Can you be a Christian and vote for Obama?

[WhiteLion]

As an agnostic, I post here to challenge the thought that because you adher to one particular belief, that you can judge me to be a lesser being than yourself. I see you posing questions like, "Can a Christian vote for Obama?", and I wonder, what would the Christ that I have read about in the New Testament have to say about your question? When does any of you have the right to claim to be the spokesman for a Deity?

Whether a Deity exists, I do not know. And I doubt very much that I would be capable of understanding that Deity, given the limitations of the present human intellect.

The Bible says no one knows the mind of GOD however we have HIS inspired WORD to guide us and that very same WORD will judge you(I WILL NOT YOU, YOUR MAMMY WILL NOT JUDGE YOU, YA DADDY WILL NOT JUDGE YOU)... GOD AND GODS WORD ALONE JUDGES YOU....THERE"S ONLY ONE WAY TO GOD and thats through HIS son JESUS THE CHRIST not Mohammad, not Budha belly, not Hinduism not any of these false prophets or cold stoned idols...Been a many blood of Christains spilled through out the ages and before its over itll be a many more...John Foxe, 1516-1587, himself noted that, "The blood of the martyrs has become the seedbed of the Church
Oh and it wasnt my question if youd of read it???i just responded to it bro.? And if youll take that intellect out of the box you got stuffed in so tight it might just dawn on you before its to late.......

 

[9 Volt]

The Bible says no one knows the mind of GOD however we have HIS inspired WORD to guide us and that very same WORD will JUDGE YOU(I WILL NOT YOU, YOUR MAMMY WILL NOT JUDGE YOU, YA DADDY WILL NOT JUDGE YOU... GOD AND GODS WORD ALONE JUDGES YOU....THERE"S ONLY ONE WAY TO GOD and thats through HIS son JESUS THE CHRIST not Mohammad, not Budha belly not any of these false prophets or cold stoned idols...Oh and it wasnt my question if youd of read it???i just responded to it bro.?

If there is to be Godlessness in the last days, we must be far from the end. Christianity has taken root and is stronger now than ever before. Special interest groups are powerful these days and continually influence even the most ungodly of institutions (political parties). Any idea how Christianity became so entrenched in a country that was founded by guys running from Christian fundamentalism?

 

[Care4all]

If there is to be Godlessness in the last days, we must be far from the end. Christianity has taken root and is stronger now than ever before. Special interest groups are powerful these days and continually influence even the most ungodly of institutions (political parties). Any idea how Christianity became so entrenched in a country that was founded by guys running from Christian fundamentalism?

If they were running from religion, they were running from a government institutionalized, a government established, one denominational religion...with no religious freedom of choice for any one.

They were fighting so that puritans could practice what they believe and quakers could practice what they believed and Anglicans could practice what they believed and Methodists could practice what they believed and Lutherans could practice what they believed etc., without the government interfering with them...and their religious denominations, without the government forcing them in to a ONE religion country only.

this wasn't a fight against religion, but a fight for the freedom of religion from government enforcement in to an established, one denomination, State Religion, no?

Isn't that what was going on in our history...when all of the religious people came over here in droves like the Puritans and Quakers etc?

Care

 

[glockmail]

Strawman alert!

Look up the term. You used it incorrectly.

 

[9 Volt]

If they were running from religion, they were running from a government institutionalized, a government established, one denominational religion...with no religious freedom of choice for any one.

They were fighting so that puritans could practice what they believe and quakers could practice what they believed and Anglicans could practice what they believed and Methodists could practice what they believed and Lutherans could practice what they believed etc., without the government interfering with them...and their religious denominations, without the government forcing them in to a ONE religion country only.

this wasn't a fight against religion, but a fight for the freedom of religion from government enforcement in to an established, one denomination, State Religion, no?

Isn't that what was going on in our history...when all of the religious people came over here in droves like the Puritans and Quakers etc?

Care

As I said, they were running from Religious (Christian) FUNDAMENTALISM.

 

[WhiteLion]

If there is to be Godlessness in the last days, we must be far from the end. Christianity has taken root and is stronger now than ever before. Special interest groups are powerful these days and continually influence even the most ungodly of institutions (political parties). Any idea how Christianity became so entrenched in a country that was founded by guys running from Christian fundamentalism?

Jesus drank wine with the publicans... [Matt. 11:18,19:] "John came neither eating nor drinking, and they
say, He hath a devil. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and
they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a wine-bibber, a friend of
publicans and sinners... And it was Christians that was running from tyrantic papalist monarchy, (pilgrams??)my my how history has been rewritten...
But again back to the original subject "is it wrong for a Christain to vote for OBAMA", if Obama supports either abortion or homosexuality, its dead wrong for a Christain to vote for him if they value their guide the HOLY BIBLE GODs inspired WORD(JESUS THE CHRIST)...

 

[AllieBaba]

Jesus answered difficult and political questions all during his time on earth.

I would like, once again, to remind people that it was the BAPTISTS who fought hardest and who died in droves to promote the separation of church and state.

The whole "Conservative Christian = Proponent of State-Run Church" is a complete and total fabrication by those who WANT to use the government to control religion.

 

[Care4all]

Jesus drank wine with the publicans... [Matt. 11:18,19:] "John came neither eating nor drinking, and they
say, He hath a devil. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and
they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a wine-bibber, a friend of
publicans and sinners... And it was Christians that was running from tyrantic papalist monarchy, (pilgrams??)my my how history has been rewritten...
But again back to the original subject "is it wrong for a Christain to vote for OBAMA", if Obama supports either abortion or homosexuality, its dead wrong for a Christain to vote for him if they value their guide the HOLY BIBLE GODs inspired WORD(JESUS THE CHRIST)...

And here's where we disagree....not one sin is greater than another, sin is sin and falling SHORT of the glory of God....in addition all men are sinners.

Killing innocent people is also killing the innocent, as you would see as killing an unborn child.

this is what has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan, some innocent people were killed....at our hands, even though by accident or by a calculation of "collateral damage" done by the leaders....

And favoring the wealthiest is a sin, and disparaging the poor is a sin, and ignoring those in prison is a sin, and adultery is a sin, and usery is a sin, and gluttony is a sin, and fornication is a sin, and lying is a sin, and keeping up with the jones's is a sin, and thievery is a sin, and sodomy is a sin, and divorce is a sin unless for marital unfaithfulness, and the love of money is a sin, and hating your enemy is a sin, and so on and so forth.

What i am trying to say is that since in my opinion no one sin is greater than another according to scripture, then ALL sin has to be considered if one is picking their leaders on who is supposedly sin free...or who sins the least and many sins rest in ones heart alone and not visible to us...basically i see it as:

All are personal sins of which each will have to answer to Christ on judgement day....

I think we are to weigh each leader as you state, but for their leadership strengths and weakenesses involved in leading our country, through war, through security, through economics and through foreign and domestic affairs etc...

Give unto Caesar what is his....implies that there are things that belong to the gvt and there are things involved with spreading God's Word...it implies a separation, imho.

care

 

[AllieBaba]

All sin is sin, I agree with that...and God can as easily forgive the sin of murder as that of adultery, and at that point, there is no distinction between the two.

I differ, however, in that I think there are "levels" of sin. Sin forgiven is sin forgiven as far as man is concerned...but at the same time, I believe even in heaven we will be held accountable, and that some sins will require greater penance than others.

The bible makes references to sins which will not be forgiven. One has something to do with the Holy Spirit...I don't remember specifically...I think it's taking the name of the Holy Spirit in vain.

The other is killing of the innocent.

 

[Care4all]

All sin is sin, I agree with that...and God can as easily forgive the sin of murder as that of adultery, and at that point, there is no distinction between the two.

I differ, however, in that I think there are "levels" of sin. Sin forgiven is sin forgiven as far as man is concerned...but at the same time, I believe even in heaven we will be held accountable, and that some sins will require greater penance than others.

The bible makes references to sins which will not be forgiven. One has something to do with the Holy Spirit...I don't remember specifically...I think it's taking the name of the Holy Spirit in vain.

The other is killing of the innocent.

Sinning against the Holy Spirit, is the one, unforgivable sin...

Now....what that means exactly is hard to decipher, imho???

care

 

[AllieBaba]

Oh I agree. Very hard to decipher.

 

[Article 15]

Look up the term. You used it incorrectly.

I think I used it properly ... unless you can show me where in the thread that poster mentioned global warming and called it his religion ...

 

[9 Volt]

Jesus drank wine with the publicans... [Matt. 11:18,19:] "John came neither eating nor drinking, and they
say, He hath a devil. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and
they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a wine-bibber, a friend of
publicans and sinners... And it was Christians that was running from tyrantic papalist monarchy, (pilgrams??)my my how history has been rewritten...
But again back to the original subject "is it wrong for a Christain to vote for OBAMA", if Obama supports either abortion or homosexuality, its dead wrong for a Christain to vote for him if they value their guide the HOLY BIBLE GODs inspired WORD(JESUS THE CHRIST)...

Obama supports neither abortion or homosexuality. Obama supports the law and free will. Murder, rape, assault etc. are all matters of free will. If you are so inclined as to kill another human being; Fine, but you'd better be prepared to face the consequences. We live in a society as individuals with rights, and our free will is only affected by those who we look to as teachers and mentors. If you want this out of a President. You're an idiot.

 

[AllieBaba]

"Free will".
You mean like imposing mandatory service upon college kids?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Here's how a Christian can vote for any candidate: separation of church and state.

Just because a candidate supports something the church doesn't, doesn't mean that a Christian can't support that candidate. What Christians need to do is stop shoving their conservative morality down other people's throats. Now, not all Christians do, but a large number of them do. Mind your own damn business. If homosexuals want to get married, so what? It doesn't affect you. If abortion is legal but you don't agree with it, then don't get one. If you want to believe in creationism and intelligent design despite all of the cohesive evidence against such superstitious beliefs, then go ahead. That's your business. We're not all of us Christians, so leave your religion out of my life and focus on bettering yourself and not on forcing others to live by your standards.

Amen!

 

[9 Volt]

Here's how a Christian can vote for any candidate: separation of church and state.

Just because a candidate supports something the church doesn't, doesn't mean that a Christian can't support that candidate. What Christians need to do is stop shoving their conservative morality down other people's throats. Now, not all Christians do, but a large number of them do. Mind your own damn business. If homosexuals want to get married, so what? It doesn't affect you. If abortion is legal but you don't agree with it, then don't get one. If you want to believe in creationism and intelligent design despite all of the cohesive evidence against such superstitious beliefs, then go ahead. That's your business. We're not all of us Christians, so leave your religion out of my life and focus on bettering yourself and not on forcing others to live by your standards.

Amen!

Our founding fathers were mostly non-Christians and would have agreed with most evrything you posted here.

 

[9 Volt]

"Free will".
You mean like imposing mandatory service upon college kids?

It's not "mandatory service". It's a tax credit in exchange for volunteering. Maybe you should actually research some of what you bloviate.

 

[busara]

Here's how a Christian can vote for any candidate: separation of church and state.

Just because a candidate supports something the church doesn't, doesn't mean that a Christian can't support that candidate. What Christians need to do is stop shoving their conservative morality down other people's throats. Now, not all Christians do, but a large number of them do. Mind your own damn business. If homosexuals want to get married, so what? It doesn't affect you. If abortion is legal but you don't agree with it, then don't get one. If you want to believe in creationism and intelligent design despite all of the cohesive evidence against such superstitious beliefs, then go ahead. That's your business. We're not all of us Christians, so leave your religion out of my life and focus on bettering yourself and not on forcing others to live by your standards.

Amen!

well said. morality issues such as abortions are between the individual and God. it is not my business to attempt to regulate morality through legislation.

 

[AllieBaba]

However it is your business to see that tax dollars are not used to prop up a multi-million dollar industry that uses the government to approve the use of murder as birth control.

 

[9 Volt]

However it is your business to see that tax dollars are not used to prop up a multi-million dollar industry that uses the government to approve the use of murder as birth control.

Small potatos. You're obviously oblivious to the fact that YOUR tax dollars have been used to prop industries (war, disaster, homeland security) that put money DIRECTLY into the pockets of your elected and appointed government officials... To the tune of hundreds of billions.