bush and iraq

[harvey diamond]

i never saw a pres. wear a uniform in office why did this bushit???

 

[eric]

It is called a flight suit and is required when flying in a military aircraft. Good enough ?

 

[jones]

Too bad the Traitor in the whitehouse went AWOL from air national guard.

Oh well, theres more than one convicted felon in our whitehouse.

 

[NightTrain]

Did he go AWOL, Jones? Really?

Or do you have that old, tired argument that really doesn't stand up under scrutiny?

 

[DKSuddeth]

that old tired argument from his former commanding officer saying he never showed up for a year?

 

[acludem]

Bush went AWOL. Daddy bought him a spot in the national gaurd to be sure he wouldn't have to go to Vietnam after he was drafted. He then disappeared from his unit, but Daddy got him a discharge. If Bill Clinton had dropped onto an aircraft carrier in a flight suit, you righties would've blown a gasket. I believe you used to call him a "draft dodger", interesting, so was Bush.

I thought Bush in a flight suit was rather laughable.

acludem

 

[Lefty Wilbury]

time to clear all this up. from a left leaning source:

http://www2.georgemag.com/bush.html

The Real Military Record of George W. Bush: Not Heroic, but Not AWOL, Either
By Peter Keating and Karthik Thyagarajan


For more than a year, controversy about George W. Bush's Air National Guard record has bubbled through the press. Interest in the topic has spiked in recent days, as at least two websites have launched stories essentially calling Bush AWOL in 1972 and 1973. For example, in "Finally, the Truth about Bush's Military Record" on TomPaine.com, Marty Heldt writes, "Bush's long absence from the records comes to an end one week after he failed to comply with an order to attend 'Annual Active Duty Training' starting at the end of May 1973... Nothing indicates in the records that he ever made up the time he missed." And in Bush's Military Record Reveals Grounding and Absence for Two Full Years" on Democrats.com, Robert A. Rogers states: "Bush never actually reported in person for the last two years of his service - in direct violation of two separate written orders."

Neither is correct.

It's time to set the record straight. The following analysis, which relies on National Guard documents, extensive interviews with military officials and previously unpublished evidence of Bush's whereabouts in the summer and fall of 1972, is the first full chronology of Bush's military record. Its basic conclusions: Bush may have received favorable treatment to get into the Guard, served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got an expedited discharge, but he did accumulate the days of service required of him for his ultimate honorable discharge.

At the Republican convention in Philadelphia, George W. Bush declared: "Our military is low on parts, pay and morale. If called on by the commander-in-chief today, two entire divisions of the Army would have to report, 'Not ready for duty, sir.'" Bush says he is the candidate who can "rebuild our military and prepare our armed forces for the future." On what direct military experience does he make such claims?

George W. Bush applied to join the Texas Air National Guard on May 27, 1968, less than two weeks before he graduated from Yale University. The country was at war in Vietnam, and at that time, just months after the bloody Tet Offensive, an estimated 100,000 Americans were on waiting lists to join Guard units across the country. Bush was sworn in on the day he applied.

Ben Barnes, former speaker of the Texas House of Representatives, stated in September 1999 that in late 1967 or early 1968, he asked a senior official in the Texas Air National Guard to help Bush get into the Guard as a pilot. Barnes said he did so at the behest of Sidney Adger, a Houston businessman and friend of former President George H. W. Bush, then a Texas congressman. Despite Barnes's admission, former President Bush has denied pulling strings for his son, and retired Colonel Walter Staudt, George W. Bush's first commander, insists: "There was no special treatment."

The younger Bush fulfilled two years of active duty and completed pilot training in June 1970. During that time and in the two years that followed, Bush flew the F-102, an interceptor jet equipped with heat-seeking missiles that could shoot down enemy planes. His commanding officers and peers regarded Bush as a competent pilot and enthusiastic Guard member. In March 1970, the Texas Air National Guard issued a press release trumpeting his performance: "Lt. Bush recently became the first Houston pilot to be trained by the 147th [Fighter Group] and to solo in the F-102... Lt. Bush said his father was just as excited and enthusiastic about his solo flight as he was." In Bush's evaluation for the period May 1, 1971 through April 30, 1972, then-Colonel Bobby Hodges, his commanding officer, stated, "I have personally observed his participation, and without exception, his performance has been noteworthy." In the spring of 1972, however, National Guard records show a sudden dropoff in Bush's military activity. Though trained as a pilot at considerable government expense, Bush stopped flying in April 1972 and never flew for the Guard again.

Around that time, Bush decided to go to work for Winton "Red" Blount, a Republican running for the U.S. Senate, in Alabama. Documents from Ellington Air Force Base in Houston state that Bush "cleared this base on 15 May." Shortly afterward, he applied for assignment to the 9921st Air Reserve Squadron in Montgomery, Ala., a unit that required minimal duty and offered no pay. Although that unit's commander was willing to welcome him, on May 31 higher-ups at the Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver rejected Bush's request to serve at the 9921st, because it did not offer duty equivalent to his service in Texas. "[A]n obligated Reservist [in this case, Bush] can be assigned to a specific Ready Reserve position only," noted the disapproval memo, a copy of which was sent to Bush. "Therefore, he is ineligible for assignment to an Air Reserve Squadron."

Despite the military's decision, Bush moved to Alabama. Records obtained by Georegemag.com show that the Blount Senate campaign paid Bush about $900 a month from mid-May through mid-November to do advance work and organize events. Neither Bush's annual evaluation nor the Air National Guard's overall chronological listing of his service contain any evidence that he performed Guard duties during that summer.

On or around his 27th birthday, July 6, 1972, Bush did not take his required annual medical exam at his Texas unit. As a consequence, he was suspended from flying military jets. Bush spokesperson Dan Bartlett told Georgemag.com: "You take that exam because you are flying, and he was not flying. The paperwork uses the phrase 'suspended from flying,' but he had no intention of flying at that time."

Some media reports have speculated that Bush took and failed his physical, or that he was grounded as a result of substance abuse. Bush's vagueness on the subject of his past drug use has only abetted such rumors. Bush's commanding officer in Texas, however, denies the charges. "His flying status was suspended because he didn't take the exam,not because he couldn't pass," says Hodges. Asked whether Bush was ever disciplined for using alcohol or illicit drugs, Hodges replied: "No."

On September 5, Bush wrote to then-Colonel Jerry Killian at his original unit in Texas, requesting permission to serve with the 187th Tactical Reconnaisance Group, another Alabama-based unit. "This duty would be for the months of September, October, and November," wrote Bush.

This time his request was approved: 10 days later, the Alabama Guard ordered Bush to report to then-Lieutenant Colonel William Turnipseed at Dannelly Air Force Base in Montgomery on October 7th and 8th. The memo noted that "Lieutenant Bush will not be able to satisfy his flight requirements with our group," since the 187th did not fly F-102s.

The question of whether Bush ever actually served in Alabama has become an issue in the 2000 campaign-the Air Force Times recently reported that "the GOP is trying to locate people who served with Bush in late 1972 ... to see if they can confirm that Bush briefly served with the Alabama Air National Guard." Bush's records contain no evidence that he reported to Dannelly in October. And in telephone interviews with Georgemag.com, neither Turnipseed, Bush's commanding officer, nor Kenneth Lott, then chief personnel officer of the 187th, remembered Bush serving with their unit. "I don't think he showed up," Turnipseed said.

Bush maintains he did serve in Alabama. "Governor Bush specifically remembers pulling duty in Montgomery and respectfully disagrees with the Colonel," says Bartlett. "There's no question it wasn't memorable, because he wasn't flying." In July, the Decatur Daily reported that two former Blount campaign workers recall Bush serving in the Alabama Air National Guard in the fall of 1972. "I remember he actually came back to Alabama for about a week to 10 days several weeks after the campaign was over to complete his Guard duty in the state," stated Emily Martin, a former Alabama resident who said she dated Bush during the time he spent in that state.

After the 1972 election, which Blount lost, Bush moved back to Houston and subsequently began working at P.U.L.L., a community service center for disadvantaged youths. This period of time has also become a matter of controversy, because even though Bush's original unit had been placed on alert duty in October 1972, his superiors in Texas lost track of his whereabouts. On May 2, 1973, Bush's squadron leader in the 147th, Lieutenant Colonel William Harris, Jr. wrote: "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit" for the past year. Harris incorrectly assumed that Bush had been reporting for duty in Alabama all along. He wrote that Bush "has been performing equivalent training in a non-flying status with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama." Base commander Hodges says of Bush's return to Texas: "All I remember is someone saying he came back and made up his days."

Two documents obtained by Georgemag.com indicate that Bush did make up the time he missed during the summer and autumn of 1972. One is an April 23, 1973 order for Bush to report to annual active duty training the following month; the other is an Air National Guard statement of days served by Bush that is torn and undated but contains entries that correspond to the first. Taken together, they appear to establish that Bush reported for duty on nine occasions between November 29, 1972-when he could have been in Alabama-and May 24, 1973. Bush still wasn't flying, but over this span, he did earn nine points of National Guard service from days of active duty and 32 from inactive duty. When added to the 15 so-called "gratuitous" points that every member of the Guard got per year, Bush accumulated 56 points, more than the 50 that he needed by the end of May 1973 to maintain his standing as a Guardsman.

On May 1, Bush was ordered to report for further active duty training, and documents show that he proceeded to cram in another 10 sessions over the next two months. Ultimately, he racked up 19 active duty points of service and 16 inactive duty points by July 30-which, added to his 15 gratuitous points, achieved the requisite total of 50 for the year ending in May 1974.

On October 1, 1973, First Lieutenant George W. Bush received an early honorable discharge so that he could attend Harvard Business School. He was credited with five years, four months and five days of service toward his six-year service obligation.

 

[nbdysfu]

The link didn't work.

Question: was 50 points the absolute minimum for staying in the national gaurd, or was it also about the average of everyone in the National Gaurd in 1974 and the close of the vietnam war?

 

[Lefty Wilbury]

the link didn't work because the article is old and the magazine and its website no longer exsits. the link at one time was working when the site still existed. here's another article on it that references the george mag article thats already been posted:

http://www.ngaus.org/ngmagazine/main101.asp

Number 19
January 2001
George W. Bush is the latest in a long line of U.S. presidents who once served in the National Guard.

By Lisa Daniel

By now, most Americans know that President-elect George W. Bush has made history in several ways: He's the son of a former president who took the closest election on record while not taking the popular vote.

But Bush will have another distinction when he is sworn in as the 43rd president Jan. 20: He will be the first former Air Guardsman in the White House and the 19th president to have been a member of the militia or the Guard.

While that distinction may be lost on most civilians, it no doubt has caught the attention of the country's nearly half-million Guardsmen who now wonder what the Bush presidency mean for them.

While presidents don't have the clout over single entities--such as the Guard--they once did, they still wield power in two important ways, says retired Col. Michael Doubler, a former National Guard Bureau historian. First, the president appoints the National Guard Bureau chief. Secondly, the president sets policy and support for the military.

History indicates that presidents who were Guardsmen take an interest in citizen soldiers as commanders in chief, Doubler said.

The list of presidents who served in the militia or National Guard features the four American icons honored at Mount Rushmore: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. Other Guard presidents include Ulysses S. Grant, Benjamin Harrison, and Harry S Truman.

The last two presidents to have been citizen soldiers--Roosevelt and Truman--were perhaps the ones who did the most to shape the modern National Guard. Roosevelt's first message to Congress after becoming president in 1901 was to get a 'thorough military education,' not just in the regular military, but also the Guard. By the time he left office, Guard units were receiving better pay, equipment and training.

Truman commanded a Missouri Guard artillery battery in France during World War I. Then Capt. Truman told his troops: "I'd rather be here than president of the United States." He later became president in 1945. The Air National Guard was created under his watch.

"What they learned in the Guard had a great impact on decisions they made as presidents," Doubler said. "They learned qualities of giving and receiving orders and they understood military operations."

Still, the expectation that presidents serve in the military before taking office is a mid-20th century phenomenon that began during the Cold War, when the nation maintained a large standing military, Doubler said.

President Clinton was widely criticized for avoiding the draft during the Vietnam War. Bush also was accused of skirting the draft by joining the Texas Air Guard in 1968. He became an F-102 fighter pilot before being discharged as a first lieutenant in 1973.

Doubler says it is unfair to criticize those who joined the Guard during the Vietnam War.

"The government allowed it and in many ways encouraged it," he said "There were a lot of things the government did to authorize people to serve in places other than the front lines."

Bush's drill performance also stirred controversy during the campaign. Some reports charged that he was absent for a year. However, probably the most comprehensive media review of Bush's military records concluded that while he, "served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got an expedited discharge, he did accumulate the days of service required for him for his ultimate honorable discharge." The review was done by Georgemag.com, the online version of the magazine founded by the late John F. Kennedy Jr. Guardsmen say Bush's service record is not unusual.

"In any six-year time frame you probably can find some problems," says retired Rep. G.V. 'Sonny' Montgomery, D-Miss., founder of the House Guard and Reserve Caucus. "Just learning to fly the F-102 and not getting hurt and not hurting anybody is an accomplishment."


Montgomery called Bush's election, "nothing but a plus for the Guard."

The retired Mississippi National Guard major general supported Bush so strongly for president that he served as co-chair of the Veterans for Bush campaign, even though he is a Democrat. He said that the Guard will improve under Bush's leadership because he understands the life of Guardsmen and he's proud of his service.

 

[nbdysfu]

thanks.

 

[janeeng]

Really Lefty, good post!!! I think the others have been reading too much STAR!!!

Personally, I could care less anyway if he did go AWOL, which I believe Lefty's post more. I suppose if we were sitting here talking about Clinton and Military, the story would be all together different then right??? hahahha!!! that would have to be put in the joke section though.

 

[MASTER G]

your mum should be put in the joke section

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by MASTER G
your mum should be put in the joke section

Care to explain that comment?

 

[MASTER G]

No, I'll explain it to your mum tonight

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by MASTER G
No, I'll explain it to your mum tonight

Bye.

 

[Joan]

The hell you will PUNK

 

[janeeng]

MASTER G had some serious issues, too bad you banned him Jim, I think I could have had some fun with that loser!

 

[jon_forward]

Damn, this woulda been a good fight...for about one second. jim, you should of let mom have the pleasure of dis-inboweling that english maggot but I guess he didnt realize who he was messing with...

 

[5stringJeff]

I don't htink he realized that Jim's mom is actually on the board! Too bad we couldn't him around!

 

[jon_forward]

a battle royal....and he would have been the guest of honor[dis]