[Bring it on, you Americans] About Ho Chi Minh

[Indofred]

America got totally arse shagged in Vietnam

That's ridiculously untrue, like everything you say.

Perhaps you can link to photos of the American president of the time next to a "mission accomplished" banner.
Perhaps some film of the victory parades.

 

[Sallow]

Minh might have won the hearts and minds of the liberal elite and the liberal media but we kicked his freaking ass on the battlefield. Ho Chi Minh was defeated after Tet but chairman Walter Cronkite convinced the democrat fool in the White House to throw in the towel. Nixon was forced by the democrat majority to abandon the Vietnamese to face murder and imprisonment at the hands of the communist hoard.

Basically you've just ignored a good chunk of History.

Ho Chi Minh and his rebels assisted the Allied effort during WWII to oust the Japanese from Vietnam, with the promise of independence once the war was over.

That promise was broken and even then Minh went back to the table to get general elections promised. When Eisenhower saw that Minh would win in a general election he backtracked on them.

What happened in Vietnam represents a betrayal on the part of this country to folks that helped us out during the war.

 

[Unkotare]

America got totally arse shagged in Vietnam

That's ridiculously untrue, like everything you say.

Perhaps you can link to photos of the American president of the time next to a "mission accomplished" banner.
Perhaps some film of the victory parades.

I see your inferiority complex isn't getting any better. You know you're not going to make that flaccid little worm of yours grow any bigger this way, champ.

 

[Indofred]

Had you brought up this topic 45 years ago when I was there, I would gladly have answered you at that time.
Now, after all these years, I don't see that it makes much sense to debate what were our nation's foreign policies of that era.

Incorrect - it does matter.
If you bury, misinform or simply rewrite history to suit your political/nationalist agenda, you'll make the same mistakes again and again.

 

[Indofred]

That's ridiculously untrue, like everything you say.

Perhaps you can link to photos of the American president of the time next to a "mission accomplished" banner.
Perhaps some film of the victory parades.

I see your inferiority complex isn't getting any better. You know you're not going to make that flaccid little worm of yours grow any bigger this way, champ.

When you can't develop and argument, link to facts or even offer intelligent opinion, stick to silly insults.
That'll prove you're right.

 

[westwall]

Please, keep it civil....

 

[Papawx3]

I can tell you a couple of good things that happened during my two tours in Vietnam.
First, I was part of a group of troops that destroyed 15 miles of the Ho Chi Minh trail that was being used to transport troops and materials from North Vietnam to the Viet Cong of South Vietnam. That was important, and what's more it was fun!!!
Second, I learned to stay away from the women there because of the venereal diseases they carried. That was also fun, but in doing so I learned a very important lesson..
On the bad side, I lost some of my friends and neighbors during those years. That was not good, nor fun.. But war is hell. People die and things get broken. That is the nature of war.

 

[Indofred]

I can tell you a couple of good things that happened during my two tours in Vietnam.
First, I was part of a group of troops that destroyed 15 miles of the Ho Chi Minh trail that was being used to transport troops and materials from North Vietnam to the Viet Cong of South Vietnam. That was important, and what's more it was fun!!!
Second, I learned to stay away from the women there because of the venereal diseases they carried. That was also fun, but in doing so I learned a very important lesson..
On the bad side, I lost some of my friends and neighbors during those years. That was not good, nor fun.. But war is hell. People die and things get broken. That is the nature of war.

Let me see, Vietnam's communist party had just invaded California, prompting a justified American invasion of their country.
You describe killing hundreds of people as "fun".
One has to ask, how did the women get the diseases; from American troops?

 

[Indofred]

Please, keep it civil....

You have no hope.

Some posters do no research, ignore facts and history but post insults designed to cause retaliation, destroying the thread.

We see so many discussions destroyed by a string of insults with no substance.
The guilty posters do this so their flimsy arguments aren't exposed as lies.

 

[elektra]

Immigration numbers tell a better story, over 1,000,000 immigrants from Vietnam to the USA

Immigration is not just numbers, its also the story of how people risked there life to flee Vietnam, stories of people who actually died, were shot, murdered, by the Communist Leaders of Vietnam.

So why would a Vietnamese man risk his life to come the USA, does he not know the truth, they live under Communist rule yet would rather die trying to flee.

The fact is we were the good guys, before, during, and after the Vietnam war. Millions of immigrants attest to that fact.

If deliberately shooting unarmed civilians, carpet bombing and using napalm on children is being the good guy, I'd hate to meet the evil bastards.

Sounds like you are a fan of John Kerry, the Democrat who ran for President, John Kerry did all that.

You would hate to meet the evil bastards, for they did horrific things, perverted things, to their own people.

 

[longly]

I can tell you a couple of good things that happened during my two tours in Vietnam.
First, I was part of a group of troops that destroyed 15 miles of the Ho Chi Minh trail that was being used to transport troops and materials from North Vietnam to the Viet Cong of South Vietnam. That was important, and what's more it was fun!!!
Second, I learned to stay away from the women there because of the venereal diseases they carried. That was also fun, but in doing so I learned a very important lesson..
On the bad side, I lost some of my friends and neighbors during those years. That was not good, nor fun.. But war is hell. People die and things get broken. That is the nature of war.

Let me see, Vietnam's communist party had just invaded California, prompting a justified American invasion of their country.
You describe killing hundreds of people as "fun".
One has to ask, how did the women get the diseases; from American troops?

By your logic we should have never fought the Germans; Hitler didn’t invade California either. Vietnam was a battlefield in the Cold War. They chose their side and demonstrated the appropriate level of sub human behavior to qualify as good Communist. They tortured our POWs for no good reason then called our people liars when we complained. Jane Fonda said the POWs were war criminals and by implication deserved it.

 

[eagle7_31]

I just has re-read a few discussions about Ho Chi Minh and I am very upset (and angry too) . You Americans keep babbling about he is a dictator, commie, USA's enemy, blah blah blah.

How was he a dictator? He was selected as the president in a nationwide election. Even after he become the president, he didn't abuse his position for his personal interests. While being the president, he lived in a small wooden house , unlike the big wealthy palace of US president.

And there is nothing wrong with communism at that time. While the world was ruled by Western capitalist-greedy colonists, the communism is light of hope for the oppressed poor people .

And USA's enemy? You Americans betrayed us after 1945, you helped the Frenchs, you fighted against us in the Battle of Dien Bien Phu, you sponsored a puppet government in South, you teared the Geneva Treaty up, you sent your troops to our land to kill our people, you used Orange Agent on our country. Who is who enemy here?

there are millions of dead in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos. China, the old USSR, north Korea would argue otherwise. And I am being polite.

 

[Indofred]

I can tell you a couple of good things that happened during my two tours in Vietnam.
First, I was part of a group of troops that destroyed 15 miles of the Ho Chi Minh trail that was being used to transport troops and materials from North Vietnam to the Viet Cong of South Vietnam. That was important, and what's more it was fun!!!
Second, I learned to stay away from the women there because of the venereal diseases they carried. That was also fun, but in doing so I learned a very important lesson..
On the bad side, I lost some of my friends and neighbors during those years. That was not good, nor fun.. But war is hell. People die and things get broken. That is the nature of war.

Let me see, Vietnam's communist party had just invaded California, prompting a justified American invasion of their country.
You describe killing hundreds of people as "fun".
One has to ask, how did the women get the diseases; from American troops?

By your logic we should have never fought the Germans; Hitler didn’t invade California either. Vietnam was a battlefield in the Cold War. They chose their side and demonstrated the appropriate level of sub human behavior to qualify as good Communist. They tortured our POWs for no good reason then called our people liars when we complained. Jane Fonda said the POWs were war criminals and by implication deserved it.

Germany declared war on America so that silly argument is gone.
You tortured and murdered as well, and lied about it.

 

[whitehall]

Minh might have won the hearts and minds of the liberal elite and the liberal media but we kicked his freaking ass on the battlefield. Ho Chi Minh was defeated after Tet but chairman Walter Cronkite convinced the democrat fool in the White House to throw in the towel. Nixon was forced by the democrat majority to abandon the Vietnamese to face murder and imprisonment at the hands of the communist hoard.

To my disgrace, I had to read up on the guy to find out more of his history.
His war was against French colonial rule so I see little there to disagree with.

He seriously knackered the French and, when it came to America's turn, they had to resort to mass murder of civilians in a bootless attempt to remove him.
However, I must condemn his mass imprisonment and/or murder of his political opposition.
That was clearly wrong.

It does amuse me how many Americans think they won in Vietnam and make silly excuses for getting their arses kicked by people they consider inferior.

Minh might have kicked some serious French ass but when he invaded the peaceful South Vietnam the US kicked his ass all the way back to Hanoi and Giap was defeated in every battle. Somehow LBJ and the democrats grasped defeat from the jaws of victory after the phony SOB Walter Cronkite flew to Vietnam after the US victory of Tet, donned a helmet and pretended to be under fire and pronounced the victory to be a stalemate. LBJ lost his nerve and threw in the towel in a tearful press conference and everybody blamed it on Nixon. A win-win for democrats and Giap who had lost all of his troops.

 

[Indofred]

Minh might have won the hearts and minds of the liberal elite and the liberal media but we kicked his freaking ass on the battlefield. Ho Chi Minh was defeated after Tet but chairman Walter Cronkite convinced the democrat fool in the White House to throw in the towel. Nixon was forced by the democrat majority to abandon the Vietnamese to face murder and imprisonment at the hands of the communist hoard.

To my disgrace, I had to read up on the guy to find out more of his history.
His war was against French colonial rule so I see little there to disagree with.

He seriously knackered the French and, when it came to America's turn, they had to resort to mass murder of civilians in a bootless attempt to remove him.
However, I must condemn his mass imprisonment and/or murder of his political opposition.
That was clearly wrong.

It does amuse me how many Americans think they won in Vietnam and make silly excuses for getting their arses kicked by people they consider inferior.

Minh might have kicked some serious French ass but when he invaded the peaceful South Vietnam the US kicked his ass all the way back to Hanoi and Giap was defeated in every battle. Somehow LBJ and the democrats grasped defeat from the jaws of victory after the phony SOB Walter Cronkite flew to Vietnam after the US victory of Tet, donned a helmet and pretended to be under fire and pronounced the victory to be a stalemate. LBJ lost his nerve and threw in the towel in a tearful press conference and everybody blamed it on Nixon. A win-win for democrats and Giap who had lost all of his troops.

America, a country half a world away from Vietnam, sent in troops who went in wearing uniform but returned wearing a body bag.
America gained absolutely nothing from its "victory" in Vietnam and lost a lot.
Please explain how that makes America the winner.
There was no way you were ever going to win and, this is where your government is really stupid, you did pretty much exactly the same in Iraq and Afghanistan.
You started wars you can never win, just get out of after losing a load of men and money.

 

[longly]

Let me see, Vietnam's communist party had just invaded California, prompting a justified American invasion of their country.
You describe killing hundreds of people as "fun".
One has to ask, how did the women get the diseases; from American troops?

By your logic we should have never fought the Germans; Hitler didn’t invade California either. Vietnam was a battlefield in the Cold War. They chose their side and demonstrated the appropriate level of sub human behavior to qualify as good Communist. They tortured our POWs for no good reason then called our people liars when we complained. Jane Fonda said the POWs were war criminals and by implication deserved it.

Germany declared war on America so that silly argument is gone.
You tortured and murdered as well, and lied about it.

Making war against Nazi Germany was the right thing to do; Hitler’s successor would gotten around to us sooner or later and by that time they would have been a lot stronger, but the fact remains if we had ignored him he would never fought us. The Commies were just as murderous as the Nazis and in fact they killed many more people than the Nazis.

 

[Indofred]

By your logic we should have never fought the Germans; Hitler didn’t invade California either. Vietnam was a battlefield in the Cold War. They chose their side and demonstrated the appropriate level of sub human behavior to qualify as good Communist. They tortured our POWs for no good reason then called our people liars when we complained. Jane Fonda said the POWs were war criminals and by implication deserved it.

Germany declared war on America so that silly argument is gone.
You tortured and murdered as well, and lied about it.

Making war against Nazi Germany was the right thing to do; Hitler’s successor would gotten around to us sooner or later and by that time they would have been a lot stronger, but the fact remains if we had ignored him he would never fought us. The Commies were just as murderous as the Nazis and in fact they killed many more people than the Nazis.

Given that Nazi Germany declared war on America, I agree.
Quite how does that leave you in a position to condemn Vietnam for torture and murder when America did exactly the same things?

 

[Unkotare]

To my disgrace, I had to read up on the guy to find out more of his history.
His war was against French colonial rule so I see little there to disagree with.

He seriously knackered the French and, when it came to America's turn, they had to resort to mass murder of civilians in a bootless attempt to remove him.
However, I must condemn his mass imprisonment and/or murder of his political opposition.
That was clearly wrong.

It does amuse me how many Americans think they won in Vietnam and make silly excuses for getting their arses kicked by people they consider inferior.

Minh might have kicked some serious French ass but when he invaded the peaceful South Vietnam the US kicked his ass all the way back to Hanoi and Giap was defeated in every battle. Somehow LBJ and the democrats grasped defeat from the jaws of victory after the phony SOB Walter Cronkite flew to Vietnam after the US victory of Tet, donned a helmet and pretended to be under fire and pronounced the victory to be a stalemate. LBJ lost his nerve and threw in the towel in a tearful press conference and everybody blamed it on Nixon. A win-win for democrats and Giap who had lost all of his troops.

America, a country half a world away from Vietnam, sent in troops who went in wearing uniform but returned wearing a body bag.
America gained absolutely nothing from its "victory" in Vietnam and lost a lot.
Please explain how that makes America the winner.
There was no way you were ever going to win and, this is where your government is really stupid, you did pretty much exactly the same in Iraq and Afghanistan.
You started wars you can never win, just get out of after losing a load of men and money.

Guess what that post DIDN'T do, dickbreath? It didn't make your flaccid little microdick one micrometer larger, you insignificant, bitter fucking nobody.

 

[Indofred]

Minh might have kicked some serious French ass but when he invaded the peaceful South Vietnam the US kicked his ass all the way back to Hanoi and Giap was defeated in every battle. Somehow LBJ and the democrats grasped defeat from the jaws of victory after the phony SOB Walter Cronkite flew to Vietnam after the US victory of Tet, donned a helmet and pretended to be under fire and pronounced the victory to be a stalemate. LBJ lost his nerve and threw in the towel in a tearful press conference and everybody blamed it on Nixon. A win-win for democrats and Giap who had lost all of his troops.

America, a country half a world away from Vietnam, sent in troops who went in wearing uniform but returned wearing a body bag.
America gained absolutely nothing from its "victory" in Vietnam and lost a lot.
Please explain how that makes America the winner.
There was no way you were ever going to win and, this is where your government is really stupid, you did pretty much exactly the same in Iraq and Afghanistan.
You started wars you can never win, just get out of after losing a load of men and money.

Guess what that post DIDN'T do, dickbreath? It didn't make your flaccid little microdick one micrometer larger, you insignificant, bitter fucking nobody.

I see it this way - I didn't have to resort to insults to make my point; I used a valid argument.
Quite how do you think such insults help your position in any way and/or convince anyone your position is valid?
I tend to think it invalidates your stance on the issue as you seem less than able to forward reasons for your idea.

 

[Unkotare]

America, a country half a world away from Vietnam, sent in troops who went in wearing uniform but returned wearing a body bag.
America gained absolutely nothing from its "victory" in Vietnam and lost a lot.
Please explain how that makes America the winner.
There was no way you were ever going to win and, this is where your government is really stupid, you did pretty much exactly the same in Iraq and Afghanistan.
You started wars you can never win, just get out of after losing a load of men and money.

Guess what that post DIDN'T do, dickbreath? It didn't make your flaccid little microdick one micrometer larger, you insignificant, bitter fucking nobody.

I see it this way - .

You see everything one way and one way only - through the warped prism of your bitter, impotent anti-Americanism. That's all you have ever done here on any topic. You're a broken, useless record.