Can Someone Explain how we can Impliment Socialism and Still Enjoy the Benefits of Capitalism?

In my mind, socialism is an economic system while democratic socialism is social system (welfare, SS, SNAP, etc.). Very different things.

To address the former, the answer to how we get there is that it is very easy. Most US businesses are publicly traded corporations, meaning they are owned by their stockholders though the stockholders have limited power. Having the government buy shares in those companies is, essentially, socialism. No less a capitalist than Trump has gone this path with deals with Intel and Nippon Steel.
Trump is a populist.

Private shareholders are primarily concerned with profit-driven increase in stock values and dividends.

Once government owns large chunks of these corporations, will that still be the main focus and the basis on which corporate board members are elected?
 
Trump is a populist.

Private shareholders are primarily concerned with profit-driven increase in stock values and dividends.

Once government owns large chunks of these corporations, will that still be the main focus and the basis on which corporate board members are elected?
It probably won't be the ONLY focus. The markets today are primarily concerned with short-term gains. The gov't may move that focus toward long-term sustainability. Not necessarily a bad thing.
 
The system is now corporatism.

How true.
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I know that is one definition.

I know that there are many Democrats and lawmakers who caucus with Democrats openly calling themselves socialists.

Do all of them advocate as system where the means of production, distribution and exchange are held in common cause, usually through the agency of the state?
I haven't heard any of them wishing to put roads and air control and defence forces, etc., etc., into private hands.
 
You are fake news!

We have a few Mussolini wannabes in Ontario and there are some decisions that Trump made I don't agree with, but he isn't violating citizens rights. In fact, he has pardoned those who have had their rights violated. Citizens can respect and support that.
US citizens have the right to be detained by ICE over their immigration status. I hear ya.
 
I doubt that. Point is, moron, those things you mentioned are not socialism. and they existed long before any socialist system was tried.

The most capitalistic country in the world has police and fire.

You're either being a dumbass for the sake of being a dumbass, or you really are that dumb.

Well?
Lol, your "point" is bullshit. You may doubt all you wish, but it doesn't change reality.
 
After more than one hundred and fifty years of capitalism, there is plenty of money available in the United States for Socialism to work - if money were the only reason it would not. But even if that were true, the money will have to run out and then socialism cannot work.


Many Americans—particularly but not exclusively the young—remain intrigued by socialism. Indeed, a 2019 survey found that socialism is as popular as capitalism among young American adults. Well-known political figures such as Senator Bernie Sanders and Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez describe themselves as “democratic socialists” and advocate tens of trillions of dollars in new spending programs along with a massive expansion of state power over citizens’ lives. In academic circles, too, the debate surrounding the merits of socialism continues.

Yet, the clothes, the cars, the homes, the books (if any still read them), the devices and the services on those devices, and even their favorite social media influencers are the products of capitalism, brought to them by people in search of profit.

Imagine a version of Youtube in which government committees, rather than popularity driven monetization, paid producers to keep posting content. It would die on the vine or broadcast unwatched content into the ether, unless government decided to somehow mandate consumuing the videos.

"govtube.org" would probably manage to be even less popular than Air America was.

So when whatever socialist world you envision comes about, how will goods and services continue to be produced? Please be specific and step-by-step, not just "by the people's producers!" or some such nonsense.

How will production be motivated, and how will government determine what to produce?
The linked article on which you post is predicated is =in its entirety- a non sequitur logical fallacy. Your premise – that socialists advocate for large amounts of spending on social programs and seek to impose massive regulations does not support your conclusion that that socialism will destroy capitalism and wealth and that we will “run out of money” at some point .

Democratic Socialists like Sanders and AOC are not opposed to Capitalism per say, but rather the excesses of unbridled laissez-faire Capitalism, excessive income inequality, increasing wealth disparity, exploitation of workers and a lack of consumer protections.

To many people are lamenting te rise of Socialism and spreading misinformation and outright lies about what it is . The conflate -either by design or ignorance – the type of Socialism that exists in the context of a totalitarian regime where free enterprise and private ownership is forbidden ( except by the para ty elite and the oligarchs) and the Socialism that we have in a Democratic society.

The fact is that Socialism has coexisted side by side with Democracy and a free market economy in the United states since the early 20th century with the rise of the progressive movement which recognized that government can and should work to better the lives of ordinary people and not just exist as an end in it self or for the betterment of the elite.

Not only does Democratic Socialism exist along side of Capitalism, but is essential to the long term viability of Capitalism and a free market. The massive spending on social programs and the regulations that are often derided as expensive and as an erosion of freedom are essential for the long term viability of Capitalism. The social safety net programs like unemployment insurance and food assistance ensure that the workforce survives during periods of economic down turn which will happen from time to time in a free market. They also ensure that there will be a pool of healthy workers ready to jump in when the economy expands and their labor is needed

Yes those programs are expensive but the recipients of that assistance return it to the economy by spending it and thus supporting businesses that rely on consumers . It is folly to lament the cost of those social programs while applauding massive tax cuts for the wealthy who- rather than return their windfall to the economy -tend to sock it away and watch it grown as an investment.

And before anyone starts bleating about bleeding heart liberals who give away “free stuff”, those welfare programs are not actually intended to alleviate poverty but are a form of social control intended to quell social unrest

A good read on that issue is:

In Regulating the Poor, Frances Fox Piven and Richard A. Cloward In which they argue that welfare programs do not alleviate poverty but rather manage it to maintain social control and economic inequality. They posit that welfare expands during times of social unrest to pacify the poor and then contracts to ensure a steady supply of low-wage labor once order is restored

The bottom line is that with Democratic Socialism, profits are still made , taxes are still paid, the means of production are still in private hands, the economy grows, and we will not run out of money. The histrionics over socialism is just ridiculous
 
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The linked article on which you post is predicated is =in its entirety- a non sequitur logical fallacy. Your premise – that socialists advocate for large amounts of spending on social programs and seek to impose massive regulations does not support your conclusion that that socialism will destroy capitalism and wealth and that we will “run out of money” at some point .

Democratic Socialists like Sanders and AOC are not opposed to Capitalism per say, but rather the excesses of unbridled laissez-faire Capitalism, excessive income inequality, increasing wealth disparity, exploitation of workers and a lack of consumer protections.

To many people are lamenting te rise of Socialism and spreading misinformation and outright lies about what it is . The conflate -either by design or ignorance – the type of Socialism that exists in the context of a totalitarian regime where free enterprise and private ownership is forbidden ( except by the para ty elite and the oligarchs) and the Socialism that we have in a Democratic society.

The fact is that Socialism has coexisted side by side with Democracy and a free market economy in the United states since the early 20th century with the rise of the progressive movement which recognized that government can and should work to better the lives of ordinary people and not just exist as an end in it self or for the betterment of the elite.

The fact is that not only does Democratic Socialism exist, along side of Capitalism but is essential to the long term viability of Capitalism and a free market. The massive spending on social programs and the regulations that are often derided as expensive and as an erosion of freedom are essential for the long term viability of Capitalism. The social safety net programs like unemployment insurance and food assistance ensure that the workforce survives during periods of economic down turn which will happen from time to time in a free market. They also ensure that there will be a pool of healthy workers ready to jump in when the economy expands and their labor is needed

Yes those programs are expensive but the recipients of that assistance return it to the economy by spending it and thus supporting businesses that rely on consumers . It is folly to lament the cost of those social programs while applauding massive tax cuts for the wealthy who- rather than return their windfall to the economy -tend to sock it away and watch it grown as an investment.

And before anyone starts bleating about bleeding heart liberals who give away “free stuff”, those welfare programs are not actually intended to alleviate poverty but are a form of social control intended to quell social unrest

A good read on that issue is:



The bottom line is that with Democratic Socialism, profits are still made , taxes are still paid, the means of production are still in private hands, the economy grows, and we will not run out of money. The histrionics over socialism is just ridiculous
So you advocate capitalism as a way to ensure that socialism can work.

That is great, but the up and coming young democrats hate capitalism.
 
15th post
After more than one hundred and fifty years of capitalism, there is plenty of money available in the United States for Socialism to work - if money were the only reason it would not. But even if that were true, the money will have to run out and then socialism cannot work.


Many Americans—particularly but not exclusively the young—remain intrigued by socialism. Indeed, a 2019 survey found that socialism is as popular as capitalism among young American adults. Well-known political figures such as Senator Bernie Sanders and Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez describe themselves as “democratic socialists” and advocate tens of trillions of dollars in new spending programs along with a massive expansion of state power over citizens’ lives. In academic circles, too, the debate surrounding the merits of socialism continues.

Yet, the clothes, the cars, the homes, the books (if any still read them), the devices and the services on those devices, and even their favorite social media influencers are the products of capitalism, brought to them by people in search of profit.

Imagine a version of Youtube in which government committees, rather than popularity driven monetization, paid producers to keep posting content. It would die on the vine or broadcast unwatched content into the ether, unless government decided to somehow mandate consuming the videos.

"govtube.org" would probably manage to be even less popular than Air America was.

So when whatever socialist world you envision comes about, how will goods and services continue to be produced? Please be specific and step-by-step, not just "by the people's producers!" or some such nonsense.

How will production be motivated, and how will government determine what to produce?
To see socialism work, you need a little bit of paper, put some tobacco and cannabis in it, roll it up, light it, and smoke it. Let that get through your bloodstream and bingo, you'll see shit loads of fantasy stuff working.
 
I don't know that for a fact . Can you document that?
Oh yes. Absolutely.

I will be happy to go and research the candidates and present you with their speeches and and hope that you will read them and believe what everyone else already knows.

You're acceptance and approval means everything to me!

I will be so quick with that that I recommend you hold your breath and I will be back to you before you pass out.

Ready? go!
 
Musk said that AI and robots will “eliminate poverty” and “make everyone richer than the current super-rich.”

He's lying. Under capitalism, there's no incentive to eliminate poverty.

This is only possible under socialism.

But it is interesting that Musk speaks of communism as an inevitable consequence of the scientific and technological revolution.
This is what soviet communists were convinced of and constantly proclaimed throughout the second half of the 20th century.
Another “bull's-eye” for scientific Marxism-Leninism, a filigree prediction.

The development of productive forces inevitably leads humanity to the construction of the material basis of communism. But reactionary, backward capitalist production relations stand as a barrier to progress, hindering the rise of civilization in every way.
 
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