Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

[B. Kidd]

Because increasing division, strife, partisan polarization, toxicity, and dysfunction will not lead to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. There is no endgame down that road. It's all a mistake, it's all a con, we've all been manipulated. The 80% of us can find common ground, work together, compromise, and not be pushed to extremes. That is how we're going to get out of this.

Thanks for the road map..........

 

[Concerned American]

We'd be in bigger trouble if everyone in government agreed with each other.

This is true, however, there have been times in our history when the two parties have been able to "compromise." That word is extinct in today's political climate.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I was following you up until the part of it does not take a majority to change things. I know that your statement is correct, because looking at history the number of global battles have been fought with the winner (as you’ve stated) not always having the numbers but had the will (my mind goes to Taliban fighting in their mountainous territory and winning) to fight and win the long game (what- over 40 years battling various countries) I abhor the Taliban, but to say they give up would be a lie.

I think you’re indicating a revolution will happen and I can’t say that it won’t at some point in the future. Now? Most people from various affiliations just want to live their lives in peace and not be subjected to Biden’s governmental conniption fits of being considered “domestic enemies” because we don’t support his rhetoric.

Oh, I wasn't talking about violence.

I still believe in the political process, as silly as it sounds.

Over time, however, I've found that you just get more meaningful things accomplished while all of the attention is given to the machine fighting against itself. Just takes time is all.

For example, while the machine puts the likes of marjorie greene front and center for the purpose of narrating the terms of controversy, about a half dozen refusniks worked tirelessly to pave the way for Rand to get into office. Even if he did have to hold his nose and carry an R.

Who is getting more accomplished in terms of actually changing the course of history. Changing the discussion? Who just slapped the ever living shit out of the highest paid minion in the central government in front of all of his friends? The lead guy in what has effectively become the biggest tyranny against freedom in American history?

It sure wasn't any of the machine's offerings. Huh uh.

And it doesn't even matter how it pans out. The course of history is now changed forever. And people can't unsee it. They can't unhear it. Sure, they can cry sour grapes. But that's only because they have to.

Who is the best member of Congress? I'd venture to say Thomas Massie. His voting record speaks for itself.

Do you really think he's a Republican?

The same people who worked tirelessly to get Rand in there are the same people who worked tirelessly to get Thomas in there. Last year you had Pelosi calling him a dangerous neusance while Trump was calling for him to be thrown out of the Republican party in synergy.

There's a reason for that. It's the same reason Pelosi gave Trump everything he wanted in what was at the time the highest spending bill in history while she was 'impeaching' him in front of the television cameras. I had a thread about that some place around here. Of course, it was all crickets, predictably. And that's okay. It's perfectly fine.

Of course, I'm talking about elections, even though I mentoned that wasn't really where the importance lied in scope. But that's the topic at hand here, so I chose those two examples for convenience sake.

Moral of the story is it's always best to keep it simple. Keep your head down. Let the circus have the stage. When it's really show time, thouhg, look up and give em a show they'll not soon forget. And suddenly. Hit the biggest one of the bunch in front of all of his friends. The biggest one is most often the weakest, truthfully speaking. History is ripe with ecxample. Then watch him shake like a leaf. Because he will. The people will see. And the course of history will be forever changed. That's the real prize. Heh heh.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

I say no. The toxic partisan dysfunction that exists cannot fix itself and will only continue (and only get worse).

It will take a nearly impossible effort of non-partisans, moderates, and independents (ie. reasonable non-maniacs) to force the political culture and electoral structure into change.

I do not see a way forward with the current Rep and Dem party stranglehold... they cannot "fix themselves."

The Republican and Democratic party are pretty much the same now a days with just a few minor difference. They both spend insane amounts of tax payer money on shit that is not even mentioned in the Constitution. Some politicians spend decades in office living off the tax payers dime. It's time for Amendments for a balanced budget and term limits.

The US government is to big why is the Fed the largest employer in a supposedly free market society.

 

[Theowl32]

Civil discourse requires tolerance of ideas one finds displeasing.

That is impossible to those who bathe in partisan venom.

Don't get sucked into the left wing trick. The notion of BIPARTISANSHIP is a bs word and our country is based on partisanship. Yes, that's right. One side arguing their side and a TRUE OPPOSITION to that side arguing the other. That is the country and that is the way it is supposed to be.

Unfortunately for us we are seduced into this notion that we are supposed to be BIPARTISANS.

It's a lie. We have not had a true bipartisan candidate before Trump since Reagan. The Bushes and McCain and Romney were all dupes.

War hawks, and all doing the bidding of the new world order bent on taking the country down and ushering in this globalist mentality.

Wake up to their tactics and be willing to fight.

 

[Jets]

The answer is an emphatic NO. Too many partisans view the opposition as the enemy. There is no room for discourse under such a dynamic…

 

[ClaireH]

This is true, however, there have been times in our history when the two parties have been able to "compromise." That word is extinct in today's political climate.

To be fair to ole’ Joe Biden, decades ago it was said, but I don’t claim to know the truth of it, but it was at least reported that members on both sides of the aisle considered Biden (when he had control over his mental faculties) as one who would work both ends to try to get at a compromise. It seems now that all Joe is concerned about is working for one end, and that is a problem for any president.

 

[ClaireH]

Oh, I wasn't talking about violence.

I still believe in the political process, as silly as it sounds.

Over time, however, I've found that you just get more meaningful things accomplished while all of the attention is given to the machine fighting against itself. Just takes time is all.

For example, while the machine puts the likes of marjorie greene front and center for the purpose of narrating the terms of controversy, about a half dozen refusniks worked tirelessly to pave the way for Rand to get into office. Even if he did have to hold his nose and carry an R.

Who is getting more accomplished in terms of actually changing the course of history. Changing the discussion? Who just slapped the ever living shit out of the highest paid minion in the central government in front of all of his friends?

It sure wasn't any of the machine's offerings. Huh uh.

And it doesnlt even matter how it pans out. The course of history is now changed forever. And people can't unsee it. They can't unhear it. Sure, they can cry sour grapes. But that's only because they have to.

Who is the best member of Congress? I'd venture to say Thomas Masie. His voting record speaks for itself.

Do you really think he's a Republican?

The same people who worked tirelessly to get Rand in there are the same people who worked tirelessly to get Thomas in there. Last year you had Pelosi calling him a dangerous neusance while Trump was calling for him to be thrown out of the Republican party in synergy.

Theres a reason for that. It's the same reason Pelosi gave Trump everything he wanted in what was at the time the highest spending bill in history while she was 'impeaching' him in front of the television cameras. I had a thread about that some place around here. Of course, it ws all crickets, predictably. And that's okay. It's perfectly fine.

Of course, I'm talking about elections, even though I mentoned that wasn't really where the importance lied. But that's the topic, so I chose those two examples for convenience sake.

I agree that a lot gets done behind the the scenes on a daily basis. Issues that are never brought up on USMB and issues that most Americans don’t even know are up for a vote. I keep up by subscribing to causes.com and my inbox has each bill brought to the floor daily and shows individual voting. Even though that particular site is obviously left-leaning (they are quite obvious in that respect with their polling questions) I still use it because I haven’t found an alternative source.

I also still have faith that the voting process can work effectively. It’s just going to involve a lot of watchers watching the watchers watching the watchers kind of thing. It’s sad we have to resort to those lack of trust measures, but humans just aren’t honest enough to be trusted without more checks and balances. Way too many greedy misers in the mix demanding their fill by whatever it takes to come out ahead.