Why Do We Focus on Innocence, not Guilt?

[Anathema]

People should go to prison for speeding and jaywalking? Seems a little totalitarian.

Or are you suggesting we shouldn't have laws against speeding more than 15 mph, or jaywalking? I can see the argument for that, but in many ways it would end up trading one problem (disrespect for laws) for another (drivers doing 70 in residential neighborhoods).

People should go to jail for any m
Misdemeanor crime. The length of time determined by the severity of the crime and their prior record.

Convicted Felons should be executed. Give them up to two appeals - State Suprene Court and SCOTUS, to be heard and decided within 90 days. If the conviction is upheld, sentence to be carried out within 72 hours.

 

[westwall]

I’ve wondered about this for years because it’s the exact opposite of how I would set up a Justice System…

Why the hell does our Legal System focus so much on making sure the innocent go free rather than making sure that the Guilty get appropriately punished for what they’ve done wrong?

It just seems so completely backwards to me. Especially in a society where so few people are truly innocent

Because we aren't a shit society that allows government to run roughshod over its citizens.

Don't like it, hit the road.

 

[Darkwind]

I disagree. It’s just another proof of the naivety of the founding fathers. To believe that people are generally good (innocent) requires pretty much ignoring the totality of human nature. Putting barriers in the way of those trying to prosecute is even more ridiculous.

I trust the corrupt officials far more than the average citizen. I know what the official is gonna do. With the citizen it’s a total unknown.

This:

See, there's a problem with that line of thinking. The US Constitution has safeguards against summary judgement against people ACCUSED of crimes. The 1964 Miranda ruling not only safeguards a suspect's Constitutional rights under the 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendments, but also can work to the prosecutor's advantage. This is why we have due process.
A person is arrested either by probable cause or warrant
His case goes before a Grand Jury, which does not decide guilt, but simply determines whether there is enough evidence to return a "True Bill" of indictment, a formal declaration of charges against a criminal defendant.
Then the case goes before the trial judge and Petit Jury. That trial does determine guilt, innocence, and in a capital case, sentence of death or life without parole.
If the defendant is found not guilty, another Constitutional protection is activated, known as Double Jeopardy. This means that the government doesn't get a second bite of that apple.
Plea deals are often worked out for a plethora of reasons, but the result is usually the same. Defendant stands convicted.

 

[Anathema]

This:

Okay, you’re proving my point… the founders placed unnecessary and restrictive barriers in the way of common coding and punishing criminals.

 

[Darkwind]

Okay, you’re proving my point… the founders placed unnecessary and restrictive barriers in the way of common coding and punishing criminals.

No, the ensured that the powerless at least has a day in court. I'm not sure why you cannot see that or oppose it, but regardless of your excuses, we do not assume guilt and throw people in jail without a trail by peer.

 

[Anathema]

No, they ensured that the powerless at least has a day in court. I'm not sure why you cannot see that or oppose it, but regardless of your excuses, we do not assume guilt and throw people in jail without a trail by peer.

Powerful or powerless, why do the obviously guilty deserve a day in court?

Why is NYC wasting time on a trial forcing Mangioni. There’s plenty of evidence he did it. If memory serves that might imclude a confession… yet we’re still going to waste time and money on a trial. WHY!?!?!?

 

[GMCGeneral]

Thats the point… they should be going to jail for it. We e decided not to enforce our own laws then were shocked when society doesn’t follow them.

Believe me, a traffic citation isn't anything to sneeze at either. Especially where Commercial Vehicles are involved. Fines are typically steep and residuals like points on the license impact greatly.

 

[Eman623]

People should go to jail for any m
Misdemeanor crime. The length of time determined by the severity of the crime and their prior record.

Explain again why paying a fine is insufficient? At least for a first offense.

Convicted Felons should be executed. Give them up to two appeals - State Suprene Court and SCOTUS, to be heard and decided within 90 days. If the conviction is upheld, sentence to be carried out within 72 hours.

Well that would certainly solve the problem of too many prisoners, not enough guards. Of course if the supreme court judges have all been executed for past crimes like littering or not paying SS taxes on their nannies, that might affect the 90 day appeal timetable.

 

[Anathema]

Explain again why paying a fine is insufficient? At least for a first offense.

There are many ticket able offenses which don’t become Misdemeanors until there is an aggravating factor or multiple offense. Get the speeding ticket, until it becomes the third or fourth in a specific period of time or an excessive speed.

Well that would certainly solve the problem of too many prisoners, not enough guards. Of course if the supreme court judges have all been executed for past crimes like littering or not paying SS taxes on their nannies, that might affect the 90 day appeal timetable

That would simply mean that level of appeal is no longer available and the decision of the State Supreme Court stands.

 

[San Souci]

I’ve wondered about this for years because it’s the exact opposite of how I would set up a Justice System…

Why the hell does our Legal System focus so much on making sure the innocent go free rather than making sure that the Guilty get appropriately punished for what they’ve done wrong?

It just seems so completely backwards to me. Especially in a society where so few people are truly innocent

Should overturn Miranda and Escobedo.

 

[Leo123]

Powerful or powerless, why do the obviously guilty deserve a day in court?

Why is NYC wasting time on a trial forcing Mangioni. There’s plenty of evidence he did it. If memory serves that might imclude a confession… yet we’re still going to waste time and money on a trial. WHY!?!?!?

We need trials to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that guilt is appropriate and that our values are strong. There are those amongst us who eschew our legal system and would want the guilty to go free......Like this regarding Mangione:

“I don’t know if you can love someone you’ve never met,” she responded. “I love whoever made that action to stand for health care … They really took a stand. I’m actually surprised something like this hasn’t happened before.”


“Whoever did commit that act, I really do see him as a hero and a martyr.”

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/26/us/luigi-mangione-supporters

 

[Anathema]

We need trials to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that guilt is appropriate and that our values are strong. There are those amongst us who eschew our legal system and would want the guilty to go free......Like this regarding Mangione:

There are already those who believe in such things. Taking away trials for those of obvious guilt reduce their power and influence.

 

[Leo123]

There are already those who believe in such things. Taking away trials for those of obvious guilt reduce their power and influence.

'Obvious guilt' has to be decided by a jury not the media. Hell, my example shows that even with video of a perp committing a crime, there are those who deny it.

 

[Anathema]

'Obvious guilt' has to be decided by a jury not the media. Hell, my example shows that even with video of a perp committing a crime, there are those who deny it.

Denial, such as you point out in your example needs to be treated as being an accessory after the fact. Just as anyone who hides evidence or refuses to provide evidence should be.

 

[BS Filter]

Here's a little quiz for you today. What do these thugs who were bailed out by idiots have in common?

The Bail Project spent $91M freeing criminal suspects, including some who later committed murder

The Bail Project spent $90+ million bailing out suspects, including those who allegedly killed people after release. Multiple murders linked to the program.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Woodznutz]

I’ve wondered about this for years because it’s the exact opposite of how I would set up a Justice System…

Why the hell does our Legal System focus so much on making sure the innocent go free rather than making sure that the Guilty get appropriately punished for what they’ve done wrong?

It just seems so completely backwards to me. Especially in a society where so few people are truly innocent

It's because, as Jesus rightly observed, we are evil. We don't want to be evil or be thought of as evil. But our actions and the results of those actions reveal that we are indeed evil. And good cannot come from evil.

 

[Anathema]

It's because, as Jesus rightly observed, we are evil. We don't want to be evil or be thought of as evil. But our actions reveal that we are indeed evil.

Exactly; which is why we should be trying to punish the evil-doers. A basic part of everyday life is keeping ourselves from acting on those evil ideas, so why not focus on punishing those who fail to do so?

 

[Woodznutz]

Exactly; which is why we should be trying to punish the evil-doers. A basic part of everyday life is keeping ourselves from acting on those evil ideas, so why not focus on punishing those who fail to do so?

As long as politicians, who seek reelection, make the laws, we're pretty much screwed. A little vigilante justice might be helpful.

* Vigilante justice rarely punished the wrong person, and the punishment was usually just.

 

[Anathema]

As long as politicians, who seek reelection, make the laws, we're pretty much screwed. A little vigilante justice might be helpful.

* Vigilante justice rarely punished the wrong person, and the punishment was usually just.

I would like to think that we had evolved beyond such things, but you’re probably right.