[Bring it on, you Americans] About Ho Chi Minh

Magicknight94

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I just has re-read a few discussions about Ho Chi Minh and I am very upset (and angry too) :mad:. You Americans keep babbling about he is a dictator, commie, USA's enemy, blah blah blah.

How was he a dictator? He was selected as the president in a nationwide election. Even after he become the president, he didn't abuse his position for his personal interests. While being the president, he lived in a small wooden house , unlike the big wealthy palace of US president:eusa_whistle:.

And there is nothing wrong with communism at that time. While the world was ruled by Western capitalist-greedy colonists, the communism is light of hope for the oppressed poor people :confused:.

And USA's enemy? You Americans betrayed us after 1945, you helped the Frenchs, you fighted against us in the Battle of Dien Bien Phu, you sponsored a puppet government in South, you teared the Geneva Treaty up, you sent your troops to our land to kill our people, you used Orange Agent on our country. Who is who enemy here? :doubt:
 

whitehall

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Minh might have won the hearts and minds of the liberal elite and the liberal media but we kicked his freaking ass on the battlefield. Ho Chi Minh was defeated after Tet but chairman Walter Cronkite convinced the democrat fool in the White House to throw in the towel. Nixon was forced by the democrat majority to abandon the Vietnamese to face murder and imprisonment at the hands of the communist hoard.
 

Beria

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He was a great man and General . The French got their arse kicked in 1954 at Dien Bien Phu , The US was financing the war !
 

MaryL

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Who said this? And you heard this on the wind? What do you mean: "You Americans"? What cloud cuckoo land do YOU come from, that isolates you from this issue…?
 
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MaryL

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Be that as it may...America could have won the war in Indo-china (Vietnam). My brother fought there, and plenty of our friends died there, too. But, for what? Exactly, nothing. Like Beirut or years later in Iraq. All these years later, people have these yellow ribbons and want us to “support the troops “. I do. I just don’t support the creeps and their political issues that that sent them there, that’s all.
 

Publius1787

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I just has re-read a few discussions about Ho Chi Minh and I am very upset (and angry too) :mad:. You Americans keep babbling about he is a dictator, commie, USA's enemy, blah blah blah.

How was he a dictator? He was selected as the president in a nationwide election. Even after he become the president, he didn't abuse his position for his personal interests. While being the president, he lived in a small wooden house , unlike the big wealthy palace of US president:eusa_whistle:.

And there is nothing wrong with communism at that time. While the world was ruled by Western capitalist-greedy colonists, the communism is light of hope for the oppressed poor people :confused:.

And USA's enemy? You Americans betrayed us after 1945, you helped the Frenchs, you fighted against us in the Battle of Dien Bien Phu, you sponsored a puppet government in South, you teared the Geneva Treaty up, you sent your troops to our land to kill our people, you used Orange Agent on our country. Who is who enemy here? :doubt:
I dunno, that whole collectivization process whereas Ho's vanguard youth went running around murdering Catholics and landowners was kinda rough. Not to mention the 24,000 death camps that were built under his rule. As communist regimes go, however, he was pretty conservative, killing only 500,000 people (Of course, many more than that were used in labor camps, reeducation camps, falsely imprisoned, and were robbed of their livelihood). But then again, he was only in power for 18 years, and thus, that's just a measly 28,000 political executions per year. Nevertheless, he died before the war's end and his successors reigned tyranny down upon the land, locking up or killing not only those who did not agree with their ideology, but those who posed a political threat to communist power. Indeed, the NLF certainly got screwed in the deal and the joining that was supposed to peacefully and democratically take place between the north and the south never occurred by means other than violence and repression. Of course, no one elected ol Uncle Ho to represent Vietnamese people. His guns gave him the office he received.
 
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MaryL

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Vietnam welcomes tourists, all I can say. Uncle ho is dead, so is American imperialism.
 
I

Indofred

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Minh might have won the hearts and minds of the liberal elite and the liberal media but we kicked his freaking ass on the battlefield. Ho Chi Minh was defeated after Tet but chairman Walter Cronkite convinced the democrat fool in the White House to throw in the towel. Nixon was forced by the democrat majority to abandon the Vietnamese to face murder and imprisonment at the hands of the communist hoard.
To my disgrace, I had to read up on the guy to find out more of his history.
His war was against French colonial rule so I see little there to disagree with.

He seriously knackered the French and, when it came to America's turn, they had to resort to mass murder of civilians in a bootless attempt to remove him.
However, I must condemn his mass imprisonment and/or murder of his political opposition.
That was clearly wrong.

It does amuse me how many Americans think they won in Vietnam and make silly excuses for getting their arses kicked by people they consider inferior.
 
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Indofred

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Vietnam welcomes tourists, all I can say. Uncle ho is dead, so is American imperialism.
That's an oddity of history.
Every war since 1945 that America has won, has left a very dangerous place for Americans to visit.
America got totally arse shagged in Vietnam but American tourists can go there and enjoy the place in safety.
 

Moonglow

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What the OP really is thinking


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSZosqXOyc0]Family Guy - Vietnam War Memorial - YouTube[/ame]
 

Moonglow

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Vietnam welcomes tourists, all I can say. Uncle ho is dead, so is American imperialism.
That's an oddity of history.
Every war since 1945 that America has won, has left a very dangerous place for Americans to visit.
America got totally arse shagged in Vietnam but American tourists can go there and enjoy the place in safety.
They like our money.
 
I

Indofred

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Vietnam welcomes tourists, all I can say. Uncle ho is dead, so is American imperialism.
That's an oddity of history.
Every war since 1945 that America has won, has left a very dangerous place for Americans to visit.
America got totally arse shagged in Vietnam but American tourists can go there and enjoy the place in safety.
They like our money.
Of course they do but try spemding it in a country America won in....Iraq comes to mind.
 

Publius1787

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That's an oddity of history.
Every war since 1945 that America has won, has left a very dangerous place for Americans to visit.
America got totally arse shagged in Vietnam but American tourists can go there and enjoy the place in safety.
They like our money.
Of course they do but try spemding it in a country America won in....Iraq comes to mind.
Ahh yes, comparing the leftist radicalism of the Vietnamese communists to the Muslim conservatism of the average Iraqi. Wait, did I just spell out the difference in culture that makes one tolerant to western ideals and the other objectionable? In either case, the Brits are spending quite a bit of money in Iraq. We simply voted down allowing US based firms to drill there. As for Vietnam, they make cheap clothing, their government officials are easily bribable, and they have a vibrant communist economic model that makes cheap labor plentiful and forces women into prostitution so as to make ends meet. Add all this together with a beautiful countryside and your bound to stoke some western tourism to the benefit of the corrupt local political elites. Though both countries are dangerous for foreign travel ,Iraq is by far more dangerous as the likelihood of you getting snatched up by the local Muslim extremist element is high. There are no such elements to any great extent in Vietnam except your normal trafficking thugs and criminals.

Average monthly income in Vietnam = 3.2 million VND per month, or, $150 per month. In war torn Iraq the average monthly salary comes to about $416 and is expected to sharply rise as the country gets back on its feet. That just shows you what communism can do to a country.
 
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Publius1787

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I just has re-read a few discussions about Ho Chi Minh and I am very upset (and angry too) :mad:. You Americans keep babbling about he is a dictator, commie, USA's enemy, blah blah blah.

How was he a dictator? He was selected as the president in a nationwide election. Even after he become the president, he didn't abuse his position for his personal interests. While being the president, he lived in a small wooden house , unlike the big wealthy palace of US president:eusa_whistle:.

And there is nothing wrong with communism at that time. While the world was ruled by Western capitalist-greedy colonists, the communism is light of hope for the oppressed poor people :confused:.

And USA's enemy? You Americans betrayed us after 1945, you helped the Frenchs, you fighted against us in the Battle of Dien Bien Phu, you sponsored a puppet government in South, you teared the Geneva Treaty up, you sent your troops to our land to kill our people, you used Orange Agent on our country. Who is who enemy here? :doubt:
I think you should read this Mr. Le [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Vietcong-Memoir-Account-Vietnam-Aftermath/dp/0394743091]A Vietcong Memoir: An Inside Account of the Vietnam War and Its Aftermath: Troung Nhu Tang: 9780394743097: Amazon.com: Books[/ame] I suppose if you would quit playing videogames and concentrate on historical studies that aren't regulated by the Communist Party in Vietnam you will find that what you have been taught is both a far reach from reality and not as black and white as you suppose things to be. Perhaps if they had not killed/jailed/re-educated all of the intellectuals who were against the communist movement you would have more academic freedom, however, Vietnam has been proven to be worse off under communism than it ever has under colonial rule. The average citizen in Vietnam makes less than those of war torn Iraq for crying out loud!

Now, America could have cared less about Vietnam. Vietnam had more to do with the themes of the Cold War than it did anything else. And what did Vietnam do immediately upon "independence?" They tucked themselves under the Soviet sphere of influence. In the end the question was not whether the US was to meddle in Vietnam, it was a question of whether the Soviets or the US would meddle in Vietnam. The communists prevailed, and thus, you kicked off the chains of the West for the chains of the USSR and a Leninist/Stalinist form of revolutionary communism. How's that working out for ya? Indeed, if the US has succeeded in South Vietnam it would be akin to todays North and South Korea. Prosperity on one side, and poverty and totalitarianism on the other.

This is what communism gave the Vietnamese people >>
Internet censorship in Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Communism in Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Up to 155,000 refugees fleeing the final NVA Spring Offensive were killed or abducted on the road to Tuy Hoa in 1975.[9] Sources have estimated that 165,000 South Vietnamese died in the re-education camps out of 1-2.5 million sent,[10][11] while somewhere between 50,000 and 250,000 were executed.[10][12][13][14] Rummel estimates that slave labor in the "New Economic Zones" caused 50,000 deaths (out of a total 1 million deported).[10][12] The number of Vietnamese boat people who died is estimated between 200,000 and 400,000, out of the 2.5 million that fled.[15] There were also tens of thousands of suicides after the North Vietnamese take-over.[16] Including Vietnam's foreign democide, Rummel estimates that a minimum of 400,000 and a maximum of slightly less than 2.5 million people died of political violence from 1975-87 at the hands of Hanoi.[12] In 1988, Vietnam suffered a famine that afflicted millions.[17]
The SRVN government implemented a Stalinist dictatorship of the proletariat in the South as they did in the North. The network of security apparatus (Công An) controlled every aspect of people's life. Censorship was strict and ultra-conservative, with most pre-1975 works in the fields of music, art, and literature being banned. All religions had to be re-organized into state-controlled churches. Any negative comments toward the Party, the government, Uncle Ho, or anything related to Communism might earn the person the tag of Phản Động (Reactionary), with consequences ranging from being harassed by police, expelled from school or workplace, to being sent to prison. Nevertheless, the Communist authority failed to suppress the Black Market, where food, consumer goods, and banned literature could be bought at high prices. The security apparatus also failed to stop a nationwide clandestine network of people trying to escape the country. In many cases, the security officers of some whole districts were bribed and even got involved in organizing the escape schemes.
The Socialist Republic of Vietnam is a single-party state. A new state constitution was approved in April 1992, replacing the 1975 version. The central role of the Communist Party was reasserted in all organs of government, politics and society. Only political organizations affiliated with or endorsed by the Communist Party are permitted to contest elections.
 
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jon_berzerk

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That's an oddity of history.
Every war since 1945 that America has won, has left a very dangerous place for Americans to visit.
America got totally arse shagged in Vietnam but American tourists can go there and enjoy the place in safety.
They like our money.
Of course they do but try spemding it in a country America won in....Iraq comes to mind.
Another Obama success story…
When Bush left office the War in Iraq was won.
Today the flag of Al-Qaeda flies over Fallujah.
It only took five years for Obama to lose all US gains in Iraq.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veVtrBWwX58]Iraqi forces battle al Qaeda militants in two cities - YouTube[/ame]
 
I

Indofred

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When Bush left office the War in Iraq was won.
Thanks for the laugh.



Now, when did Obama take office?
Bush was fucking up large style. He took America into an illegal war, killed thousands of Americas but idiots still call him a hero.
Dude, he bum fucked you.
 

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