Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

[cwjerome]

I say no. The toxic partisan dysfunction that exists cannot fix itself and will only continue (and only get worse).

It will take a nearly impossible effort of non-partisans, moderates, and independents (ie. reasonable non-maniacs) to force the political culture and electoral structure into change.

I do not see a way forward with the current Rep and Dem party stranglehold... they cannot "fix themselves."

 

[TemplarKormac]

No.

I agree with the OP.

Anyone who partakes in partisanship is not interested in civil discourse.

 

[TNHarley]

Of course not. If they didnt have division and fear, we wouldnt have a duopoly.

 

[MarcATL]

Absolutely not.

Not unless and until the current Republican party has been pummeled into submission via massive political losses both locally and nationally they won't snap out of their racist, white supremacist stupor and come to their senses.

We seem to be a ways off from there, as the current Democratic party seems to be taking these fascists lightly and playing footsie with them to boot.

 

[Mac1958]

I say no. The toxic partisan dysfunction that exists cannot fix itself and will only continue (and only get worse).

It will take a nearly impossible effort of non-partisans, moderates, and independents (ie. reasonable non-maniacs) to force the political culture and electoral structure into change.

I do not see a way forward with the current Rep and Dem party stranglehold... they cannot "fix themselves."

Welcome. Good topic.

We've talked about this quite a bit here, and we generally don't come to many conclusions. Some people think that our system is so broken now that only a strong third party can keep the other two from spinning further into madness. Others think that a third party is a pipe dream, and that change has to come from within the parties, perhaps via the moderates in the parties.

I'd love to see a strong and viable third party emerge. I just don't see how we get from here to there.

 

[whitehall]

We'd be in bigger trouble if everyone in government agreed with each other. Then we'd have to depend on the unelected media which has proved itself to be untrustworthy. People who complain about the two party system these days are usually democrats who suffer from buyers remorse.

 

[TNHarley]

Welcome. Good topic.

We've talked about this quite a bit here, and we generally don't come to many conclusions. Some people think that our system is so broken now that only a strong third party can keep the other two from spinning further into madness. Others think that a third party is a pipe dream, and that change has to come from within the parties, perhaps via the moderates in the parties.

I'd love to see a strong and viable third party emerge. I just don't see how we get from here to there.

ummm quit voting for them. Probably wont happen, though. Too many of you morons see the duopoly as the "only choice"
You talk shit about the duopoly but eat up its rhetoric like a starving kid in North Africa.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Civil discourse requires tolerance of ideas one finds displeasing.

That is impossible to those who bathe in partisan venom.

 

[ClaireH]

I voted maybe because generically the possibility of civil discourse could happen but we would have to vote out current members (including all career politicians). Once that slate is clean a battery of tests should be required for any replacement.

Can you imagine if one state began the domino chain effect by requiring its legal representatives to actually pass IQ tests, emotional stability tests, and world knowledge tests? An amazing new day would occur and it could happen. I hope to live to see the day when states begin to require that their representatives be smart, educated, aware, and ethical. I certainly don’t count on our federal government to an act on anything like that; too many reps fully enjoy the status quo to remain deal making politicians who might be knowledgeable or otherwise.

 

[ClaireH]

Welcome. Good topic.

We've talked about this quite a bit here, and we generally don't come to many conclusions. Some people think that our system is so broken now that only a strong third party can keep the other two from spinning further into madness. Others think that a third party is a pipe dream, and that change has to come from within the parties, perhaps via the moderates in the parties.

I'd love to see a strong and viable third party emerge. I just don't see how we get from here to there.

Oh there will absolutely be a third-party come into fruition, and I’m just surprised it hasn’t happened yet. The glass ceiling is about to be broken, maybe not in 2024, but we’ll see about 2028!
Once a valid third-party candidate runs for office and obtains a good share of the votes (it’s going to be way over 12%) then the next time around voters will have more confidence in voting for the next third-party candidate, given that he or she will be a good one.

 

[cwjerome]

Absolutely not.

Not unless and until the current Republican party has been pummeled into submission via massive political losses both locally and nationally they won't snap out of their racist, white supremacist stupor and come to their senses.

We seem to be a ways off from there, as the current Democratic party seems to be taking these fascists lightly and playing footsie with them to boot.

While I generally agree, I do not think the Dem party can fix this issue. Both parties are bad in my opinion, granted the GOP particularly so, but I see it more as symptoms of a broken political landscape, not causes.

 

[cwjerome]

Welcome. Good topic.

We've talked about this quite a bit here, and we generally don't come to many conclusions. Some people think that our system is so broken now that only a strong third party can keep the other two from spinning further into madness. Others think that a third party is a pipe dream, and that change has to come from within the parties, perhaps via the moderates in the parties.

I'd love to see a strong and viable third party emerge. I just don't see how we get from here to there.

It seems the Rep and Dem parties take millions of votes for granted because they know people will basically be forced into voting for them despite their best values and instincts. A 3rd bloc of voters don't need to win elections, you need to change them. If Rep and Dem parties realize they can't win without the support of the common sense moderates/independents, they change their tune and start pandering to reasonable people, not the extremes.

I believe there just has to be the political will to get organized and make it happen.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Oh there will absolutely be a third-party come into fruition, and I’m just surprised it hasn’t happened yet. The glass ceiling is about to be broken, maybe not in 2024, but we’ll see about 2028!
Once a valid third-party candidate runs for office and obtains a good share of the votes (it’s going to be way over 12%) then the next time around voters will have more confidence in voting for the next third-party candidate, given that he or she will be a good one.

There's quite a bit going on, actually. And for some time, I'd add.

The party of one has effectively taken over the airwaves and turned it into an extention of themselves, however. So nobody ever really hears about it.

For which I am grateful.

A lot has changed over the last dozen years. And it's been a rather slow move forward. But moving forward none the less. Sometimes you have to just do it like a thief in the night.

Not too long long ago the party of one fought and won to keep third parties off the ballots, even after they'd won the right.

This past election there was a third, even fourth and fifth option in every state in the nation.

People acomplished that in spite of the antics of the party of one. Their feet hit the pavement. Instead of just talking about it, they were about it.

A lot of times people believe that it's always about trying to hurry up and just get elected. But we see what logic that gets us. It gets us the party of one. But that's not really how winning is done. Winning is changing the course of history. And that takes time. But it does not take a majority. Nope. Huh uh.

 

[Mac1958]

It seems the Rep and Dem parties take millions of votes for granted because they know people will basically be forced into voting for them despite their best values and instincts. A 3rd bloc of voters don't need to win elections, you need to change them. If Rep and Dem parties realize they can't win without the support of the common sense moderates/independents, they change their tune and start pandering to reasonable people, not the extremes.

I believe there just has to be the political will to get organized and make it happen.

Well, we're a culture that is far more interested in who won Dancing with the Stars™, so this is an uphill battle to say the least. And if we're not saying "enough is enough" at this point, it's difficult for me to imagine that we'll ever get there.

I'm usually a believer in momentum. So in a political context, maybe enough politicians and influencers and donors break away to create a momentum that creates a third party. Right now, though, it sure feels like wishful thinking.

 

[d0gbreath]

I was a bit surprised to see that I'm the only 'yes' vote. Patriots my ass.

 

[B. Kidd]

Why should the discourse be civil?

Neo-Marxist Dimm's are trying to change the trajectory of our Country to being totalitarian bound!

Liberty and Freedom have always been worth fighting for!

 

[ClaireH]

It seems the Rep and Dem parties take millions of votes for granted because they know people will basically be forced into voting for them despite their best values and instincts. A 3rd bloc of voters don't need to win elections, you need to change them. If Rep and Dem parties realize they can't win without the support of the common sense moderates/independents, they change their tune and start pandering to reasonable people, not the extremes.

I believe there just has to be the political will to get organized and make it happen.

You make an excellent point about trying to work with the existing elements to focus on a “moderate balance” instead of the continued imbalance. Currently, the political pendulum needle appears to be a bit farther left than Pelosi’s clan wants, due to boisterous leftists making socialistic demands as “payment for their 2020 votes”. Traditional Dems fully enjoy how capitalism is running, while many leftists abhore the basic concept capitalism. Whatever turns out it’s going to be interesting.

My prediction is still the same. I see that the Democratic Party will be split in half with leftists going one way (along with a few extreme groups) and traditional Dems (and others) going another. They will (Dem leaders in congress) fight this splintering to the end, bargaining as they’ve attempted and giving away power, so they’ll be more internal bickering (maybe a few years). Who’s winning behind the scenes -only time will tell. The people, average citizens as a nation should be the winners, not any particular political party. But that’s another issue

 

[TNHarley]

Next time make names public in your poll responses so we can laugh at idiots who think "yes"

 

[cwjerome]

Why should the discourse be civil?

Neo-Marxist Dimm's are trying to change the trajectory of our Country to being totalitarian bound!

Liberty and Freedom have always been worth fighting for!

Because increasing division, strife, partisan polarization, toxicity, and dysfunction will not lead to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. There is no endgame down that road. It's all a mistake, it's all a con, we've all been manipulated. The 80% of us can find common ground, work together, compromise, and not be pushed to extremes. That is how we're going to get out of this.

 

[ClaireH]

There's quite a bit going on, actually. And for some time, I'd add.

The party of one has effectively taken over the airwaves and turned it into an extention of themselves, however. So nobody ever really hears about it.

For which I am grateful.

A lot has changed over the last dozen years. And it's been a rather slow move forward. But moving forward none the less. Sometimes you have to just do it like a thief in the night.

Not too long long ago the party of one fought and won to keep third parties off the ballots, even after they'd won the right.

This past election there was a third, even fourth and fifth option in every state in the nation.

People acomplished that in spite of the antics of the party of one. Their feet hit the pavement. Instead of just talking about it, they were about it.

A lot of times people believe that it's always about trying to hurry up and just get elected. But we see what logic that gets us. It gets us the party of one. But that's not really how winning is done. Winning is changing the course of history. And that takes time. But it does not take a majority. Nope. Huh uh.

I was following you up until the part of it does not take a majority to change things. I know that your statement is correct, because looking at history the number of global battles have been fought with the winner (as you’ve stated) not always having the numbers but had the will (my mind goes to Taliban fighting in their mountainous territory and winning) to fight and win the long game (what- over 40 years battling various countries) I abhor the Taliban, but to say they give up would be a lie.

I think you’re indicating a revolution will happen and I can’t say that it won’t at some point in the future. Now? Most people from various affiliations just want to live their lives in peace and not be subjected to Biden’s governmental conniption fits of being considered “domestic enemies” because we don’t support his rhetoric.