Can Islam Be Civilized?

So you fail to see that religion produced Western Civilization???


Disappointing.

I only see that as a single example of a standard technique that can be used to produce Chaos /Division .

BUT the general thesis , IMHO , is that you cannot advance Civilisation without inducing very high levels of tension and stress.
And Religion is just one of several excellent ways to obtain progress --- not because of Truths it may or may not find , BUT as a result of raising people pressure and temperature and pushing people to work in groups .
Call it Luiza's Luscious Law --- the Three Ls .
Or, Luscious Luiza's Law .
 
Read your Talmud. It proves you think because you’re Jewish you can kill and steal with impunity.
You can't defend your hatred of Jews by proving that you don't know the difference between the Jew's Bible, the Torah, and the conjectures, the Talmud.

But......most of you anti-Semites are uneducated.


And I do admit to being a Zionist.
 
You can't defend your hatred of Jews by proving that you don't know the difference between the Jew's Bible, the Torah, and the conjectures, the Talmud.

But......most of you anti-Semites are uneducated.


And I do admit to being a Zionist.
I love Jews. You hate Muslims.

Who’s right?
 
I don't know much about Mohammad except his scorn against alcohol.

Is prophet a strong-smelling passable and is prophet the strong-minded one?

Tell about Mohammad?
Let's stick to the OP, both of them, and how they will guide the world.
 
I only see that as a single example of a standard technique that can be used to produce Chaos /Division .

BUT the general thesis , IMHO , is that you cannot advance Civilisation without inducing very high levels of tension and stress.
And Religion is just one of several excellent ways to obtain progress --- not because of Truths it may or may not find , BUT as a result of raising people pressure and temperature and pushing people to work in groups .
Call it Luiza's Luscious Law --- the Three Ls .
Or, Luscious Luiza's Law .
You poor thing.


Professor Gad Saad lists 8 steps necessary to make survival of
Western Civilization possible................

Number one, pursue knowledge unencumbered by ideological activism. No knowledge is forbidden if gathered objectively using the scientific method.







Number two, freedom of speech, freedom of inquiry, and the pursuit of truth are deontological principles. For those of you who don't know what deontological means, it's an absolute statement. So if I say it is never okay to lie, that would be a deontological statement. If I say it is okay to lie to spare someone's feelings, that would be a consequentialist statement. For many things, it's perfectly fine to be a consequentialist. But when it comes to

freedom of speech, it has to be a deontological principle. You don't say, "I believe in freedom of speech, but as long as it doesn't hurt someone's feelings, then you are being a consequentialist."











Number three, a just society is rooted in the ethos of a meritocracy.

Some of us are taller, shorter, harder working, less hardworking, more assertive, less. That's why we create hierarchies. So, communism has failed everywhere that it's been tried because it is literally anti-human nature.







Number four, proudly and unequivocally, defend western values. Be proud of the west.







Number five, all cultures and religions are not equal. This comes from

cultural relativism. Cultural relativism is a relativistic position. It says,

"Who are you to judge the beliefs and norms and practices of another society?

If another society wishes to cut off the clitorises of 5-year-old girls, shut up,

racist." Okay. No, there are absolute moral truths and defend those proudly.







Number six, exhibit zero tolerance for seditious belief systems.

So you can't allow your society to be totally destroyed because any ideology that comes along masquerading as a religion, but that will totally destroy all of us when it becomes in the majority, you allow it to

flourish.







Number seven, adaptive empathy is wonderful. Suicidal empathy will destroy our civilization. That mean that one need to carefully consider where to apply emp- athy, and what the consequences of same will be.





And finally, number eight, all beliefs, all ideas, all ideologies are open to criticism,

debate, mockery, ridicule, and other forms of scrutiny, including every policy, every religion and every opinion.

Nothing is sacrosanct.











 
So who or what can solve the millennia old problems with radical Islam?

Simple: an amazing businessman/President who solves problems.



1. To make the IMEC possible, Iran and its proxies, and Gaza have to be pacified, so that Saudi Arabia is comfortable joint the West in the project. You see Iran being dealt with today.



2. AI Overview
  • On November 17, 2025, the UN Security Council adopted Resolution 2803, formally endorsing the U.S.-backed "Board of Peace" (BoP) as a transitional administration for Gaza's reconstruction and security, following a two-year conflict. Initiated by U.S. President Donald Trump, this board is designed to oversee, fund, and stabilize the territory until the Palestinian Authority completes reforms


3. Trump is chairman for life. 26 nations gave $billion each to join, No nations who do not join will use the IMEC “New Silk Road.”
  • Haifa and Gaza will be the terminus with Gaza as a commercial hub and “New Middle East Riviera.”


4. Now, about that new demilitarize and “terror free” Gaza?
  • The Board of Peace appointed Jasper Jeffers as the commander of the International Stabilization Force, former head of Special Forces, with a
  • 20,000 man private military…………and Egypt and Jordan will train a 12,000 man police force.


5. Can the combined pressure of Trump's Western coalition and the Middle East contingnent actually solve the problem of Islamic bloodlust?????????



One can only hope.

I haven't checked lately, so going by older info the US has about 12 years of proven reserves at current production rates while Saudi Arabis has about 6 times that. Iran maybe 4/5's of the Saudi's. Venezuela has the largest estimated reserves in the world currently. I've been an advocate of keeping as much of our own oil in the ground as possible, as a reserve, while using up ME oil until it's gone, and they are no longer relevant.

So, my interest in this is whether or not it is worth the long term expense and trouble of building and defending the India-Europe corridor, as long as the Saudi and its neighbors are conducive to organizing, and many of them are, then all the infrastructure can be concentrated on an east-west axis on the western side of the strait and Iran is no longer strategically important and thus no need to cater to them. Our Asian allies are going to be well served from Alaska re LNG developments there, and with Venezuela now back in play pipelines from there to the Pacific can relieve the Panama Canal bottleneck; Canada can suck it up and run their own pipelines to the west coast as well.

In any case, I would much rather spend the efforts on isolating Russia and Iran and avoid messing with Iraq any more as well. Kazakhstan and that region can also bypass Iraq and Iran, but they're being courted by Red China and border Russia, so they wouldn't be too reliable. But the eastern Med is easier to defend than the gulf and the land route to India, with PAkistan, Afghanistan in the way to endlessly extort everybody, I would guess it would be a lot easier and cheaper to pacify Yemeni savages and Oman than screw with a land route from the Gulf to India and defend it. India, China, and the assorted mini-Stans are all constantly at each other throats as it is. They all view requests for negotiations as weakness, so treaties and agreements with the savages are worthless. Force will be necessary and a willingness to use it. We already see that with Iran and nearly everybody else in the region, except for Egypt and Jordan.
 
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I love Jews. You hate Muslims.

Who’s right?
But which of these Muslims do you love????




40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailweekly.asp?fileid=20060728.@03 https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/10/06/violence-in-defense-of-islam-statistics/



Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
Challenging the myth of a 'tiny minority of extremists'
www.thereligionofpeace.com



*much more here:

Challenging the myth of a 'tiny minority of extremists'
www.thereligionofpeace.com












www.thereligionofpeace.com



Islam is a peaceful religion because most Muslims live peacefully and that only a "tiny minority of extremists" practice violence? That's like saying that White supremacy must be perfectly fine since only a tiny minority of racists ever hurt anyone. Neither does it explain why religious violence is largely endemic to Islam, despite the tremendous persecution of religious minorities in Muslim countries.

In truth, even a tiny minority of "1%" of Muslims worldwide translates to 15 million believers - which is hardly an insignificant number. However, the "minority" of Muslims who approve of terrorists, their goals, or their means of achieving them is much greater than this. In fact, it isn't even a true minority in some cases, depending on how goals and targets are defined. Muslim Opinion Polls







Still, we need only look to the many polls to affirm the alarmingly high percentages of Muslims (hundreds-of-millions in number) who seek, through the most violent means imaginable, Islamic world domination. Again, here are but a few:

83 percent of Palestinian Muslims, 62 percent of Jordanians and 61 percent of Egyptians approve of jihadist attacks on Americans. World Public Opinion Poll(2009).

1.5 Million British Muslims support the Islamic State, about half their total population. ICM (Mirror) Poll 2015.

Two-thirds of Palestinians support the stabbing of Israeli civilians. Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (2015).

38.6 percent of Western Muslims believe 9/11 attacks were justified. Gallup(2011).

45 percent of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent “mainstream Islam.” BBC Radio (2015).

38 percent of Muslim-Americans say Islamic State (ISIS) beliefs are Islamic or correct. (Forty-three percent disagree.) The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015).

One-third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam. Center for Social Cohesion (Wikileaks cable).

78 percent of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons. NOP Research.

80 percent of young Dutch Muslims see nothing wrong with holy war against non-believers. Most verbalized support for pro-Islamic State fighters. Motivaction Survey (2014).

Nearly one-third of Muslim-Americans agree that violence against those who insult Muhammad or the Quran is acceptable. The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015).

68 percent of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam. NOP Research.

51 percent of Muslim-Americans say that Muslims should have the choice of being judged by Shariah courts rather than courts of the United States (only 39 percent disagree).The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015).

81 percent of Muslim respondents support the Islamic State (ISIS). Al-Jazeerapoll (2015).

Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster and the moderate Muslim: Even as we hear of the occasional sighting, most reasonable people remain skeptical as to whether, in reality, these mysterious creatures even exist.

townhall.com












“When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.”– The Quran, Surah 9:5When it comes
townhall.com




townhall.com
 
A better more educated question is can Zionism be civilized.

I think not. Just as its sister ideology Nazism, it has to be destroyed.
Refering to Isreal as Zion is like calling the United States, Bunker hill.

It is a term with no meaning to anybody. The Jews no way are nazis.
 
I haven't checked lately, so going by older info the US has about 12 years of proven reserves at current production rates while Saudi Arabis has about 6 times that. Iran maybe 4/5's of the Saudi's. Venezuela has the largest estimated reserves in the world currently. I've been an advocate of keeping as much of our own oil in the ground as possible, as a reserve, while using up ME oil until it's gone, and they are no longer relevant.

So, my interest in this is whether or not it is worth the long term expense and trouble of building and defending the India-Europe corridor, as long as the Saudi and its neighbors are conducive to organizing, and many of them are, then all the infrastructure can be concentrated on an east-west axis on the western side of the strait and Iran is no longer strategically important and thus no need to cater to them. Our Asian allies are going to be well served from Alaska re LNG developments there, and with Venezuela now back in play pipelines from there to the Pacific can relieve the Panama Canal bottleneck; Canada can suck it up and run their own pipelines to the west coast as well.

In any case, I would much rather spend the efforts on isolating Russia and Iran and avoid messing with Iraq any more as well. Kazakhstan and that region can also bypass Iraq and Iran, but they're being courted by Red China and border Russia, so they wouldn't be too reliable. But the eastern Med is easier to defend than the gulf and the land route to India, with PAkistan, Afghanistan in the way to endlessly extort everybody, I would guess it would be a lot easier and cheaper to pacify Yemeni savages and Oman than screw with a land route from the Gulf to India and defend it. India, China, and the Stans are all constantly at each other throats as it is.
So you are fine with Russia co-opting all of Europe with their gas and oil?
 
I haven't checked lately, so going by older info the US has about 12 years of proven reserves at current production rates while Saudi Arabis has about 6 times that. Iran maybe 4/5's of the Saudi's. Venezuela has the largest estimated reserves in the world currently. I've been an advocate of keeping as much of our own oil in the ground as possible, as a reserve, while using up ME oil until it's gone, and they are no longer relevant.

So, my interest in this is whether or not it is worth the long term expense and trouble of building and defending the India-Europe corridor, as long as the Saudi and its neighbors are conducive to organizing, and many of them are, then all the infrastructure can be concentrated on an east-west axis on the western side of the strait and Iran is no longer strategically important and thus no need to cater to them. Our Asian allies are going to be well served from Alaska re LNG developments there, and with Venezuela now back in play pipelines from there to the Pacific can relieve the Panama Canal bottleneck; Canada can suck it up and run their own pipelines to the west coast as well.

In any case, I would much rather spend the efforts on isolating Russia and Iran and avoid messing with Iraq any more as well. Kazakhstan and that region can also bypass Iraq and Iran, but they're being courted by Red China and border Russia, so they wouldn't be too reliable. But the eastern Med is easier to defend than the gulf and the land route to India, with PAkistan, Afghanistan in the way to endlessly extort everybody, I would guess it would be a lot easier and cheaper to pacify Yemeni savages and Oman than screw with a land route from the Gulf to India and defend it. India, China, and the assorted mini-Stans are all constantly at each other throats as it is. They all view requests for negotiations as weakness, so treaties and agreements with the savages are worthless. Force will be necessary and a willingness to use it. We already see that with Iran and nearly everybody else in the region, except for Egypt and Jordan.
America has been down to 12 years reserves for at least half a century.
 
But which of these Muslims do you love????




40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailweekly.asp?fileid=20060728.@03 https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/10/06/violence-in-defense-of-islam-statistics/



Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
Challenging the myth of a 'tiny minority of extremists'
www.thereligionofpeace.com



*much more here:

Challenging the myth of a 'tiny minority of extremists'
www.thereligionofpeace.com












www.thereligionofpeace.com



Islam is a peaceful religion because most Muslims live peacefully and that only a "tiny minority of extremists" practice violence? That's like saying that White supremacy must be perfectly fine since only a tiny minority of racists ever hurt anyone. Neither does it explain why religious violence is largely endemic to Islam, despite the tremendous persecution of religious minorities in Muslim countries.

In truth, even a tiny minority of "1%" of Muslims worldwide translates to 15 million believers - which is hardly an insignificant number. However, the "minority" of Muslims who approve of terrorists, their goals, or their means of achieving them is much greater than this. In fact, it isn't even a true minority in some cases, depending on how goals and targets are defined. Muslim Opinion Polls







Still, we need only look to the many polls to affirm the alarmingly high percentages of Muslims (hundreds-of-millions in number) who seek, through the most violent means imaginable, Islamic world domination. Again, here are but a few:

83 percent of Palestinian Muslims, 62 percent of Jordanians and 61 percent of Egyptians approve of jihadist attacks on Americans. World Public Opinion Poll(2009).

1.5 Million British Muslims support the Islamic State, about half their total population. ICM (Mirror) Poll 2015.

Two-thirds of Palestinians support the stabbing of Israeli civilians. Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (2015).

38.6 percent of Western Muslims believe 9/11 attacks were justified. Gallup(2011).

45 percent of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent “mainstream Islam.” BBC Radio (2015).

38 percent of Muslim-Americans say Islamic State (ISIS) beliefs are Islamic or correct. (Forty-three percent disagree.) The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015).

One-third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam. Center for Social Cohesion (Wikileaks cable).

78 percent of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons. NOP Research.

80 percent of young Dutch Muslims see nothing wrong with holy war against non-believers. Most verbalized support for pro-Islamic State fighters. Motivaction Survey (2014).

Nearly one-third of Muslim-Americans agree that violence against those who insult Muhammad or the Quran is acceptable. The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015).

68 percent of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam. NOP Research.

51 percent of Muslim-Americans say that Muslims should have the choice of being judged by Shariah courts rather than courts of the United States (only 39 percent disagree).The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015).

81 percent of Muslim respondents support the Islamic State (ISIS). Al-Jazeerapoll (2015).

Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster and the moderate Muslim: Even as we hear of the occasional sighting, most reasonable people remain skeptical as to whether, in reality, these mysterious creatures even exist.

townhall.com












“When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.”– The Quran, Surah 9:5When it comes
townhall.com




townhall.com
Now tell us about the Israelis.
 
Now tell us about the Israelis.
Us" ????????????


Who voted you as the spokesperson.


While the liberal mob engages in the kind of violence that one expects of a mob, there is also a species of intellectual mob that relies on praise and ridicule to enforce its views: they rely on the axiom that large segments of the population would rather be punched in the face than be sneered at by the elites. We call them liberals.

The mob mentality is irresistible to people with a desperate need to be popular, and are perennially afraid of getting a bloody nose on the playground of life. A tell-tale sign is the use of terms like “us” and “we” when they write, or speak…as these pronouns speak of popularity, of membership in the larger group…i.e. the mob.

In fact, an easy way to identify a conservative, is to look for the folks who aren’t afraid to be sneered at by “The Daily Show” and the other temples of the status-anxious. Conservatives are not susceptible to groupthink. Jon Stewart transmits the party line to idiots so they know who to hate. The act of applauding a joke rather than laughing at it is a public gesture that serves no purpose other than assuring everyone that you are part of the group. See chapter 14 of "Demonic," by Coulter.

People desperate for a badge of identity are highly susceptible to groupthink, in fierce need of a ‘guide,’ and, so, the “foolish, ignorant, and envious persons are freed from the sense of their insignificance and powerlessness.” Le Bon, “The Crowd: A Study of The Popular Mind,” p.22.
 
So you are fine with Russia co-opting all of Europe with their gas and oil?

Where did I say that? I'm all for isolating Russia.

I said we would do better keeping and defending a route from the western side of the Straits than trying to run one through to India. Europeans don't need to ship thought India, they can ship via the MEd, and there are plans for pipelines from Libya and other places.
 
Us" ????????????


Who voted you as the spokesperson.


While the liberal mob engages in the kind of violence that one expects of a mob, there is also a species of intellectual mob that relies on praise and ridicule to enforce its views: they rely on the axiom that large segments of the population would rather be punched in the face than be sneered at by the elites. We call them liberals.

The mob mentality is irresistible to people with a desperate need to be popular, and are perennially afraid of getting a bloody nose on the playground of life. A tell-tale sign is the use of terms like “us” and “we” when they write, or speak…as these pronouns speak of popularity, of membership in the larger group…i.e. the mob.

In fact, an easy way to identify a conservative, is to look for the folks who aren’t afraid to be sneered at by “The Daily Show” and the other temples of the status-anxious. Conservatives are not susceptible to groupthink. Jon Stewart transmits the party line to idiots so they know who to hate. The act of applauding a joke rather than laughing at it is a public gesture that serves no purpose other than assuring everyone that you are part of the group. See chapter 14 of "Demonic," by Coulter.

People desperate for a badge of identity are highly susceptible to groupthink, in fierce need of a ‘guide,’ and, so, the “foolish, ignorant, and envious persons are freed from the sense of their insignificance and powerlessness.” Le Bon, “The Crowd: A Study of The Popular Mind,” p.22.
So, nothing?
 
15th post
You poor thing.


Professor Gad Saad lists 8 steps necessary to make survival of
Western Civilization possible................

I value my own intellect considerably higher than that of a verbose wet Salad .
But he was right and sufficient to say that
Nothing is Sacrosant .

The rest is padding and is there to justify his salary .
imho .
 
America has been down to 12 years reserves for at least half a century.

And who knows when the broken clock will finally be right. Proven reserves matter, fantasies don't. Keep the foreign oil cheap and we do fine. Sooner or later Putin falls, the Mullahs fall, and new deals are made.
 
And who knows when the broken clock will finally be right. Proven reserves matter, fantasies don't.

Crude oil creation did not stop on a dime million of years back. IT is renewable.

So? You have to punch holes in the ground, and in the US very deep ones. Guess how much time and money that costs? Drilling for what is known to already be there is a lot cheaper. With the ME having thousands of wells already pumping, then use it. We found most of it for them in the first place, and we're why they haven't been wiped out by the Soviets or each other. We deserve a discount.
 

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