Can Atheists be Moral?

[hobelim]

Ding and I have been arguing about religion for like friggin forever!

We're not dropping bombs and killing each other over it, we're just having a silly discussion that will never end...

Why did peeps back then need to kill each other over it? And to this day?

Why couldn't they, like, come to an agreement to disagree?

It wasn’t until Moses was the first person to claim he saw god. Until that people pondered but no one ever claimed to definitely know

But remember even canabals on remote islands were sacrificing women to their gods before that.

I think god made the most sense when it was the sun. The sun is god to us. We would give thanks during the day and pray at night it would return tomorrow.

Moses was the first Jew to record the account of Genesis. It had been passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years.

No someone else was the first to record the Moses character and supposedly Moses spoke to or saw god.

Show me Moses writings. His original copy. Notes. Scribbles. Anything from moses

They just found this scribble with a collection of doodles and a decoder ring buried in a cave by the red sea. The word "religion" is in the back (must be the title) and its signed Moishe.

Now archeologists are feverishly searching for the town of the boy who cried wolf.

Do you see how he lied about Moses? I can’t wait for clarification on the claim that Moses is the first Jew to officially start recording genesis.

The guy is half right.. It is widely assumed that Moses authored the first books of the bible.

He is wrong that what he wrote was based on oral traditions, even though he borrowed plots and characters from existing stories.

What Moses wrote in a state of enlightenment was based on his unique experiences with God after living half of his life in the darkness of a world that was without form and void.


The talking serpent was not an imaginary mythological being from China ( ding is such an idiot) To Moses who knew the pharaoh who wore a serpent on his head personally, satan, the enemy, and the danger of losing your sanity and free will for life to the practitioners of the magical arts, sorcery,(mind control) , was and still is very real...

 

[danielpalos]

women who can make and keep appointments, must be moral.

 

[sealybobo]

women who can make and keep appointments, must be moral.

I just heard a line in a movie. No one is all good or all bad.

 

[Unkotare]

women who can make and keep appointments, must be moral.

I just heard a line in a movie. No one is all good or all bad.

 

[sealybobo]

women who can make and keep appointments, must be moral.

I just heard a line in a movie. No one is all good or all bad.

The movie I was watching was an old western

 

[danielpalos]

women who can make and keep appointments, must be moral.

I just heard a line in a movie. No one is all good or all bad.

can she keep her word?

 

[badger2]

Bonzi: "You are happier when you are living for someone other than yourself."

'Salvation, for Deleuze, entails the dissolution of the self, a becoming inhuman. As the unity of god is the self's only guarantee (as a product of god), the death of god brings about a cracking of the self that fractures and 'installs and interiorises within' the self as 'essential dissimilarity.' Instead of an essential unity, the self liberated from the judgement of god is 'carried away by the verbs of pure becoming and slides into the language of events.' Against the 'faith' that would resurrect or heal the self, Deleuze could be seen as advocating another 'theological' self, a self resting in the dead god (a mad self waiting and dreaming with dead Cthuhlu), where 'a different and more mortuary betrothal between the dead god and the dissolved self forms the true condition by default and the true metamorphosis of the agent.' Such a transformation of the self -- where a traditional theology would allow no such transformations, no werewolves -- is an imperative to becoming-nonhuman, becoming-nonpersonal, becoming transparent to the [plane of immanence....the other side of salvific transformation for Deleuze is the affirmation of life -- the belief in the world. Whereas christianity, on Deleuze's Nietzschean accounting 'christian nihilism,' would judge life to either justify it or to accuse it, Deleuze's Nietzschean-Spinozist ethic of immanent modes of existence works to increase the power to live.'
(Simpson, Deleuze and Theology)

 

[sealybobo]

Bonzi: "You are happier when you are living for someone other than yourself."

'Salvation, for Deleuze, entails the dissolution of the self, a becoming inhuman. As the unity of god is the self's only guarantee (as a product of god), the death of god brings about a cracking of the self that fractures and 'installs and interiorises within' the self as 'essential dissimilarity.' Instead of an essential unity, the self liberated from the judgement of god is 'carried away by the verbs of pure becoming and slides into the language of events.' Against the 'faith' that would resurrect or heal the self, Deleuze could be seen as advocating another 'theological' self, a self resting in the dead god (a mad self waiting and dreaming with dead Cthuhlu), where 'a different and more mortuary betrothal between the dead god and the dissolved self forms the true condition by default and the true metamorphosis of the agent.' Such a transformation of the self -- where a traditional theology would allow no such transformations, no werewolves -- is an imperative to becoming-nonhuman, becoming-nonpersonal, becoming transparent to the [plane of immanence....the other side of salvific transformation for Deleuze is the affirmation of life -- the belief in the world. Whereas christianity, on Deleuze's Nietzschean accounting 'christian nihilism,' would judge life to either justify it or to accuse it, Deleuze's Nietzschean-Spinozist ethic of immanent modes of existence works to increase the power to live.'
(Simpson, Deleuze and Theology)

I would like to believe that when I die I will live forever in paradise and see my mother and grandmother again.

I would love to believe that.

It would be great if I could believe that.

Oh Lordy

 

[ding]

Ding and I have been arguing about religion for like friggin forever!

We're not dropping bombs and killing each other over it, we're just having a silly discussion that will never end...

Why did peeps back then need to kill each other over it? And to this day?

Why couldn't they, like, come to an agreement to disagree?

It wasn’t until Moses was the first person to claim he saw god. Until that people pondered but no one ever claimed to definitely know

But remember even canabals on remote islands were sacrificing women to their gods before that.

I think god made the most sense when it was the sun. The sun is god to us. We would give thanks during the day and pray at night it would return tomorrow.

We have been pondering shit since we had the ability to look into the sky, and wonder why. And we made some unwise choices based on that.

This is the best video I have found so far to explain, what you said, and the truth.

Actually we are hardwired to worship. It’s in our nature. Absent worshipping a creator we will worship man. Why do you think Kings existed?

So your explanation turns out to be too simplistic.

In fact, the reason both of you post here is that you are subconsciously drawn to discussing God. You secretly desire to be convinced. There’s something missing in your lives and you don’t even know it but you can feel it.

As far as atheists go, the ones who post here arguing against God are in the minority. You are the minority within the minority.

The rest are either at peace or are too busy with their day to day lives.

People don’t believe in God because they ponder their existence. People believe in God because they were made to worship God.

Your problem is that you don’t understand what worship means because I am certain the original meaning of worshiping is lost on you. Of course it is lost on most people which is why the world is the way it is.

My argument, is if you would let it be, and not create "gods" and "religions", the world would be a much better place.

How is your religion more right than, say, Islam ofrJudaism?

You have an idealized view of a path not taken.

The problem is we do have examples of godless societies and it was never any good.

 

[ding]

Ding and I have been arguing about religion for like friggin forever!

We're not dropping bombs and killing each other over it, we're just having a silly discussion that will never end...

Why did peeps back then need to kill each other over it? And to this day?

Why couldn't they, like, come to an agreement to disagree?

It wasn’t until Moses was the first person to claim he saw god. Until that people pondered but no one ever claimed to definitely know

But remember even canabals on remote islands were sacrificing women to their gods before that.

I think god made the most sense when it was the sun. The sun is god to us. We would give thanks during the day and pray at night it would return tomorrow.

Moses was the first Jew to record the account of Genesis. It had been passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years.

No someone else was the first to record the Moses character and supposedly Moses spoke to or saw god.

Show me Moses writings. His original copy. Notes. Scribbles. Anything from moses

Oh sure let me pull that out of my hip pocket because I always walk around with ancient texts.

I really couldn’t care less if you believe that Moses was the first Jew to record the account of Genesis in writing or that the account of Genesis had been passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years before Moses recorded it in writing.

I also couldn’t care less if you believe that was how ancient man captured and shared not only historical information but wisdoms that were revealed to them.

It isn’t my loss. It’s yours.

 

[ding]

Ding and I have been arguing about religion for like friggin forever!

We're not dropping bombs and killing each other over it, we're just having a silly discussion that will never end...

Why did peeps back then need to kill each other over it? And to this day?

Why couldn't they, like, come to an agreement to disagree?

It wasn’t until Moses was the first person to claim he saw god. Until that people pondered but no one ever claimed to definitely know

But remember even canabals on remote islands were sacrificing women to their gods before that.

I think god made the most sense when it was the sun. The sun is god to us. We would give thanks during the day and pray at night it would return tomorrow.

We have been pondering shit since we had the ability to look into the sky, and wonder why. And we made some unwise choices based on that.

This is the best video I have found so far to explain, what you said, and the truth.

Actually we are hardwired to worship. It’s in our nature. Absent worshipping a creator we will worship man. Why do you think Kings existed?

So your explanation turns out to be too simplistic.

In fact, the reason both of you post here is that you are subconsciously drawn to discussing God. You secretly desire to be convinced. There’s something missing in your lives and you don’t even know it but you can feel it.

As far as atheists go, the ones who post here arguing against God are in the minority. You are the minority within the minority.

The rest are either at peace or are too busy with their day to day lives.

People don’t believe in God because they ponder their existence. People believe in God because they were made to worship God.

Your problem is that you don’t understand what worship means because I am certain the original meaning of worshiping is lost on you. Of course it is lost on most people which is why the world is the way it is.

So we are born to be herded sheep, followers, group mentality.

Yes, to most people it’s not that important in their lives. They willfully ignorantly just believe because they want to and they were brainwashed by others

I wonder if two people were born on a deserted island if they would come up with god. They may look around and ignorantly believe the world was made for them. They may even worship the sun. I do

Actually quite the opposite. You were born to be herded sheep. You only think you aren’t but the poor quality of your arguments says otherwise.

 

[ding]

Ding and I have been arguing about religion for like friggin forever!

We're not dropping bombs and killing each other over it, we're just having a silly discussion that will never end...

Why did peeps back then need to kill each other over it? And to this day?

Why couldn't they, like, come to an agreement to disagree?

It wasn’t until Moses was the first person to claim he saw god. Until that people pondered but no one ever claimed to definitely know

But remember even canabals on remote islands were sacrificing women to their gods before that.

I think god made the most sense when it was the sun. The sun is god to us. We would give thanks during the day and pray at night it would return tomorrow.

We have been pondering shit since we had the ability to look into the sky, and wonder why. And we made some unwise choices based on that.

This is the best video I have found so far to explain, what you said, and the truth.

Actually we are hardwired to worship. It’s in our nature. Absent worshipping a creator we will worship man. Why do you think Kings existed?

So your explanation turns out to be too simplistic.

In fact, the reason both of you post here is that you are subconsciously drawn to discussing God. You secretly desire to be convinced. There’s something missing in your lives and you don’t even know it but you can feel it.

As far as atheists go, the ones who post here arguing against God are in the minority. You are the minority within the minority.

The rest are either at peace or are too busy with their day to day lives.

People don’t believe in God because they ponder their existence. People believe in God because they were made to worship God.

Your problem is that you don’t understand what worship means because I am certain the original meaning of worshiping is lost on you. Of course it is lost on most people which is why the world is the way it is.

My argument, is if you would let it be, and not create "gods" and "religions", the world would be a much better place.

How is your religion more right than, say, Islam of Judaism. ?

Why are you right and everyone else is wrong?

You mean the vast majority of all humans who have ever walked this planet believing in a higher power than man?

It seems your question applies more to you than to me.

 

[james bond]

women who can make and keep appointments, must be moral.

I just heard a line in a movie. No one is all good or all bad.

Based on a true story.

<bends down and writes with his finger in the dirt>

He rises and says, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

One by one the people who came to watch and participate in the execution leave until the accused woman and the man are the only ones left.

"Is there no one to accuse you of the crime, woman?" he asks.

"No one."

"Then you are free to go, but don't do it again."

 

[ding]

women who can make and keep appointments, must be moral.

I just heard a line in a movie. No one is all good or all bad.

A movie, huh.

 

[ding]

Bonzi: "You are happier when you are living for someone other than yourself."

'Salvation, for Deleuze, entails the dissolution of the self, a becoming inhuman. As the unity of god is the self's only guarantee (as a product of god), the death of god brings about a cracking of the self that fractures and 'installs and interiorises within' the self as 'essential dissimilarity.' Instead of an essential unity, the self liberated from the judgement of god is 'carried away by the verbs of pure becoming and slides into the language of events.' Against the 'faith' that would resurrect or heal the self, Deleuze could be seen as advocating another 'theological' self, a self resting in the dead god (a mad self waiting and dreaming with dead Cthuhlu), where 'a different and more mortuary betrothal between the dead god and the dissolved self forms the true condition by default and the true metamorphosis of the agent.' Such a transformation of the self -- where a traditional theology would allow no such transformations, no werewolves -- is an imperative to becoming-nonhuman, becoming-nonpersonal, becoming transparent to the [plane of immanence....the other side of salvific transformation for Deleuze is the affirmation of life -- the belief in the world. Whereas christianity, on Deleuze's Nietzschean accounting 'christian nihilism,' would judge life to either justify it or to accuse it, Deleuze's Nietzschean-Spinozist ethic of immanent modes of existence works to increase the power to live.'
(Simpson, Deleuze and Theology)

Confront reality. Die to self.

And stop reading pseudo intellectual bullshit of bullshitters.

 

[Bonzi]

Atheists probably adopt the "general agreement" on morality. Morality without God, is defined by society. Not to say it will be accepted by all, but, nothing is absolute.

The only reason for morality in a godless society is for the benefit and that society. The only reason for morality in a godless person is for the benefit of the person. No one is self sacrificial for others for no reason, as, we are all selfish by nature.

First, long time no see b.

2. Morality with god is defined by the people who invented the religion. Are you suggesting god told your cult what morality is and is not? How come he didn’t teach you not to be mean to gays? He didn’t cover that. He only told you gay sex is bad.

3. Why are you moral besides for your own benefit? I want to see if Christians are any different than us on your last point. Why are you moral? For selfish reasons. You want to go to heaven. I don’t need the threat of hell to make me be good.

Okay so I'm just speaking from the Christian point of view. I used to be very involved in Church, that is not to say that I am an atheist or agnostic now. I'm just (trying) to speak objectively.....

I would venture to guess that most Christians get their moral code from the Bible, the 10 commandments and such.
I would venture to guess that most of those that are not God or "other being" believers or worshipers, get their moral code from their parents, authoritative figures and society... and, of course, any built in conscience we have.

Sorry, but, I don't think people are instinctively altruistic, but the opposite, selfish. Anything we do for others is for our own benefit - e.g. to look good to others, to avoid people looking down on us or thinking badly of us, or, to make ourselves feel superior or better about ourselves.

I agree we are all selfish. Don’t think you are serving god for any other reason than to win his favor and be rewarded.

But when I do something nice for a stranger the only thing I get is I feel good about it.

Some people "serve" God because they realize that you are happier when you are living for someone other than yourself. That being said, I think you'd be happier with your focus and concern being on someone else whether it's God or just another person. So whether you are being nice to "God" or someone else, same result.

Some people aren’t happier living for someone else especially when that someone else doesn’t even exist to us.

So if we believe it’s all a lie what do you suggest us atheists do?

A secular society comes up with laws that are universal. Don’t try to push your religion on us. For example if straight can be married and get benefits from being married so should a gay couple.

The thing is, not everyone HAS to do anything. I don't think the religious right wants to force anyone to "believe", what their agenda is is what they feel is important to the health of society and, that, regardless what others believe, they believe there IS a God and that if we live HIS way and by HIS rules, that we will be the better for it. That being said, I do agree that many of the religious right USE God and their MISinterpretation of the Bible as an EXCUSE to be hateful. They are NOT really pleasing their God when they behave this way, ironically.

 

[Bonzi]

Atheists probably adopt the "general agreement" on morality. Morality without God, is defined by society. Not to say it will be accepted by all, but, nothing is absolute.

The only reason for morality in a godless society is for the benefit and that society. The only reason for morality in a godless person is for the benefit of the person. No one is self sacrificial for others for no reason, as, we are all selfish by nature.

First, long time no see b.

2. Morality with god is defined by the people who invented the religion. Are you suggesting god told your cult what morality is and is not? How come he didn’t teach you not to be mean to gays? He didn’t cover that. He only told you gay sex is bad.

3. Why are you moral besides for your own benefit? I want to see if Christians are any different than us on your last point. Why are you moral? For selfish reasons. You want to go to heaven. I don’t need the threat of hell to make me be good.

Okay so I'm just speaking from the Christian point of view. I used to be very involved in Church, that is not to say that I am an atheist or agnostic now. I'm just (trying) to speak objectively.....

I would venture to guess that most Christians get their moral code from the Bible, the 10 commandments and such.
I would venture to guess that most of those that are not God or "other being" believers or worshipers, get their moral code from their parents, authoritative figures and society... and, of course, any built in conscience we have.

Sorry, but, I don't think people are instinctively altruistic, but the opposite, selfish. Anything we do for others is for our own benefit - e.g. to look good to others, to avoid people looking down on us or thinking badly of us, or, to make ourselves feel superior or better about ourselves.

I agree we are all selfish. Don’t think you are serving god for any other reason than to win his favor and be rewarded.

But when I do something nice for a stranger the only thing I get is I feel good about it.

Some people "serve" God because they realize that you are happier when you are living for someone other than yourself. That being said, I think you'd be happier with your focus and concern being on someone else whether it's God or just another person. So whether you are being nice to "God" or someone else, same result.

In the military the commanders will give the troops sitting around chores. Good for the body and mind to have something to do rather than nothing at all.

I can see this being a positive aspect of religion. I still think overall religions control exploit manipulate and lie to people but of course there are positives to religions. This is one of them.

The problem with religion is that they are man-made, like any other organization. At least as far as any "rules" go with a religion. The lines blur between a belief and a religion.

 

[sealybobo]

Ding and I have been arguing about religion for like friggin forever!

We're not dropping bombs and killing each other over it, we're just having a silly discussion that will never end...

Why did peeps back then need to kill each other over it? And to this day?

Why couldn't they, like, come to an agreement to disagree?

It wasn’t until Moses was the first person to claim he saw god. Until that people pondered but no one ever claimed to definitely know

But remember even canabals on remote islands were sacrificing women to their gods before that.

I think god made the most sense when it was the sun. The sun is god to us. We would give thanks during the day and pray at night it would return tomorrow.

Moses was the first Jew to record the account of Genesis. It had been passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years.

No someone else was the first to record the Moses character and supposedly Moses spoke to or saw god.

Show me Moses writings. His original copy. Notes. Scribbles. Anything from moses

Oh sure let me pull that out of my hip pocket because I always walk around with ancient texts.

I really couldn’t care less if you believe that Moses was the first Jew to record the account of Genesis in writing or that the account of Genesis had been passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years before Moses recorded it in writing.

I also couldn’t care less if you believe that was how ancient man captured and shared not only historical information but wisdoms that were revealed to them.

It isn’t my loss. It’s yours.

You seem to care.

 

[ding]

Ding and I have been arguing about religion for like friggin forever!

We're not dropping bombs and killing each other over it, we're just having a silly discussion that will never end...

Why did peeps back then need to kill each other over it? And to this day?

Why couldn't they, like, come to an agreement to disagree?

It wasn’t until Moses was the first person to claim he saw god. Until that people pondered but no one ever claimed to definitely know

But remember even canabals on remote islands were sacrificing women to their gods before that.

I think god made the most sense when it was the sun. The sun is god to us. We would give thanks during the day and pray at night it would return tomorrow.

Moses was the first Jew to record the account of Genesis. It had been passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years.

No someone else was the first to record the Moses character and supposedly Moses spoke to or saw god.

Show me Moses writings. His original copy. Notes. Scribbles. Anything from moses

Oh sure let me pull that out of my hip pocket because I always walk around with ancient texts.

I really couldn’t care less if you believe that Moses was the first Jew to record the account of Genesis in writing or that the account of Genesis had been passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years before Moses recorded it in writing.

I also couldn’t care less if you believe that was how ancient man captured and shared not only historical information but wisdoms that were revealed to them.

It isn’t my loss. It’s yours.

You seem to care.

Not as much as you think.

 

[koshergrl]

Ugh look at all the evil little scumbuckets milling around on this page.

Foul, foul people.

We need a war to cull them.