California storms prompt questions about accuracy of seasonal predictions

1srelluc

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Nov 21, 2021
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Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Coming into this winter, California was mired in a three-year drought, with forecasts offering little hope of relief anytime soon. Fast forward to today, and the state is waterlogged with as much as 10 to 20 inches of rain and up to 200 inches of snow that have fallen in some locations in the past three weeks. The drought isn’t over, but parched farmland and declining reservoir levels have been supplanted by raging rivers and deadly flooding.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Climate Prediction Center (CPC) issues seasonal forecasts of precipitation and temperature for one to 13 months into the future. The CPC’s initial outlook for this winter, issued on Oct. 20, favored below-normal precipitation in Southern California and did not lean toward either drier- or wetter-than-normal conditions in Northern California.

However, after a series of intense moisture-laden storms known as atmospheric rivers, most of California has seen rainfall totals 200 to 600 percent above normal over the past month, with 24 trillion gallons of water having fallen in the state since late December.

The stark contrast between the staggering amount of precipitation in recent weeks and the CPC’s seasonal precipitation outlook issued before the winter, which leaned toward below-normal precipitation for at least half of California, has water managers lamenting the unreliability of seasonal forecasts.

“You have no idea come Dec. 1 what your winter is going to look like because our seasonal forecasts are so bad,” said Jeffrey Mount, a senior fellow with the Public Policy Institute of California’s Water Policy Center, in an interview. “They are just not reliable enough to make definitive water supply decisions.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/01/15/california-seasonal-forecasts-noaa-missed/

But they know for dead certain that temperatures are rising 5 degrees in the next 100 years and the oceans are going to rise 10 to 20 feet by the end of the century.
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Mother Nature keeps on keeping on.......................she keeps trying to burn out or flush down the disease that has taken over that state, but it just gets worse every time she tries.

She's just gonna have to end up widening that San Andreas fault to the extent Mexifornia finally slides completely under the ocean!
 
Mother Nature keeps on keeping on.......................she keeps trying to burn out or flush down the disease that has taken over that state, but it just gets worse every time she tries.

She's just gonna have to end up widening that San Andreas fault to the extent Mexifornia finally slides completely under the ocean!
you do realize your little pipe dream wont happen?....
 
Coming into this winter, California was mired in a three-year drought, with forecasts offering little hope of relief anytime soon. Fast forward to today, and the state is waterlogged with as much as 10 to 20 inches of rain and up to 200 inches of snow that have fallen in some locations in the past three weeks. The drought isn’t over, but parched farmland and declining reservoir levels have been supplanted by raging rivers and deadly flooding.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Climate Prediction Center (CPC) issues seasonal forecasts of precipitation and temperature for one to 13 months into the future. The CPC’s initial outlook for this winter, issued on Oct. 20, favored below-normal precipitation in Southern California and did not lean toward either drier- or wetter-than-normal conditions in Northern California.

However, after a series of intense moisture-laden storms known as atmospheric rivers, most of California has seen rainfall totals 200 to 600 percent above normal over the past month, with 24 trillion gallons of water having fallen in the state since late December.

The stark contrast between the staggering amount of precipitation in recent weeks and the CPC’s seasonal precipitation outlook issued before the winter, which leaned toward below-normal precipitation for at least half of California, has water managers lamenting the unreliability of seasonal forecasts.

“You have no idea come Dec. 1 what your winter is going to look like because our seasonal forecasts are so bad,” said Jeffrey Mount, a senior fellow with the Public Policy Institute of California’s Water Policy Center, in an interview. “They are just not reliable enough to make definitive water supply decisions.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/01/15/california-seasonal-forecasts-noaa-missed/

But they know for dead certain that temperatures are rising 5 degrees in the next 100 years and the oceans are going to rise 10 to 20 feet by the end of the century.
anim_lol.gif
From Scientific American

To learn more about why these storms are hitting California, as well as their potential dangers and benefits, Scientific American spoke with extreme weather expert Katerina Gonzales, who studied atmospheric rivers as a graduate student at Stanford University and is now a postdoctoral associate at the University of Minnesota.

[An edited transcript of the interview follows.]

Weather forecasters didn’t expect such a wet winter in California. Why was that the case?

Often we try to use El Niño and La Niña—large climate patterns in the Pacific Ocean—as proxies for the forecast. The simple narrative is that El Niño is wet, and La Niña is dry. This is the third year of La Niña, and expectations were set up by the first two years, when winters were not very wet.

There is more discussion at the link
 
From Scientific American

To learn more about why these storms are hitting California, as well as their potential dangers and benefits, Scientific American spoke with extreme weather expert Katerina Gonzales, who studied atmospheric rivers as a graduate student at Stanford University and is now a postdoctoral associate at the University of Minnesota.

[An edited transcript of the interview follows.]

Weather forecasters didn’t expect such a wet winter in California. Why was that the case?

Often we try to use El Niño and La Niña—large climate patterns in the Pacific Ocean—as proxies for the forecast. The simple narrative is that El Niño is wet, and La Niña is dry. This is the third year of La Niña, and expectations were set up by the first two years, when winters were not very wet.

There is more discussion at the link
In other words they would do as well reading tea leaves but there's not much money in reading tea leaves when you can run around with your hair on fire and fleece the taxpayer with leftist Ivy League "studies" that never pan-out along with shrill cries of faux "climate change".
 
In other words they would do as well reading tea leaves but there's not much money in reading tea leaves when you can run around with your hair on fire and fleece the taxpayer with leftist Ivy League "studies" that never pan-out along with shrill cries of faux "climate change".
Don't give me this "in other words" bullshit. I said what I said. No one is making money off a fucked up weather report.
 
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!
panic-sponge-bob.gif
The late Willard Scott once told me that they can give a reasonably accurate forecast 36 hours out but after that it was mostly guesswork.

If you have been alive long enough that is what they used to give, then it went to a five-day, and then a 10-day.....It was all just a marketing ploy. Nothing like predicting snow ten days out to keep the DC area viewership coming back for more. ;)
 
You are so full of shit.....See my Willard Scott post above.
Willard Scott? Really? No predictions beyond 36 hours? Suppose I predict that in 48 hours, parts of California will experience rain and parts will experience sunshine? Spot on, eh? What is lost over time is specificity. The further out your prediction, the less accurate detail can be given. Climate predictions are not weather reports. A sesonal forecast of lower than normal rain doesn't mean next Thursday will be sunny. There is a very good reason they mucked this up. It was known well in advance that the ENSO forecast was on the cusp of switching from one mode to the other. They had a 50-50 chance and they picked wrong. Your paranoid delusions are still just paranoid delusions.
 
Willard Scott? Really? No predictions beyond 36 hours? Suppose I predict that in 48 hours, parts of California will experience rain and parts will experience sunshine? Spot on, eh? What is lost over time is specificity. The further out your prediction, the less accurate detail can be given. Climate predictions are not weather reports. A sesonal forecast of lower than normal rain doesn't mean next Thursday will be sunny. There is a very good reason they mucked this up. It was known well in advance that the ENSO forecast was on the cusp of switching from one mode to the other. They had a 50-50 chance and they picked wrong. Your paranoid delusions are still just paranoid delusions.
Seems to me you have been deluded for the past near 50 years and the American people sold a bill of goods.....I've yet to see that "New Ice Age" that was predicted back in the 80s yet.....But, but, but, "mah science" right?

Sold a bill of goods: To be led to believe that a lie is true; to be swindled or conned.

I don't know of a more fitting analogy to what has been foisted upon us by your ilk.
 
The multi-billion dollar satellites get the weather in Nassau County correct 2 days a week.
 
Seems to me you have been deluded for the past near 50 years and the American people sold a bill of goods.....I've yet to see that "New Ice Age" that was predicted back in the 80s yet.....But, but, but, "mah science" right?
Wrong. There was never even moderate support for an oncoming ice age among scientists.
Sold a bill of goods: To be led to believe that a lie is true; to be swindled or conned.
Which seems to be precisely what the PR agents of the fossil fuel industry have succeeded at with you to a remarkable extent.
I don't know of a more fitting analogy to what has been foisted upon us by your ilk.
Nothing has been foisted on you by my ilk.
 
Meanwhile...... from Scientific American

California Megaflood: Lessons from a Forgotten Catastrophe​

A 43-day storm that began in December 1861 put central and southern California underwater for up to six months, and it could happen again

By B. Lynn Ingram on January 1, 2013

Excerpt:

Geologic evidence shows that truly massive floods, caused by rainfall alone, have occurred in California every 100 to 200 years. Such floods are likely caused by atmospheric rivers: narrow bands of water vapor about a mile above the ocean that extend for thousands of kilometers.

The atmospheric river storms featured in a January 2013 article in Scientific American that I co-wrote with Michael Dettinger, The Coming Megafloods, are responsible for most of the largest historical floods in many western states.

LINK
 
We can go out and look at the clouds and tell the weather tomorrow ... easy peasy ... modern science gives us very reliable 48-hour forecasts and reliable forecasts at 72-hours ... past that is coin flipping ... depending on the local terrain ... computers help some ... but where computer really shine is telling us how accurate these forecasts are ... certain weather conditions allow much longer forecasts, and we know they are accurate ... say out seven days ...

Past that ... forecasts are not accurate ... one month out we just don't know ... anyone who says they do are lying ...
 
Coming into this winter, California was mired in a three-year drought, with forecasts offering little hope of relief anytime soon. Fast forward to today, and the state is waterlogged with as much as 10 to 20 inches of rain and up to 200 inches of snow that have fallen in some locations in the past three weeks. The drought isn’t over, but parched farmland and declining reservoir levels have been supplanted by raging rivers and deadly flooding.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Climate Prediction Center (CPC) issues seasonal forecasts of precipitation and temperature for one to 13 months into the future. The CPC’s initial outlook for this winter, issued on Oct. 20, favored below-normal precipitation in Southern California and did not lean toward either drier- or wetter-than-normal conditions in Northern California.

However, after a series of intense moisture-laden storms known as atmospheric rivers, most of California has seen rainfall totals 200 to 600 percent above normal over the past month, with 24 trillion gallons of water having fallen in the state since late December.

The stark contrast between the staggering amount of precipitation in recent weeks and the CPC’s seasonal precipitation outlook issued before the winter, which leaned toward below-normal precipitation for at least half of California, has water managers lamenting the unreliability of seasonal forecasts.

“You have no idea come Dec. 1 what your winter is going to look like because our seasonal forecasts are so bad,” said Jeffrey Mount, a senior fellow with the Public Policy Institute of California’s Water Policy Center, in an interview. “They are just not reliable enough to make definitive water supply decisions.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/01/15/california-seasonal-forecasts-noaa-missed/

But they know for dead certain that temperatures are rising 5 degrees in the next 100 years and the oceans are going to rise 10 to 20 feet by the end of the century.
anim_lol.gif
Not one of NOAA's, NWS, or any other agencies models can pass empirical evaluation. There is currently a 100% failure rate of all models. Outside 12 hours, it's a coin toss. The only reason the farmer's almanac gets it right 80% of the time is due to pattern identification.

The current state of the modeling demonstrates our understanding of the climatic system. We don't know squat! Your average farmer can predict better than any of the fancy computer generated fiction.
 
From Scientific American

To learn more about why these storms are hitting California, as well as their potential dangers and benefits, Scientific American spoke with extreme weather expert Katerina Gonzales, who studied atmospheric rivers as a graduate student at Stanford University and is now a postdoctoral associate at the University of Minnesota.

[An edited transcript of the interview follows.]

Weather forecasters didn’t expect such a wet winter in California. Why was that the case?

Often we try to use El Niño and La Niña—large climate patterns in the Pacific Ocean—as proxies for the forecast. The simple narrative is that El Niño is wet, and La Niña is dry. This is the third year of La Niña, and expectations were set up by the first two years, when winters were not very wet.

There is more discussion at the link


The Farmers Almanac is waaaY more accurate.
 

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