, was completely bankrupt. All the money gone.

Steve Jobs got $5 Million, invested it into Pixar, made it into a box office hit making movie company, and earned $5 Billion for it.

The reason why rich countries are rich, and poor countries are poor, is the same reason rich people end up rich, and poor people end up poor. Poor people, and poor countries, end up consuming their wealth. Rich people, and rich countries, invest their wealth into making more wealth.

PinBall people verese the Beer Pong people. Warren Buffet invest his high school earnings into a pinball machine, that earned him more money. Most high school students when I was there, bought a keg of beer and played beer pong.

All this "rich people are denying other countries opportunity".... really?

Explain Brazil then. Explain South Korea. Explain China, India and Turkey?

Is the all powerful rich people, losing their ability to prevent opportunity in those places?

Explain how we have all these people in our country that end up rich?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/7-self-made-immigrant-millionaires.html?page=all

Josie Natori. Came here from the Philippines. Runs her own company now. "There is no better place in the world for an immigrant to succeed than in the U.S. Follow your dream and make it happen."

Lowell Hawthorne. Came here from Jamaica. Owns his own business.
"Anybody can achieve the American dream. You've got to be focused, educated, have discipline, and just go for it."

Shama Kabani. Came here from India. Father drove a Taxi. Owns her own business. "I saw them work hard and doubly so because they were in a new country trying to adjust. They worked very long hours"

All of these people came here with nearly nothing, and made millions.

What happened? I thought the rich had all the opportunity locked out? I thought they couldn't succeed because evil Walmart, and Goldman Sachs was holding them down?

Thankfully they didn't get your stupid leftardian memo, and went out there and succeeded.

Tell your Exxon pals in Chad to pay their taxes:

"N'DJAMENA, March 11 (Reuters) - An ExxonMobil-led consortium in Chad is seeking an out-of-court settlement after the government filed a legal claim for more than $800 million in unpaid taxes, finance ministry sources said on Tuesday.

"The Central African government on March 3 filed a legal claim for 396 billion CFA francs ($837.90 million) in royalties from the consortium which also includes Chevron and Petronas.

"A representative for the Exxon consortium in the country declined to give an immediate comment. ExxonMobil's press service in Houston could not immediately be reached for comment."

Over the past forty years the global rich have bribed politicians from Chad to DC to borrow from the rich instead of taxing them and then relying on private charity to address all the negative externalities corporations depend upon to generate their quarterly profits.

You need to broaden your reading if you're honestly confused about how wealth and income have been redistributed upward over the last four decades.

ExxonMobil seeks settlement in $800 mln Chad tax dispute -sources | Reuters

 

[Andylusion]

Two hundred years ago, rich countries were three times richer than developing countries.
At the end of the 1960s, rich countries were thirty-five times richer than poor ones.
Today, rich countries are 80 times richer.
Rich guys are hogging all the opportunity (and Hellfire Missiles)

Do you really think that saying something this stupid, is going fool us?

We've covered this already. I'm nearing the end to a book on Exxon, which is operating in Chad Africa. They setup a system were oil royalties are paid out to community development funds.

One of the things they did was build a hospital. Well.... locals came and looted the hospital, even taking the doors off the building, let alone the equipment which was then sold off on the black market.

Then they engaged in Micro-Lending. They loaned out all this money to the locals, who then purchased smokes and a local brand of whiskey, and defaulted on their loans.

Just like I pointed out last time you said this stupidity, it's not about rich doing this or that. It's about culture, and economic choice. Its about people who invest their money, into growing more money, verse people who consume their money, and it's gone.

I pointed this out before, and if you want the links again, I'll post them. A lady in Canada won $10 Million dollars, and in under 10 years, was completely bankrupt. All the money gone.

Steve Jobs got $5 Million, invested it into Pixar, made it into a box office hit making movie company, and earned $5 Billion for it.

The reason why rich countries are rich, and poor countries are poor, is the same reason rich people end up rich, and poor people end up poor. Poor people, and poor countries, end up consuming their wealth. Rich people, and rich countries, invest their wealth into making more wealth.

PinBall people verese the Beer Pong people. Warren Buffet invest his high school earnings into a pinball machine, that earned him more money. Most high school students when I was there, bought a keg of beer and played beer pong.

All this "rich people are denying other countries opportunity".... really?

Explain Brazil then. Explain South Korea. Explain China, India and Turkey?

Is the all powerful rich people, losing their ability to prevent opportunity in those places?

Explain how we have all these people in our country that end up rich?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/7-self-made-immigrant-millionaires.html?page=all

Josie Natori. Came here from the Philippines. Runs her own company now. "There is no better place in the world for an immigrant to succeed than in the U.S. Follow your dream and make it happen."

Lowell Hawthorne. Came here from Jamaica. Owns his own business.
"Anybody can achieve the American dream. You've got to be focused, educated, have discipline, and just go for it."

Shama Kabani. Came here from India. Father drove a Taxi. Owns her own business. "I saw them work hard and doubly so because they were in a new country trying to adjust. They worked very long hours"

All of these people came here with nearly nothing, and made millions.

What happened? I thought the rich had all the opportunity locked out? I thought they couldn't succeed because evil Walmart, and Goldman Sachs was holding them down?

Thankfully they didn't get your stupid leftardian memo, and went out there and succeeded.

Tell your Exxon pals in Chad to pay their taxes:

"N'DJAMENA, March 11 (Reuters) - An ExxonMobil-led consortium in Chad is seeking an out-of-court settlement after the government filed a legal claim for more than $800 million in unpaid taxes, finance ministry sources said on Tuesday.

"The Central African government on March 3 filed a legal claim for 396 billion CFA francs ($837.90 million) in royalties from the consortium which also includes Chevron and Petronas.

"A representative for the Exxon consortium in the country declined to give an immediate comment. ExxonMobil's press service in Houston could not immediately be reached for comment."

Over the past forty years the global rich have bribed politicians from Chad to DC to borrow from the rich instead of taxing them and then relying on private charity to address all the negative externalities corporations depend upon to generate their quarterly profits.

You need to broaden your reading if you're honestly confused about how wealth and income have been redistributed upward over the last four decades.

ExxonMobil seeks settlement in $800 mln Chad tax dispute -sources | Reuters

That's another thing. If you had actually read the book, it details how, especially in Africa where corruption is rampant, governments routinely file claims of unpaid taxes all the time, hoping something will stick. But of course, making sarcastic remarks, instead of reading, is much easier for a leftist.

And by the way, that's not to say that Exxon hasn't made mistakes too. The difference is, when people like you make a mistake and owe taxes, you say "it's just a mistake". When Exxon or any other big company makes a mistake, you automatically assume intentional deception.

How many Democraps in government have ended up owing tons of taxes? The vast majority by far.

Of course it doesn't help that are tax laws are so unbelievably convoluted and crazy, that even CPAs, hire professional tax accountants do their own taxes.

But of course if taxes were simple, then companies wouldn't make mistakes, and then you wouldn't have something stupid to b!tch about.

OF COURSE....... Absolutely nothing you said, changes the facts of my post. You basically admitted you lost the argument, by tossing in a sudden topic change. Does Exxon not paying tax (assuming it's true) change the fact that the hospital built with royalties was looted? Nope. Does it change the failure of the micro-lending, because people bought smokes and beer with the money? Nope. So what was the point? It was a pathetic attempt at a topic change, to dodge the fact you just lost the argument.

 

[KNB]

Corporations like Exxon lobbied Congress to write the tax code to be convoluted and crazy so that they could exploit as many hidden loopholes as possible. Poor people didn't write the tax code.

Corporations aren't "making mistakes" when they don't pay taxes. It is done intentionally to keep as much money for the corporation as possible. It is all very meticulous, which is why corporations like Exxon have entire teams of tax lawyers dedicated to revealing and exploiting as many of loopholes as possible.

 

[Andylusion]

Corporations like Exxon lobbied Congress to write the tax code to be convoluted and crazy so that they could exploit as many hidden loopholes as possible. Poor people didn't write the tax code.

Corporations aren't "making mistakes" when they don't pay taxes. It is done intentionally to keep as much money for the corporation as possible. It is all very meticulous, which is why corporations like Exxon have entire teams of tax lawyers dedicated to revealing and exploiting as many of loopholes as possible.

You just proved my whole point. You have no idea what happened, no idea what tax laws exist in Chad, no idea what international tax laws there are.... you know absolutely nothing at all about the situation.

You know absolutely NOTHING about the situation the people or the laws, and yet instantly presume guilt automatically.

Thank you very very much. You just provided absolute proof of what I was saying.

Back to the Tax Code.....

Actually... that's not true. Unless your definition of 'poor people' is limited to those below the poverty level, then perhaps.

The first organized lobby effort, was by universities. They pushed for charitable donations to be tax deductible, because when FDR made the 70% income tax, charitable donations to colleges and universities fell like a rock.

Similarly, most of the deductions that exist, were pushed for by middle class and small business.