Cain lost a lot of my respect tonight

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Say what you will the people made him a serious contender. His lack of principals took that away.

If he is the nominee I will accept him over Obama…

You contradict yourself. If Cain’s lack of principles makes him unworthy of your vote to be the GOP nominee, then he’s just as unworthy to be president, if not more so.

For you to be a man of conviction and principle you’ll need to either vote third party/write-in or not at all.

My conviction is irrelevant as I'm not the man responsible for 300+ million citizens.

I do understand your point but my reason is I believe Cain would listen to both the people around him as well as his advisors. That alone could direct him in what I believe to be the right direction. I have no such faith in Obama. And a 3rd party has no chance.

 

[Truthseeker420]

I saw him before the debate CLEARLY say he could see himself releasing all the terrorists in gitmo for one US soldier. Then during the debate he waffled and it didn't go over well. Then in the post debate he claimed he misspoke.

I'm sorry but that's not the kind of conviction I'm looking for nor is it a sane position. We have a man that double speaks now and I'm sad to say I'm quite sure he wouldn't trade hundreds of terrorists for one soldier. Truth in honesty.

It makes me mad because Cain seemed like he could pull something together but after tonight I just don't trust his judgement. Hell I trust the rhino that is Romney more now and that's saying something. I still like the root of his 9-9-9 plan but that's not gonna buy my vote.

Good ! come away from the dark side.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It did seem a bad night for Cain. Here are some things I didn't like:

-- Cain's defense of his 999 plan seemed muddled, particularly when Romney got him going about apples and oranges instead of just saying "Yes, under my plan people would pay both their state sales tax and a federal one".

-- Cain's claim that the analysis was on his website was irking. When I checked earlier, it wasn't there, and the website was not accessible during the debate. Now there does seem to be some new information on the website, which I'm still working through, so perhaps I should give him a pass here.

-- Cain's discussion of the hypothetical hostage situation. I think it's perfectly appropriate here to avoid hypothetical questions, but Cain's explanation was quite (I'm using this word a lot) muddled.

-- Cain somehow managed to get bogged down between yes, maybe, and obviously joking in his discussion of an electrified border fence without ever resolving the issue.

You're a self-described progressive and liberal. Why would your opinions even be valid in this matter??

She is an American voter. As much as we may not like her ideals her opinion matters as much as ours if she is being honest and fair and I believe she is.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I saw him before the debate CLEARLY say he could see himself releasing all the terrorists in gitmo for one US soldier. Then during the debate he waffled and it didn't go over well. Then in the post debate he claimed he misspoke.

I'm sorry but that's not the kind of conviction I'm looking for nor is it a sane position. We have a man that double speaks now and I'm sad to say I'm quite sure he wouldn't trade hundreds of terrorists for one soldier. Truth in honesty.

It makes me mad because Cain seemed like he could pull something together but after tonight I just don't trust his judgement. Hell I trust the rhino that is Romney more now and that's saying something. I still like the root of his 9-9-9 plan but that's not gonna buy my vote.

Good ! come away from the dark side.

Lol,
Not happening man

 

[The Rabbi]

It did seem a bad night for Cain. Here are some things I didn't like:

-- Cain's defense of his 999 plan seemed muddled, particularly when Romney got him going about apples and oranges instead of just saying "Yes, under my plan people would pay both their state sales tax and a federal one".

-- Cain's claim that the analysis was on his website was irking. When I checked earlier, it wasn't there, and the website was not accessible during the debate. Now there does seem to be some new information on the website, which I'm still working through, so perhaps I should give him a pass here.

-- Cain's discussion of the hypothetical hostage situation. I think it's perfectly appropriate here to avoid hypothetical questions, but Cain's explanation was quite (I'm using this word a lot) muddled.

-- Cain somehow managed to get bogged down between yes, maybe, and obviously joking in his discussion of an electrified border fence without ever resolving the issue.

You're a self-described progressive and liberal. Why would your opinions even be valid in this matter??

She is an American voter. As much as we may not like her ideals her opinion matters as much as ours if she is being honest and fair and I believe she is.

I dont know if she's a 14 year old Nigerian swindler.
But if she is a progressive and liberal she is going to vote for Obama. Her criticisms of Cain or any other Republican are pretty much irrelevant. It is like asking Fidel Castro for his opinion.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You're a self-described progressive and liberal. Why would your opinions even be valid in this matter??

Because she and millions like her will be needed in order for a republican to be elected president.

Otherwise just keep your head in the rightist echo chamber.

 

[ClosedCaption]

This is just Grandpa's way of letting everyone know he's lining up behind Romney. Like every other con will do because everyone knew Romney would be nominee anyway. The rest is just theater.

 

[Liability]

My eyes have been OPENED.

It turns out, Mr. Cain is imperfect.

Oh wait.

I already knew that.

But unlike the other GOP contenders, he has offered a plan. He can take some hits for the plan (999) but at least he has one. And if the plan has flaws, it's still a damned sight better than what we have.

And if the imperfect Mr. Cain has committed a blunder by engaging in a waffling bit of debate, I can get past that quite readily. This time. Again, it's not like any of the other contenders can lay an honest claim to never having waffled.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yep. A Sim City plan. With just as much connection to reality.

 

[del]

Yep. A Sim City plan. With just as much connection to reality.

someone just got his new talking points

 

[ladyliberal]

It did seem a bad night for Cain. Here are some things I didn't like:

-- Cain's defense of his 999 plan seemed muddled, particularly when Romney got him going about apples and oranges instead of just saying "Yes, under my plan people would pay both their state sales tax and a federal one".

-- Cain's claim that the analysis was on his website was irking. When I checked earlier, it wasn't there, and the website was not accessible during the debate. Now there does seem to be some new information on the website, which I'm still working through, so perhaps I should give him a pass here.

-- Cain's discussion of the hypothetical hostage situation. I think it's perfectly appropriate here to avoid hypothetical questions, but Cain's explanation was quite (I'm using this word a lot) muddled.

-- Cain somehow managed to get bogged down between yes, maybe, and obviously joking in his discussion of an electrified border fence without ever resolving the issue.

You're a self-described progressive and liberal. Why would your opinions even be valid in this matter??

She is an American voter. As much as we may not like her ideals her opinion matters as much as ours if she is being honest and fair and I believe she is.

Thanks, I really appreciate that.

Anyone who finds my posts unhelpful is of course welcome to pass right over them. And you're certainly correct that my personal impressions don't track very well with those of the Republican primary voters who are the primary audience for these debates. I find the debates interesting, though, and I comment on them in the hopes of participating in an interesting discussion.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This is just Grandpa's way of letting everyone know he's lining up behind Romney. Like every other con will do because everyone knew Romney would be nominee anyway. The rest is just theater.

And that's your way of showing your ignorance of my opinions. I've made it clear that I've liked Cain and Newt all along.

But feel free to carry on in your little fantasy world.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

My conviction is irrelevant…

Apparently.

This is just Grandpa's way of letting everyone know he's lining up behind Romney. Like every other con will do because everyone knew Romney would be nominee anyway. The rest is just theater.

The rest is just sad, actually.

 

[Truthseeker420]

I saw him before the debate CLEARLY say he could see himself releasing all the terrorists in gitmo for one US soldier. Then during the debate he waffled and it didn't go over well. Then in the post debate he claimed he misspoke.

I'm sorry but that's not the kind of conviction I'm looking for nor is it a sane position. We have a man that double speaks now and I'm sad to say I'm quite sure he wouldn't trade hundreds of terrorists for one soldier. Truth in honesty.

It makes me mad because Cain seemed like he could pull something together but after tonight I just don't trust his judgement. Hell I trust the rhino that is Romney more now and that's saying something. I still like the root of his 9-9-9 plan but that's not gonna buy my vote.

Good ! come away from the dark side.

Lol,
Not happening man

We have free pie.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

My conviction is irrelevant…

Apparently.

This is just Grandpa's way of letting everyone know he's lining up behind Romney. Like every other con will do because everyone knew Romney would be nominee anyway. The rest is just theater.

The rest is just sad, actually.

I take my perceived duty of voting as a large responsibility. Almost as large as your perceived duty to constantly belittle others.

You know damn well what I ment.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Good ! come away from the dark side.

Lol,
Not happening man

We have free pie.

I thought you guys threw shoes?

 

[asterism]

I saw him before the debate CLEARLY say he could see himself releasing all the terrorists in gitmo for one US soldier. Then during the debate he waffled and it didn't go over well. Then in the post debate he claimed he misspoke.

I'm sorry but that's not the kind of conviction I'm looking for nor is it a sane position. We have a man that double speaks now and I'm sad to say I'm quite sure he wouldn't trade hundreds of terrorists for one soldier. Truth in honesty.

It makes me mad because Cain seemed like he could pull something together but after tonight I just don't trust his judgement. Hell I trust the rhino that is Romney more now and that's saying something. I still like the root of his 9-9-9 plan but that's not gonna buy my vote.

I like a guy who admits he fucked up.

 

[asterism]

It did seem a bad night for Cain. Here are some things I didn't like:

-- Cain's defense of his 999 plan seemed muddled, particularly when Romney got him going about apples and oranges instead of just saying "Yes, under my plan people would pay both their state sales tax and a federal one".

-- Cain's claim that the analysis was on his website was irking. When I checked earlier, it wasn't there, and the website was not accessible during the debate. Now there does seem to be some new information on the website, which I'm still working through, so perhaps I should give him a pass here.

-- Cain's discussion of the hypothetical hostage situation. I think it's perfectly appropriate here to avoid hypothetical questions, but Cain's explanation was quite (I'm using this word a lot) muddled.

-- Cain somehow managed to get bogged down between yes, maybe, and obviously joking in his discussion of an electrified border fence without ever resolving the issue.

Cain was crystal clear that state taxes are irrelevant to the question because the state taxes exist regardless of whether we enact 9-9-9 or stay with the monstrosity we currently have at the federal level.

 

[Avorysuds]

It did seem a bad night for Cain. Here are some things I didn't like:

-- Cain's defense of his 999 plan seemed muddled, particularly when Romney got him going about apples and oranges instead of just saying "Yes, under my plan people would pay both their state sales tax and a federal one".

-- Cain's claim that the analysis was on his website was irking. When I checked earlier, it wasn't there, and the website was not accessible during the debate. Now there does seem to be some new information on the website, which I'm still working through, so perhaps I should give him a pass here.

-- Cain's discussion of the hypothetical hostage situation. I think it's perfectly appropriate here to avoid hypothetical questions, but Cain's explanation was quite (I'm using this word a lot) muddled.

-- Cain somehow managed to get bogged down between yes, maybe, and obviously joking in his discussion of an electrified border fence without ever resolving the issue.

Cain was crystal clear that state taxes are irrelevant to the question because the state taxes exist regardless of whether we enact 9-9-9 or stay with the monstrosity we currently have at the federal level.

No, what Cain is not clear about is that it's a sales tax meaning taxes go up the when you spend more... If you make 50k a year and 10k is taxes, under Cain’s plan let’s say you pay 9k in taxes... Now whenever you spend will be taxed up from either 0% to from whatever the state taxes are.

Now if you spend 30 on buying stuff and you used to pay nothing for sales tax you now have to spend 2,700 more to buy the same stuff.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

My eyes have been OPENED.

It turns out, Mr. Cain is imperfect.

Oh wait.

I already knew that.

But unlike the other GOP contenders, he has offered a plan. He can take some hits for the plan (999) but at least he has one. And if the plan has flaws, it's still a damned sight better than what we have.

And if the imperfect Mr. Cain has committed a blunder by engaging in a waffling bit of debate, I can get past that quite readily. This time. Again, it's not like any of the other contenders can lay an honest claim to never having waffled.

You offer many valid points but.....

Today alone, in a 3 hour window Cain took 3 somewhat different positions on the hostage situation. 3 in 3 hours. That is a serious lack of a well thought out position. And its on terrorism, a hot topic. It's not like it was a position on the mpg regulations at the epa. How can he be this deep in a run for the whitehouse and not have his convictions on terrorism nailed down?

And by the way, I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just disgusted with his performance in certain areas and ranting about it. Maybe I set the bar too high.