[Bring it on, you Americans] About Ho Chi Minh

[Where_r_my_Keys]

I just has re-read a few discussions about Ho Chi Minh and I am very upset (and angry too) . You Americans keep babbling about he is a dictator, commie, USA's enemy, blah blah blah.

How was he a dictator? He was selected as the president in a nationwide election. Even after he become the president, he didn't abuse his position for his personal interests. While being the president, he lived in a small wooden house , unlike the big wealthy palace of US president.

And there is nothing wrong with communism at that time. While the world was ruled by Western capitalist-greedy colonists, the communism is light of hope for the oppressed poor people .

And USA's enemy? You Americans betrayed us after 1945, you helped the Frenchs, you fighted against us in the Battle of Dien Bien Phu, you sponsored a puppet government in South, you teared the Geneva Treaty up, you sent your troops to our land to kill our people, you used Orange Agent on our country. Who is who enemy here?

Communism is raw, unadulterated evil.

There is nothing right about communism.

There is no right to advocate for Communism.

The advocacy for communism, equates to an advocacy for theft, repression and murder.

Given that rights are only possible where those claiming a right advance the same right to everyone else and that in the process of exercising that right, one does not infringe upon the means of others to exercise their own rights.

In truth, second only to disease, the Ideological Left and specifically the adherents of communism, murdered in excess of 150 million innocent people in the 20th century ALONE.

These murders were in PEACE TIME and, most definitely do not include the tens of millions more that were killed in the two world wars which were the result of socialism.

 

[Indofred]

There is nothing right about communism.

There is no right to advocate for Communism.

I dislike communism as it's a load of old bollocks that can never work however, the second line I chose to quote removes the constitutional right to freedom of speech.

The sort of things communists do; are you a communist or, as I believe is the case, the daft far right are just as stupid as the daft far left and their policies meet in the middle anyway.
Take the attributes of the far left and right, them compare.
They both do pretty much the same evil, just call it a different name and have different enemies of the state.

Pathetic.

 

[whitehall]

To my disgrace, I had to read up on the guy to find out more of his history.
His war was against French colonial rule so I see little there to disagree with.

He seriously knackered the French and, when it came to America's turn, they had to resort to mass murder of civilians in a bootless attempt to remove him.
However, I must condemn his mass imprisonment and/or murder of his political opposition.
That was clearly wrong.

It does amuse me how many Americans think they won in Vietnam and make silly excuses for getting their arses kicked by people they consider inferior.

Minh might have kicked some serious French ass but when he invaded the peaceful South Vietnam the US kicked his ass all the way back to Hanoi and Giap was defeated in every battle. Somehow LBJ and the democrats grasped defeat from the jaws of victory after the phony SOB Walter Cronkite flew to Vietnam after the US victory of Tet, donned a helmet and pretended to be under fire and pronounced the victory to be a stalemate. LBJ lost his nerve and threw in the towel in a tearful press conference and everybody blamed it on Nixon. A win-win for democrats and Giap who had lost all of his troops.

America, a country half a world away from Vietnam, sent in troops who went in wearing uniform but returned wearing a body bag.
America gained absolutely nothing from its "victory" in Vietnam and lost a lot.
Please explain how that makes America the winner.
There was no way you were ever going to win and, this is where your government is really stupid, you did pretty much exactly the same in Iraq and Afghanistan.
You started wars you can never win, just get out of after losing a load of men and money.

It was just as legitimate for the US to try to save the South Vietnamese from the V.C. barbarians as it was for US Troops to save the surrender monkeys in France during WW1 and rescue the South Koreans from the NK hoard. The problem is that we did it wrong because LBJ set the rules so that the US could win every battle and still lose the war. Minh is no hero and Giap was probably one of the worst generals in modern history. Today's radical left sees history through hate-America glasses so the enemy becomes the hero despite evidence to the contrary.

 

[gipper]

Minh might have kicked some serious French ass but when he invaded the peaceful South Vietnam the US kicked his ass all the way back to Hanoi and Giap was defeated in every battle. Somehow LBJ and the democrats grasped defeat from the jaws of victory after the phony SOB Walter Cronkite flew to Vietnam after the US victory of Tet, donned a helmet and pretended to be under fire and pronounced the victory to be a stalemate. LBJ lost his nerve and threw in the towel in a tearful press conference and everybody blamed it on Nixon. A win-win for democrats and Giap who had lost all of his troops.

America, a country half a world away from Vietnam, sent in troops who went in wearing uniform but returned wearing a body bag.
America gained absolutely nothing from its "victory" in Vietnam and lost a lot.
Please explain how that makes America the winner.
There was no way you were ever going to win and, this is where your government is really stupid, you did pretty much exactly the same in Iraq and Afghanistan.
You started wars you can never win, just get out of after losing a load of men and money.

It was just as legitimate for the US to try to save the South Vietnamese from the V.C. barbarians as it was for US Troops to save the surrender monkeys in France during WW1 and rescue the South Koreans from the NK hoard. The problem is that we did it wrong because LBJ set the rules so that the US could win every battle and still lose the war. Minh is no hero and Giap was probably one of the worst generals in modern history. Today's radical left sees history through hate-America glasses so the enemy becomes the hero despite evidence to the contrary.

I can't agree and you will find no one who loves the true meaning of America, then me.

Why must American boys die, in some far away place, to stop tyranny? Tyranny has existed since the beginning of time and will continue to. We can't prevent it and trying to, only leads to bigger government leading to tyranny here at home...as is clearly evident by our government's actions of late.

And besides, what have we gained from all this war the past 100 hundred years, other than growing government, enriching the power elite, and mourning our dead?

War is health of the state....and statists and elitists love war because they know it.

 

[Indofred]

Minh might have kicked some serious French ass but when he invaded the peaceful South Vietnam the US kicked his ass all the way back to Hanoi and Giap was defeated in every battle. Somehow LBJ and the democrats grasped defeat from the jaws of victory after the phony SOB Walter Cronkite flew to Vietnam after the US victory of Tet, donned a helmet and pretended to be under fire and pronounced the victory to be a stalemate. LBJ lost his nerve and threw in the towel in a tearful press conference and everybody blamed it on Nixon. A win-win for democrats and Giap who had lost all of his troops.

America, a country half a world away from Vietnam, sent in troops who went in wearing uniform but returned wearing a body bag.
America gained absolutely nothing from its "victory" in Vietnam and lost a lot.
Please explain how that makes America the winner.
There was no way you were ever going to win and, this is where your government is really stupid, you did pretty much exactly the same in Iraq and Afghanistan.
You started wars you can never win, just get out of after losing a load of men and money.

It was just as legitimate for the US to try to save the South Vietnamese from the V.C. barbarians as it was for US Troops to save the surrender monkeys in France during WW1 and rescue the South Koreans from the NK hoard. The problem is that we did it wrong because LBJ set the rules so that the US could win every battle and still lose the war. Minh is no hero and Giap was probably one of the worst generals in modern history. Today's radical left sees history through hate-America glasses so the enemy becomes the hero despite evidence to the contrary.

Firstly, I would mention WWI, you were a bit late for that one.
The American backed dictator in South Korea threatened to wipe out the North so they got their attack in first.
I'm hardly radical left, or even slightly left, but it's easy to see this much, America could never win, just lose a load more men before leaving.
Very much like the illegal war in Iraq. Mission was accomplished years ago but you still lost.
Winning involves gain of some sort and there was none for America in most of the wars you started since 1945.
Except of course, for the American arms industry. Bush and a load of others made a fortune from the Iraq war as arms dealers, especially American arms dealers, did from Vietnam.
What's a few tens of thousands of dead Americans, terrorism brought to America and the massive cost to the American taxpayer when the Arms industry does so well?
You should be proud your sons, brothers and fathers died for their profits.

 

[Unkotare]

Bush and a load of others made a fortune from the Iraq war

That's a lie from the impotent little anti-American nobody.

 

[Unkotare]

Very much like the illegal war in Iraq. Mission was accomplished years ago but you still lost.

Another lie from Mr. Nobody.

 

[Indofred]

Bush and a load of others made a fortune from the Iraq war

That's a lie from the impotent little anti-American nobody.

Congress Must Cut Off Bush Family War Profits | Global Research

How the Bush Family Makes a Killing from George's Presidency :: HEATHER WOKUSCH ::

FOCUS | Cheney's Halliburton Made $39.5 Billion on Iraq War

Is it anti American to point out, your government screwed you and lost thousands of your fathers, sons and brothers to make a fat profit?

 

[Indofred]

Very much like the illegal war in Iraq. Mission was accomplished years ago but you still lost.

Another lie from Mr. Nobody.

To win requires gain.
The Bush family and others made a small fortune from weapons and oil, perhaps you can explain what gain the rest of America managed to get.
Sorry, I forgot the body bag manufacturers - they did rather well.

https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=1c20576384d48b38e8445d3c189b9e81&tab=core&_cview=0

 

[Unkotare]

Take that stupid conspiracy nonsense over to the Conspiracy Forum where idiots like you belong. President Bush earned not one cent from the war, Vice President Cheney had his interests in Haliburton sequestered when he took office. The interest accumulated on his shares were donated to charities, including some serving inner city youths. Even American oil companies enjoyed no advantage in negotiating contracts with Iraq following the war to resume their production.

saddam's regime was crushed in short order, the scumbag was tried and executed by his countrymen, and the newly freed Iraqi people chose their new government through democratic elections.

Despite the irresponsible incompetence of obama imperiling all that was gained there, the objectives of that conflict were met, you bitter, ignorant, dishonest little nobody.

 

[Indofred]

Take that stupid conspiracy nonsense over to the Conspiracy Forum where idiots like you belong. President Bush earned not one cent from the war, Vice President Cheney had his interests in Haliburton sequestered when he took office. The interest accumulated on his shares were donated to charities, including some serving inner city youths. Even American oil companies enjoyed no advantage in negotiating contracts with Iraq following the war to resume their production.

saddam's regime was crushed in short order, the scumbag was tried and executed by his countrymen, and the newly freed Iraqi people chose their new government through democratic elections.

Despite the irresponsible incompetence of obama imperiling all that was gained there, the objectives of that conflict were met, you bitter, ignorant, dishonest little nobody.

I claim, with links, Bush and others screwed you fr profit.
You claim, with nothing to back it up, they did not.

You could try backing up your claim.

As for Iraq, the illegal invasion, looking for non existent WMD, brought massive terrorism to Iraq and you buggered off and left them to suffer from your stupidity.

It should be a national shame but you fools claim you won something.
In fact, you made a far bigger mess, killed a load of Iraqis and lost a load of your own people to do it.
The American tax payers paid for the stupidity.

 

[Unkotare]

Take that stupid conspiracy nonsense over to the Conspiracy Forum where idiots like you belong. President Bush earned not one cent from the war, Vice President Cheney had his interests in Haliburton sequestered when he took office. The interest accumulated on his shares were donated to charities, including some serving inner city youths. Even American oil companies enjoyed no advantage in negotiating contracts with Iraq following the war to resume their production.

saddam's regime was crushed in short order, the scumbag was tried and executed by his countrymen, and the newly freed Iraqi people chose their new government through democratic elections.

Despite the irresponsible incompetence of obama imperiling all that was gained there, the objectives of that conflict were met, you bitter, ignorant, dishonest little nobody.

I claim, with links, Bush and others screwed you fr profit.

You can link to lies and other hysterical, anti-American idiots like yourself, limpy, but the truth is as I've explained it to you.

 

[Magicknight94]

Immigration numbers tell a better story, over 1,000,000 immigrants from Vietnam to the USA

Immigration is not just numbers, its also the story of how people risked there life to flee Vietnam, stories of people who actually died, were shot, murdered, by the Communist Leaders of Vietnam.

So why would a Vietnamese man risk his life to come the USA, does he not know the truth, they live under Communist rule yet would rather die trying to flee.

The fact is we were the good guys, before, during, and after the Vietnam war. Millions of immigrants attest to that fact.

Is it this obvious? Money lovers. They ate American money in Vietnam War, and when Americans left them, they cannot survive on their own, so they had to run after Americans.

 

[Magicknight94]

Minh might have kicked some serious French ass but when he invaded the peaceful South Vietnam the US kicked his ass all the way back to Hanoi and Giap was defeated in every battle. Somehow LBJ and the democrats grasped defeat from the jaws of victory after the phony SOB Walter Cronkite flew to Vietnam after the US victory of Tet, donned a helmet and pretended to be under fire and pronounced the victory to be a stalemate. LBJ lost his nerve and threw in the towel in a tearful press conference and everybody blamed it on Nixon. A win-win for democrats and Giap who had lost all of his troops.

America, a country half a world away from Vietnam, sent in troops who went in wearing uniform but returned wearing a body bag.
America gained absolutely nothing from its "victory" in Vietnam and lost a lot.
Please explain how that makes America the winner.
There was no way you were ever going to win and, this is where your government is really stupid, you did pretty much exactly the same in Iraq and Afghanistan.
You started wars you can never win, just get out of after losing a load of men and money.

It was just as legitimate for the US to try to save the South Vietnamese from the V.C. barbarians as it was for US Troops to save the surrender monkeys in France during WW1 and rescue the South Koreans from the NK hoard. The problem is that we did it wrong because LBJ set the rules so that the US could win every battle and still lose the war. Minh is no hero and Giap was probably one of the worst generals in modern history. Today's radical left sees history through hate-America glasses so the enemy becomes the hero despite evidence to the contrary.

Why didn't heroic Americans save us from Frenchs? Why did they help Frenchs insteads? Why? Money. Resource. Interests.

 

[Magicknight94]

Minh might have won the hearts and minds of the liberal elite and the liberal media but we kicked his freaking ass on the battlefield. Ho Chi Minh was defeated after Tet but chairman Walter Cronkite convinced the democrat fool in the White House to throw in the towel. Nixon was forced by the democrat majority to abandon the Vietnamese to face murder and imprisonment at the hands of the communist hoard.

To my disgrace, I had to read up on the guy to find out more of his history.
His war was against French colonial rule so I see little there to disagree with.

He seriously knackered the French and, when it came to America's turn, they had to resort to mass murder of civilians in a bootless attempt to remove him.
However, I must condemn his mass imprisonment and/or murder of his political opposition.
That was clearly wrong.

It does amuse me how many Americans think they won in Vietnam and make silly excuses for getting their arses kicked by people they consider inferior.

Minh might have kicked some serious French ass but when he invaded the peaceful South Vietnam the US kicked his ass all the way back to Hanoi and Giap was defeated in every battle. Somehow LBJ and the democrats grasped defeat from the jaws of victory after the phony SOB Walter Cronkite flew to Vietnam after the US victory of Tet, donned a helmet and pretended to be under fire and pronounced the victory to be a stalemate. LBJ lost his nerve and threw in the towel in a tearful press conference and everybody blamed it on Nixon. A win-win for democrats and Giap who had lost all of his troops.

the peaceful South Vietnam? When did that "peaceful South Vietnam" appear? There is only 1 Vietnam with Hanoi as its capital for 1000 years, and its freedom was established in 2/9/1945 and having a 4000 years of history. The governemnt in South were merely puppet raised in 1949 by Frenchs, then Americans. They had nothing to do with Vietnam.

 

[longly]

[

the peaceful South Vietnam? When did that "peaceful South Vietnam" appear? There is only 1 Vietnam with Hanoi as its capital for 1000 years, and its freedom was established in 2/9/1945 and having a 4000 years of history. The governemnt in South were merely puppet raised in 1949 by Frenchs, then Americans. They had nothing to do with Vietnam.

You know that you could move to Vietnam and become a subject there.

 

[Magicknight94]

[

the peaceful South Vietnam? When did that "peaceful South Vietnam" appear? There is only 1 Vietnam with Hanoi as its capital for 1000 years, and its freedom was established in 2/9/1945 and having a 4000 years of history. The governemnt in South were merely puppet raised in 1949 by Frenchs, then Americans. They had nothing to do with Vietnam.

You know that you could move to Vietnam and become a subject there.

How could I move to it while I am living in it already?

 

[Indofred]

I'm always open to education.

Could those who insist America won in Vietnam please explain what America gained from the conflict and how those gains offset the massive losses in men and cash.