Bringing manufacturing back to the US, but no jobs for the working class

[BluesLegend]

Yes, they are that fucking dumb. Plus even the most roboticized plants have extensive numbers of employees to do the jobs the robots can't do, and to maintain the robots.

We'll only build robots that replace Democrats

 

[Blisterfinger]

The people who are saying we must suffer the pain, the stock market collapse, and the coming recession are the same folks who lost their god-damned minds when they were asked to put on a mask to keep from killing someone's grandmother.

Looks like Trump was right about everything

 

[frigidweirdo]

I call BS on a lights out factory. They might work great till something breaks. For instance the HVAC systems that keeps the robots and the vast computer systems that operate them at an optimal temp. And what happens when they change to a new model, robots have to be reprogramed, retooled, maybe some moved, also the electrical systems have to be maintained. And that's just a drop in the bucket of what it takes to a plant operating. Oh and let's not forget the folks that have to load the containers and truck them to ports, that all takes people.

.

Yes, I understand that. From the perspective of today's technology, you can have such a factory that does not employ working class people (the people Trump wanted support from for this policy) but skilled workers, programmers and people who can fix the robots.

How many do you need per factory? The example given of the Dutch factory said 9 people. Obviously we don't know how many workers the factory would otherwise have employed, but probably a lot more than 9.

But we're entering the phase of AI, where AI will be able to do most of that programming itself. Then they might also have robots that can fix the robots. So, skilled workers will be less in demand as you'd need only to employ a company that hires out such people when it becomes an issue.

Loading containers, I'm sure that's something that will be mostly AI in the future.

Dockworkers, however, require things to be imported and exported. Tariffs reduce the amount of import and export. So, you'd expect the number of dockworkers to go DOWN.

 

[OKTexas]

Yes, I understand that. From the perspective of today's technology, you can have such a factory that does not employ working class people (the people Trump wanted support from for this policy) but skilled workers, programmers and people who can fix the robots.

How many do you need per factory? The example given of the Dutch factory said 9 people. Obviously we don't know how many workers the factory would otherwise have employed, but probably a lot more than 9.

But we're entering the phase of AI, where AI will be able to do most of that programming itself. Then they might also have robots that can fix the robots. So, skilled workers will be less in demand as you'd need only to employ a company that hires out such people when it becomes an issue.

Loading containers, I'm sure that's something that will be mostly AI in the future.

Dockworkers, however, require things to be imported and exported. Tariffs reduce the amount of import and export. So, you'd expect the number of dockworkers to go DOWN.

Those 9 were just product quality control, you didn't say anything about facilities maintenance. If a major HVAC system goes down, some one has to use a crane to remove the faulty one and crane a new one to replace it. All that takes skilled middle class workers, electricians, plumbers, equipment operators, truckers and so on. No factory can be self sustaining forever.

.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The people who are saying we must suffer the pain, the stock market collapse, and the coming recession are the same folks who lost their god-damned minds when they were asked to put on a mask to keep from killing someone's grandmother.

The same people, who if Biden had done this, would be going about how this shows he's unfit to be President.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Those 9 were just product quality control, you didn't say anything about facilities maintenance. If a major HVAC system goes down, some one has to use a crane to remove the faulty one and crane a new one to replace it. All that takes skilled middle class workers, electricians, plumbers, equipment operators, truckers and so on. No factory can be self sustaining forever.

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Yes, it does. The problem here is that that number of people is going to be far, far less than the number in a traditional factory. Most of these jobs will be outside workers coming in whenever there's a problem.

The company will make X amount of money. Before this would have been shared out, unequally of course, to many people. Now it will mostly go to people who own the factories.

The rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

There will still be jobs. But over time the number of jobs will go down and down and down.

The people who aren't getting these jobs are the working class people who supported Trump bringing back manufacturing.

 

[buttercup]

 

[OKTexas]

Yes, it does. The problem here is that that number of people is going to be far, far less than the number in a traditional factory. Most of these jobs will be outside workers coming in whenever there's a problem.

The company will make X amount of money. Before this would have been shared out, unequally of course, to many people. Now it will mostly go to people who own the factories.

The rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

There will still be jobs. But over time the number of jobs will go down and down and down.

The people who aren't getting these jobs are the working class people who supported Trump bringing back manufacturing.

Yeah, let me know when you can get a factory that works like that. Any machine used constantly requires preventive maintenance on an ongoing basis. That takes people on site and he number is determined by how many machines are in the plant. And that about all I have to say on it.

.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yeah, let me know when you can get a factory that works like that. Any machine used constantly requires preventive maintenance on an ongoing basis. That takes people on site and he number is determined by how many machines are in the plant. And that about all I have to say on it.

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And yet, robots are going to massively reduce the number of workers.

 

[Leo123]

Trump official admits US workers won’t get jobs in new factories spurred by tariff strategy

Howard Lutnick suggests robotics are the future

uk.yahoo.com

"
Howard Lutnick appeared on CBS’s Face the Nation on Sunday and promised that “trillions” of dollars would flow into the US in the form of new investments in America’s manufacturing sector. Margaret Brennan, the show’s host, questioned whether those factories would be “automated”, as Lutnick had said previously.

Pointing out that the construction of new factories “takes years” and will do nothing to bring down costs of consumer goods for Americans in the short term, Brennan added: “You said that robots are going to fill those jobs. So those aren't union worker jobs.”

“It’s automated factories,” Lutnick conceded, while promising that American workers would build and “operate” the factories brought to US shores in the coming months and years."

Yep, they're planning on bringing manufacturing back to the US, but not for working class to have low paid jobs, they'll never compete with poorer countries even with the tariffs put in place. Nope, it's all going to be automated so the rich get RICHER and the poorer get morescrewedoverer.

The so-called 'working class' will be the robot fixers. You need to get with the times. I myself went from a worker in a machine shop to programming and running NC machines as well as learning statistical tracking Q.C. that could actually project a machine breakdown. That was over 30 years ago.

 

[OKTexas]

CUT OUT THE FLAMING AND STAY ON TOPIC FOLKS

 

[buttercup]

 

[scruffy]

Trump official admits US workers won’t get jobs in new factories spurred by tariff strategy

Howard Lutnick suggests robotics are the future

uk.yahoo.com

"
Howard Lutnick appeared on CBS’s Face the Nation on Sunday and promised that “trillions” of dollars would flow into the US in the form of new investments in America’s manufacturing sector. Margaret Brennan, the show’s host, questioned whether those factories would be “automated”, as Lutnick had said previously.

Pointing out that the construction of new factories “takes years” and will do nothing to bring down costs of consumer goods for Americans in the short term, Brennan added: “You said that robots are going to fill those jobs. So those aren't union worker jobs.”

“It’s automated factories,” Lutnick conceded, while promising that American workers would build and “operate” the factories brought to US shores in the coming months and years."

Yep, they're planning on bringing manufacturing back to the US, but not for working class to have low paid jobs, they'll never compete with poorer countries even with the tariffs put in place. Nope, it's all going to be automated so the rich get RICHER and the poorer get morescrewedoverer.

Maybe you understand, maybe you don't.

AI and robotics have shifted the economic landscape.

Not in terms of rich or poor. More in terms of educated vs uneducated. It's all about what you can do with the technology.

Take for example a machine shop. They'll need a person to clean the floor, that hasn't changed. However they no longer need a drill press operator, that function is now being performed by robots. However they still need a CNC programmer. What's changed is, the person who used to operate the drill press is now expected to program and maintain the drill press robot.

Same for an electronics fab. The army of people stuffing and soldering PC boards has now been reduced to one or two people inserting and soldering connectors, because everything else is now done by surface mount robots. However now someone has to program the Mycronic towers, and someone else has to run them, and we still need QA people to test individual boards.

In both cases the formerly manual job has shifted to something that requires more education. Moving a press handle up and down has now become programming a robot, and stuffing a PC board has now become threading reels into the surface mount robot.

It requires people to acquire new skills, and that would be happening with or without Trump, and regardless of how many fabs you have in your country.

Manufacturing is more an equation of self sufficiency. It has to do with the ability to maintain a supply chain during a war. For example, if China dominates the Asian sea then the US doesn't get computer parts anymore. Therefore the logical thing to do is move the fabs from Taiwan to the US. At least enough of them so we don't run out of parts for airplanes and such.

So this means, there will be job openings in the US for people who know how to run a semiconductor fab. That's skilled labor. It doesn't require a college degree, it's more along the lines of practical knowledge gained in a trade school. So, instead of going to trade school to learn how to handle a drill press, you're now going to trade school to learn which buttons to push to start up the semiconductor robots.

Another way of looking at it is, this creates a new specialty in terms of highly educated people who know the basics. For instance, we no longer have to know how to invert a matrix, computers can do that for us. However if we need it done in hardware, or if we need a new programming language, someone still has to know how to do it. Therefore it becomes a highly paid specialty.

We have to adapt to this new landscape, there's no choice about it. The people who do it first will be the winners. The US has gotten fat and lazy, and we have to get out of that mode. 40 year olds have to go back to school, otherwise their cushy white collar jobs are going to disappear.

This is why I started a thread on math education, over in the science forum. The Chinese are way ahead of us in this area, their high school graduates are equivalent to our college graduates. And it's only because we haven't been paying attention, we've been too busy worrying about stupid shit like DEI.

President Trump is the first one to address this equation. Biden was a fucking idiot, he let in 15 million uneducated immigrants with no skills whatsoever, and how are they going to get skills if they can't even speak English? It was a very VERY stupid thing to do, because all those people are going to need jobs which means they're going to have to get some education. President Trump is trying to adjust us to the new landscape, we should support him and each do our part. "Learn to code" is yesterday's game but it's still the general idea. Do the continuing education and learn the current skills.

 

[Mac1958]

Trump official admits US workers won’t get jobs in new factories spurred by tariff strategy

Howard Lutnick suggests robotics are the future

uk.yahoo.com

"
Howard Lutnick appeared on CBS’s Face the Nation on Sunday and promised that “trillions” of dollars would flow into the US in the form of new investments in America’s manufacturing sector. Margaret Brennan, the show’s host, questioned whether those factories would be “automated”, as Lutnick had said previously.

Pointing out that the construction of new factories “takes years” and will do nothing to bring down costs of consumer goods for Americans in the short term, Brennan added: “You said that robots are going to fill those jobs. So those aren't union worker jobs.”

“It’s automated factories,” Lutnick conceded, while promising that American workers would build and “operate” the factories brought to US shores in the coming months and years."

Yep, they're planning on bringing manufacturing back to the US, but not for working class to have low paid jobs, they'll never compete with poorer countries even with the tariffs put in place. Nope, it's all going to be automated so the rich get RICHER and the poorer get morescrewedoverer.

I'm not sure which is worse: Are Trump and Lutnick doing what you're saying, or do they really think that actual Americans are going to get millions of actual new manufacturing jobs?

Is this a plan for oligarachs or just massive ignorance of modern day global macroeconomics? Either way, much of the damage being caused right now could be permanent.

 

[candycorn]

I'm not sure which is worse: Are Trump and Lutnick doing what you're saying, or do they really think that actual Americans are going to get millions of actual new manufacturing jobs?

Is this a plan for oligarachs or just massive ignorance of modern day global macroeconomics? Either way, much of the damage being caused right now could be permanent.

All one has to do is look at the fact that there are no start-ups breaking ground right now to take advantage of the tariffs. I mean, if you're going to launch a competitor to the tariffed I-Phones because you can make them and sell them cheaper here in the US...why isn't anyone doing it?

Could it be that even with the tariffs, the price of making them overseas is still light years cheaper than making them in the US?

 

[Mac1958]

Could it be that even with the tariffs, the price of making them overseas is still light years cheaper than making them in the US?

Yes. The biggest beneficiary of this will probably be Vietnam. It will help China as well, because their cheap manufacturing is spreading globally. Our former friends in Japan and South Korea are taking with China. Canada is moving towards the EU, and that will be a larger buying block for cheap goods. India is getting into it, and they're THE sleeping monster in terms of manufacturing. And not our friend.

This is what happens when the juggernaut turns tail and goes into hiding.

1980s tariff strategies aren't so easy in the modern global economy.

 

[Mac1958]

Wow.

Something just hit me.

The Trump/Lutnick axis is in effect (purposely or not) doing with the American economy what the GQP has done with the informational universe, the alternate MAGA reality.

They're going to end up (purposely or not) making America an economic island that no one else will deal with, thinking that Americans alone can keep the economy growing. Our goods will be far too expensive globally. The rest of the world can go to hell.

And the rest of the world will just use other resources, like China, India and Vietnam, for their manufacturing.

MAGA alone, America alone.

 

[j-mac]

Trump official admits US workers won’t get jobs in new factories spurred by tariff strategy

Howard Lutnick suggests robotics are the future

uk.yahoo.com

"
Howard Lutnick appeared on CBS’s Face the Nation on Sunday and promised that “trillions” of dollars would flow into the US in the form of new investments in America’s manufacturing sector. Margaret Brennan, the show’s host, questioned whether those factories would be “automated”, as Lutnick had said previously.

Pointing out that the construction of new factories “takes years” and will do nothing to bring down costs of consumer goods for Americans in the short term, Brennan added: “You said that robots are going to fill those jobs. So those aren't union worker jobs.”

“It’s automated factories,” Lutnick conceded, while promising that American workers would build and “operate” the factories brought to US shores in the coming months and years."

Yep, they're planning on bringing manufacturing back to the US, but not for working class to have low paid jobs, they'll never compete with poorer countries even with the tariffs put in place. Nope, it's all going to be automated so the rich get RICHER and the poorer get morescrewedoverer.

So, I guess our schools had better start teaching math, science, and English instead of African Lesbian trans studies…

 

[j-mac]

Something just hit me.

Was it a truck?

The Trump/Lutnick axis is in effect (purposely or not) doing with the American economy what the GQP has done with the informational universe, the alternate MAGA reality.

They're going to end up (purposely or not) making America an economic island that no one else will deal with, thinking that Americans alone can keep the economy growing. Our goods will be far too expensive globally. The rest of the world can go to hell.

And the rest of the world will just use other resources, like China, India and Vietnam, for their manufacturing.

MAGA alone, America alone.

GTFOH…

 

[toobfreak]

Howard Lutnick appeared on CBS’s Face the Nation on Sunday and promised that “trillions” of dollars would flow into the US in the form of new investments in America’s manufacturing sector. Margaret Brennan, the show’s host, questioned whether those factories would be “automated”, as Lutnick had said previously.

Pointing out that the construction of new factories “takes years” and will do nothing to bring down costs of consumer goods for Americans in the short term, Brennan added: “You said that robots are going to fill those jobs. So those aren't union worker jobs.”

“It’s automated factories,” Lutnick conceded, while promising that American workers would build and “operate” the factories brought to US shores in the coming months and years."

Yep, they're planning on bringing manufacturing back to the US, but not for working class to have low paid jobs, they'll never compete with poorer countries even with the tariffs put in place. Nope, it's all going to be automated so the rich get RICHER and the poorer get morescrewedoverer.

A lot of things are done with automation now, Jughead. Part of it is technology, part of it is trying to compete with the cheap labor your party sent all the old jobs to, what do you want Trump to do, order businesses to use 1950s technology?

Some stuff is labor intensive, some isn't. I'll take the jobs and factories being here instead of elsewhere either way.