Callling All 'Holocaust Deniers'!

[Delta4Embassy]

Much as I appreciate people's efforts combating denier's lies, I gotta point out they don't even believe their own propaganda. They mention it simply to hurt Jews and our friends. Thus trying to prove they wrong is pointless because they already know they're wrong. Their hatred is irrational beginning to end but they'll hurl their vile lies if they believe it hurts their enemies. So at some point ya just gotta walk away and let them rmable on. With no one listening, maybe they'll all blow their brains out realizing their continued existence itself is pointless.

 

[FlemishMaster]

Much as I appreciate people's efforts combating denier's lies, I gotta point out they don't even believe their own propaganda. They mention it simply to hurt Jews and our friends. Thus trying to prove they wrong is pointless because they already know they're wrong. Their hatred is irrational beginning to end but they'll hurl their vile lies if they believe it hurts their enemies. So at some point ya just gotta walk away and let them rmable on. With no one listening, maybe they'll all blow their brains out realizing their continued existence itself is pointless.

While I don't advocate anybody blowing their brains out, I think you are on the whole right here: it's often pointless to debate with people who simply don't care for the facts.
That being said, I do believe it is useful and necessary for those who do believe in truth to keep speaking up and setting the record straigth.

 

[editec]

Much as I appreciate people's efforts combating denier's lies, I gotta point out they don't even believe their own propaganda. They mention it simply to hurt Jews and our friends. Thus trying to prove they wrong is pointless because they already know they're wrong. Their hatred is irrational beginning to end but they'll hurl their vile lies if they believe it hurts their enemies. So at some point ya just gotta walk away and let them rmable on. With no one listening, maybe they'll all blow their brains out realizing their continued existence itself is pointless.

I suspect that is MOSTLY true.

But bear in mind that there are some very stupid NAZIs out there.

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

In early 1944, in February, the Belzec electrocution story once more emerged.74
Finally, at the beginning of May, the New York Times repeated a story in which the
Germans were planning to construct "special baths" which were in fact gas chambers,
and in which the Hungarian Jews were to be exterminated.75 By this time, then, the
gassing claim had become cemented its most typical form.

It should be emphasized at the end of this brief review of gassing and other
extermination claims that to this point not a hint of what we would normally call evidence
had been brought forward. Nevertheless we can see emerging over time a kind of model
for extermination procedures, what we will call the shower-gas-burning sequence. The
idea that victims would be led into a bathing facility of some kind, and then be executed
(the method of execution focusing on gas more and more as time went by), and then
burned so that no trace would remain was already a very common idea by the summer of
1944.

In fairness it should also be kept in mind that the shower-gas-burning concept still
coexisted with other methods of extermination, including steam, vacuums, hammers of
air, and electrocution, which have not been alleged in many years. We should expect
therefore a heightened level of material and documentary proof in support of the gassing
allegations as opposed to the others. We will find out the extent to which this is true in
subsequent sections.

In reviewing these gassing claims we find that virtually all of them came from
anonymous sources in Poland, and that all of them were publicized and propagated by
Jewish agencies in Switzerland, London, and America.76 The conclusion that many
revisionists have drawn is that these gassing claims were therefore developed by Jewish
groups as part of a hoax.77 We would dissent from this interpretation: it is too great a
leap to suggest that these Jewish agencies, in publicizing these claims, knew them to be
false, or were publicizing them to some nefarious purpose. On the contrary, all of the
internal evidence -- letters, diaries, stray conversations -- indicate that the Western Jews
most responsible for the spread of these claims actually believed them.78 Whether these
stories were then used to pursue political ends, and specifically Zionist ends, does not by
itself discount the apparent sincerity of what these Jewish leaders were writing and
saying at the time. To put the matter simply, they were in no position to know what was
really going on: all they knew, or thought they knew, was that their co-religionists were
undergoing a terrific ordeal of persecution, and needed help.

http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres5/crowellholmes.pdf

 

[MHunterB]

http://www.holocaust-history.org/19411025-wetzel-no365/crowell.shtml

A Holocaust-denier who uses the pseudonym "Samuel Crowell" has prepared a lengthy essay on why there were no Nazi homicidal gas chambers. Among its many errors is the analysis of this document, NO-365, the Wetzel-Lohse letter describing the need for "Vergasungsapparate" ("gassing devices"). In fact, as we shall see, these are not mistakes which he makes, but examples of the intellectual dishonesty which characterizes the denial movement.

In his paper, Crowell writes: [1]


...present day arguments in favor of the mass gassing claim rarely depend on such obvious mistakes, but rather on a second order of documentation that suggests, without directly attesting, to the existence of mass gassing. 307

One example concerns a draft memo, the so-called Wetzel-Lohse correspondence, concerning conditions around Riga, and entered into the Nuremberg Military Tribunal as NO-365. The draft letter mentions putting large numbers of Jews into the Labor service, and discusses the need for building the necessary "Unterkünfte" with the appropriate "vergasungsapparate". 308 [sic] In the context of the disinfection literature, this is clearly a reference to a Labor Service hut that would be equipped with the standard Entwesungskammern for delousing clothing. 309 Yet this same document has been occasionally put forth as evidence of a homicidal gassing program, even though there is no material or documentary support for that interpretation, and even though there never were any gas chambers in Riga. 310

 

[MHunterB]

Oh, and of course when we look at the site where UG found the 'Crowell' writings - it's entitled 'Historical Revision': Historical Revisionism by Vrij Historisch Onderzoek

And this is the man who owns the site, as explained there: Germar Rudolf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MHunterB]

Again from the designed-to-appeal-to-the-English website, here is their own definition of 'Revisionism':

"In contrast to establishment historians, Revisionists claim that the German State had NO policy to exterminate the Jewish people (or anyone else) in homicidal gas chambers or by killing them through abuse or neglect."

Ein Wort zuvor für Neulinge

I think that's a pretty clear statement of the desire to exculpate the Nazis from everything they did ca 1933-1945.

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

"In a great and lonely field, opposite a solitary house within a large yard, our train
pulled up at last, and the conductor commanded the passengers to make haste and get
out. [...] [The conductor] hurried us into the one large room that made up the house,
and then into the yard. Here a great many men and women, dressed in white, received
us, the women attending the women and girls of the passengers, and the men the
others. This was another scene of bewildering confusion, parents losing their children,
and little ones crying; baggage being thrown together in one corner of the yard, heedless
of contents, which suffered in consequence; those white-clad Germans shouting
commands, always accompanied with "Quick! Quick!" -- the confused passengers
obeying all orders like meek children, only questioning now and then what was to be
done with them. And no wonder if in some minds stories arose of people being captured
by robbers, murderers, and the like. Here we had been taken to a lonely place where
only that house was to be seen; our things were taken away, our friends separated from
us; a man came to inspect us, as if to ascertain our full value; strange-looking people
driving us about like dumb animals, helpless and unresisting; children we could not see
crying in a way that suggested terrible things; ourselves driven into a little room where a
great kettle was boiling on a little stove; our clothes taken off, our bodies rubbed with a
slippery substance that could be any bad thing; a shower of warm water let down on us
without warning; again driven together to another little room where we sit, wrapped in
woolen blankets till large, coarse bags are brought in, their contents turned out, and we
see only a cloud of steam, and hear a woman's voice to dress ourselves, -- "Quick!
Quick!" -- or else we'll miss -- something we cannot hear. We are forced to pick out our
clothes from among the others, with the steam blinding us; we choke, cough, entreat the
women to give us time; they persist, "Quick! Quick! -- or you'll miss the train!" Oh, so we
really won't be murdered! They are only making us ready for the continuing of our
journey, cleaning us of all suspicions of dangerous illness. Thank God!"

Mary Antin's bewilderment at disinfection and quarantine, arising from
disorientation and novelty, is understandable, so too are the wild rumors that would
come from incomprehension and anxiety. But it must be said that such measures were
necessary: the year before Mary Antin made her passage in 1893, Hamburg had been
hard hit by a cholera epidemic, and New York City had been hit with both a cholera and
typhus epidemic.

The Germans, in the context of reorganizing the Turkish army, spent a great deal of
effort in controlling typhus and other diseases.101 The two main tools of this effort were
the Dampfdesinfektionwagens (mobile steam disinfection trucks) and the Turkish baths,
which were converted for disinfection purposes.102 The Germans used primarily sulfur
gas, which required a generator (Vergaser) that would burn the sulfur and provide the
gas.103 Already at the beginning of 1914 the Germans were using vergasen (gasify, gas)
as a synonym for begasen (fumigate).

http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres5/crowellholmes.pdf

 

[MHunterB]

No amount of anonymously-penned 'anecdotes' and faked-up 'linguistics' is going to erase the statement by the revisionists that the Nazis were not trying to kill groups of people they felt were less-than-desirable.

You apparently forget that they began the mass murder campaigns within the German population.

Action T4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"In addition to 'euthanasia' various other rationales for the programme have been offered, including eugenics, Darwinism, racial hygiene, and cost effectiveness.

The programme officially ran from September 1939[5][6] to August 1941 during which 70,273 people were killed at various extermination centres located at psychiatric hospitals in Germany and Austria.[7] After the official termination of the programme physicians in German and Austrian facilities continued many of the practices that had been instituted under the program right up until the defeat of Germany in 1945.[8][9] This 'unofficial' continuation of the Aktion T4 policies led to more than 200,000 additional deaths. In addition, technology that was developed under Aktion T4, particularly the use of lethal gas to affect large scale murder, was transferred to the medical division of the Reich Interior Ministry, along with transfers of personnel who had participated in the development of the technology.[10] This technology, the personnel and the techniques developed to deceive victims were used in the implementation of industrial killings in mobile death vans and established extermination camps"

The only reason I can see to persist in ignoring such evidence of Nazi mass murders and ethnic cleansing, etc - is to whitewash the many criminal actions of the Nazi government. And why would anyone do that? Because they truly do not believe the Nazis were wrong in committing such acts, is my best guess.

 

[bianco]

Ask the GI's, they'll tell you what was really going on;

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra1LlD5aULQ [/ame]

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

The main problem with the Gerstein statement is that one does not pick and
choose from a document. Many elements of Gerstein's statement are simply false, if we
reject these, we must legitimately ask why we should give credence to the other
elements.207 As it turns out the only part of the statement which is quoted, and
considered unambiguously true, relates to its repetition of the now conventional shower
gas-burning concept. Yet this simply means that we are using a part of Gerstein to
confirm what we already know.

The gravest structural difficulty with the Gerstein statement is that it insists on the
use of diesel engines in the generation of carbon monoxide gas for the gas chambers.
Since 1983, Friedrich Paul Berg, a professional engineer and former environmental
expert, has demonstrated that this would be a most improbable method for mass
exterminations: diesel engines emit virtually no carbon monoxide.208 These analyses, in
turn, cast grave doubts on the alleged gassings at all of the Aktion Reinhardt camps,
because, following Gerstein, diesel engines -- usually from Soviet tanks but sometimes
from submarines -- are nowadays always alleged as the means of the gas production at
these three camps.

Another point with Gerstein's statement is not that it can be shown as derivative of
contemporary Aktion Reinhardt testimonies, or that it contains many absurdities, or that
its description of the supposed 600,000 mass murders at Belzec remains essentially
uncorroborated. It is rather that Gerstein, a Zyklon technician, was attempting by his
confession to deflect guilt away from himself, which in turn proves the extent to which
Zyklon was perceived solely as a death dealing mass murder weapon at the time.210 In
this regard he was unsuccessful: after his claims were widely publicized in the press in
July, 1945, the French indicated their intention to try him as a war criminal, and Gerstein
committed suicide.

http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres5/crowellholmes.pdf

 

[MHunterB]

Got anything from actual historians - or is it all from similarly Nazi-sucking webstains?

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

Got anything from actual historians - or is it all from similarly Nazi-sucking webstains?

Neither Hilberg or Van Pelt are historians

Historians are afraid to touch the holocaust because they know they will get vilified and attacked by the crazy zionist goons

 

[jillian]

Anyone who has ever entered Birkenau has felt something of what the Holocaust really meant - its industrialism, its scale, its dedication to inhumanity and barbarism.

Few documents can convey the horror or the enormity of the killing.

Certainly posting this kind of gibberish (Why invite nutcase deniers to comment? What is with the numbers?!) doesn't do a great deal to improve our understanding of perhaps the most traumatic event of the 20th century.

and therein lies the issue... it isn't up for discussion. it shouldn't be up for discussion except insofar as passing the facts on from generation to generation. their input should be ignored... as should the input of all hate-filled liars.

they should be ridiculed...not debated

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

Anyone who has ever entered Birkenau has felt something of what the Holocaust really meant - its industrialism, its scale, its dedication to inhumanity and barbarism.

Few documents can convey the horror or the enormity of the killing.

Certainly posting this kind of gibberish (Why invite nutcase deniers to comment? What is with the numbers?!) doesn't do a great deal to improve our understanding of perhaps the most traumatic event of the 20th century.

and therein lies the issue... it isn't up for discussion. it shouldn't be up for discussion except insofar as passing the facts on from generation to generation. their input should be ignored... as should the input of all hate-filled liars.

they should be ridiculed...not debated

Huh!

 

[jillian]

Anyone who has ever entered Birkenau has felt something of what the Holocaust really meant - its industrialism, its scale, its dedication to inhumanity and barbarism.

Few documents can convey the horror or the enormity of the killing.

Certainly posting this kind of gibberish (Why invite nutcase deniers to comment? What is with the numbers?!) doesn't do a great deal to improve our understanding of perhaps the most traumatic event of the 20th century.

and therein lies the issue... it isn't up for discussion. it shouldn't be up for discussion except insofar as passing the facts on from generation to generation. their input should be ignored... as should the input of all hate-filled liars.

they should be ridiculed...not debated

Huh!

So you think holocaust deniers should be treated as though anything they have to say is of value?

 

[Swagger]

The same attitude used to be applied to those who questioned the earth being flat.

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

and therein lies the issue... it isn't up for discussion. it shouldn't be up for discussion except insofar as passing the facts on from generation to generation. their input should be ignored... as should the input of all hate-filled liars.

they should be ridiculed...not debated

Huh!

So you think holocaust deniers should be treated as though anything they have to say is of value?

There's no such animal as a holocaust denier

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Many of those other facts that the OP listed? The American military is guilty of much the same things when it "conquers" a nation as well. War is hell.

amen to that.

that last sentence and that picture there which Bush sr authorized the military to do and Obama of course wont prosecute him for,that sentence and that picture there make way too much sense for them to comprehend.

that Op sounds like the way OUR military here in the united states treats people around the world that have done nothing to them whatsoever.those numbers have indeed been inflated over the course of history by the establishment who gets to write history.

whats hysterical about that OP piece is that the source being used is the new york times,the lamestream media such as the new york times is controlled by the CIA as you well know and this is the source that is being used? comedy gold.

people like this thread starter dont get it that the media is nothing but a TOOL for the government. they have been programmed by the CIA controlled media their whole lives they cant grasp that. so many people here are so ignorant about the true intentions of the CIA they dont understand what their TRUE operation is.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Vatican Holocaust Files (Gordon Duff) - YouTube

You did an excellent job taking these government apologists on this thread with these two videos. talk about holocaust deniers here.the so called holocaust deniars as you just proved in this first video,are the united states government apologists on this thread defending the OP of this thread. the zionists with the help of mass murderers Eisenhower,FDR,and Stalin are the people posters on this thread ignoring the atrocites they committed.

I notice they have no answers for any of these facts in these videos. In normal cowardly fashion,they wont try and refute the facts in them.they know they are cornered and have been taken to school by you so all they can do is call you a nutcase,ect,ect.