Capital Punishment - Right or Wrong?

[Big Black Dog]

I guess Im not well versed on the prison life.. but to me.. just being somewhere where I dont have freedoms to do what I want is punishment. They cannot see their families whenever they want...

How would you think the person that was murdered might feel if he/she was able to do so? We're forgetting one very important thing here. The person that was killed in the commission of a crime has been greatly inconvienced if not worse. Do we completely forget this fact so we don't make it difficult on the person who committed the crime?

[What about all the rest of them? The ones that WERE innocent?

My father used to tell me that everybody in prison always swore that they were innocent... I think not. While I do agree with you that from time to time an innocent person is arrested, conviceted and sent to prison and maybe even death row but that is far more the exception rather than the rule. There are 1000's of people on death row. I don't think justice is served by not executing those on death row just because 1 of those 1000 people may be innocent. You can bet that the 1 in a 1000 guys that is actually innocent is not what you would call a "model" citizen. What about the rights of the people that were murdered? Don't they count or once they have been killed do they suddenly become a non-issue?

 

[The Illusion]

How would you think the person that was murdered might feel if he/she was able to do so? We're forgetting one very important thing here. The person that was killed in the commission of a crime has been greatly inconvienced if not worse. Do we completely forget this fact so we don't make it difficult on the person who committed the crime?



My father used to tell me that everybody in prison always swore that they were innocent... I think not. While I do agree with you that from time to time an innocent person is arrested, conviceted and sent to prison and maybe even death row but that is far more the exception rather than the rule. There are 1000's of people on death row. I don't think justice is served by not executing those on death row just because 1 of those 1000 people may be innocent. You can bet that the 1 in a 1000 guys that is actually innocent is not what you would call a "model" citizen. What about the rights of the people that were murdered? Don't they count or once they have been killed do they suddenly become a non-issue?

You cannot forget that 1 in 1000 person tho. If they are innocent and are put to death....that is murder and the judge that convicted him should also be murdered. That 1 in a 1000 people has a voice too. This is why the death penalty is wrong also. The government says that we cant kill people...yet they are able to kill people. What is that saying to our youth? That its ok for the government to do something but its not ok for common folk to do it? That just leads to rebellion and more killing.

Jamie

 

[Bfgrn]

I guess Im not well versed on the prison life.. but to me.. just being somewhere where I dont have freedoms to do what I want is punishment. They cannot see their families whenever they want...

How would you think the person that was murdered might feel if he/she was able to do so? We're forgetting one very important thing here. The person that was killed in the commission of a crime has been greatly inconvienced if not worse. Do we completely forget this fact so we don't make it difficult on the person who committed the crime?

[What about all the rest of them? The ones that WERE innocent?

My father used to tell me that everybody in prison always swore that they were innocent... I think not. While I do agree with you that from time to time an innocent person is arrested, conviceted and sent to prison and maybe even death row but that is far more the exception rather than the rule. There are 1000's of people on death row. I don't think justice is served by not executing those on death row just because 1 of those 1000 people may be innocent. You can bet that the 1 in a 1000 guys that is actually innocent is not what you would call a "model" citizen. What about the rights of the people that were murdered? Don't they count or once they have been killed do they suddenly become a non-issue?

HOW can you possibly justify executing an innocent person...YOU need to be willing to take his place you moron...



Cameron Todd Willingham was executed on February 17, 2004, for setting fire to his own one-story home, a blaze that killed his three young daughters (1-year-old twins and their 2-year-old sister). Willingham was convicted and sent to death row on a hastily executed arson investigation and jurors suspicion over the fact that he managed to escape the fire himself. But he maintained his innocence for years, right until he was strapped to the gurney.

"I am an innocent man, convicted of a crime I did not commit, he said in his final statement. "I have been persecuted for 12 years for something I did not do."

Ten months later, on Dec. 9, 2004, the Chicago Tribune published an investigative article that cast serious doubt on Willingham's guilt.

"While Texas authorities dismissed his protests, a Tribune investigation of his case shows that Willingham was prosecuted and convicted based primarily on arson theories that have since been repudiated by scientific advances," wrote staff reporters Steve Mills and Maurice Possley. "According to four fire experts consulted by the Tribune, the original investigation was flawed, and it is even possible the fire was accidental."

Among the experts was Louisiana Fire Chief Kendall Ryland, who said it "made me sick to think this guy was executed based on this investigation. They executed this guy, and they've just got no idea -- at least not scientifically -- if he set the fire, or if the fire was even intentionally set."

"Did anybody know about this prior to his execution?" asked Dorinda Brokofsky, one of the jurors who sent him to die. "Now I will have to live with this for the rest of my life. Maybe this man was innocent."

200 Executions and Counting: Texas Gov. Rick Perry's Cruel Death Tally | Rights and Liberties | AlterNet

 

[Neser Boha]

Capital Punishment - Right or Wrong?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Capital Punishment is Wrong. It is wrong in many ways. It is wrong because it lets the person off without having to suffer consequences of their actions. It is wrong because of the cost. It is wrong for moral reasons. It is wrong to kill anyone according to some religious doctrines. It is wrong to put someone through the torment of knowing they are going to die. It is just simply wrong.

If people had to sit out life sentences behind bars, they would be punished properly because every day that went by they would have to think about why they were in that situation and they would have to deal with their own guilt - if they have any.

If people are worried about the cost of incarceration for that long, they need to think about what these people behind bars have to do to pay back society.. like working for cents on a dollar to produce mass quantities of items that the general public uses. I will not accept the argument that it costs more to have a person in prison for life because that person is working their a** off for basically free to produce some products that you and I use on a daily basis. Its called the prison industry.

Jamie

I completely disagree. I think we should go back to public hangings. I also think the punishment should be much quicker than what it is on death row these days. The world has become a very dangerous place. Maybe some public hangings would help put an end to this. A life of hanging out in prison is too costly. Let's free up some of that prison space. Hang them. Fry them. Gas them. Shoot them. I'd even go for chopping off their heads. This injection crap is too easy. We need to make an example out of these criminal assholes. I wonder if you would have the same liberal opinion if a close member of your family was murdered?

I think that the fact that Sunni Man was the only one that thanked you says it all...

 

[RadiomanATL]

I guess Im not well versed on the prison life.. but to me.. just being somewhere where I dont have freedoms to do what I want is punishment. They cannot see their families whenever they want...

How would you think the person that was murdered might feel if he/she was able to do so? We're forgetting one very important thing here. The person that was killed in the commission of a crime has been greatly inconvienced if not worse. Do we completely forget this fact so we don't make it difficult on the person who committed the crime?

[What about all the rest of them? The ones that WERE innocent?

My father used to tell me that everybody in prison always swore that they were innocent... I think not. While I do agree with you that from time to time an innocent person is arrested, conviceted and sent to prison and maybe even death row but that is far more the exception rather than the rule. There are 1000's of people on death row. I don't think justice is served by not executing those on death row just because 1 of those 1000 people may be innocent. You can bet that the 1 in a 1000 guys that is actually innocent is not what you would call a "model" citizen. What about the rights of the people that were murdered? Don't they count or once they have been killed do they suddenly become a non-issue?

There is no justification for executing an innocent person. None. I don't care if it's 1 in 1,000 or 1 in 1,000,000.

 

[Big Black Dog]

You cannot forget that 1 in 1000 person tho. If they are innocent and are put to death....that is murder and the judge that convicted him should also be murdered. That 1 in a 1000 people has a voice too. This is why the death penalty is wrong also. The government says that we cant kill people...yet they are able to kill people. What is that saying to our youth? That its ok for the government to do something but its not ok for common folk to do it? That just leads to rebellion and more killing.

I guess we have to agree to disagree... Don't misunderstand me. I believe that if a person is proven to the point that there can be no mistake about him/her killing another human being the death penalty should be used and carried out quickly. None of this appeals stuff that goes on for years. If you're guilty. You're guilty. There are mistakes made in everything you do in life. I can't think of anything that does not have some element of the possibility of an error. When those errors happen, although it is sad, it should not prevent the use of the death penalty in cases that rate it. I appreciate your point of view. I just disagree with you. It's the flip side of the coin. Who knows, you might be right but deep in my heart, and from what I have learned in life, I cannot agree with you. I'm sure you feel the same way about your views... For now, I believe the death penalty is a good thing and should be continued and used as a means to thwart crime - at least until something better comes along. To me, that something better is not life in prison.

 

[Liability]

Capital Punishment is Wrong. It is wrong in many ways. It is wrong because it lets the person off without having to suffer consequences of their actions. It is wrong because of the cost. It is wrong for moral reasons. It is wrong to kill anyone according to some religious doctrines. It is wrong to put someone through the torment of knowing they are going to die. It is just simply wrong.

If people had to sit out life sentences behind bars, they would be punished properly because every day that went by they would have to think about why they were in that situation and they would have to deal with their own guilt - if they have any.

If people are worried about the cost of incarceration for that long, they need to think about what these people behind bars have to do to pay back society.. like working for cents on a dollar to produce mass quantities of items that the general public uses. I will not accept the argument that it costs more to have a person in prison for life because that person is working their a** off for basically free to produce some products that you and I use on a daily basis. Its called the prison industry.

Jamie

It is ALWAYS wrong (albeit not always avoidable) to execute the innocent.

It is not necessarily wrong to execute the guilty (depending on the crime, of course).

My own belief boils down to this. I would lose little or no sleep if our society decided that we would no longer permit executions as a form of sentencing. On the other hand, when some jackass is already serving a multiple life sentence, there isn't a whole lot hanging over his head at that point to prevent him from killing a corrections officer or a fellow inmate unless he has SOME reason to know that we can put him down. My willingness to accept a "death penalty" is founded mostly on the notion that we should endorse some form of self-protection.

An execution will indeed prevent that one murderer from killing again.

 

[The Illusion]

You cannot forget that 1 in 1000 person tho. If they are innocent and are put to death....that is murder and the judge that convicted him should also be murdered. That 1 in a 1000 people has a voice too. This is why the death penalty is wrong also. The government says that we cant kill people...yet they are able to kill people. What is that saying to our youth? That its ok for the government to do something but its not ok for common folk to do it? That just leads to rebellion and more killing.

I guess we have to agree to disagree... Don't misunderstand me. I believe that if a person is proven to the point that there can be no mistake about him/her killing another human being the death penalty should be used and carried out quickly. None of this appeals stuff that goes on for years. If you're guilty. You're guilty. There are mistakes made in everything you do in life. I can't think of anything that does not have some element of the possibility of an error. When those errors happen, although it is sad, it should not prevent the use of the death penalty in cases that rate it. I appreciate your point of view. I just disagree with you. It's the flip side of the coin. Who knows, you might be right but deep in my heart, and from what I have learned in life, I cannot agree with you. I'm sure you feel the same way about your views... For now, I believe the death penalty is a good thing and should be continued and used as a means to thwart crime - at least until something better comes along. To me, that something better is not life in prison.

Fair Enough

Jamie

 

[Neser Boha]

There are 1000's of people on death row. I don't think justice is served by not executing those on death row just because 1 of those 1000 people may be innocent. You can bet that the 1 in a 1000 guys that is actually innocent is not what you would call a "model" citizen. What about the rights of the people that were murdered? Don't they count or once they have been killed do they suddenly become a non-issue?

Seriously? Would you be willing to execute an innocent man simply because he obviously wasn't a "model citizen" anyway? Is that also your dad's view?

Wow...

 

[alan1]

I disagree with the death penalty for a few reasons:

1) There is the possibility in many cases that the person is innocent. You can release someone from prison, but you can't undeath them. If the government has the power to legally, if accidentally, take away someone's life then that is not a power the government needs.

2) The cost. The cost of executing someone is much higher than throwing them in prison for life with no possibility of parole. The lawyers, the appeals, the stays, the boilerplate lawsuits etc. all come out of the taxpayers pocket.

3) It is not a deterrent. Anyone who argues that it is is not living in reality.

Now, I do believe that we need to hand down the punishment of life in prison with no parole a heck of a lot more often than we do. A LOT more. Put it this way, in my book anyone convicted of murder wouldn't be getting out of prison. Ever. And prisons need to be much less pleasant a place than they are. No TV's, no gyms, no socializing with other prisoners, no libraries. I want them miserable and caged.

Point #2 is a classic logical fallacy.
The cost of executing is not more than the cost of housing them for a life sentence. The cost of court appeals may be, but that is a totally different cost.

 

[alan1]

Capital Punishment - Right or Wrong?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Capital Punishment is Wrong. It is wrong in many ways. It is wrong because it lets the person off without having to suffer consequences of their actions. It is wrong because of the cost. It is wrong for moral reasons. It is wrong to kill anyone according to some religious doctrines. It is wrong to put someone through the torment of knowing they are going to die. It is just simply wrong.

If people had to sit out life sentences behind bars, they would be punished properly because every day that went by they would have to think about why they were in that situation and they would have to deal with their own guilt - if they have any.

If people are worried about the cost of incarceration for that long, they need to think about what these people behind bars have to do to pay back society.. like working for cents on a dollar to produce mass quantities of items that the general public uses. I will not accept the argument that it costs more to have a person in prison for life because that person is working their a** off for basically free to produce some products that you and I use on a daily basis. Its called the prison industry.

Jamie

I completely disagree. I think we should go back to public hangings. I also think the punishment should be much quicker than what it is on death row these days. The world has become a very dangerous place. Maybe some public hangings would help put an end to this. A life of hanging out in prison is too costly. Let's free up some of that prison space. Hang them. Fry them. Gas them. Shoot them. I'd even go for chopping off their heads. This injection crap is too easy. We need to make an example out of these criminal assholes. I wonder if you would have the same liberal opinion if a close member of your family was murdered?

I think that the fact that Sunni Man was the only one that thanked you says it all...

Yeah, I pos repped him for it. Now I am going to go back and thank him for the post to.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I disagree with the death penalty for a few reasons:

1) There is the possibility in many cases that the person is innocent. You can release someone from prison, but you can't undeath them. If the government has the power to legally, if accidentally, take away someone's life then that is not a power the government needs.

2) The cost. The cost of executing someone is much higher than throwing them in prison for life with no possibility of parole. The lawyers, the appeals, the stays, the boilerplate lawsuits etc. all come out of the taxpayers pocket.

3) It is not a deterrent. Anyone who argues that it is is not living in reality.

Now, I do believe that we need to hand down the punishment of life in prison with no parole a heck of a lot more often than we do. A LOT more. Put it this way, in my book anyone convicted of murder wouldn't be getting out of prison. Ever. And prisons need to be much less pleasant a place than they are. No TV's, no gyms, no socializing with other prisoners, no libraries. I want them miserable and caged.

That I would be on board with.

Along those lines, if the death penalty were to continue, do away with lethal injection. Bring back the old ways.

 

[Neser Boha]

You know... I've been struggling with this issue myself... At first I was a huge opponent of the death penalty... Now? I don't know. While reading of some especially heinous crimes, I read about some really fucked up people with no conscience, willing to kill for their own sick pleasure or convenience... psychopaths... extreme narcissists, etc. --> real dangers to our society. If one's gonna argue that the people sitting on a death row are people that endanger our society and individuals, then everyone that's a proven psychopath should also be done away with, right?

Or maybe not... it's not the psychopath's fault that he's a psychopath.... right? It's not anyone's fault that they have blue eyes or is it?

However, reading of a 7 year old getting raped and quartered makes me want to disembowel the perpetrator with my bare hands...

I'm conflicted... One thing is for sure though... the prison should be a place even the most fucked up bastards are terrified of...

 

[alan1]

I think that the fact that Sunni Man was the only one that thanked you says it all...

P.S.
I repped Sunni Man also.

 

[The Illusion]

You know... I've been struggling with this issue myself... At first I was a huge opponent of the death penalty... Now? I don't know. While reading of some especially heinous crimes, I read about some really fucked up people with no conscience, willing to kill for their own sick pleasure or convenience... psychopaths... extreme narcissists, etc. --> real dangers to our society. If one's gonna argue that the people sitting on a death row are people that endanger our society and individuals, then everyone that's a proven psychopath should also be done away with, right?

Or maybe not... it's not the psychopath's fault that he's a psychopath.... right? It's not anyone's fault that they have blue eyes or is it?

However, reading of a 7 year old getting raped and quartered makes me want to disembowel the perpetrator with my bare hands...

I'm conflicted... One thing is for sure though... the prison should be a place even the most fucked up bastards are terrified of...

It was hard for me to choose at first too... until one of my family members got murdered. I wanted the f'er to live in torment.. but if he wouldnt be living in torment...there would be no point to it.

Jamie

 

[Neser Boha]

I think that the fact that Sunni Man was the only one that thanked you says it all...

P.S.
I repped Sunni Man also.

Oh... now you made me cry...

Just like in middle school, huh?

 

[RadiomanATL]

I disagree with the death penalty for a few reasons:

1) There is the possibility in many cases that the person is innocent. You can release someone from prison, but you can't undeath them. If the government has the power to legally, if accidentally, take away someone's life then that is not a power the government needs.

2) The cost. The cost of executing someone is much higher than throwing them in prison for life with no possibility of parole. The lawyers, the appeals, the stays, the boilerplate lawsuits etc. all come out of the taxpayers pocket.

3) It is not a deterrent. Anyone who argues that it is is not living in reality.

Now, I do believe that we need to hand down the punishment of life in prison with no parole a heck of a lot more often than we do. A LOT more. Put it this way, in my book anyone convicted of murder wouldn't be getting out of prison. Ever. And prisons need to be much less pleasant a place than they are. No TV's, no gyms, no socializing with other prisoners, no libraries. I want them miserable and caged.

Point #2 is a classic logical fallacy.
The cost of executing is not more than the cost of housing them for a life sentence. The cost of court appeals may be, but that is a totally different cost.

Not a logical fallacy unless you can show that it is the norm to have an execution WITHOUT appeals.

It's all rolled into one. It's intellectually dishonest to seperate them.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Capital Punishment is Wrong. It is wrong in many ways. It is wrong because it lets the person off without having to suffer consequences of their actions. It is wrong because of the cost. It is wrong for moral reasons. It is wrong to kill anyone according to some religious doctrines. It is wrong to put someone through the torment of knowing they are going to die. It is just simply wrong.

If people had to sit out life sentences behind bars, they would be punished properly because every day that went by they would have to think about why they were in that situation and they would have to deal with their own guilt - if they have any.

If people are worried about the cost of incarceration for that long, they need to think about what these people behind bars have to do to pay back society.. like working for cents on a dollar to produce mass quantities of items that the general public uses. I will not accept the argument that it costs more to have a person in prison for life because that person is working their a** off for basically free to produce some products that you and I use on a daily basis. Its called the prison industry.

Jamie

Suicide is fine though right? How about we put them in a cell with a rope and a bar to hang it from and lock the door and not come back for 40 days? That would be ok though right? I mean you do not care why someone kills them self after all.

 

[The Illusion]

Capital Punishment is Wrong. It is wrong in many ways. It is wrong because it lets the person off without having to suffer consequences of their actions. It is wrong because of the cost. It is wrong for moral reasons. It is wrong to kill anyone according to some religious doctrines. It is wrong to put someone through the torment of knowing they are going to die. It is just simply wrong.

If people had to sit out life sentences behind bars, they would be punished properly because every day that went by they would have to think about why they were in that situation and they would have to deal with their own guilt - if they have any.

If people are worried about the cost of incarceration for that long, they need to think about what these people behind bars have to do to pay back society.. like working for cents on a dollar to produce mass quantities of items that the general public uses. I will not accept the argument that it costs more to have a person in prison for life because that person is working their a** off for basically free to produce some products that you and I use on a daily basis. Its called the prison industry.

Jamie

Suicide is fine though right? How about we put them in a cell with a rope and a bar to hang it from and lock the door and not come back for 40 days? That would be ok though right? I mean you do not care why someone kills them self after all.

Hell yes. If they feel that they've commited a crime so haneous that they want to commit suicide over it..fine by me. They are the ones that have to endure going through with it... if not they have to go to the hole.

Personally, Id rather see them suffer but since the prisons are 5 star hotels...committing suicide is fine by me. I hope its painful for them at least.

Jamie

 

[RadiomanATL]

Capital Punishment is Wrong. It is wrong in many ways. It is wrong because it lets the person off without having to suffer consequences of their actions. It is wrong because of the cost. It is wrong for moral reasons. It is wrong to kill anyone according to some religious doctrines. It is wrong to put someone through the torment of knowing they are going to die. It is just simply wrong.

If people had to sit out life sentences behind bars, they would be punished properly because every day that went by they would have to think about why they were in that situation and they would have to deal with their own guilt - if they have any.

If people are worried about the cost of incarceration for that long, they need to think about what these people behind bars have to do to pay back society.. like working for cents on a dollar to produce mass quantities of items that the general public uses. I will not accept the argument that it costs more to have a person in prison for life because that person is working their a** off for basically free to produce some products that you and I use on a daily basis. Its called the prison industry.

Jamie

Suicide is fine though right? How about we put them in a cell with a rope and a bar to hang it from and lock the door and not come back for 40 days? That would be ok though right? I mean you do not care why someone kills them self after all.

Fine by me. In that case the government is not taking the person's life, it's the individual's choice.

As long as they get food, water and proper medical care they can kill themselves all they want (small joke).